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Elitism and Gear scores

zardoz007zardoz007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
edited June 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
The Elitism in this game keeps increasing as time goes on and classes are nerfed as dungeons get harder. I thought my big battle with this game was just overall class balance now players will not play with you if you do not have 12k gearscore plus the "right" weapon enchant.

This happeend to me today I was kicked from a CN group as a GWF with 11k gearscore and Vorpal enchantment because I did not have Greater Plague fire Enchant.

You would think any 11k GS character would be a vaule to a dungeon with a 9200 GS reguirement not to mention one with a Vorpal sword.

Part of the reason is these dungeons have gotten alot harder since DC, CW and TR got nerfed. The fighter buffs are nice but do not make up for the nerfs the other classes had to face.

I would like to see GS completely done away with. And since Elitism will never go away completely I suggest this in its place. Once you have completed A set amount of T1 and T2 dungeons you characters name changes from white to green. When you hace completed Lots of T2's and Geared up your GS to a certain point your characters name becomes Blue signifing you are Ready for CN. And Wehn you have completeled a rediculous amount of CNs and have purples in every slot and runestones your name should become Purple. This should be so hard to get that you will never see an all Purple team of elitsm players. That they should always be accepting blue players.

If you can't get rid of gearscores just dont let other players "see" your gearscore. It would amuse me greatly if the GS of another player just said "Over 9000" and that is all the info you could get from another player. This way player skill and expereince will matter more than GS.
Post edited by zardoz007 on
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    bonanzaguybonanzaguy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Have to agree, but it's even worse than you make out in the OP. Just today I saw two parties advertising for 10k and 11k to run FH.
    It's really kind of pathetic.
  • Options
    cesmode8cesmode8 Member Posts: 384 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I ran FH at 8.5 GS. Healed it solo no problem.

    I called a few of these jackels out in Protectors enclave chat. "LF1m CN 12k GS must have experience". Oh, well where the fck did you get get your experience? silence. Couldnt answer that one.

    Yeah, this is in every game and it is retarted in this one. I hit 60 last monday, I now have nearly a full set of exotic t1/t2 mix totalling a 9.1k gs in under a week. Im going to start farming T2 and CN now, and if I for a second feel that I am getting shafted from getting into groups because I dont have the correct enchantments, I'll tell everyone in this game to kiss my *** and leave.
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    chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    Let's face it this is the internet.. there's bound to be a few <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
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    deathssickledeathssickle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I recommend a good guild to run with.
    I am usually Deaths Crowbar.


    Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
    NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    dartakxdartakx Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well i think those attitude are not the norm, you just hit stupid people. But anyway, i've seen other game with inspect/gear score feature and all of them had a box you could check at the bottom of the character screen saying : "Make my character sheet private" so you couldn't be inspected / had to show GS. Of course, there was still some crackhead who was kicking people because their info was private, but at the some point no patch can fix some stupid behaviour we see in MMO.

    I think GS is a tool to make sure people are geared enough for the content and so they know what their gear worth. None of those 2 things requires your GS to be public. If someone doesn't want to share it, he should be able to do so.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    Gaming is serious business.. according to some people ... TBH gearscore is one huge big fat joke.. you can stack all sorts of worthless stats for your class and still get high "gearscore". Like stack a ton of HP you'll get fat gearscore but your performance will be subpar.
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    ashensnowashensnow Member Posts: 2,215 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    cesmode8 wrote: »
    I called a few of these jackels out in Protectors enclave chat. "LF1m CN 12k GS must have experience". Oh, well where the fck did you get get your experience? silence. Couldnt answer that one.

    Calling people out, calling them names (I do admit to not being sure what a jackel is, but from context it seems to be a pejorative of some sort), cursing at them, all for exercising their right to choose who to play with seems much worse than anything they are doing.
    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
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    dartakxdartakx Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    verdonix1 wrote: »
    Saw a bunch of groups today looking for people with the requirement that they be 4/4 ... and all others need not apply.... now I found out today that 4/4 means you have have beaten all 4 bosses in CN or something like that.... I replied in zone that if all these parties keep "requiring" experience, there will soon be no one to meet the requirement...

    While i don't want to change the subject, to an hot one. It's pretty much the issue there is with BoE items, people want them quickly to sell them, a small minority queue together refusing people who are not fully geared because it will slow them in their farming. While it's not all of them, doing dungeons is not about getting gear, it's business, if you are not geared to what they expect you to be, you make them lose time, more specifically AD per hour.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    <Let's not do that chronomancer. We get enough false reports as it is. ;)>
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    ovaltine74ovaltine74 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I am too good to socialize with elitists.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    NW-DMIME87F5
    Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors.
    Video Preview
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    willsommerswillsommers Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 103
    edited June 2013
    Worst zone spam of any game I've been in. I don't care that you have 9.9k GS and a cat. Wow you bought an augment pet. You must have some type of special skills.......

    I'm not sure what is worst the GS spammers, the people selling stuff trying to scam others scammers, or the gold sale spammers.
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    suirakksuirakk Member Posts: 31
    edited June 2013
    Because gear score is indicative of player ability, gear score is a blight on the character sheet and should be removed.
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    memorythoughtmemorythought Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Really it just comes down to one thing. The game is social and you're required to play well with others, so find a good reliable guild and make some friends. I'm pretty happy with the folks I've started with recently, biggest problems I'm facing now are bugs and incommunicative players since we typically don't fill out a full group. Well that and I'm poor as beans and need to get a LOT of injury kits and potions .....

    Your idea for the color of the name changes isn't all that great though. What happens when they release a T3 dungeon? Do our names go to hot pink? Then the T4, are we in lilac? Maybe T5 can be polka dot? Sorry for the condescending language, but you get the idea.

    Gear score is needed in any game with a cue system. It's how they are able to sort folks and is a rather general mark of competency - excluding someone buying everything on the AH that is. We as players need to see it so we can determine where we're at in terms of progression. Are there other ways they could go about it? Yes, just the GS is frankly easiest.
  • Options
    chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    suirakk wrote: »
    Because gear score is indicative of player ability, gear score is a blight on the character sheet and should be removed.

    20100222.WSicJq0YLyms.jpg
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    ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    deathssickle wrote: »
    I recommend a good guild to run with.

    a good guild full of the same people that once they get gear will advertise " lf cw 11k gs + stone no scrubs need 1 for guild run " right .
    http://youtu.be/kiEPiETiVnU?t=4m5s
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    rhymfaxerhymfaxe Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 101 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    DDs is the main problem. When you want to squeeze 4 runs of frozen heart into 1 hr, you want a well geared team to plow through it as fast as possible. There is no room for a low GS character that may or may not know what to do (or inefficient classes like GFs). Like it or not, and pull out your GS != skill arguments, but a high GS is much more indicative of being skilled than a low gear score is. And if you do get a blithering idiot in your team (oh there are a lot...) You'd rather have him well geared to compensate for his inability to play well. DDs are all about farming efficiency.
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    ovaltine74ovaltine74 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Chronomancer....you know what you just posted a picture of right?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    NW-DMIME87F5
    Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors.
    Video Preview
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    grizzdelgrizzdel Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 34
    edited June 2013
    I am willing to bet that 95% of the people calling for "experienced only" or "12K+GS 4/4" etc. are DPS players who mash buttons and have little skill. They probably, for the most part, have no idea the actual skill it takes to be a good tank, healer or CCer in a group or raid. They have played with skilled players and find it easy to DPS when all else goes right. (i.e. they are healed, adds are controlled, boss is tanked)
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    dirfingedirfinge Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 48
    edited June 2013
    Do not worry with the new patch will be more difficult to obtain equipment, thanks crytic.
  • Options
    dethcorddethcord Member Posts: 77
    edited June 2013
    zardoz007 wrote: »
    The Elitism in this game keeps increasing as time goes on and classes are nerfed as dungeons get harder. I thought my big battle with this game was just overall class balance now players will not play with you if you do not have 12k gearscore plus the "right" weapon enchant.

    This happeend to me today I was kicked from a CN group as a GWF with 11k gearscore and Vorpal enchantment because I did not have Greater Plague fire Enchant.

    You would think any 11k GS character would be a vaule to a dungeon with a 9200 GS reguirement not to mention one with a Vorpal sword.

    Part of the reason is these dungeons have gotten alot harder since DC, CW and TR got nerfed. The fighter buffs are nice but do not make up for the nerfs the other classes had to face.

    I would like to see GS completely done away with. And since Elitism will never go away completely I suggest this in its place. Once you have completed A set amount of T1 and T2 dungeons you characters name changes from white to green. When you hace completed Lots of T2's and Geared up your GS to a certain point your characters name becomes Blue signifing you are Ready for CN. And Wehn you have completeled a rediculous amount of CNs and have purples in every slot and runestones your name should become Purple. This should be so hard to get that you will never see an all Purple team of elitsm players. That they should always be accepting blue players.

    If you can't get rid of gearscores just dont let other players "see" your gearscore. It would amuse me greatly if the GS of another player just said "Over 9000" and that is all the info you could get from another player. This way player skill and expereince will matter more than GS.

    If players don't want to go with undergeared players - they shouldn't be forced to do so. Sometimes I go with my group and we need just 1 random guy to fill the slot - so we invite some random rogue with "10k+ gs", turns out he's geared in blues - kick before the last CN boss.

    Besides, if I have good gear and an understanding of what to do in an instance - I want to count on my team having the same, so the run will be a breeze. I don't want to spend 9999hours running a CN without actually killing the last boss simply because our rogue uses SE, cleric don't have AS on his panel, and second CW is slotted for power or recovery.

    Also, GWFs are still useless.
    I am willing to bet that 95% of the people calling for "experienced only" or "12K+GS 4/4" etc. are DPS players who mash buttons and have little skill. They probably, for the most part, have no idea the actual skill it takes to be a good tank, healer or CCer in a group or raid. They have played with skilled players and find it easy to DPS when all else goes right. (i.e. they are healed, adds are controlled, boss is tanked)

    Mashing buttons as a rogue on a dracolich requires more skill then playing a cleric post patch. Besides yo have like 2 dailies+tab+3 encounter slots+2 at wills = 8 buttons total, for example I had 27 both in WoW and WHO, etc.

    There is not so much room to show your "skill", so I don't know what the fk you are talking about.

    Gaming is serious business.. according to some people ... TBH gearscore is one huge big fat joke.. you can stack all sorts of worthless stats for your class and still get high "gearscore". Like stack a ton of HP you'll get fat gearscore but your performance will be subpar.

    Gaming is a hobby, is what helps you to rest from your job. And I want to overcome game's challenges with a good team doing everything right, not being grouped up with some rogue who does half of my dps.

    I'd also like ot notice that 12k+ gs people would most likely run FH for items to sell only, therefore its an "all need" run anyway. And why anyone thinks that better geared players should gear them up too?
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    grizzdelgrizzdel Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 34
    edited June 2013
    No class is useless if the person behind the KB is good at what they do.
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    lonnehartlonnehart Member Posts: 846 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This is probably my biggest reason to fly solo and play with Foundry quests. I won't have the best gear, my abilities will not be to anyone elses standards, but I'm having fun. And at the moment that's all I care about. :)
    *sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"

    "Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
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    katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dartakx wrote: »
    Well i think those attitude are not the norm
    Haha, wow. Is this your first MMO?
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    baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Gear Score Salivating creeps are the reason i run the majority of this game solo..
    Yay! lets turn an RPG into a min maxing spreadsheet exercise that'll be fun, no wonder they get bored so quickly..
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The number of overgeared people running DDs after the BoP change will drop so you should have more luck with groups.

    Getting them anyway, not necessarily killing anything.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    mordikaymordikay Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    etherealj wrote: »
    The number of overgeared people running DDs after the BoP change will drop so you should have more luck with groups.

    Getting them anyway, not necessarily killing anything.
    True true, if BoP goes through those/us "overgeared" people won't bother with dungeons or maybe the game and very likely not a lot of the end bosses will ever be killed.
  • Options
    datemperdatemper Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    zardoz007 wrote: »
    The Elitism in this game keeps increasing as time goes on and classes are nerfed as dungeons get harder. I thought my big battle with this game was just overall class balance now players will not play with you if you do not have 12k gearscore plus the "right" weapon enchant.

    This happeend to me today I was kicked from a CN group as a GWF with 11k gearscore and Vorpal enchantment because I did not have Greater Plague fire Enchant.

    You would think any 11k GS character would be a vaule to a dungeon with a 9200 GS reguirement not to mention one with a Vorpal sword.

    Part of the reason is these dungeons have gotten alot harder since DC, CW and TR got nerfed. The fighter buffs are nice but do not make up for the nerfs the other classes had to face.

    I would like to see GS completely done away with. And since Elitism will never go away completely I suggest this in its place. Once you have completed A set amount of T1 and T2 dungeons you characters name changes from white to green. When you hace completed Lots of T2's and Geared up your GS to a certain point your characters name becomes Blue signifing you are Ready for CN. And Wehn you have completeled a rediculous amount of CNs and have purples in every slot and runestones your name should become Purple. This should be so hard to get that you will never see an all Purple team of elitsm players. That they should always be accepting blue players.

    If you can't get rid of gearscores just dont let other players "see" your gearscore. It would amuse me greatly if the GS of another player just said "Over 9000" and that is all the info you could get from another player. This way player skill and expereince will matter more than GS.

    You'll always be welcome in my party or any of my Clans parties.

    Unfortunately we live in an age of Auction House Heroes.
  • Options
    lonnehartlonnehart Member Posts: 846 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So what's next? Guilds that won't let anyone in unless they have a "minimum Gear Score"?
    *sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"

    "Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
  • Options
    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    lonnehart wrote: »
    So what's next? Guilds that won't let anyone in unless they have a "minimum Gear Score"?

    People probably do that already.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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