So what's next? Those people with the high gearscores demanding that only people with very high gearscores have access to making Foundry quests?
In all seriousness though...
Gearscores or Armory pages. I guess people just want to be able to stand on really tall pedastals over everyone else who they consider to be "commoners"...
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
I got 10.5k GS the second I hit level 60. This is just from invoking, AD quests, selling some items/materials I didn't need, and buying a key for 27 gold to sell for AD. Let's note that I'm a GWF and had to chug pots on a regular basis while leveling up.
Getting from 10.5k to 11.9k took some work, though.
0
Options
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
First, let me start by saying that GS is not as important as player skill. That said, in a pug group where everyone is strangers, you have only GS as some kind of weak indication of player skill. You cannot deny that the average of skilled and experienced players with low GS is much lower than players with high GS. Every time you PUG, you are rolling the dice. Getting high GS people just lowers the chances of a long and painful run a bit. Now to the next part.
I'm sorry the behavior of the "anti-elitist" people is just selfish. "I have a 8.3k GS but i want to be invited to a 11k party". What kind of entitlement is this? Why would you purposely drag the whole party down because of that? Most of the 11k people worked HARD for their gear(with the exception of big cash shoppers). I had to endure countless of bad runs with pugs when I was gearing up with lots of wipes and sometimes even not finishing the dungeon. You wanna solve your own problem? Gear up like everyone else did and stop qqing about not being invited to a party you have no place in it.
Easy way to avoid your own problems? Go start your own party where everyone is around your GS. Or do pvp and farm some seals go get higher GS. Getting around 9.8-10k is stupidly easy.
Edit: To the OP: part of your problems is just because you rolled a GWF. Very few people actually want your class. Your pure aoe dps is not ever gonna make you more desirable over a second CW. CW is just too good.
This is true when epic are BoP. Even if you were carried, the gear you got, you won on a roll with a group you went with. At LEAST you experience the fight.
In Neverwinter, we don't have such assurance. All gears are BoE (and one of the reason for GS cause they want to farm MORE BoE and make AD to convert to Zen to buy more store stuff without spending cash)
This is why I said in NeverWinter, visible GS is kinda moot.
TBH the damage counter/meter and gearscore should be removed from this game. Those things have fragmented and disillusioned more gaming communities than I can count. It's the dumbest thing to come to an MMO.
NW has a visible combat log. There will always be damage meters.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
0
Options
lethizorMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Gearscore is currently more of an indicator of who has spent more time exploiting, sadly. When people insist on high gear score and 'experience' they usually mean experience doing wall jumping/speedruns/terrain exploits. I steer clear of those groups. If I have to do pugs, which I often due because of my odd schedule - I'll grab at least another guildie and then either look for people for the instance in zone myself or just use the LFG tool and rely on there being two of us and me being the cleric as weight to make the pugs actually do the instance legitimately.
The entire gearscore concept is kind of stupid, but in conjunction with the existing exploitation of the end-game content, it's even worse.
It's really annoying how people think they're good at the game and know all of the encounters when really all they know how to do is stand up on a pillar/jump through walls/run to a campfire/fall through the earth/knock bosses off a ledge, etc, etc, etc -_-
These same people then complain about the difficulty level of the game.
Really? I haven't done it but I wasn't aware standing somewhere and just casting whatever the heck you please because nothing can hit you and you don't have to move or do anything was difficult!
Apparently it's not easy enough though, we also need to skip trash! It's soooo harrrdddd and booorrring.
I always ask in pugs if I'm grabbing someone "Are you patient, can you listen? Are you willing to actually do the encounters? " instead of "Whats your gearscore". So far this is working out for me -that and having an excellent guild.
I know some people don't like or want to be in guilds but with this type of community you guys should really consider joining one, or at least forming some kind of loose alliance/making friends from the forums in-game or somesuch. If the community weren't so god-awful pugging might be more bearable.
Unfortunately, the community is reflective of humanity, and it doesn't look good for us.
Are you sure you mean ICC and not NAX? I have a real hard time believing that a PUG in blues could down Sindragosa or Arthas no matter how much skill the players had. Just not enough damage output. On the other hand, I do remember doing something similar to what you describe in Nax when that was still the end game raid and everyone still thought KT was tough.
I ment ICC. Icecrown Citadel 25Man Normal.
And people in blue gear, are more than capable of clearing ICC after the nerfs.
It's all about communication and individual performance. We were only 2people from our guild that was on our alts, and we lead the raid using our own strategies and teamspeak to relay the message. We had zero problems because we were fair and treated people with proper respect. Even people with little to no raid experience were doing great, and got rewarded thereafter.
Keep in mind, we were the kind of guild that sold Raid runs. Champion of ulduar 10/25, Trial of the Grand Crusader 10/25, ICC 10/25 with mounts from achievements 25man, and invincible reins. We knew what we were doing.
And the damage required on Sindragosa and LK wasn't that high on 25man normal. 125k combined was needed on both..
The raid was doing 135k.. (125k combined is not much, but it's enough to be within the enrage timer on both, ater the nerfs.)
But yes, I did the same for Nax 10/25, and Ulduar 10..
Just lie about your GS. They can't/won't check as inspect shows your gearscore, not the person you inspected. not exactly a fix, but I fudged my way into groups without issue until I had the suggested GS.
Because they can't just like.. Inspect you, you know?
Damage meter should stay. Gearscore should be removed. Without the damage meter you can't see who's actually performing up to par with what they should. given the gear they have. No gearscore needed. But you can see if people are pullign their own load using the damage meter. And quite easily so.
Me and my mate are playing GWF's, and have been levelling these together through each zone and dungeon/skirmish.
So far, not a single class have been even remotely close to taking us on dps in any way or form, and we don't just mash buttons to get high numbers, we protect our casters first and foremost, allowing them to freecast.
The main problem with the game is. It's free to play, meaning it attracts a lot of different people. Which in turn is very good. But generally you get people who don't really care about how they perform, nor do they care about improving on it.
And if they don't want to improve, no manner of gearscore will help them.
That's a fact, and I doubt that every single player that we've met in dungeons are just horrible players. People just don't generally care about learning how their class functions. If people did, then you wouldn't need to tell one's skill.
But this is just my own opinion, and you might not share it, or even like it.
But it's mine, and you're entitled to have your own as long as you don't judge others by theirs.
0
Options
zefuzexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I really don't see the problem with gear score. As others have said, a skilled player with a low gear score is much better than a poor player with a high gear score, but at the very least GS gives a quick indication of a person's potential as a player. If they removed gear score, people would just inspect each other. Should they remove that too?
In your case, the sad truth right now is GWF's are not really in demand for dungeons and even if a group is willing to take one, DPS are a dime a dozen. As good as you may be geared, group leaders can probably find a DPS with better gear. Are they a better player than you? Who knows? They have higher potential than you though.
I am a DC on the other hand. When I was first gearing, I saw a PUG looking for a 10k+ GS DC for a T2 run. I whispered the guy and said "Hey, I'm only 9.4k GS, but I'm willing to go if you don't want to wait." He invited me and away we went. Ultimately it boils down to supply and demand.
If you want to avoid these issues, just join a guild or form your own PUG group.
unfortunately f2p games brings out the bottom feeders of life ppl that get their self esteem from playing a video game
0
Options
badmoongooMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
Gearscore-elitism isn't valid in a game where you can get 10k gearscore just as you lvl to 60 just by buying some gear off the AH, skill is on the other hand a very valid demand as gearscore wont tell you anything about where ppl got their gear.
I'd rather go to a dungeon with a person in all blues who know how to play than a fully epixed toon that has just turned 60 and bought all his epix off the AH.
Welcome to a classic example of devs that do not know what they are doing or why they are doing it. And when I say that, I am giving a deep benefit of the doubt because this whole endeavor has the distinct flavor of some off-the-shelf product that they just never bothered to configure.
Exclusive or Inclusive
Do you want players to group or do you want to keep them from grouping? Do you want them to group based on certain things? Do you want to enable elitism or make it less prevalent?
It is entirely likely that Cryptic doe indeed want to make elitism more accessible to the populace striating the community into narrow bands of cookie-cutter builds mechanically cranking out dungeons with endless repetitions of the one strat. Although I doubt they put that much thought into it so let me give some suggestions for a less elite experience that might be more accessible to a wider cross section of your populace.
Entry controls
I understand you want to control who gets into what dungeon from a purely game-balance perspective. But don’t leave that number lying around where everyone can see it. Make it somewhat less tacky. Private is the best but if you just have to have it visible then make it a simple bar-graph with titles. So you can get into the first dungeon at “Lucky Adventurer” and the next tier at “Well Geared” or some such nonsense.
Certainly elitists will still capitalize on this scheme but it will be less granular. And anyone who has been kicked over a few points might appreciate the chance to give it a try rather than being prejudged by a lazy pool of points.
I shouldn’t have to group with noobs and scrubs!
You have a point but you don’t know who these people are or what they are capable of doing. I see that you want a way of hanging a label on everyone and maximizing your chances of success but you are not the only person playing this game and elitism just ensures less people get a chance to learn the content and narrows the field from which you can choose.
I know logic is hard when you have wiped three times to some mad puller or a tank that doesn’t know what buttons to push. But giving players a chance to learn the content actually increases the chances you will find someone good or at least as dedicated to improvement as you.
And if you are still dead set on being elite and better than everyone else then you can still do that, you just have to make a note of who does a good job and who sucks. Re-invite the performers and shuck the scrubs. If that makes being elite a little harder then welcome to it.
But it isn’t that way at the moment. Gearscore just lets elitists lazily exclude players and prune down the player-base but making sure less and less people have a chance to learn the content. And since we do not also have an IQ score, the best I can do is suggest that gearscore is a good way to make a bad experience worse.
Gear score does not mean dps, I have fought with several TR's who have had higher scores than me and did over a million more damage than them. Its about what stats you focus your build on period. Take for instance at 60 if I take my rare belt off for a purp belt my gear score goes up but my attack goes down almost 1000 points because of the stat difference. Does this mean me gaining gear score makes my hero better at dps? No it actually makes my hero put out less dps. So yes gear score needs fixed.
0
Options
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
You know what would better than gearscore? (at least for now)
How many time you did X run. How many bosses you defeated
Castle Neverwinter is 4/4. So it would look like this
Castle Neverwinter attempts: 13
Boss 1 9/10
Boss 2 9/10
Boss 3 8/10
Boss 4 6/10
Quit/Time out: 3
The Elitism in this game keeps increasing as time goes on and classes are nerfed as dungeons get harder. I thought my big battle with this game was just overall class balance now players will not play with you if you do not have 12k gearscore plus the "right" weapon enchant.
This happeend to me today I was kicked from a CN group as a GWF with 11k gearscore and Vorpal enchantment because I did not have Greater Plague fire Enchant.
I would not worry to much about it. The people who advertise saying you need this GS + This Enchant + This Armor are garbage and are trying to ride the backs of better players. All the good players know GS means nothing and is no indication of actual skill. Not all classes calculate GS equally either. For example a fresh lv60 GF can hit 12k GS while not even trying while for a CW you need all rank 7 or better enchants + the CN set to hit 12k.
You would think any 11k GS character would be a vaule to a dungeon with a 9200 GS reguirement not to mention one with a Vorpal sword.
Part of the reason is these dungeons have gotten alot harder since DC, CW and TR got nerfed. The fighter buffs are nice but do not make up for the nerfs the other classes had to face.
I would like to see GS completely done away with. And since Elitism will never go away completely I suggest this in its place. Once you have completed A set amount of T1 and T2 dungeons you characters name changes from white to green. When you hace completed Lots of T2's and Geared up your GS to a certain point your characters name becomes Blue signifing you are Ready for CN. And Wehn you have completeled a rediculous amount of CNs and have purples in every slot and runestones your name should become Purple. This should be so hard to get that you will never see an all Purple team of elitsm players. That they should always be accepting blue players.
If you can't get rid of gearscores just dont let other players "see" your gearscore. It would amuse me greatly if the GS of another player just said "Over 9000" and that is all the info you could get from another player. This way player skill and expereince will matter more than GS.
I would not worry about it. The people who say you need this GS+Enchant+Experience+Armor Set are garbage. The good players know GS means nothing and is in no way related to actual skill. Also Gs does not calculate the same for every class. A new lv60 GF can have 12k Gs with his eyes closed while a CW needs all rank 7 + the CN set to hit 1200
The only time I keep an eye on people's gs is on Spider Temple runs. It usually takes fairly decent and well equipped group to do it consistently and effectively.
The numbers elitism is kind of funny. The game doesn't really have gear checks apart from spiderqueen if you use one particular tactic. A group that has good game sense will understand the content and could do it in blues and greens because its iq test not a gear check mostly. They will just do it faster in better gear.
So gs isn't necessary but on top of that it in no way guarantees that the people who have it aren't total mongs. Everyone I've ever recruited from zone for spellplague who claimed to be geared and experienced made the dungeon total torture by ensuring that we had to dps down just about every last monster in it.
0
Options
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would not worry about it. The people who say you need this GS+Enchant+Experience+Armor Set are garbage. The good players know GS means nothing and is in no way related to actual skill. Also Gs does not calculate the same for every class. A new lv60 GF can have 12k Gs with his eyes closed while a CW needs all rank 7 + the CN set to hit 1200
I'd like to know how a fresh L60 GF can have 12k GS.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
0
Options
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I ment ICC. Icecrown Citadel 25Man Normal.
And people in blue gear, are more than capable of clearing ICC after the nerfs.
It's all about communication and individual performance. We were only 2people from our guild that was on our alts, and we lead the raid using our own strategies and teamspeak to relay the message. We had zero problems because we were fair and treated people with proper respect. Even people with little to no raid experience were doing great, and got rewarded thereafter.
Keep in mind, we were the kind of guild that sold Raid runs. Champion of ulduar 10/25, Trial of the Grand Crusader 10/25, ICC 10/25 with mounts from achievements 25man, and invincible reins. We knew what we were doing.
And the damage required on Sindragosa and LK wasn't that high on 25man normal. 125k combined was needed on both..
The raid was doing 135k.. (125k combined is not much, but it's enough to be within the enrage timer on both, ater the nerfs.)
But yes, I did the same for Nax 10/25, and Ulduar 10..
OK, I guess I never played ICC after the nerfs. I pretty much stopped playing WOW after my guild beat Arthas. I just remember our experienced, very well-geared group having a tough time with those two fights after pretty much cruising through the rest of ICC.
0
Options
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
My cleric is only level 29, and the AD I've gotten from just doing daily stuff and leadership tasks was enough to buy most of their T1 set. Kind of reminds me of welfare epics from WoW. Yeah, I know, I'm part of the problem.
0
Options
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
My cleric is only level 29, and the AD I've gotten from just doing daily stuff and leadership tasks was enough to buy most of their T1 set. Kind of reminds me of welfare epics from WoW. Yeah, I know, I'm part of the problem.
I wouldn't say that. MMO is evolving more toward casual/group play. The way of old MMO are gear gated content. This mean that you can't do certain things until you have X gear (tiers) can't do higher level content until you do lower level content.
this can cause problem as the game expand and gear requirement jump (i.e. Tier 3+)
So MMO developer make way for players to get lower level tier faster and able to do high level "gated content" without having to spend months to gain access.
Neverwinter kinda made a skip of the whole process by making all epic BoE.
Comments
In all seriousness though...
Gearscores or Armory pages. I guess people just want to be able to stand on really tall pedastals over everyone else who they consider to be "commoners"...
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
I got 10.5k GS the second I hit level 60. This is just from invoking, AD quests, selling some items/materials I didn't need, and buying a key for 27 gold to sell for AD. Let's note that I'm a GWF and had to chug pots on a regular basis while leveling up.
Getting from 10.5k to 11.9k took some work, though.
This is true when epic are BoP. Even if you were carried, the gear you got, you won on a roll with a group you went with. At LEAST you experience the fight.
In Neverwinter, we don't have such assurance. All gears are BoE (and one of the reason for GS cause they want to farm MORE BoE and make AD to convert to Zen to buy more store stuff without spending cash)
This is why I said in NeverWinter, visible GS is kinda moot.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
NW has a visible combat log. There will always be damage meters.
The entire gearscore concept is kind of stupid, but in conjunction with the existing exploitation of the end-game content, it's even worse.
It's really annoying how people think they're good at the game and know all of the encounters when really all they know how to do is stand up on a pillar/jump through walls/run to a campfire/fall through the earth/knock bosses off a ledge, etc, etc, etc -_-
These same people then complain about the difficulty level of the game.
Really? I haven't done it but I wasn't aware standing somewhere and just casting whatever the heck you please because nothing can hit you and you don't have to move or do anything was difficult!
Apparently it's not easy enough though, we also need to skip trash! It's soooo harrrdddd and booorrring.
I always ask in pugs if I'm grabbing someone "Are you patient, can you listen? Are you willing to actually do the encounters? " instead of "Whats your gearscore". So far this is working out for me -that and having an excellent guild.
I know some people don't like or want to be in guilds but with this type of community you guys should really consider joining one, or at least forming some kind of loose alliance/making friends from the forums in-game or somesuch. If the community weren't so god-awful pugging might be more bearable.
Unfortunately, the community is reflective of humanity, and it doesn't look good for us.
I ment ICC. Icecrown Citadel 25Man Normal.
And people in blue gear, are more than capable of clearing ICC after the nerfs.
It's all about communication and individual performance. We were only 2people from our guild that was on our alts, and we lead the raid using our own strategies and teamspeak to relay the message. We had zero problems because we were fair and treated people with proper respect. Even people with little to no raid experience were doing great, and got rewarded thereafter.
Keep in mind, we were the kind of guild that sold Raid runs. Champion of ulduar 10/25, Trial of the Grand Crusader 10/25, ICC 10/25 with mounts from achievements 25man, and invincible reins. We knew what we were doing.
And the damage required on Sindragosa and LK wasn't that high on 25man normal. 125k combined was needed on both..
The raid was doing 135k.. (125k combined is not much, but it's enough to be within the enrage timer on both, ater the nerfs.)
But yes, I did the same for Nax 10/25, and Ulduar 10..
Because they can't just like.. Inspect you, you know?
Damage meter should stay. Gearscore should be removed. Without the damage meter you can't see who's actually performing up to par with what they should. given the gear they have. No gearscore needed. But you can see if people are pullign their own load using the damage meter. And quite easily so.
Me and my mate are playing GWF's, and have been levelling these together through each zone and dungeon/skirmish.
So far, not a single class have been even remotely close to taking us on dps in any way or form, and we don't just mash buttons to get high numbers, we protect our casters first and foremost, allowing them to freecast.
The main problem with the game is. It's free to play, meaning it attracts a lot of different people. Which in turn is very good. But generally you get people who don't really care about how they perform, nor do they care about improving on it.
And if they don't want to improve, no manner of gearscore will help them.
That's a fact, and I doubt that every single player that we've met in dungeons are just horrible players. People just don't generally care about learning how their class functions. If people did, then you wouldn't need to tell one's skill.
But this is just my own opinion, and you might not share it, or even like it.
But it's mine, and you're entitled to have your own as long as you don't judge others by theirs.
In your case, the sad truth right now is GWF's are not really in demand for dungeons and even if a group is willing to take one, DPS are a dime a dozen. As good as you may be geared, group leaders can probably find a DPS with better gear. Are they a better player than you? Who knows? They have higher potential than you though.
I am a DC on the other hand. When I was first gearing, I saw a PUG looking for a 10k+ GS DC for a T2 run. I whispered the guy and said "Hey, I'm only 9.4k GS, but I'm willing to go if you don't want to wait." He invited me and away we went. Ultimately it boils down to supply and demand.
If you want to avoid these issues, just join a guild or form your own PUG group.
I'd rather go to a dungeon with a person in all blues who know how to play than a fully epixed toon that has just turned 60 and bought all his epix off the AH.
Exclusive or Inclusive
Do you want players to group or do you want to keep them from grouping? Do you want them to group based on certain things? Do you want to enable elitism or make it less prevalent?
It is entirely likely that Cryptic doe indeed want to make elitism more accessible to the populace striating the community into narrow bands of cookie-cutter builds mechanically cranking out dungeons with endless repetitions of the one strat. Although I doubt they put that much thought into it so let me give some suggestions for a less elite experience that might be more accessible to a wider cross section of your populace.
Entry controls
I understand you want to control who gets into what dungeon from a purely game-balance perspective. But don’t leave that number lying around where everyone can see it. Make it somewhat less tacky. Private is the best but if you just have to have it visible then make it a simple bar-graph with titles. So you can get into the first dungeon at “Lucky Adventurer” and the next tier at “Well Geared” or some such nonsense.
Certainly elitists will still capitalize on this scheme but it will be less granular. And anyone who has been kicked over a few points might appreciate the chance to give it a try rather than being prejudged by a lazy pool of points.
I shouldn’t have to group with noobs and scrubs!
You have a point but you don’t know who these people are or what they are capable of doing. I see that you want a way of hanging a label on everyone and maximizing your chances of success but you are not the only person playing this game and elitism just ensures less people get a chance to learn the content and narrows the field from which you can choose.
I know logic is hard when you have wiped three times to some mad puller or a tank that doesn’t know what buttons to push. But giving players a chance to learn the content actually increases the chances you will find someone good or at least as dedicated to improvement as you.
And if you are still dead set on being elite and better than everyone else then you can still do that, you just have to make a note of who does a good job and who sucks. Re-invite the performers and shuck the scrubs. If that makes being elite a little harder then welcome to it.
But it isn’t that way at the moment. Gearscore just lets elitists lazily exclude players and prune down the player-base but making sure less and less people have a chance to learn the content. And since we do not also have an IQ score, the best I can do is suggest that gearscore is a good way to make a bad experience worse.
How many time you did X run. How many bosses you defeated
Castle Neverwinter is 4/4. So it would look like this
Castle Neverwinter attempts: 13
Boss 1 9/10
Boss 2 9/10
Boss 3 8/10
Boss 4 6/10
Quit/Time out: 3
That would be more handy than gearscore
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I would not worry about it. The people who say you need this GS+Enchant+Experience+Armor Set are garbage. The good players know GS means nothing and is in no way related to actual skill. Also Gs does not calculate the same for every class. A new lv60 GF can have 12k Gs with his eyes closed while a CW needs all rank 7 + the CN set to hit 1200
So gs isn't necessary but on top of that it in no way guarantees that the people who have it aren't total mongs. Everyone I've ever recruited from zone for spellplague who claimed to be geared and experienced made the dungeon total torture by ensuring that we had to dps down just about every last monster in it.
I'd like to know how a fresh L60 GF can have 12k GS.
in Neverwinter, you can buy it from AH.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I doubt a fresh 60 would have the several mill AD for a T2 set with extras that would get them to 12K. I'm in T1 gear and I'm only pushing 10.7K.
Sure you can.. you can buy Zen and exchange it to AD.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
OK, I guess I never played ICC after the nerfs. I pretty much stopped playing WOW after my guild beat Arthas. I just remember our experienced, very well-geared group having a tough time with those two fights after pretty much cruising through the rest of ICC.
Sure you can do that too, but I don't recommend it. you can get banned from that but not buying a bunch of Zen and convert to AD
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
@headlesshorseman
I wouldn't say that. MMO is evolving more toward casual/group play. The way of old MMO are gear gated content. This mean that you can't do certain things until you have X gear (tiers) can't do higher level content until you do lower level content.
this can cause problem as the game expand and gear requirement jump (i.e. Tier 3+)
So MMO developer make way for players to get lower level tier faster and able to do high level "gated content" without having to spend months to gain access.
Neverwinter kinda made a skip of the whole process by making all epic BoE.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
they already do ive seen a guild advertised must have 8.5k gs on beholder shard
Most of the guilds require 10k + to apply atm , bacause of the new event . Read the zone chat closely you'll see what I am talking about .
I'm not saying that 10k+ is hard to achieve , it's not hard at all imho .