What your failing to realize is every million sold on the AH sinks 100k + posting fees, meaning it gets rid of AD so its not piling up and up like in other MMOs. Now add into that the salvaging which will add thousands of refined AD per hour...
GG, inflation be thy name. Economy destroyed.
Oh but hey you can still spend your AD on ZEN ITEMS!!!
Also gear does not symbolize skill, skill symbolizes skill. Even in MMOs with BoP people still can buy items, only now it turns to behind the counter deals that don't sink AD.
Well, after much irritation. i finally found MY fun. whatever will come will come...
ME? I simply just got into a guild (which i said would happen if this changes came) That are ALL decked out maxed level 60s with full enchants and gear. 200+ strong members and growing.
Have fun NEW players in open PVP gauntyl and regular pvp. Also have FUN being undergeared and running epic dungeouns.
Mine and me will have our own fun^^ lets see how the new players like it. better HIDE IN A HOLE somewhere and don't think of ANY pvp content^^
GL gearing up^^ Bye.
Really?
An entire guild, 200+ strong, of max level players with full Epic gears and enchants ... and the game hasn't even been released yet?
Yup, nothing wrong at all. Only the new players or those NOT geared gonna find something wrong soon...
Outstanding!
/two thumbs up
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
There are 2 sides to the coin, here:
1. Those hardcore players who ran dungeons innumerable times didn't need the gear they got for themselves, so they'd sell it on the AH. As supply increased, prices dropped, and so even non-hardcore players could afford good gear.
2. Limiting gear to those that actually run the dungeons means that, going forward, those with the gear *would* have earned it by playing.
I hope that regular rare gear that drops, which IIRC will remain BoE, and perhaps be made a little more available. I also hope that the devs consider allowing us to buy non-class gear from the seal vendors.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Yup, nothing wrong at all. Only the new players or those NOT geared gonna find something wrong soon...
Or the other way, if it remais the same, they will find something wrong when the fresh new epic item will all sell for 10+ millions and the gold spammers will become a visible majority in the game.
I hope that regular rare gear that drops, which IIRC will remain BoE, and perhaps be made a little more available. I also hope that the devs consider allowing us to buy non-class gear from the seal vendors.
What would be the point? Those are slated to be BoP as well.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
What would be the point? Those are slated to be BoP as well.
Oh ****! I just re-read the first post and you're right. That stinks! I can't even farm seals as a source of AD income? And even upgrading some gear via professions will make them BoP?!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Or the other way, if it remais the same, they will find something wrong when the fresh new epic item will all sell for 10+ millions and the gold spammers will become a visible majority in the game.
Actually, I think if it would have the reverse effect because all of the epic items will sell for 10 AD due to the market being flooded with them. Remember the law of supply and demand. The more plentiful an item is = less demand = cost less. The less plentiful and item is = more demand = cost more.
Or the other way, if it remais the same, they will find something wrong when the fresh new epic item will all sell for 10+ millions and the gold spammers will become a visible majority in the game.
But if it remains the same. The fresh new epics will be very expensive in the first week, then 2nd week as more ppl farm it, will become slightly expensive, by the third week, will become normal priced.
So new players would have to w8 about a month to BUY a reasonable new epic...rather than farming half a year+.....
I understand ppl's argument about, "highest gear must be hard" But the way it is now. Everyone does have higher gear, and granted it's not "special" but the playing field is pretty much EVEN, with ppl able to challenge each other reasonably well.
If this change comes true....There will be existing players, all geared up...just massacring new undergeared players who just won't be able to match up....
It's fun for awhile for the elites...but even THAT will lose it's fun after awhile...whats so fun about stomping someone into the ground and i don't even lose half of my hp....
But...what to do? They want the game this way.....Beyond our control...:(
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
Actually, I think if it would have the reverse effect because all of the epic items will sell for 10 AD due to the market being flooded with them. Remember the law of supply and demand. The more plentiful an item is = less demand = cost less. The less plentiful and item is = more demand = cost more.
thats right.
In a free market where only the market set the price, we add some monopoly or the price are set by people who can actually buy all the market, they pretty much own the economy and they can set their price, some people might undercut them, but they would buy it to resell it unless the supply is so high and cheap, making it impossible to do so. But by this time, their goal will be achieve and they would have farm enough to cover their expense fee, to repeat the trick at a next tier of content release.
But if it remains the same. The fresh new epics will be very expensive in the first week, then 2nd week as more ppl farm it, will become slightly expensive, by the third week, will become normal priced.
So new players would have to w8 about a month to BUY a reasonable new epic...rather than farming half a year+.....
I understand ppl's argument about, "highest gear must be hard" But the way it is now. Everyone does have higher gear, and granted it's not "special" but the playing field is pretty much EVEN, with ppl able to challenge each other reasonably well.
If this change comes true....There will be existing players, all geared up...just massacring new undergeared players who just won't be able to match up....
It's fun for awhile for the elites...but even THAT will lose it's fun after awhile...whats so fun about stomping someone into the ground and i don't even lose half of my hp....
But...what to do? They want the game this way.....Beyond our control...:(
I totally agree with you, i'm not all in for BoP, it just becoming a necessity at this point because of their lack of perception, badly conceived economy and because they didn't react sooner. It's unfortunate for the new players, i don't hold the players who abused it responsible, i blame Cryptic/PW. They were not prepared and didn't anticipate how their system would fail because they push the game so much, while enjoying the money stacking in their bank account, until they realized an epic item drops was actually more expensive than their premium cash shop item, and gold spammers stole a good % of their income.
Finally! I'm so sick of having "Geared" players who have no idea how to play. Earn your gear. Don't just buy it. This will be an amazing change that will clean up the player base.
0
vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Finally! I'm so sick of having "Geared" players who have no idea how to play. Earn your gear. Don't just buy it. This will be an amazing change that will clean up the player base.
So then you'll just queue with players who don't know how to play and don't have gear since you can queue for T2s in pvp gear and a couple rings?
Your problem isn't other people and what gear they have, so don't be surprised if this change goes through and it doesn't solve it.
Another Idea would be to Make Epic Dungeons have a 1day cooldown and keep everything BOE. That would slow gear into the economy and drive up prices. Then people wouldn't be able to hit 60 and fully epic off the AH with 150k AD (est)
Finally! I'm so sick of having "Geared" players who have no idea how to play. Earn your gear. Don't just buy it. This will be an amazing change that will clean up the player base.
Clean up? It's going to do nothing about the hordes of people who bought all their gear. It just means there won't be as many new ones.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Another Idea would be to Make Epic Dungeons have a 1day cooldown and keep everything BOE. That would slow gear into the economy and drive up prices. Then people wouldn't be able to hit 60 and fully epic off the AH with 150k AD (est)
1 day cd, tier loot 100% chance from boss, and no more t1 in t2 chests. Would be a nice experience.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
This is bad, very very bad. Think about the people who works full-time, comes home to play the game, but hey they can't do T2 dungeon runs because they aren't geared enough. Why aren't they geared enough? Because they don't have the time to spend grinding for gears and they can't spend their real life money to buy the gears off AH because the items are bind-on-pickup.
This game is hanging on a thin line at the moment. I hope it doesn't cross over to the unplayable state.
The BoP implementation is an interesting proposal, it is proposed as a rally towards equality when it is really a pay to unlock. I appreciate the fact the team wants to revisit the issue of loot. My problem is that by implementing these changes Neverwinter has finally made the masqueraded shift to become truly Pay to Win. If you are a free player who loves Neverwinter, please read this through and think about what it will mean for you.
Why is BoP making Neverwinter pay to win? Many F2Pers have fervently argued that BoP changes mean it’s LESS pay to win because you can’t just buy all your gear on the AH instantly after hitting 60 with AD. You gotta earn your gear, which means gear reflects experience. Right?
That very argument is in fact a finely guised red herring. T2 gear is only the entry point to the end game. Provided a player have enough desire and tenacity to grind through hours of repetitive content to stay in the game, they will get to T2 BiS gear. But the real addition you want to T2 gear is an augment pet (Ioun Stone of Allure/Cat), maybe a faster mount (especially with mounts enabled in current PvP and Gauntlgrym, but I digress) and coalescent wands for your runes and enchants. At 4-10K RAD per dungeon item farmed, you’ll need more than 120 purple items to get a cat at the fixed 960000 AD price. Even if you fill your daily RAD quota, that’s going to be at least 40 days saving exclusively for the cat. Then you would want to start the process all over again for coalescent wands. You will be making enchants from scratch because you've exhausted your savings.
Unless new ways of earning/exchanging AD magically open up (which I doubt), this effectively makes end game enchants and pets pay to win again, wiping collective player efforts in the last few weeks to make wards affordable to everyone (currently you can trade wands with AD/gold/keys/profession assets etc). While some may argue enchantment prices will drop due to dwindling currency, coalescent wand is a Zen item whose prices is NOT going to decrease significantly and will always hover around the zen-AD conversion price equivalence, which is far above 24K RAD per day. If you want to slot at least 12 rank 7s, plus gear on your pets etc that’s at least how many wands you may look at getting into. Never mind the AD fee to unsocket them should you actually want to change gear (depending on how that price compares with a new enchant).
If you don’t mind buying zen (I don’t have anything against those who do), you can buy the ioun stone, an epic mount and as many wands as you want for a comparatively less painless price than 40+ days of farming. Then once you get all your T2s you’re a god amongst men.
Now ask yourself. Is that pay to win? Currently many F2P players have earned all their AD, gear and zen items by trading and being creative with the market and their skills. After making items BoP, buying such items with cash from the Zen store becomes almost the exclusive avenue as a realistic means of obtaining such items. If you've stuck with the game that long, yes perhaps it's deserving to put some money towards the game, but that's not part of the argument for those who want to go exclusively F2P.
For the salvage system to have a chance, please reconsider and increase the salvage prices in conjunction to the daily RAD limit. (Along with some of the many other good proposals in this thread). This should be benchmarked against the cat/ coalescent wards to find the middle ground to appease both zen store supporters and free to play heroes.
In conclusion the BoP change will only DELAY the wallet warriors transition to T2. They will have to grind their one set but once they did that they can buy all ther mounts, runes and pets. At that point F2P players are PUNISHED severely as there is now a much high time cost towards both getting to a good T2 set and saving up AD for augment pets and wands.
There are further ramifications about this process including increased player greed, further caste/elitism division between T2 geared players, zen/AD transactions and the motivation for doing dungeons. But please, for the longevity of this game and the inclusion and retention of all its gaming population subsets (casual, serious, hardcore, zen supporters, f2p players) please allow this change to not punish one group excessively over another.
TL;DR: T2 gear is only the beginning of the end game. The real grind is for coalescent wards and augment pets which have a set price. Current Salvage prices is too low and will as such severly disadvantage players not using the zen shop. This in my opinion will unbalance and polarise the game populations and shatter the gaming community.
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
The BoP implementation is an interesting proposal, it is proposed as a rally towards equality when it is really a pay to unlock. I appreciate the fact the team wants to revisit the issue of loot. My problem is that by implementing these changes Neverwinter has finally made the masqueraded shift to become truly Pay to Win. If you are a free player who loves Neverwinter, please read this through and think about what it will mean for you.
Why is BoP making Neverwinter pay to win? Many F2Pers have fervently argued that BoP changes mean it’s LESS pay to win because you can’t just buy all your gear on the AH instantly after hitting 60 with AD. You gotta earn your gear, which means gear reflects experience. Right?
That very argument is in fact a finely guised red herring. T2 gear is only the entry point to the end game. Provided a player have enough desire and tenacity to grind through hours of repetitive content to stay in the game, they will get to T2 BiS gear. But the real addition you want to T2 gear is an augment pet (Ioun Stone of Allure/Cat), maybe a faster mount (especially with mounts enabled in current PvP and Gauntlgrym, but I digress) and coalescent wands for your runes and enchants. At 4-10K RAD per dungeon item farmed, you’ll need more than 120 purple items to get a cat at the fixed 960000 AD price. Even if you fill your daily RAD quota, that’s going to be at least 40 days saving exclusively for the cat. Then you would want to start the process all over again for coalescent wands. You will be making enchants from scratch because you've exhausted your savings.
Unless new ways of earning/exchanging AD magically open up (which I doubt), this effectively makes end game enchants and pets pay to win again, wiping collective player efforts in the last few weeks to make wards affordable to everyone (currently you can trade wands with AD/gold/keys/profession assets etc). While some may argue enchantment prices will drop due to dwindling currency, coalescent wand is a Zen item whose prices is NOT going to decrease significantly and will always hover around the zen-AD conversion price equivalence, which is far above 24K RAD per day. If you want to slot at least 12 rank 7s, plus gear on your pets etc that’s at least how many wands you may look at getting into. Never mind the AD fee to unsocket them should you actually want to change gear (depending on how that price compares with a new enchant).
If you don’t mind buying zen (I don’t have anything against those who do), you can buy the ioun stone, an epic mount and as many wands as you want for a comparatively less painless price than 40+ days of farming. Then once you get all your T2s you’re a god amongst men.
Now ask yourself. Is that pay to win? Currently many F2P players have earned all their AD, gear and zen items by trading and being creative with the market and their skills. After making items BoP, buying such items with cash from the Zen store becomes almost the exclusive avenue as a realistic means of obtaining such items. If you've stuck with the game that long, yes perhaps it's deserving to put some money towards the game, but that's not part of the argument for those who want to go exclusively F2P.
For the salvage system to have a chance, please reconsider and increase the salvage prices in conjunction to the daily RAD limit. (Along with some of the many other good proposals in this thread). This should be benchmarked against the cat/ coalescent wards to find the middle ground to appease both zen store supporters and free to play heroes.
In conclusion the BoP change will only DELAY the wallet warriors transition to T2. They will have to grind their one set but once they did that they can buy all ther mounts, runes and pets. At that point F2P players are PUNISHED severely as there is now a much high time cost towards both getting to a good T2 set and saving up AD for augment pets and wands.
There are further ramifications about this process including increased player greed, further caste/elitism division between T2 geared players, zen/AD transactions and the motivation for doing dungeons. But please, for the longevity of this game and the inclusion and retention of all its gaming population subsets (casual, serious, hardcore, zen supporters, f2p players) please allow this change to not punish one group excessively over another.
TL;DR: T2 gear is only the beginning of the end game. The real grind is for coalescent wards and augment pets which have a set price. Current Salvage prices is too low and will as such severly disadvantage players not using the zen shop. This in my opinion will unbalance and polarise the game populations and shatter the gaming community.
This is bad, very very bad. Think about the people who works full-time, comes home to play the game, but hey they can't do T2 dungeon runs because they aren't geared enough. Why aren't they geared enough? Because they don't have the time to spend grinding for gears and they can't spend their real life money to buy the gears off AH because the items are bind-on-pickup.
This game is hanging on a thin line at the moment. I hope it doesn't cross over to the unplayable state.
If you have no time to run t1 in the first place to gear up for t2, not much point in thinking on t2 dungeons.
Personally am tired of people that think they can buy gearscore to run dungeons, and if this update weed most of them out then ill be happy, my ignore list is mainly composed of gold spamers and really bad puggers that manage to buy t2 gear and were a colossal waste of time, most of them didnt even run the dungeon normal before trying epic, i dont even know how they manage to get to lv 60 in the first place.
Finally! I'm so sick of having "Geared" players who have no idea how to play. Earn your gear. Don't just buy it. This will be an amazing change that will clean up the player base.
Yeah, clear it out .... get rid of three-querters of the players....including a significant chunk of those who pay $$$ to allow the game to exist.
I am getting really tired of the childish and elitist attitude of some people here, but don't worry, if this policy is implemented, casual players like myself will leave....Neverwinter was attractive because it seemed a change from endless grinding MMOs - but if they pulll a "bait-and-switch" and make this just like many other games, I see no reason to hang around.
And don't forget - if a large chunk of the (paying) playerbase leaves, and new players realize they have a much harder time than existing ones, you are going to see the game fade away in a surprisingly short time as most players leave and new ones do not replace them.
Another Idea would be to Make Epic Dungeons have a 1day cooldown and keep everything BOE. That would slow gear into the economy and drive up prices. Then people wouldn't be able to hit 60 and fully epic off the AH with 150k AD (est)
Ignoring your earlier post......THIS^ actually sounds like a good idea.
It will stop ppl from getting it too easy, but ppl can STILL get it.
Sounds good to me.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Ignoring your earlier post......THIS^ actually sounds like a good idea.
It will stop ppl from getting it too easy, but ppl can STILL get it.
Sounds good to me.
They could also make it that you must have had completed a dungeon in order to don gear from it.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
They could also make it that you must have had completed a dungeon in order to don gear from it.
Hmmm......I dunno much about coding and tech stuff...But if this is possible to do....Then it also sounds good.
Make all equips gained from a dungeoun ONLY USABLE if that character has completed the dungeoun it came from. So as long as i complete the dungeoun, i can use whatever would drop from it. That would stop ppl's argument of "you bought it and you didn't even step into a dungeon" and also still allow us to buy things and not depend on luck of drops.
This idea of yours + the one day cool down on epics.......I think we might have the solution here!:)
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
Anything that removes the random factor gets my vote. Im not opposed to earning gear. Im just opposed to having my character and progression held hostage by the RNG.
Well that, and still being able to earn cash after being fully geared. There has to be a carrot on the stick for everyone. Gear or not.
Edited. forgot to put a, not, in there. totally changed what I was trying to say.
Anything that removes the random factor gets my vote. Im opposed to earning gear. Im just opposed to having my character and progression held hostage by the RNG.
Well that, and still being able to earn cash after being fully geared. There has to be a carrot on the stick for everyone. Gear or not.
I think no matter if we prefer BoE or BoP it all come down this. I couldn't be against it.
Here's an idea, how about just leave it the way it is? With the graying out of need on non-class items, that solved ninja looting. With the nerfs, the epic dungeons are even harder to get through. Fix the exploits and short cuts and a lot less people will be able to get gear. The reason the AH was flooded was because of cheats not because of BoE. BoP is stupid, unnecessary and irritating. Just because "other MMOs" did it that way really is not a good argument. A lot of other MMOs have more accessible alternative ways of participating in the economy. In this game, one of the main sources of income is being able to sell the extra things you find in Dungeons. Cryptic, please do not make this change. Just because some players exploited doesn't mean the rest of the player base should be punished.
Comments
So 1 million minus 100k equal 0.
I failed to realize it.
Really?
An entire guild, 200+ strong, of max level players with full Epic gears and enchants ... and the game hasn't even been released yet?
Wonderful.
Nothing wrong with that picture at all.
Yup, nothing wrong at all. Only the new players or those NOT geared gonna find something wrong soon...
Outstanding!
/two thumbs up
1. Those hardcore players who ran dungeons innumerable times didn't need the gear they got for themselves, so they'd sell it on the AH. As supply increased, prices dropped, and so even non-hardcore players could afford good gear.
2. Limiting gear to those that actually run the dungeons means that, going forward, those with the gear *would* have earned it by playing.
I hope that regular rare gear that drops, which IIRC will remain BoE, and perhaps be made a little more available. I also hope that the devs consider allowing us to buy non-class gear from the seal vendors.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Or the other way, if it remais the same, they will find something wrong when the fresh new epic item will all sell for 10+ millions and the gold spammers will become a visible majority in the game.
What would be the point? Those are slated to be BoP as well.
Oh ****! I just re-read the first post and you're right. That stinks! I can't even farm seals as a source of AD income? And even upgrading some gear via professions will make them BoP?!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Actually, I think if it would have the reverse effect because all of the epic items will sell for 10 AD due to the market being flooded with them. Remember the law of supply and demand. The more plentiful an item is = less demand = cost less. The less plentiful and item is = more demand = cost more.
But if it remains the same. The fresh new epics will be very expensive in the first week, then 2nd week as more ppl farm it, will become slightly expensive, by the third week, will become normal priced.
So new players would have to w8 about a month to BUY a reasonable new epic...rather than farming half a year+.....
I understand ppl's argument about, "highest gear must be hard" But the way it is now. Everyone does have higher gear, and granted it's not "special" but the playing field is pretty much EVEN, with ppl able to challenge each other reasonably well.
If this change comes true....There will be existing players, all geared up...just massacring new undergeared players who just won't be able to match up....
It's fun for awhile for the elites...but even THAT will lose it's fun after awhile...whats so fun about stomping someone into the ground and i don't even lose half of my hp....
But...what to do? They want the game this way.....Beyond our control...:(
Why not give all new players max level characters with fully geared epics and enchants and just call it an FPS?
thats right.
In a free market where only the market set the price, we add some monopoly or the price are set by people who can actually buy all the market, they pretty much own the economy and they can set their price, some people might undercut them, but they would buy it to resell it unless the supply is so high and cheap, making it impossible to do so. But by this time, their goal will be achieve and they would have farm enough to cover their expense fee, to repeat the trick at a next tier of content release.
It all come to money buys money.
I totally agree with you, i'm not all in for BoP, it just becoming a necessity at this point because of their lack of perception, badly conceived economy and because they didn't react sooner. It's unfortunate for the new players, i don't hold the players who abused it responsible, i blame Cryptic/PW. They were not prepared and didn't anticipate how their system would fail because they push the game so much, while enjoying the money stacking in their bank account, until they realized an epic item drops was actually more expensive than their premium cash shop item, and gold spammers stole a good % of their income.
So then you'll just queue with players who don't know how to play and don't have gear since you can queue for T2s in pvp gear and a couple rings?
Your problem isn't other people and what gear they have, so don't be surprised if this change goes through and it doesn't solve it.
Clean up? It's going to do nothing about the hordes of people who bought all their gear. It just means there won't be as many new ones.
1 day cd, tier loot 100% chance from boss, and no more t1 in t2 chests. Would be a nice experience.
This game is hanging on a thin line at the moment. I hope it doesn't cross over to the unplayable state.
The BoP implementation is an interesting proposal, it is proposed as a rally towards equality when it is really a pay to unlock. I appreciate the fact the team wants to revisit the issue of loot. My problem is that by implementing these changes Neverwinter has finally made the masqueraded shift to become truly Pay to Win. If you are a free player who loves Neverwinter, please read this through and think about what it will mean for you.
Why is BoP making Neverwinter pay to win? Many F2Pers have fervently argued that BoP changes mean it’s LESS pay to win because you can’t just buy all your gear on the AH instantly after hitting 60 with AD. You gotta earn your gear, which means gear reflects experience. Right?
That very argument is in fact a finely guised red herring. T2 gear is only the entry point to the end game. Provided a player have enough desire and tenacity to grind through hours of repetitive content to stay in the game, they will get to T2 BiS gear. But the real addition you want to T2 gear is an augment pet (Ioun Stone of Allure/Cat), maybe a faster mount (especially with mounts enabled in current PvP and Gauntlgrym, but I digress) and coalescent wands for your runes and enchants. At 4-10K RAD per dungeon item farmed, you’ll need more than 120 purple items to get a cat at the fixed 960000 AD price. Even if you fill your daily RAD quota, that’s going to be at least 40 days saving exclusively for the cat. Then you would want to start the process all over again for coalescent wands. You will be making enchants from scratch because you've exhausted your savings.
Unless new ways of earning/exchanging AD magically open up (which I doubt), this effectively makes end game enchants and pets pay to win again, wiping collective player efforts in the last few weeks to make wards affordable to everyone (currently you can trade wands with AD/gold/keys/profession assets etc). While some may argue enchantment prices will drop due to dwindling currency, coalescent wand is a Zen item whose prices is NOT going to decrease significantly and will always hover around the zen-AD conversion price equivalence, which is far above 24K RAD per day. If you want to slot at least 12 rank 7s, plus gear on your pets etc that’s at least how many wands you may look at getting into. Never mind the AD fee to unsocket them should you actually want to change gear (depending on how that price compares with a new enchant).
If you don’t mind buying zen (I don’t have anything against those who do), you can buy the ioun stone, an epic mount and as many wands as you want for a comparatively less painless price than 40+ days of farming. Then once you get all your T2s you’re a god amongst men.
Now ask yourself. Is that pay to win? Currently many F2P players have earned all their AD, gear and zen items by trading and being creative with the market and their skills. After making items BoP, buying such items with cash from the Zen store becomes almost the exclusive avenue as a realistic means of obtaining such items. If you've stuck with the game that long, yes perhaps it's deserving to put some money towards the game, but that's not part of the argument for those who want to go exclusively F2P.
For the salvage system to have a chance, please reconsider and increase the salvage prices in conjunction to the daily RAD limit. (Along with some of the many other good proposals in this thread). This should be benchmarked against the cat/ coalescent wards to find the middle ground to appease both zen store supporters and free to play heroes.
In conclusion the BoP change will only DELAY the wallet warriors transition to T2. They will have to grind their one set but once they did that they can buy all ther mounts, runes and pets. At that point F2P players are PUNISHED severely as there is now a much high time cost towards both getting to a good T2 set and saving up AD for augment pets and wands.
There are further ramifications about this process including increased player greed, further caste/elitism division between T2 geared players, zen/AD transactions and the motivation for doing dungeons. But please, for the longevity of this game and the inclusion and retention of all its gaming population subsets (casual, serious, hardcore, zen supporters, f2p players) please allow this change to not punish one group excessively over another.
TL;DR: T2 gear is only the beginning of the end game. The real grind is for coalescent wards and augment pets which have a set price. Current Salvage prices is too low and will as such severly disadvantage players not using the zen shop. This in my opinion will unbalance and polarise the game populations and shatter the gaming community.
Thanks for reading.
Guild and guide info
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
TL;DR: It's already 'Pay to Win.'
If you have no time to run t1 in the first place to gear up for t2, not much point in thinking on t2 dungeons.
Personally am tired of people that think they can buy gearscore to run dungeons, and if this update weed most of them out then ill be happy, my ignore list is mainly composed of gold spamers and really bad puggers that manage to buy t2 gear and were a colossal waste of time, most of them didnt even run the dungeon normal before trying epic, i dont even know how they manage to get to lv 60 in the first place.
You make it sound like that is a hard thing to do lol
My little puppy dog is a level 30 and he plays with paws.
Yeah, clear it out .... get rid of three-querters of the players....including a significant chunk of those who pay $$$ to allow the game to exist.
I am getting really tired of the childish and elitist attitude of some people here, but don't worry, if this policy is implemented, casual players like myself will leave....Neverwinter was attractive because it seemed a change from endless grinding MMOs - but if they pulll a "bait-and-switch" and make this just like many other games, I see no reason to hang around.
And don't forget - if a large chunk of the (paying) playerbase leaves, and new players realize they have a much harder time than existing ones, you are going to see the game fade away in a surprisingly short time as most players leave and new ones do not replace them.
Ignoring your earlier post......THIS^ actually sounds like a good idea.
It will stop ppl from getting it too easy, but ppl can STILL get it.
Sounds good to me.
They could also make it that you must have had completed a dungeon in order to don gear from it.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Hmmm......I dunno much about coding and tech stuff...But if this is possible to do....Then it also sounds good.
Make all equips gained from a dungeoun ONLY USABLE if that character has completed the dungeoun it came from. So as long as i complete the dungeoun, i can use whatever would drop from it. That would stop ppl's argument of "you bought it and you didn't even step into a dungeon" and also still allow us to buy things and not depend on luck of drops.
This idea of yours + the one day cool down on epics.......I think we might have the solution here!:)
Well that, and still being able to earn cash after being fully geared. There has to be a carrot on the stick for everyone. Gear or not.
Edited. forgot to put a, not, in there. totally changed what I was trying to say.
I think no matter if we prefer BoE or BoP it all come down this. I couldn't be against it.