The problem I've noticed is I have had some blue items of lower level give me a higher gear score than green items of higher level even though the green item has more points in the same stats.
I haven't paid much attention to my GS since my two highest level characters are in their high 40's and low 50's but I thought this was a little odd.
Jorm
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booseratiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
hey guys so im reading this post and im getting really discouraged. to my understanding the official release date is June 20th right?
if players are experiencing this amount of elitism before the game has even officially launched, where does that leave people like me?
please assist.
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kerlaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
hey guys so im reading this post and im getting really discouraged. to my understanding the official release date is June 20th right?
if players are experiencing this amount of elitism before the game has even officially launched, where does that leave people like me?
please assist.
Its not too bad until u hit 60 and start T2 dungeons. I think once they figure out what they are going to do with dungeon loot drops NEED/GREED-PoEqui/POPickup and thus limiting the flood of High End gear on the AH the elitism might settle down alittle.
I mean why does someone really need 13k+ for a dungeon that the dev's built for 9200 GS. Guess more ppl are trying to find every little way to remove the challenge from the game.
hey guys so im reading this post and im getting really discouraged. to my understanding the official release date is June 20th right?
if players are experiencing this amount of elitism before the game has even officially launched, where does that leave people like me?
please assist.
Don't be, it isn't an issue at all.
We have the random queue system - and not sure if I have just been extremely lucky in the make up of the groups I have joined in the last week, or if it has been improved - which will allow you to do the content as it becomes available to you.
You're also at liberty to put a group together yourself, as is everyone screaming "elitism" in this thread.
If you prefer cliques, join a guild.
Personally, I am happy enough with the queue system. I have acquired about 50% of my gear in this way, with more in storage for when changes might make those stored items more viable. Although I still have a couple of Epics to finish, I am confident this will happen in time and by then I will have the experience and gear score (which isn't infinite) to choose to join the 'elites' should I wish to.
I am willing to bet that 95% of the people calling for "experienced only" or "12K+GS 4/4" etc. are DPS players who mash buttons and have little skill. They probably, for the most part, have no idea the actual skill it takes to be a good tank, healer or CCer in a group or raid. They have played with skilled players and find it easy to DPS when all else goes right. (i.e. they are healed, adds are controlled, boss is tanked)
It is an ARPGMMO , plus people find it fun to mash buttons and win - who are you to blame them for having fun ?
The only inspect option should be "Meets Requirements" or "Does Not Meet Requirements". Its no ones business that My Devoted Clerics entire 13K gear score is based on hit points and defense and they would be better off drinking a level 1 heal pot then receiving my best heal ....
I like the concept of min gear score, but the practice is pathetic. No one should ever be able to look at someone else's character sheet.
Hey here is an idea, charge 1000 Zen to look at someone else's character sheet. The person who is being looked at could receive 100 zen and PW could pocket 900 zen. Kind of a Pay to Be an A-Hole Policy. If its worth $ 10.00 to you to know what sword I swing, then by al means, take a look, otherwise worry about yourself.
Rofl , actually this is the best idea so far on the forums - everyone wins
I laugh when I see on zone chat: "Group lf pro [insert class here] we are all BiS, whisp your gs". MMO's communities are always full of elitist ******bags. Many of them have left my guild some time ago because they preferred exploit farm instead of helping other guildies. No one misses them.
BiS would make some sense but not in a game where BiS you can buy, never seeing any end-game dungeon.
If the dungeons itself spam you with so many ads that unable to see ****, what about the ****ty classes?
During my lvling I have seen enough ppl unable to complete the normal dungeons, so go figure at the Epic ones. Some T2 need some balancing the damage, CC, ads is too **** good for your whatever GS you have.
rofl this game should go back to Alpha and stop going forward with current status.
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lopezjmMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Since GS has no actual statistical basis I work off the assumption that anyone who is demanding anything higher than around 9.5k (give or take depending on class) is a part of the same crowd who thinks it is a great idea to stack 4500 crit on a cleric.
Some people see elitism as a problem, I see it as filtering out people I wouldn't want to play with anyway.
GS... for me it just show the quality of your Gear... if its rare semi-rare ou epic rare. But nothing more... lets say... I have a TR 9.6k its good its bad?? I dont know, what i know is in most dungeons i have seen the 2nd TR sometimes with lower GS do the boss while i was there dead... my gear score was higher but i didnt know how boss skills works... making my gear score useless.
the same i have seen with CW low GS CW playing good doing huge piles of adds and keep them come and go.. and other high GS doing since target making the fight hard.
WHY? easy i go from 1 to 60 with quest line in 1 week or less depends of the time you have to play. then u spend 100$ in the game u buy your fet T2 and lv7 or 8 enchant... your GS rock you dont.
how its possible to go to a T2 and have to explain the CW how to use shield and repel all adds around?
If its 8.3gs to enter you should know how to play when u hit 60 even with green. same with ppl that run the all dungeon and never chance skills. well im a TR for bosses i use 1 set for add between another and for some bosses a 2set of skills.
so GS its nothing... its like give a ferrari to a 18y old with a fresh driver licence and let me run against him on my 10.000€ car and on the 2nd lap im 1st and he crashed....
As a tool GS might be useful but given that the game reccomends gear based on god knows what basis it's a tool that is more than likely broken. It's a number that tells you nothing but a score so is as much use as the ravings on metacritic.
The number will never tell you that person x has run a place dozens of times but has had poor luck on drops or rolls whereas someone else has deep pockets, bought their gear off the AH and has never set foot in a dungeon even while levelling thanks to the speed of it and queue lengths.
WoW had gearscore, no idea if it still does, and thankfully there was an addon to "break" the score. There big numbers could be gained by having pvp gear and it never took into account whether an item was any good or not. I knew more that a few people who carried a set of gear to let them hit a high enough score to join pugs and then once in they'd change into their everyday stuff.
How many times does a high scoring person have to die from standing in a puddle of obvious death before people realise that the real tool in the gearscore situation is the one that relies on it as the yardstick for group forming.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
It's not primarily gearscore that causes these kinds of problems.
It's the fact the game has utterly garbage group tools. When the only reasonable way to form a group that can complete content is by spamming zonechat and only taking high GS players - thats EXACTLY what players are gona do.
The devs enforce this type of behavior because of the tools they give us to group.
If they were better, strong/top geared players like myself and others would very gladly take newer players all the time.
As it stands, it's simply not going to happen.
I've tried it MANY MANY times. Taking unknown low GS players to T2s. 99% of the time it's a terrible player that contributes nothing (and in some of the harder T2s, that can mean wasting a ton of time). Like it or not, GS to some small degree indicates the player has a -chance- of being non-terrible, and thus - less of a risk.
If I had a decent lfm/lfg system to work with, I could far better identify pug players to find the newer ones that are worth my time.
More details in my thread about this in my signature.
You do understand though, that you need people to spend cash on the game, otherwise it wont be profitable enough... and if there are so many people who are annoyed at that, make a guild and voila.. run CN with uber skill and 9200 gs!
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insomeatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited June 2013
Okay look, skill is way more important than gear score we all agree BUT there is no way to tell the skill level of the random people you can group up with. It's not rocket science the higher the gear score of a person the higher chance that this person is dedicated and has had more experience with the dungeons (NOTE I say higher chance it not always the case), you are effectively maximising your chances to get a decent group and even if they are bad at least the gear can add a bit of a buffer to make up for their lack of skill. The t2 dungeons do seem a bit over tuned for the GS they require (making it more of a minimal requirement) and all the recent class nerfs making this even more necessary.
I don't understand the self entitlement of so many people in this thread, just how do you think most of us got our high GS (not talking about the minority that spends $$ to buy it). It was mostly through running with same low geared people and battled through the content without having 10+ GS characters carry us and win the dungeon for us. I have had more than my share of fail runs and incompetent people wasting hours and accomplishing nothing. Now that I've run most t2 dungeons what feels like hundreds of times I would much rather prefer to run it smoothly and not having to suffer the same mistakes cause my party is new or because I do more damage on my healing cleric than the 8.6K CW and Rogue in my party and we can’t kill the final boss as a result (this happened way to many times to still be funny).
At the end of the day due to my work situation I can only play during the weekend and my time is precious to me, I will do anything in my power to get the most competent group and make sure my experience is not filled with frustration and wasted time especially during Dungeon Delves which is the only small chance I can get the set piece I am doing the dungeon for.
You do not pay my time in this game and have no right telling me how I should and should not play this game. If I don't want to carry your lazy *** and actually want to enjoy my time that doesn't make me an elitist e-peen stroking jerk standing on a pedestal looking down at you. If you were in any way shape of form looking to progress in the endgame it would take minimal effort to realise you can get the PvP set (which I still use) in a couple of hours and the rings, belt etc can be purchased off the AH for so cheap you can do it the second you hit lvl 60 (without spending any real money at all), that alone will take your GS to 9K+.
This kind of MMOs will always have all sorts of people playing it, from the very hardcore and dedicated to the very casual, time limited or lazy so what is the point of starting a thread whining about the people that play the game differently than you. If you think so strongly of such players then you never have to play with them and you will still have plenty of grouping options through the auto queue as well as making your own groups with similarly geared people as you. What I am trying to say is that this so called “elitism” and gearscore requirement by a small percent of the population doesn’t affect you in any way, so what is the point of this thread other than just to complain about people who share a different opinion than yours?
The Elitism in this game keeps increasing as time goes on and classes are nerfed as dungeons get harder. I thought my big battle with this game was just overall class balance now players will not play with you if you do not have 12k gearscore plus the "right" weapon enchant.
This happeend to me today I was kicked from a CN group as a GWF with 11k gearscore and Vorpal enchantment because I did not have Greater Plague fire Enchant.
You would think any 11k GS character would be a vaule to a dungeon with a 9200 GS reguirement not to mention one with a Vorpal sword.
Part of the reason is these dungeons have gotten alot harder since DC, CW and TR got nerfed. The fighter buffs are nice but do not make up for the nerfs the other classes had to face.
I would like to see GS completely done away with. And since Elitism will never go away completely I suggest this in its place. Once you have completed A set amount of T1 and T2 dungeons you characters name changes from white to green. When you hace completed Lots of T2's and Geared up your GS to a certain point your characters name becomes Blue signifing you are Ready for CN. And Wehn you have completeled a rediculous amount of CNs and have purples in every slot and runestones your name should become Purple. This should be so hard to get that you will never see an all Purple team of elitsm players. That they should always be accepting blue players.
If you can't get rid of gearscores just dont let other players "see" your gearscore. It would amuse me greatly if the GS of another player just said "Over 9000" and that is all the info you could get from another player. This way player skill and expereince will matter more than GS.
Well, for me personally I'd run with a GWF. But I'd prefer a titan gwf with lightning enchant ;p otherwise I'd rather just take another CW.
I don't think you can chastise people for advertising for what THEY want. If I want people with 12k gearscore, just don't reply if you don't have it. I can be elitist and you can not join a group of elitists, or you can hurl abuse at me in pink text out of the blue because I have very high requirements.
Now, if you queue and get kicked that's another problem. But to be honest, if you really want to go in a group who you can trust/don't require the high GS etc, get a good guild or solid group.
You do understand though, that you need people to spend cash on the game, otherwise it wont be profitable enough... and if there are so many people who are annoyed at that, make a guild and voila.. run CN with uber skill and 9200 gs!
Or you could just gear up, find a group, run CN and have full t2/ancients like myself without spending a penny. Enjoy not knowing anything about what you just posted an opinion on.
Whatever happened to people running dungeons for fun(albeit to complete the content as well)? Why must people insist on certain gear and enchants. Like it'll make a difference between life and death. Stop it.
bayne3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Gearscore is related to power also and increases as your power increases. Take a look at the GF with the 100% from shield talent. Let some mobs hit your shield and watch your gearscore lower.
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Whatever happened to people running dungeons for fun(albeit to complete the content as well)? Why must people insist on certain gear and enchants. Like it'll make a difference between life and death. Stop it.
Because this is the "new age" gamer were everything must be taken seriously and fun is a 4 letter word. They want gear scores, full loot PvP (if they could) all while being able to overpower everything (PvP included) with their massive gear, and sword of mine is bigger than yours +10/physical enhancement enchant, skill be damned.
Comments
I haven't paid much attention to my GS since my two highest level characters are in their high 40's and low 50's but I thought this was a little odd.
Jorm
if players are experiencing this amount of elitism before the game has even officially launched, where does that leave people like me?
please assist.
Its not too bad until u hit 60 and start T2 dungeons. I think once they figure out what they are going to do with dungeon loot drops NEED/GREED-PoEqui/POPickup and thus limiting the flood of High End gear on the AH the elitism might settle down alittle.
I mean why does someone really need 13k+ for a dungeon that the dev's built for 9200 GS. Guess more ppl are trying to find every little way to remove the challenge from the game.
Don't be, it isn't an issue at all.
We have the random queue system - and not sure if I have just been extremely lucky in the make up of the groups I have joined in the last week, or if it has been improved - which will allow you to do the content as it becomes available to you.
You're also at liberty to put a group together yourself, as is everyone screaming "elitism" in this thread.
If you prefer cliques, join a guild.
Personally, I am happy enough with the queue system. I have acquired about 50% of my gear in this way, with more in storage for when changes might make those stored items more viable. Although I still have a couple of Epics to finish, I am confident this will happen in time and by then I will have the experience and gear score (which isn't infinite) to choose to join the 'elites' should I wish to.
It is an ARPGMMO , plus people find it fun to mash buttons and win - who are you to blame them for having fun ?
Rofl , actually this is the best idea so far on the forums - everyone wins
BiS would make some sense but not in a game where BiS you can buy, never seeing any end-game dungeon.
During my lvling I have seen enough ppl unable to complete the normal dungeons, so go figure at the Epic ones. Some T2 need some balancing the damage, CC, ads is too **** good for your whatever GS you have.
rofl this game should go back to Alpha and stop going forward with current status.
I totally agree with this and if I may add "coordination" to the statement above.
Some people see elitism as a problem, I see it as filtering out people I wouldn't want to play with anyway.
the same i have seen with CW low GS CW playing good doing huge piles of adds and keep them come and go.. and other high GS doing since target making the fight hard.
WHY? easy i go from 1 to 60 with quest line in 1 week or less depends of the time you have to play. then u spend 100$ in the game u buy your fet T2 and lv7 or 8 enchant... your GS rock you dont.
how its possible to go to a T2 and have to explain the CW how to use shield and repel all adds around?
If its 8.3gs to enter you should know how to play when u hit 60 even with green. same with ppl that run the all dungeon and never chance skills. well im a TR for bosses i use 1 set for add between another and for some bosses a 2set of skills.
so GS its nothing... its like give a ferrari to a 18y old with a fresh driver licence and let me run against him on my 10.000€ car and on the 2nd lap im 1st and he crashed....
The number will never tell you that person x has run a place dozens of times but has had poor luck on drops or rolls whereas someone else has deep pockets, bought their gear off the AH and has never set foot in a dungeon even while levelling thanks to the speed of it and queue lengths.
WoW had gearscore, no idea if it still does, and thankfully there was an addon to "break" the score. There big numbers could be gained by having pvp gear and it never took into account whether an item was any good or not. I knew more that a few people who carried a set of gear to let them hit a high enough score to join pugs and then once in they'd change into their everyday stuff.
How many times does a high scoring person have to die from standing in a puddle of obvious death before people realise that the real tool in the gearscore situation is the one that relies on it as the yardstick for group forming.
It's the fact the game has utterly garbage group tools. When the only reasonable way to form a group that can complete content is by spamming zonechat and only taking high GS players - thats EXACTLY what players are gona do.
The devs enforce this type of behavior because of the tools they give us to group.
If they were better, strong/top geared players like myself and others would very gladly take newer players all the time.
As it stands, it's simply not going to happen.
I've tried it MANY MANY times. Taking unknown low GS players to T2s. 99% of the time it's a terrible player that contributes nothing (and in some of the harder T2s, that can mean wasting a ton of time). Like it or not, GS to some small degree indicates the player has a -chance- of being non-terrible, and thus - less of a risk.
If I had a decent lfm/lfg system to work with, I could far better identify pug players to find the newer ones that are worth my time.
More details in my thread about this in my signature.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
I don't understand the self entitlement of so many people in this thread, just how do you think most of us got our high GS (not talking about the minority that spends $$ to buy it). It was mostly through running with same low geared people and battled through the content without having 10+ GS characters carry us and win the dungeon for us. I have had more than my share of fail runs and incompetent people wasting hours and accomplishing nothing. Now that I've run most t2 dungeons what feels like hundreds of times I would much rather prefer to run it smoothly and not having to suffer the same mistakes cause my party is new or because I do more damage on my healing cleric than the 8.6K CW and Rogue in my party and we can’t kill the final boss as a result (this happened way to many times to still be funny).
At the end of the day due to my work situation I can only play during the weekend and my time is precious to me, I will do anything in my power to get the most competent group and make sure my experience is not filled with frustration and wasted time especially during Dungeon Delves which is the only small chance I can get the set piece I am doing the dungeon for.
You do not pay my time in this game and have no right telling me how I should and should not play this game. If I don't want to carry your lazy *** and actually want to enjoy my time that doesn't make me an elitist e-peen stroking jerk standing on a pedestal looking down at you. If you were in any way shape of form looking to progress in the endgame it would take minimal effort to realise you can get the PvP set (which I still use) in a couple of hours and the rings, belt etc can be purchased off the AH for so cheap you can do it the second you hit lvl 60 (without spending any real money at all), that alone will take your GS to 9K+.
This kind of MMOs will always have all sorts of people playing it, from the very hardcore and dedicated to the very casual, time limited or lazy so what is the point of starting a thread whining about the people that play the game differently than you. If you think so strongly of such players then you never have to play with them and you will still have plenty of grouping options through the auto queue as well as making your own groups with similarly geared people as you. What I am trying to say is that this so called “elitism” and gearscore requirement by a small percent of the population doesn’t affect you in any way, so what is the point of this thread other than just to complain about people who share a different opinion than yours?
For some reason GW gear lists higher in gearscore, mine was at near 10k in all greens when i hit 60, had better than my CW who was in t1/t2 purps.
I think it has to do with the feats that allow you to convert Defense to extra Power, etc. Also additional HP means extra gear score.
Well, for me personally I'd run with a GWF. But I'd prefer a titan gwf with lightning enchant ;p otherwise I'd rather just take another CW.
I don't think you can chastise people for advertising for what THEY want. If I want people with 12k gearscore, just don't reply if you don't have it. I can be elitist and you can not join a group of elitists, or you can hurl abuse at me in pink text out of the blue because I have very high requirements.
Now, if you queue and get kicked that's another problem. But to be honest, if you really want to go in a group who you can trust/don't require the high GS etc, get a good guild or solid group.
Or you could just gear up, find a group, run CN and have full t2/ancients like myself without spending a penny. Enjoy not knowing anything about what you just posted an opinion on.
Havent played in two.
Im a TR.
Easy is easy,
Because this is the "new age" gamer were everything must be taken seriously and fun is a 4 letter word. They want gear scores, full loot PvP (if they could) all while being able to overpower everything (PvP included) with their massive gear, and sword of mine is bigger than yours +10/physical enhancement enchant, skill be damned.