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End-Game Loot System Changes Ready for Testing Soon!

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  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Great idea, should have been this way from the beginning. Along with the "no NEED if can't use".

    Completely standard features in every successful MMO RPG ever. About time!
  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    People can always sell looting rights anyway.

    Sky is not falling.
  • berinimaberinima Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    walk2k wrote: »
    People can always sell looting rights anyway.

    Sell looting rights? Oh, you gotta be kidding me.
  • silveralucardsilveralucard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 410 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    the option of BoP for need item i think is resonable :P cause if you really need an item then bind it for you, then if you only want an item to be able to sell it then greed with everybody so anyone can have the same oportunity to get it :D that option is good and will benefit all the ones that really need the items and the one that wants to sell it in the AH
    Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
  • callmedeuxcallmedeux Member Posts: 182 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    This is annoying as hell.

    Instead of adding new unique ahrd to obtain loot you just gimp the game for new players, and essentially make the Ah only enchants.

    Glad I am already geared.

    After I get bored with gauntlygrym ill go back to PoE or find another game to keep me busy as this one is headed nowhere fast.
  • zylaxxzylaxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 591 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    sominator wrote: »
    Thanks for all of this great feedback everyone! We'll have an update regarding these proposed changes soon. Cheers!

    Great news and hopefully something good that the overwhelming community of Neverwinter players want.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Character is what a man is in the dark
  • snorgelhopsnorgelhop Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Agreed, leave the loot the way it is (was). Having to PUG dungeons or join some DKP based guild to get end game loot isn't interesting to me. I've put $300 in your pockets, I'd guess other players who are paying would vote to leave things the way it is. Is it the paying people who asked for this change or who?
  • berinimaberinima Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snorgelhop wrote: »
    Is it the paying people who asked for this change or who?

    Um, I suppose... not.
  • shattarstarshattarstar Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    saedeith wrote: »
    You can salvage it for AD.

    Have you even seen those amounts youre given? Freaking Castle Never weapon gives you whooping 10k AD which you still have to convert within 24k daily limit i believe. Greater weapon enchant? Open your wallet cause youll never see one otherwise.

    None of the people i actually played with has been even midly optimistc about this change. Its clear game was designed around trading gear through Auction House in first place. So why the change? Whole issue with people snatching items from other classes got solved with recent changes on Need rolls.

    I got my own gear through running dungeons just because it probably would hold the same value to me if i picked it all out on Auction House but somebody with less time at their disposal might not think same way. Anyhow if somebody buys their gear i couldnt give rats *** really.

    On topic: I cant see reason to run dungeons after ive acquired a piece of gear tied with it. Few thousands of AD is hardly worth it. Dungeons will only get more empty this way. Also what about new players who didnt actually get to gear their character during prosperity time - theyd be so far behind without any means to catch up unless through Zen exchange.
    Right not lets say getting a Greater Weapon Enchant takes some time but after - 24k AD/day vs cost of ~~4million.

    I think the best compromise that has been brought up here more than few times is to implement a system where items that are acquired through Need end up bein BOP instead of BOE. This way everybody gets a fair chance to acquire piece of loot and nobody loses their set pieces to somebody with no means of using them.

    Right now i can make an alt character spend my seals get some gear pieces for him for starters but when those items go BOP what will they be good for. I can either vendor them for gold or just look at hundreas of Seals piling up in my inventory.

    I feel like this decision is little bit rushed and not carefully thought through given the impact it will have on entire economy in game and all systems that revolve around spending AD.

    Why not just add some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> looking weapons/armor to dungeon loot tables that are actually rare to find. Its something id definetly hunt for especially if they had theme of the dungeon itself given that every <insert class> looks basically the same in their armor sets. Aside from changing colour there isnt much choice.
  • onyxghost1onyxghost1 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Have you even seen those amounts youre given? Freaking Castle Never weapon gives you whooping 10k AD which you still have to convert within 24k daily limit i believe. Greater weapon enchant? Open your wallet cause youll never see one otherwise.

    None of the people i actually played with has been even midly optimistc about this change. Its clear game was designed around trading gear through Auction House in first place. So why the change? Whole issue with people snatching items from other classes got solved with recent changes on Need rolls.

    I got my own gear through running dungeons just because it probably would hold the same value to me if i picked it all out on Auction House but somebody with less time at their disposal might not think same way. Anyhow if somebody buys their gear i couldnt give rats *** really.

    On topic: I cant see reason to run dungeons after ive acquired a piece of gear tied with it. Few thousands of AD is hardly worth it. Dungeons will only get more empty this way. Also what about new players who didnt actually get to gear their character during prosperity time - theyd be so far behind without any means to catch up unless through Zen exchange.
    Right not lets say getting a Greater Weapon Enchant takes some time but after - 24k AD/day vs cost of ~~4million.

    I think the best compromise that has been brought up here more than few times is to implement a system where items that are acquired through Need end up bein BOP instead of BOE. This way everybody gets a fair chance to acquire piece of loot and nobody loses their set pieces to somebody with no means of using them.

    Right now i can make an alt character spend my seals get some gear pieces for him for starters but when those items go BOP what will they be good for. I can either vendor them for gold or just look at hundreas of Seals piling up in my inventory.

    I feel like this decision is little bit rushed and not carefully thought through given the impact it will have on entire economy in game and all systems that revolve around spending AD.

    Why not just add some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> looking weapons/armor to dungeon loot tables that are actually rare to find. Its something id definetly hunt for especially if they had theme of the dungeon itself given that every <insert class> looks basically the same in their armor sets. Aside from changing colour there isnt much choice.

    Omg yes! This what exactly what I'm worried about! Yea you can get the gear you want but how is one going to able to pay for all that enchantments and pets to optimize their character? Doesn't make sense to me at all. 24k a day isn't just enough and the salvage npc really doesn't help either.
  • haelrahaelra Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    sominator wrote: »
    Thanks for all of this great feedback everyone! We'll have an update regarding these proposed changes soon. Cheers!

    I look forward to seeing what you've all decided to change after wading through our 650+ heated posts.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    saedeith wrote: »
    How is BoP for need going to change anything? If someone can roll need on an item, they will leaving the greed rollers in the dust anyways. If you are rolling gear for profit, why would you not roll need if you can and get the sure AD's instead of rolling greed and rolling the dice that you even get the gear?

    I dont know what your smoking... They already have this system in place right now, you can sell end game CN gear for roughly 12k AD... Well how much can you sell a CN drop for on the AH? north of 1 million... If your honestly that dumb youd rather take 100% (assuming noone else rolls need) of getting 12k ad versus a 20% of getting 1 million AD... well what can you say except bad players be bad and dont complain because the gear you want costs so much...

    The BoP need vs BoE greed system I think is a great solution to this problem... Heck even if you want, you can keep the fact that off classes cant roll need for anything only greed... so if your the only GWF in a group and your stuff drops, you can roll need if you do need and itll be bound to you, or greed with everyone else for a chance to sell it... either way your not screwed on loot that dropped for you... This will help out everyone...

    That said, IF part of the BoP was to alleviate currency hitting the market, one thing you can do is make all delves gear BoP. So for those who only run CN during Delves or DV during Delves to farm AD, well there really would be no point since the gear would still be BoP... Delves is used primarily to do what, gear out your character and give you SOMETHING for each run. YOu can either 1) use it or 2) salvage it... Either way its not useless... Still gives people incetive to run without putting so much loot into the economy... It also alleviates the feeling of "I can only run during Delves" If you truly are only farming for the boss drops to sell for AD on the AH, you can do that ANYTIME since Delves wouldnt offer incentive...

    Delves is meant (as stated) to cause more players to do the same types of activities at the same time. I think this is genius! But having 1 guaranteed drop per person per run puts out obscene amounts of end game items... Truly rare pieces become no longer rare due to delves, it wont affect your ability to GET gear for your character, but it will affect items hitting the economy and who knows, maybe itll take more than a few weeks before everyone runs around in BiS gear? what a thought!
  • heavygunbowguyheavygunbowguy Member Posts: 33
    edited June 2013
    Honestly, the game is fine as it is already. The only thing you guys need to do? make dungeon campfires require interaction "F" before it makes you spawn there. Probably will fix most problems and save this dying game.
  • zylodeuszylodeus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Wait, so now I have to put effort to get gear? And can't just pay2win it? Dang!

    Best idea ever imo.

    If you have to purchase gear to do a dungeon, you probably should stick to doing foundry quests. If you aren't willing to grind gear, you should probably quit gaming rpg's.

    Sure, you have a life, can barely play, then get the gear at your own pace. Throwing your wallet at the screen is fine, but when it just plays the game for you, it makes zero sense.
  • judicasjudicas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 156 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Has anyone actually tried to loot the gear? just for the hell of it i ran karr, and ran it again, and again, 117 runs later i finally got a pair of AoW bracers. Thankfully i had already purchased them from the AH. Ever try and pug spider? 73 runs later and still no chest piece. Again thankfully i already bought the piece. ohh wait how about ancient gear for GWF... yeah .... there would be maybe 10 players on my server that had it, dedicated guild runs only because NO ONE brings them to CN. So hell if you look at my average of dungeons for the set im going for its above 80 runs per piece, thats just on the armor. 4 pieces x 80 runs = around 320 runs .... thats 320 runs just for armor for someone. I'm sorry if i could not sell off the junk loot I've gotten from the other runs i would have quit. ohhh wait btw thats just for T2 pieces... how about T1 sets as well? BOP is a horrible idea. unless of course you want to waste months of your life trying to get some piece of gear and after you FINALLY get it you will NEVER run the dungeon again because you are sick of it and there is nothing you would get from it anymore anyways.
  • jipatsujipatsu Member Posts: 94
    edited June 2013
    O ye, getting any enchant higher rank than 5 is going to be a pain in the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if BoP on everything comes up.
  • jipatsujipatsu Member Posts: 94
    edited June 2013
    judicas wrote: »
    Has anyone actually tried to loot the gear? just for the hell of it i ran karr, and ran it again, and again, 117 runs later i finally got a pair of AoW bracers. Thankfully i had already purchased them from the AH. Ever try and pug spider? 73 runs later and still no chest piece. Again thankfully i already bought the piece. ohh wait how about ancient gear for GWF... yeah .... there would be maybe 10 players on my server that had it, dedicated guild runs only because NO ONE brings them to CN. So hell if you look at my average of dungeons for the set im going for its above 80 runs per piece, thats just on the armor. 4 pieces x 80 runs = around 320 runs .... thats 320 runs just for armor for someone. I'm sorry if i could not sell off the junk loot I've gotten from the other runs i would have quit. ohhh wait btw thats just for T2 pieces... how about T1 sets as well? BOP is a horrible idea. unless of course you want to waste months of your life trying to get some piece of gear and after you FINALLY get it you will NEVER run the dungeon again because you are sick of it and there is nothing you would get from it anymore anyways.


    320 * minimun of 45 minutes to run the dungeon = 240hrs or 10 days in your case for the 2 drops.

    Awesome.
  • llfritzllllfritzll Member Posts: 215 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    people wouldnt complain so much if the game was a joy to play.

    just putting that in there.
  • questionorquestionor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    In concept I think it should be bop. BUT
    1) It's weird to change this midstream, you should do this when the next tier is added

    2) The delves chest mechanic sucks and needs to be fixed and changed. We need to be able to get the delves chest more. Right now it's very rare as there is only 1 event per hour. I don't care about any event besides delves. And it's completely random so it might be delves at like 6pm eastern (Before I can really play) and then not again till like 2am eastern on some days. We need delves more often or just always give us the chest or let us do something special in dungeon to unlock chest (e.g. a full clear ). In addition, most of the time I don't actually get the delves chest. If we don't finish within the hour and something bumps me outside the dungeon (disconnected, or I have to exit cause the game made me invisible again, someone in the group quit after the first boss and need to requeue) and I lose the chest.

    3) There are 3 sets per tier. I love that we get choices for how we can stat. However that means for drops, assuming it decides to drop a head for example (and there are other things the rng can choose), instead of it being 1/5 (5 classes) it's 1/15 (5*3). Suggestion to improve, how about the game drops a head token or a class specific head token, and we can bring that to a vendor where we can pick which of the 3 sets we want. The 3 sets if things are bop will no longer be a nice feature of letting you choose how to stat but a system that ends up forcing you to stat for whichever set the RNG gives you.
  • magvrahlmagvrahl Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Agree on everything the 1st post informs.
    Earn your gear!!! thats the way to go, because buying the gear from simply going to the AH..... kills the joy of playing with a real purpose! Thumbs up for it and hoping so see it live soon.
  • mispomispo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    so if each of the mini boss and the final boss droped only BoC item, can instantly cancel the AH.
    If you have implemented lot system, the player determines who it will draw,
    so you could do it so when I use the "need" item will BoC, using the "greed" item will be BoE.
    This would solve the problem with the player who gives the "need" just to item sold in AH
  • hankdashankhankdashank Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yeah this could be the deal breaker for me to continue playing this as our main game.
    How about you just keep making fun dungeons and maybe make the foundry loot better so that people will want to play those.
    Having to earn the kind of cash it takes to fill that t2 slot you are missing makes it feel special enough.
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    magvrahl wrote: »
    Agree on everything the 1st post informs.
    Earn your gear!!! thats the way to go, because buying the gear from simply going to the AH..... kills the joy of playing with a real purpose! Thumbs up for it and hoping so see it live soon.

    Im always curious, when folks react like this. Do they have best in slot gear? And how long did it take them to get it? If this a case of "I got mine, now we should change the rules"? Or is this simply someone unaware of the odds of getting drops, the number of runs it might take to get outfitted, and how those odds will only get worse as new classes are added.
  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    oh please. if you do it during DD you get 2 chances to get something you need. TWO.
    guess most of you ADHD kids never played games like EQ where you'd camp for months... MONTHS.. to get 1 item.
    hell maybe just for 1 piece of a quest that you need 30-40 other pieces for just to get ONE epic weapon.
    took me over 1 YEAR to get my wizards epic on EQ.
    not saying I want to do that again in my lifetime.. lol but how about something in between?
    I think 3-4 months of dungeon raiding 1-2 hours a night (average) to get all the best gear in the game for your char is about right..
    I mean after that you are basically DONE with the game, so what's the point if you can just buy $300 worth of Zen convert it to 10M AD and buy everything from the AH?
    PLAY THE GAME.
    it's called Neverwinter not AlwaysTradehouse
  • bellaralodunbellaralodun Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Problems:
    With the current system anyone can roll NEED on anything they want. What happens when people start to need on items outside their class, or even items they already have? You know it happens. There is going to be many people who will just need on everything in order to get a small amount of rough AD.

    Once again please make it Greed = BOE, Need = BOP (with no trade in value).
  • emal83emal83 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I see many people crying for new bind-on-pick up-system. i hope devs just avoid all these players. They cry cause it will be hard to find stronges items, but i think it's the only way to take the game alive.
    These players, always crying cause the game is hard is gonna be to leave the game in the same moment their easytofind equip is ready.
    skitch.png
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Problems:
    With the current system anyone can roll NEED on anything they want.

    No they cant. That system has already been fixed. You can only roll need on items you can use. It has been this way for a little over a week. Its for this reason these other changes, seem a bit extreme.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    questionor wrote: »
    In concept I think it should be bop. BUT
    1) It's weird to change this midstream, you should do this when the next tier is added

    2) The delves chest mechanic sucks and needs to be fixed and changed. We need to be able to get the delves chest more. Right now it's very rare as there is only 1 event per hour. I don't care about any event besides delves. And it's completely random so it might be delves at like 6pm eastern (Before I can really play) and then not again till like 2am eastern on some days. We need delves more often or just always give us the chest or let us do something special in dungeon to unlock chest (e.g. a full clear ). In addition, most of the time I don't actually get the delves chest. If we don't finish within the hour and something bumps me outside the dungeon (disconnected, or I have to exit cause the game made me invisible again, someone in the group quit after the first boss and need to requeue) and I lose the chest.

    3) There are 3 sets per tier. I love that we get choices for how we can stat. However that means for drops, assuming it decides to drop a head for example (and there are other things the rng can choose), instead of it being 1/5 (5 classes) it's 1/15 (5*3). Suggestion to improve, how about the game drops a head token or a class specific head token, and we can bring that to a vendor where we can pick which of the 3 sets we want. The 3 sets if things are bop will no longer be a nice feature of letting you choose how to stat but a system that ends up forcing you to stat for whichever set the RNG gives you.


    1) Agree 100%. Except that pure BoP should never be added... People will quit way too fast.
    2) Delves Chest should give ONLY BoP items. My idea was to only allow the delves chest to be active if you kill the boss during the delves event, HOWEVER run the delve even 2x as often and increase the length of time. Technically you could run TO the boss and start the fight 3 min before delves as long as you kill DURING delves, you get the chest. Also put PVP AFTER delves NOT before. People pre clear usually which hurts the PVP event.
    3) I actually really like the idea of getting a "currency" which could then be turned INTO a set item... You get some type of "base item" as the currency like an "Unforged Guardian Armor" which you then take to a new NPC called "Epic Armor Smith" who will turn it INTO whatever set item you pick.

    As always a HUGE fan of Need = BoP, Greed = BoE.
  • allaerraallaerra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 838 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Problems:
    With the current system anyone can roll NEED on anything they want. What happens when people start to need on items outside their class, or even items they already have? You know it happens. There is going to be many people who will just need on everything in order to get a small amount of rough AD.

    Once again please make it Greed = BOE, Need = BOP (with no trade in value).

    They cannot NEED outside of their class. It is grayed out.
  • n0fxer#8270 n0fxer Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Seems they corrected the main issue of Needing on non-class specific stuff (TR rolling on CW for example), but the pendulum kept going. I would rather see new Tiers become BtC and the previous top set become BoE, and rotate as new sets/tiers release. This would allow incentive for the new gear to be sought as well as incentive to run older stuff for profit (all greed agreement or w/e).

    Sure, not perfect but it seems this would strike that balance.

    My 2 cp
This discussion has been closed.