Elitism should only be brought up when there's actually difficult content. Difficulty is a joke in Neverwinter. And even without those rules applied elitism is much less about exploiting dungeons.
All of them are a huge mess and tbh I've stopped running them since I don't play to get pixels. There's no challenge, it's just a get your pixel as fast as you can runs.
I hope PWE opens their eyes before going live with this huge mess (and don't come tell me some paths are meant to be there, I'm talking about making bosses suicide, dropping down the scenery and /stuck to get no new checkpoints and even finishing runs in less than 10 mins). It's a joke really.
Back to elitism, you can't avoid it, even without GS. the only reall difference is people will try to talk to you about tactics if you have high GS, if you don't they will just kick you.
The whole thing about people wanting to group with only experienced people reminds of how almost all jobs in the creative industry require experience. Well, how do you expect people to get said experience if you don't actually take them? Soon enough you'll just have the same tiny group of people doing the rounds and that results in stagnation.
Example experiences with people under 10k Gearscore:
9,600 TR in Spell Plague - Exploded almost every fight. Boss took a full 30 minutes, after 3 failures.
9,800 GF in Spider - Didn't know what abilities to use. Low DPS on Spider Queen boss took around 30 minutes to finish, after 2 failures.
9,600 CW in Spell Plague - Aggroed everything that moved before we had a chance to prepare. Left right before the first boss.
Example experiences with people over 10k Gearscore:
11,000 TR in Spell Plague - Very few downs. Boss took one try and went down in around 10-15 minutes.
10,800 GF in Spider - Lead the team like an utter boss. Noticeable DPS increase on boss, taking only one try at around 10-15 minutes.
11,400 DC in Spell Plague - Did great through the entire dungeon. When everyone but him and myself died at the final boss, the two of us ALMOST finished off the last 20% HP(down to 3% HP). I'm a GWF.
These are just some examples with what I have dealt with in my time doing dungeons. Most of the time that I get people under 10k gearscore, something goes wrong. They leave, aggro everything, make poor choices, and tend to do lower DPS. There are some times where someone under 10k gearscore surprises me, but those instances are few and far between. Meanwhile, I have much better experiences with people over 10k gearscore, with rare disappointments.
I'm a guildless GWF, so I rarely get invited into dungeons in the first place, even with my 11.9k gearscore. I don't like taking 2 hours for one dungeon and/or having to give up because everyone ran out of pots/medkits/don't have enough dps/skill.
Gearscore has no effect on the type of player someone his so it is a useless stat anyway. Of course this game is one of those games made to keep skill at a equal level, some where in gaming history people thought it was unfair to make skill based games because casuals couldn't complete the games. Really ruining games with all this casual BS anyway. Remove it all and bring back skill!
First off, I have to say I agree.
I'm one of those people who pick a class because it's generally not wanted in groups because it doesn't compare to them in term's of damage and what not. So I went with a GWF.
The general consencus is that people don't want you in a group, regardless of gearscore and skill. GWF's are just bad for 5man groups, hurr durr.
That is just plain and corrupt bull****.
I used to do something on wow back in the day of wrath of the lich king.
I played a paladin tank in a very competive guild, and in a top ranked guild.
I was decked out with all the bis tanking gear from ICC, but wait. Don't hate on me just yet. I'm not bragging.
This is something else. I was so tired about the gearscore requirements people put up, but as part of the guild I was in on the server we naturally got a lot of respect for our progressions and what not. And so I started making my own groups for raids on our offdays, just to raid and clear content, and what I did was. I banned anyone in the raid group of 25people to ever mention gearscore or anything of the like in chat, or to anyone in the raid through whispers and what not.
And when we had the group up, we challenged a group of people who had a gearscore requirement to a timed run.
They wanted people with full 25man normal gear to run ICC normal after the nerfs.(meaning full epic gear just to join the group, no mention about skill whatsoever.)
I asked people in my group to atleast have blues that allowed them to join heroic 5man dungeons, and to listen to what I said on teamspeak.(Meaning people in my group basically had no purples whatsoever, except for the odd crafted one.)
One guy recorded our event through ICC, and we ended up clearing ICC with zero whipes, and used 1 and half hour less than the guys decked out in full epic gear.
Conclusion, gear never matters as much as communication and or skill in a game.
People just refuse to accept that.
Side note. How do you like your Vorpal ? I recently been thinking of one for PvP mainly. PvE is back burners for me at least its well PvE. I have a greater plague and I do like it. I am a GF so its what is used but a Vorpal might be fun to test. How you like it with your class. And you are a strong Aoe class how is it working for you?
True true, if BoP goes through those/us "overgeared" people won't bother with dungeons or maybe the game and very likely not a lot of the end bosses will ever be killed.
Doesn't seem a problem if these over geared players won't play with those who need the gear. If they stop doing them, nothing changes, except we stop hearing the spam for exp. people maybe.
If you were already excepted into the group and then kicked because you didn't meet the gear score then I would call that Pizz poor attitude on the leaders part and that person should be punished in some way, because that is pretty near a form of racism my book.
However if you know before trying to get into a party that the leader is looking for a particular GS then just look else-where for a group.
In the grand scheme of things this game hasen't been out that long, and I come online with a really close friend almost everyday for a few hours and we are only level 45, so these people that say they only have been playing for a week or so ????? and are level 60, and they got all these nice item sets........
Sounds pretty fishy to me????????? Maybe the Devs should look at these accounts and the items in them.....
Can you say....Exploit, ShortCut Farming, Ninja Looting, AD/AH exploiting.........
I think Cryptic needs to put up an " Elitist Server " where even the Gear prices are fit for a " God "
If you want to play a God then you have to Pay God-like prices.
If you were already excepted into the group and then kicked because you didn't meet the gear score then I would call that Pizz poor attitude on the leaders part and that person should be punished in some way, because that is pretty near a form of racism my book.
However if you know before trying to get into a party that the leader is looking for a particular GS then just look else-where for a group.
In the grand scheme of things this game hasen't been out that long, and I come online with a really close friend almost everyday for a few hours and we are only level 45, so these people that say they only have been playing for a week or so ????? and are level 60, and they got all these nice item sets........
Sounds pretty fishy to me????????? Maybe the Devs should look at these accounts and the items in them.....
Can you say....Exploit, ShortCut Farming, Ninja Looting, AD/AH exploiting.........
I think Cryptic needs to put up an " Elitist Server " where even the Gear prices are fit for a " God "
If you want to play a God then you have to Pay God-like prices.
Just A Thought.
They didn't take action against people who made 60 in a day through quest sharing or foundry spam. Essentially it told players "exploit early, exploit hard, and don't worry"
The rest was just taking advantage of Founders by doing **** like selling pvp weapons for a couple hundred thousand each.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
It's not bad game design .. it's the community that is killing the community.
The game design promotes doing it.
I don't queue solo for CN because I just don't have the hours it takes to do that place with brand new 9200 GS people. No hate, I just don't want to be in there 1/4 a day.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
If you were already excepted into the group and then kicked because you didn't meet the gear score then I would call that Pizz poor attitude on the leaders part and that person should be punished in some way, because that is pretty near a form of racism my book.
However if you know before trying to get into a party that the leader is looking for a particular GS then just look else-where for a group.
In the grand scheme of things this game hasen't been out that long, and I come online with a really close friend almost everyday for a few hours and we are only level 45, so these people that say they only have been playing for a week or so ????? and are level 60, and they got all these nice item sets........
Sounds pretty fishy to me????????? Maybe the Devs should look at these accounts and the items in them.....
Can you say....Exploit, ShortCut Farming, Ninja Looting, AD/AH exploiting.........
I think Cryptic needs to put up an " Elitist Server " where even the Gear prices are fit for a " God "
If you want to play a God then you have to Pay God-like prices.
Just A Thought.
Takes me 6 days to level a toon to 60. That is storyline quests only.
First off, I have to say I agree.
I'm one of those people who pick a class because it's generally not wanted in groups because it doesn't compare to them in term's of damage and what not. So I went with a GWF.
The general consencus is that people don't want you in a group, regardless of gearscore and skill. GWF's are just bad for 5man groups, hurr durr.
That is just plain and corrupt bull****.
I used to do something on wow back in the day of wrath of the lich king.
I played a paladin tank in a very competive guild, and in a top ranked guild.
I was decked out with all the bis tanking gear from ICC, but wait. Don't hate on me just yet. I'm not bragging.
This is something else. I was so tired about the gearscore requirements people put up, but as part of the guild I was in on the server we naturally got a lot of respect for our progressions and what not. And so I started making my own groups for raids on our offdays, just to raid and clear content, and what I did was. I banned anyone in the raid group of 25people to ever mention gearscore or anything of the like in chat, or to anyone in the raid through whispers and what not.
And when we had the group up, we challenged a group of people who had a gearscore requirement to a timed run.
They wanted people with full 25man normal gear to run ICC normal after the nerfs.(meaning full epic gear just to join the group, no mention about skill whatsoever.)
I asked people in my group to atleast have blues that allowed them to join heroic 5man dungeons, and to listen to what I said on teamspeak.(Meaning people in my group basically had no purples whatsoever, except for the odd crafted one.)
One guy recorded our event through ICC, and we ended up clearing ICC with zero whipes, and used 1 and half hour less than the guys decked out in full epic gear.
Conclusion, gear never matters as much as communication and or skill in a game.
People just refuse to accept that.
Are you sure you mean ICC and not NAX? I have a real hard time believing that a PUG in blues could down Sindragosa or Arthas no matter how much skill the players had. Just not enough damage output. On the other hand, I do remember doing something similar to what you describe in Nax when that was still the end game raid and everyone still thought KT was tough.
0
danxbxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
True true, if BoP goes through those/us "overgeared" people won't bother with dungeons or maybe the game and very likely not a lot of the end bosses will ever be killed.
Because you are the only ones who can kill the end boss....
Maybe then the designers will adjust the difficulty and let the 99% of the player population take a crack at it.
My post was meant as sarcasm Chrono lol
I am pretty sure the difficulty level of bosses is already adjusted for a group of "reasonably geared and skilled" players. MMO difficulty is usually designed to be completed on average performance. It would otherwise spawn a flurry of complaints from the "entitlement crowd."
I am pretty sure the difficulty level of bosses is already adjusted for a group of "reasonably geared and skilled" players. MMO difficulty is usually designed to be completed on average performance. It would otherwise spawn a flurry of complaints from the "entitlement crowd."
I'm actually looking forward to do dungeons again once the elitist crowd are gone.
I'm actually looking forward to do dungeons again once the elitist crowd are gone.
It would be nice if that whole "elitist mentality' was erased from the MMORPG genre. I understand that there are egotist that thrive on the whole "I am greater than thou" decease. But it baffles me how entire communities have been consumed by it. These are suppose to be games to be played for fun and this mentality has literally hijacked the fun out of these games for their own "i am a legend in my own mind" self-entitled gratification.
Search for a new guild using the Guild Search window. Type the word "casual" and try out one of those. If people in that guild complain that your GS isn't high enough, then they are not a true casual guild! You should report those "elites" to the guild leader, or simply quit and join another casual guild until you find one!
The Random Dungeon Queue system is exactly that! It's random! Sometimes you'll be in a group full of casuals, or people who don't care about GS, other times you will and they will whine that you're too low. That's just how it is and the only way to avoid them completely is to join a casual guild!
TBH the damage counter/meter and gearscore should be removed from this game. Those things have fragmented and disillusioned more gaming communities than I can count. It's the dumbest thing to come to an MMO.
Just lie about your GS. They can't/won't check as inspect shows your gearscore, not the person you inspected. not exactly a fix, but I fudged my way into groups without issue until I had the suggested GS.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
I understand that certain dungeon should have "gearscore" that allows you to enter. that should be just it.
The whole Gearscore for Neverwinter is silly. why? cause ALL epic is BoE. If you have 12k Gear Score and bought it all, it doesn't make you better unless you have experience with your character (which some do and some don't)
I think the gearscore should be hidden and only use to get into instance OR even better, have a guardian fight similar to Secret world, that will unlock you to enter instance.
I understand that certain dungeon should have "gearscore" that allows you to enter. that should be just it.
The whole Gearscore for Neverwinter is silly. why? cause ALL epic is BoE. If you have 12k Gear Score and bought it all, it doesn't make you better unless you have experience with your character (which some do and some don't)
I think the gearscore should be hidden and only use to get into instance OR even better, have a guardian fight similar to Secret world, that will unlock you to enter instance.
Yes ... it is a computer game after all. The program should be able to detect if you are properly geared to confront the level of difficulty required of the dungeon and if so allow entry. Sort of how we are not allowed to enter some dungeons until we reach a certain level. Really not rocket science. Why leave this decision for players to sort out?
First, let me start by saying that GS is not as important as player skill. That said, in a pug group where everyone is strangers, you have only GS as some kind of weak indication of player skill. You cannot deny that the average of skilled and experienced players with low GS is much lower than players with high GS. Every time you PUG, you are rolling the dice. Getting high GS people just lowers the chances of a long and painful run a bit. Now to the next part.
I'm sorry the behavior of the "anti-elitist" people is just selfish. "I have a 8.3k GS but i want to be invited to a 11k party". What kind of entitlement is this? Why would you purposely drag the whole party down because of that? Most of the 11k people worked HARD for their gear(with the exception of big cash shoppers). I had to endure countless of bad runs with pugs when I was gearing up with lots of wipes and sometimes even not finishing the dungeon. You wanna solve your own problem? Gear up like everyone else did and stop qqing about not being invited to a party you have no place in it.
Easy way to avoid your own problems? Go start your own party where everyone is around your GS. Or do pvp and farm some seals go get higher GS. Getting around 9.8-10k is stupidly easy.
Edit: To the OP: part of your problems is just because you rolled a GWF. Very few people actually want your class. Your pure aoe dps is not ever gonna make you more desirable over a second CW. CW is just too good.
So what's next? Those people with the high gearscores demanding that only people with very high gearscores have access to making Foundry quests?
In all seriousness though...
Gearscores or Armory pages. I guess people just want to be able to stand on really tall pedastals over everyone else who they consider to be "commoners"...
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Comments
Elitism should only be brought up when there's actually difficult content. Difficulty is a joke in Neverwinter. And even without those rules applied elitism is much less about exploiting dungeons.
All of them are a huge mess and tbh I've stopped running them since I don't play to get pixels. There's no challenge, it's just a get your pixel as fast as you can runs.
I hope PWE opens their eyes before going live with this huge mess (and don't come tell me some paths are meant to be there, I'm talking about making bosses suicide, dropping down the scenery and /stuck to get no new checkpoints and even finishing runs in less than 10 mins). It's a joke really.
Back to elitism, you can't avoid it, even without GS. the only reall difference is people will try to talk to you about tactics if you have high GS, if you don't they will just kick you.
closing note:
FIX THE DAMNED DUNGEONS before going live...
9,600 TR in Spell Plague - Exploded almost every fight. Boss took a full 30 minutes, after 3 failures.
9,800 GF in Spider - Didn't know what abilities to use. Low DPS on Spider Queen boss took around 30 minutes to finish, after 2 failures.
9,600 CW in Spell Plague - Aggroed everything that moved before we had a chance to prepare. Left right before the first boss.
Example experiences with people over 10k Gearscore:
11,000 TR in Spell Plague - Very few downs. Boss took one try and went down in around 10-15 minutes.
10,800 GF in Spider - Lead the team like an utter boss. Noticeable DPS increase on boss, taking only one try at around 10-15 minutes.
11,400 DC in Spell Plague - Did great through the entire dungeon. When everyone but him and myself died at the final boss, the two of us ALMOST finished off the last 20% HP(down to 3% HP). I'm a GWF.
These are just some examples with what I have dealt with in my time doing dungeons. Most of the time that I get people under 10k gearscore, something goes wrong. They leave, aggro everything, make poor choices, and tend to do lower DPS. There are some times where someone under 10k gearscore surprises me, but those instances are few and far between. Meanwhile, I have much better experiences with people over 10k gearscore, with rare disappointments.
I'm a guildless GWF, so I rarely get invited into dungeons in the first place, even with my 11.9k gearscore. I don't like taking 2 hours for one dungeon and/or having to give up because everyone ran out of pots/medkits/don't have enough dps/skill.
The experience people gain while they completely outgear an instance is invaluable.
LOL at this .....
I'm one of those people who pick a class because it's generally not wanted in groups because it doesn't compare to them in term's of damage and what not. So I went with a GWF.
The general consencus is that people don't want you in a group, regardless of gearscore and skill. GWF's are just bad for 5man groups, hurr durr.
That is just plain and corrupt bull****.
I used to do something on wow back in the day of wrath of the lich king.
I played a paladin tank in a very competive guild, and in a top ranked guild.
I was decked out with all the bis tanking gear from ICC, but wait. Don't hate on me just yet. I'm not bragging.
This is something else. I was so tired about the gearscore requirements people put up, but as part of the guild I was in on the server we naturally got a lot of respect for our progressions and what not. And so I started making my own groups for raids on our offdays, just to raid and clear content, and what I did was. I banned anyone in the raid group of 25people to ever mention gearscore or anything of the like in chat, or to anyone in the raid through whispers and what not.
And when we had the group up, we challenged a group of people who had a gearscore requirement to a timed run.
They wanted people with full 25man normal gear to run ICC normal after the nerfs.(meaning full epic gear just to join the group, no mention about skill whatsoever.)
I asked people in my group to atleast have blues that allowed them to join heroic 5man dungeons, and to listen to what I said on teamspeak.(Meaning people in my group basically had no purples whatsoever, except for the odd crafted one.)
One guy recorded our event through ICC, and we ended up clearing ICC with zero whipes, and used 1 and half hour less than the guys decked out in full epic gear.
Conclusion, gear never matters as much as communication and or skill in a game.
People just refuse to accept that.
Doesn't seem a problem if these over geared players won't play with those who need the gear. If they stop doing them, nothing changes, except we stop hearing the spam for exp. people maybe.
If you were already excepted into the group and then kicked because you didn't meet the gear score then I would call that Pizz poor attitude on the leaders part and that person should be punished in some way, because that is pretty near a form of racism my book.
However if you know before trying to get into a party that the leader is looking for a particular GS then just look else-where for a group.
In the grand scheme of things this game hasen't been out that long, and I come online with a really close friend almost everyday for a few hours and we are only level 45, so these people that say they only have been playing for a week or so ????? and are level 60, and they got all these nice item sets........
Sounds pretty fishy to me????????? Maybe the Devs should look at these accounts and the items in them.....
Can you say....Exploit, ShortCut Farming, Ninja Looting, AD/AH exploiting.........
I think Cryptic needs to put up an " Elitist Server " where even the Gear prices are fit for a " God "
If you want to play a God then you have to Pay God-like prices.
Just A Thought.
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
They didn't take action against people who made 60 in a day through quest sharing or foundry spam. Essentially it told players "exploit early, exploit hard, and don't worry"
The rest was just taking advantage of Founders by doing **** like selling pvp weapons for a couple hundred thousand each.
The game design promotes doing it.
I don't queue solo for CN because I just don't have the hours it takes to do that place with brand new 9200 GS people. No hate, I just don't want to be in there 1/4 a day.
Takes me 6 days to level a toon to 60. That is storyline quests only.
Are you sure you mean ICC and not NAX? I have a real hard time believing that a PUG in blues could down Sindragosa or Arthas no matter how much skill the players had. Just not enough damage output. On the other hand, I do remember doing something similar to what you describe in Nax when that was still the end game raid and everyone still thought KT was tough.
Because you are the only ones who can kill the end boss....
Nevermind the fact that it only took a few days for many of them to get to level 60, plus a few minutes more at the AH buying all of their Epic gear.
Nevertheless ... we all bow down to their greatness and after the BoP patch they will all leave ... and no end bosses will ever be killed again.
/cries ...
Maybe then the designers will adjust the difficulty and let the 99% of the player population take a crack at it.
My post was meant as sarcasm Chrono lol
I am pretty sure the difficulty level of bosses is already adjusted for a group of "reasonably geared and skilled" players. MMO difficulty is usually designed to be completed on average performance. It would otherwise spawn a flurry of complaints from the "entitlement crowd."
I'm actually looking forward to do dungeons again once the elitist crowd are gone.
It would be nice if that whole "elitist mentality' was erased from the MMORPG genre. I understand that there are egotist that thrive on the whole "I am greater than thou" decease. But it baffles me how entire communities have been consumed by it. These are suppose to be games to be played for fun and this mentality has literally hijacked the fun out of these games for their own "i am a legend in my own mind" self-entitled gratification.
/sad
The Random Dungeon Queue system is exactly that! It's random! Sometimes you'll be in a group full of casuals, or people who don't care about GS, other times you will and they will whine that you're too low. That's just how it is and the only way to avoid them completely is to join a casual guild!
The whole Gearscore for Neverwinter is silly. why? cause ALL epic is BoE. If you have 12k Gear Score and bought it all, it doesn't make you better unless you have experience with your character (which some do and some don't)
I think the gearscore should be hidden and only use to get into instance OR even better, have a guardian fight similar to Secret world, that will unlock you to enter instance.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Yes ... it is a computer game after all. The program should be able to detect if you are properly geared to confront the level of difficulty required of the dungeon and if so allow entry. Sort of how we are not allowed to enter some dungeons until we reach a certain level. Really not rocket science. Why leave this decision for players to sort out?
I'm sorry the behavior of the "anti-elitist" people is just selfish. "I have a 8.3k GS but i want to be invited to a 11k party". What kind of entitlement is this? Why would you purposely drag the whole party down because of that? Most of the 11k people worked HARD for their gear(with the exception of big cash shoppers). I had to endure countless of bad runs with pugs when I was gearing up with lots of wipes and sometimes even not finishing the dungeon. You wanna solve your own problem? Gear up like everyone else did and stop qqing about not being invited to a party you have no place in it.
Easy way to avoid your own problems? Go start your own party where everyone is around your GS. Or do pvp and farm some seals go get higher GS. Getting around 9.8-10k is stupidly easy.
Edit: To the OP: part of your problems is just because you rolled a GWF. Very few people actually want your class. Your pure aoe dps is not ever gonna make you more desirable over a second CW. CW is just too good.
In all seriousness though...
Gearscores or Armory pages. I guess people just want to be able to stand on really tall pedastals over everyone else who they consider to be "commoners"...
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*