mezekulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
I work a lot. It's easier for me to buy a mount that I can PVP with rather than spend X amount of hours grinding AD. I don't mind paying because 1. The game was free 2. I like the game a lot 3. I don't mind supporting the company that brought me a great game to play and didn't force me to pay for. You may think its overpriced, but that's probably because of your personal economic situation. I don't mind. Many others don't mind. Your bashing is unwarranted and you make yourself look childish.
Omg why almost PWE games have a thread with this cash -shop issue !!
Basically it just to advance faster for those working players that doesn't have much time to spend and it is not for kids which ask parent for penny..
Even hard-core player played for 24 hours a day doesn't match with a player that spend real-cash on items and upgrades.
(Normally $100-$300 a day is nothing much for working players)
Let end the Pay to win question and move on the gameplay until "NEW" games launch, eventually most population will quit.
Welcome to life. Some people have more time than money for video games. Others have more money than time. Rarely do you find someone with a lot of money AND a lot of time. As long as both players stand an equal chance of getting into the same end game and facing off in PVP, I don't see what the problem is. I understand your usage of the term "P2W" - however, the term is a misnomer, and as was stated earlier, doesn't even apply to this game as "winning" is not easily defined. The best example would be PVP, but again, you can get the same gear as someone who pays, so who cares?
I agree with you. To put things in perspective, I bought both founder packs (initially only the $60 one, but later realised I wanted early access, so bought the $200.). I even bought the Warg mount, the golem companion, the stone of allure and a heap of professions packs. So you're preaching to the choir about spending money on a game should you be able and willing to. I'm both.
But that wasn't the argument here. The argument was about this game's status as P2W, and, we have to concede that it most definitely is that. Every single thing that you can earn in the game can be bought; that has and will always be what MOST people mean when they describe a game as P2W. Usually, they say it pejoratively because, as I said, they feel their effort is undermined, when all a new player has to do is drop some fast cash to be right where they've worked so hard to be. It undermines their sense of accomplishment. I really do have sympathy for that position.
Which would answer your question of "Who cares?". Lots of people care. The ones griping about P2W quite obviously care.
"Yeah, it's P2W but that's life" is quite a reverse from your stubbornly insisting that it wasn't P2W a few posts ago. I was only pushing for you to be intellectually honest about the whole thing
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celusiosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
I work a lot. It's easier for me to buy a mount that I can PVP with rather than spend X amount of hours grinding AD. I don't mind paying because 1. The game was free 2. I like the game a lot 3. I don't mind supporting the company that brought me a great game to play and didn't force me to pay for. You may think its overpriced, but that's probably because of your personal economic situation. I don't mind. Many others don't mind. Your bashing is unwarranted and you make yourself look childish.
Wait wait wait, so according to your logic me purchasing overpriced goods somehow makes me "better off financially?". That quite honestly was the worst form of logic I've seen. Your financial situation never justifies paying a ridiculous fee. You can support a company all you want, but when they want 30$ for a MOUNT, not some armor or some cool weapon but a MOUNT that my friend is outrageous.
Oh, and i'm all for embarrassing your financial situation in PM's if you'd so like? I'm pretty certain mine is better.
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celusiosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
I agree with you. To put things in perspective, I bought both founder packs (initially only the $60 one, but later realised I wanted early access, so bought the $200.). I even bought the Warg mount, the golem companion, the stone of allure and a heap of professions packs. So you're preaching to the choir about spending money on a game should you be able and willing to. I'm both.
But that wasn't the argument here. The argument was about this game's status as P2W, and, we have to concede that it most definitely is that. Every single thing that you can earn in the game can be bought; that has and will always be what MOST people mean when they describe a game as P2W. Usually, they say it pejoratively because, as I said, they feel their effort is undermined, when all a new player has to do is drop some fast cash to be right where they've worked so hard to be. It undermines their sense of accomplishment. I really do have sympathy for that position.
Which would answer your question of "Who cares?". Lots of people care. The ones griping about P2W quite obviously care.
"Yeah, it's P2W but that's life" is quite a reverse from your stubbornly insisting that it wasn't P2W a few posts ago. I was only pushing for you to be intellectually honest about the whole thing
Good post. Sadly though, for anyone who wants their effort to not be undermined by someone who's foolish enough to spend 300$ or more on a video game (when you could buy a good ol' FPS for 60$ and not have to pay for everything) that's hard to come by. The pay 60$ and 15$ USD a month for a game model doesn't really work well anymore. Which humors me... people will again drop 30$ on a companion, 30$ mounts, 60$ for an inferno horse, etc but won't pay 15$ a month along that base fee of 60$? lol.
Good post. Sadly though, for anyone who wants their effort to not be undermined by someone who's foolish enough to spend 300$ or more on a video game (when you could buy a good ol' FPS for 60$ and not have to pay for everything) that's hard to come by. The pay 60$ and 15$ USD a month for a game model doesn't really work well anymore. Which humors me... people will again drop 30$ on a companion, 30$ mounts, 60$ for an inferno horse, etc but won't pay 15$ a month along that base fee of 60$? lol.
Yeah, i'd much prefer a subscription fee with a few sensible cosmetic/convenience advantages.
I dumped the money because I had the money to spare, and I don't have many vices IRL. I scoff at people who waste money on alcohol and cigarettes, and I guarantee, that's many many thousands of dollars more wasted than the petty few hundred I dropped into NWO. Most twats spend more than I have in a single weekend of clubbing; i'd rather just set fire to the money if that were my option.
To each his own. /shrug
yeah it's about as pay to win as say Shogun 2 total War. lol not.
The whine is stronk (like bull) in this thread.
And when I log in,just because I feel like undermining everybody elses effort,I'm gonna buy me 200 lockboxes and keys and gamble for a nightmare.It will go rather well with my huge collection of premium mounts and quality companions.
And with my newly acquired trade bars I'll go buy one of my friends a purple mount and give her that.
Hell I think I'll even shout my cleric a cosmetic makeover so her makeup matches the color of her two pretty floating stones around her head.
If I've got some Zen left,I might even buy some profession packs and do a little more undermining just for fun.
perfectindigoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Neverwinter is p2w.
Players can buy the best gear in the game. A fresh 60 that pays can have a fast mount, a cat/stone, amazing enchantments, great shirt/pants, and great gear. All of those things impact gameplay and aren't merely convenience, like larger bags. Those same things would take a free player months to grind. A p2w player can buy a real advantage over everyone except the hardcore people who have managed to grind out everything already. p2w puts the player at the top of the gear chain without playing the game. It's true that it doesn't give them the skill to go along with that gear, but it makes a big difference.
However, I agree with the OP in part. p2w isn't Neverwinter's only problem. Its other problem is not having separate itemization paths for pve/pvp/whatever. It's almost impossible to itemize for pvp by doing pvp. I spent most of my end game time with pvp. It pays hardly any AD, gives barely any items, and the glory can only purchase mediocre pvp gear. I did well based on skill, but I definitely noticed when I was outgeared by p2w and t2+ pve players. Currently I have a slow mount, a mishmash of gear a little better than pvp starter, no decent enchants, no decent shirt/pants. I have enough AD that I could get decent shirt/pants or a mount, but I'm months from getting decent enchants. Considering how much pvp I did, I shouldn't have such bad gear for pvp.
I like Neverwinter's action combat, but it has big problems with itemization. It's not a question of whether I'm willing/able to pay. I could pay if I want, but I don't want to pay to have such a big advantage over other players. I'd rather play a balanced pvp game than lolstack enchants. I don't enjoy outgearing people any more than I enjoy undergearing. I'd rather see a model where players who pvp regularly can get competitive enchants/gears/etc fairly quickly, people who pay can get stuff a little worse, and people who really dedicate themselves to pvp can get "prestige" items: items that take forever to grind but barely provide any stat advantage. Earning one of those rewards the player's dedication but isn't required to be competitive.
This same type of model should be applied to pve skirmishes/raids/dungeons, where each path has gear suited just a little better for it, and lets players shows off their dedication to that mode.
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cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
There's no P2W if you're either a Foundry author or Foundry quest player. We can have fun without trying to do regular end-game or PvP.
Players can buy the best gear in the game. A fresh 60 that pays can have a fast mount, a cat/stone, amazing enchantments, great shirt/pants, and great gear. All of those things impact gameplay and aren't merely convenience, like larger bags. Those same things would take a free player months to grind. A p2w player can buy a real advantage over everyone except the hardcore people who have managed to grind out everything already. p2w puts the player at the top of the gear chain without playing the game. It's true that it doesn't give them the skill to go along with that gear, but it makes a big difference.
However, I agree with the OP in part. p2w isn't Neverwinter's only problem. Its other problem is not having separate itemization paths for pve/pvp/whatever. It's almost impossible to itemize for pvp by doing pvp. I spent most of my end game time with pvp. It pays hardly any AD, gives barely any items, and the glory can only purchase mediocre pvp gear. I did well based on skill, but I definitely noticed when I was outgeared by p2w and t2+ pve players. Currently I have a slow mount, a mishmash of gear a little better than pvp starter, no decent enchants, no decent shirt/pants. I have enough AD that I could get decent shirt/pants or a mount, but I'm months from getting decent enchants. Considering how much pvp I did, I shouldn't have such bad gear for pvp.
I like Neverwinter's action combat, but it has big problems with itemization. It's not a question of whether I'm willing/able to pay. I could pay if I want, but I don't want to pay to have such a big advantage over other players. I'd rather play a balanced pvp game than lolstack enchants. I don't enjoy outgearing people any more than I enjoy undergearing. I'd rather see a model where players who pvp regularly can get competitive enchants/gears/etc fairly quickly, people who pay can get stuff a little worse, and people who really dedicate themselves to pvp can get "prestige" items: items that take forever to grind but barely provide any stat advantage. Earning one of those rewards the player's dedication but isn't required to be competitive.
This same type of model should be applied to pve skirmishes/raids/dungeons, where each path has gear suited just a little better for it, and lets players shows off their dedication to that mode.
Well you better start paying if you want the good stuff pronto.
At least the option to acquire all that stuff by playing the game is there.
Now if it wasn't acquirable by in game methods.....a different story.
Anyway cheers,I'm off to buy some more $Zen$ and undermine your gameplay for the night.
You are right in a sense, but mostly wrong for what you are proposing. This game is pay to win only in the elitist-hardcore-underground gamer community wherein games cannot make much money.
As far as the real world is concerned, this game isn't much of a pay to win, its pay for convenience. This is one of the few MMOs that actually takes experience and skill to be able to compete in PVP and in the tier 2 dungeons.
Countless times, I've seen 9k GS players fare much better than 10k GS players who got their gear through the zen store. Anything that can be "bought" can also be earned through farming.
But in a way, aren't these so called "hardcore gamers" whining about P2W hypocrites? When these elitist gamers spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of a computer and farming, doesn't someone (usually their parents) had to pay for their electricity, for their food, their rent because these "hardcore gamers" are too busy playing the whole day instead of getting a fulltime job?
So long as the "pay route" isn't the only way to success and the game requires skill to be able to manage your character, this game is not P2W.
the prices are ridiculously high on this game.
i dont have time to be a full time farmer, and i am not dumping hundreds of dollars into a single character in one game.
that is my complaint.
if i could get by with 20$ spent a month then i would not complain, but that wont cut it here.
Playing the game, you can get a cat and a tier 3 mount after about 4 months, with a mix of luck and extremely hardcore dungeoning, you might get your enchantments needed in about a year- by which time they'll be obsolete.
And that's with hardcore play- for things that are BiS/needed for dungeons/pvp.
Sure, you can say 'well, if you do not want to be well geared, you don't have to pay' but that's pretty obvious- if that is seriously your criteria for saying this game isn't p2w, then EVERY game ever made isn't p2w if it's f2p.
Just the difference between having all rank 4 and all rank 7 enchants is several hundred stat points- and when you add in the huge damage boost of greater vorpals, you're looking at a massive difference.
Now, a big difference in games generally isn't a huge deal when you can earn it by playing the game- and now we get to hear from the people who treat this game like an economic simulator talk about how they have no problem getting enchants/mounts/pets.... by playing the AH.
Nobody talks about getting it anywhere else, because you can't- you either pay money, or know how to play the AH- because you can't earn pets or mounts or enchants by doing in game achievements, pvp, dungeons, rep grinds, grinding rare enemies, etc... you can't even grind in game currency since the dropped currency isn't the usable currency. It's all about the auction house- great for those who love auction houses, but anyone else may as well leave the game- and they are/will.
You can't even earn enchants- since they cost a massive 10 dollars to infuse at higher levels- or for greaters, 210 for a single greater enchant I believe, not including needing what, 64 shards that you might get one random one per dungeon?
It hasn't sunk in how p2w it is to get anything in this game since everyone who has these things got it either a- cheating, b- paying real money, or c- is one of those folks who is good with the auction house.
Nobody's actually grinded out, and understands the scope of what it means to grind out these BiS things- because there hasn't been time to grind out even a fraction of it yet- and that puts this game in one of two categories. Either it's p2w, or, it's an economy sim.
Are you kidding me? This isn't true for pve and it is certainly not true for pvp. Idiots mash buttons, good players study their opponents, their skills, where they position themselves, what the animations of their skills look like, etc. and play accordingly.
Then they mash buttons according to their template, in order to create burst DPS, which is what PVP is all about. While these "good players" are studying their opponent, the "idiots" are killing them by mashing specific buttons in a specific order. Your terms in quotes.
Convert your AD to $Zen$
Buy Lockbox keys
Open your Lockboxes
Gain AD and profitable items
Use the AD gained from Lockboxes to buy more $Zen$ and more Lockboxes or beg borrow Lockboxes from friends/family/guild.
Use trade bars to buy a purple mount for the time being.
Use or sell profession packs from the Lockboxes.
Use/sell blue items from packs
Use/sell enchants/wards from Lockboxes
I have no problems getting AD in this game, learn the market, know what items to aim for and play AH/PvP/DD, hell you can even buy Zen for AD and sell Zen to earn AD. (:
You can even work one hour to get paid and to buy yourself about 100 Zen, which is about 30.000 AD atm. 30.000 AD in one hour, i want to see any AD-Farming Guide who beats this.
pay to win is,having no other option to gain the stuff that makes you better than other people but paying .
Wow, you sure got a lot more words from 'pay to win' than I did. 'Cause here I thought it meant "pay to win", as in, you put money in the thing and it makes you better. Which you can totally do in this game.
But no, you're right, it really should be "pay to win unless you'd rather farm 12 cents every day for a few months to be as good as the guy who just happened to have five dollars". We'll call it P2WUYRF12cEDPMTBAGATGWJH2H5D instead, just so there isn't anymore confusion about this really diverse and hard to understand topic.
Wow, you sure got a lot more words from 'pay to win' than I did. 'Cause here I thought it meant "pay to win", as in, you put money in the thing and it makes you better. Which you can totally do in this game.
But no, you're right, it really should be "pay to win unless you'd rather farm 12 cents every day for a few months to be as good as the guy who just happened to have five dollars". We'll call it P2WUYRF12cEDPMTBAGATGWJH2H5D instead, just so there isn't anymore confusion about this really diverse and hard to understand topic.
Thanks datemper.
Yeah you're right.
Anyway I'm off to buy some more $Zen$ and win win win ! Cya in a few months when you may have caught up with me.Actually never mind,you won't catch up. lol
Anyway I'm off to buy some more $Zen$ and win win win ! Cya in a few months when you may have caught up with me.Actually never mind,you won't catch up. lol
Well according to the 'loose' definition of P2W that most whiners have, when money is exchanged for time and effort is considered P2W, every online game in the world is P2W. I can't think of a single game you could not throw money at and not gain some kind of edge or shorten the amount of time needed to get to a certain point. Games like sc2 and cs are notorious for being able to pay for training and shorten the learning curve.
I used to even sell boss loot in other mmo's through paypal to people by inviting them after clearing to the boss, and then have them sit at entrance and master loot whatever it was they wanted to them after the boss was dead.
Its very common in wow to sell ratings needed for acquiring gear.
So if this is the case, why do people whine about it when every game is P2W???
A free game means any 10 year old can download, play, and then gripe about how "I'm going to quit this game if you don't bow to my demands! I speak for everyone! Heed my words or doom will fall upon your game!"
The fact is most people fail to recognize that companies develop games for one reason (to make money.) That's the way the world works - no business has ever stayed afloat by losing money. Programmers, artists, network engineers, server guys, PR people, HR people, administration.. it all costs money. A game has to make money to survive.
Cryptic has done a hell of a job striking a good balance in my opinion.. you can get into the game for free, level up and get into end game content without spending a dime. For those of us who support the game, or want some convenience/cool looking items, we can CHOOSE to spend money - however, it is in no way required.
The thing that kills me is people acting like they DESERVE free respecs or they DESERVE this or DESERVE that... child please. They act as if when their wishes aren't met, they are going to take their ball and go home and Cryptic/PW will be left out to dry... go ahead. Quit the game. No one cares. There are plenty who think this game is a real gem - it needs some refining, some tweaking, some more content - that will come with time. It's still in Open Beta for cripes sake. And yet people seem to feel the need to shout their obtuse and narrow viewpoints on the forums as if they know all...
There will be issues with the game. There are issues with any game. So far, the team has been reasonably responsive... for people who think the game is unfair.. just quit. To everyone else.. happy hunting out there. The game is a great game and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I have (problems and all!)
AGREED!!
This is the BEST post I have on this forum in regards to all the complainers and people saying they are going to leave.
This is the BEST post I have on this forum in regards to all the complainers and people saying they are going to leave.
thats not true, the best game there ever was was created out of passion where a set of dedicated people created a game that has lasted almost 2 decades and with no sort money grabbing scheme like we are seeing in the games today. so yeah, believe what you want.
you just believe that because today games are business. they have to make a living... crock of bs.
It is a very "real" and "meaningful" way in the sense that it is literally inferred by the phrase. You are applying YOUR rather strict reading of the phrase and deciding that any other reading is incorrect.
That's not really how language works.
"Pay 2 win" has demonstrably been used to describe games where EFFORT and MONEY are interchangeable currencies. If ever effort can be subverted through means of an instantaneous transaction, the game becomes pay to win, because PAYING is a viable alternative to putting in the long hours.
There is nothing in this short phrase to suggest it is a necessity. Please indicate where this is inferred in these three words?
"Pay to win" is not the same as "Paying is necessary for winning". <-- that would be 'real' and 'meaningful'.
Comments
Basically it just to advance faster for those working players that doesn't have much time to spend and it is not for kids which ask parent for penny..
Even hard-core player played for 24 hours a day doesn't match with a player that spend real-cash on items and upgrades.
(Normally $100-$300 a day is nothing much for working players)
Let end the Pay to win question and move on the gameplay until "NEW" games launch, eventually most population will quit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree with you. To put things in perspective, I bought both founder packs (initially only the $60 one, but later realised I wanted early access, so bought the $200.). I even bought the Warg mount, the golem companion, the stone of allure and a heap of professions packs. So you're preaching to the choir about spending money on a game should you be able and willing to. I'm both.
But that wasn't the argument here. The argument was about this game's status as P2W, and, we have to concede that it most definitely is that. Every single thing that you can earn in the game can be bought; that has and will always be what MOST people mean when they describe a game as P2W. Usually, they say it pejoratively because, as I said, they feel their effort is undermined, when all a new player has to do is drop some fast cash to be right where they've worked so hard to be. It undermines their sense of accomplishment. I really do have sympathy for that position.
Which would answer your question of "Who cares?". Lots of people care. The ones griping about P2W quite obviously care.
"Yeah, it's P2W but that's life" is quite a reverse from your stubbornly insisting that it wasn't P2W a few posts ago. I was only pushing for you to be intellectually honest about the whole thing
Wait wait wait, so according to your logic me purchasing overpriced goods somehow makes me "better off financially?". That quite honestly was the worst form of logic I've seen. Your financial situation never justifies paying a ridiculous fee. You can support a company all you want, but when they want 30$ for a MOUNT, not some armor or some cool weapon but a MOUNT that my friend is outrageous.
Oh, and i'm all for embarrassing your financial situation in PM's if you'd so like? I'm pretty certain mine is better.
Good post. Sadly though, for anyone who wants their effort to not be undermined by someone who's foolish enough to spend 300$ or more on a video game (when you could buy a good ol' FPS for 60$ and not have to pay for everything) that's hard to come by. The pay 60$ and 15$ USD a month for a game model doesn't really work well anymore. Which humors me... people will again drop 30$ on a companion, 30$ mounts, 60$ for an inferno horse, etc but won't pay 15$ a month along that base fee of 60$? lol.
Yeah, i'd much prefer a subscription fee with a few sensible cosmetic/convenience advantages.
I dumped the money because I had the money to spare, and I don't have many vices IRL. I scoff at people who waste money on alcohol and cigarettes, and I guarantee, that's many many thousands of dollars more wasted than the petty few hundred I dropped into NWO. Most twats spend more than I have in a single weekend of clubbing; i'd rather just set fire to the money if that were my option.
To each his own. /shrug
The whine is stronk (like bull) in this thread.
And when I log in,just because I feel like undermining everybody elses effort,I'm gonna buy me 200 lockboxes and keys and gamble for a nightmare.It will go rather well with my huge collection of premium mounts and quality companions.
And with my newly acquired trade bars I'll go buy one of my friends a purple mount and give her that.
Hell I think I'll even shout my cleric a cosmetic makeover so her makeup matches the color of her two pretty floating stones around her head.
If I've got some Zen left,I might even buy some profession packs and do a little more undermining just for fun.
Yes, it is. Very stronk.
Players can buy the best gear in the game. A fresh 60 that pays can have a fast mount, a cat/stone, amazing enchantments, great shirt/pants, and great gear. All of those things impact gameplay and aren't merely convenience, like larger bags. Those same things would take a free player months to grind. A p2w player can buy a real advantage over everyone except the hardcore people who have managed to grind out everything already. p2w puts the player at the top of the gear chain without playing the game. It's true that it doesn't give them the skill to go along with that gear, but it makes a big difference.
However, I agree with the OP in part. p2w isn't Neverwinter's only problem. Its other problem is not having separate itemization paths for pve/pvp/whatever. It's almost impossible to itemize for pvp by doing pvp. I spent most of my end game time with pvp. It pays hardly any AD, gives barely any items, and the glory can only purchase mediocre pvp gear. I did well based on skill, but I definitely noticed when I was outgeared by p2w and t2+ pve players. Currently I have a slow mount, a mishmash of gear a little better than pvp starter, no decent enchants, no decent shirt/pants. I have enough AD that I could get decent shirt/pants or a mount, but I'm months from getting decent enchants. Considering how much pvp I did, I shouldn't have such bad gear for pvp.
I like Neverwinter's action combat, but it has big problems with itemization. It's not a question of whether I'm willing/able to pay. I could pay if I want, but I don't want to pay to have such a big advantage over other players. I'd rather play a balanced pvp game than lolstack enchants. I don't enjoy outgearing people any more than I enjoy undergearing. I'd rather see a model where players who pvp regularly can get competitive enchants/gears/etc fairly quickly, people who pay can get stuff a little worse, and people who really dedicate themselves to pvp can get "prestige" items: items that take forever to grind but barely provide any stat advantage. Earning one of those rewards the player's dedication but isn't required to be competitive.
This same type of model should be applied to pve skirmishes/raids/dungeons, where each path has gear suited just a little better for it, and lets players shows off their dedication to that mode.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
Well you better start paying if you want the good stuff pronto.
At least the option to acquire all that stuff by playing the game is there.
Now if it wasn't acquirable by in game methods.....a different story.
Anyway cheers,I'm off to buy some more $Zen$ and undermine your gameplay for the night.
the prices are ridiculously high on this game.
i dont have time to be a full time farmer, and i am not dumping hundreds of dollars into a single character in one game.
that is my complaint.
if i could get by with 20$ spent a month then i would not complain, but that wont cut it here.
And that's with hardcore play- for things that are BiS/needed for dungeons/pvp.
Sure, you can say 'well, if you do not want to be well geared, you don't have to pay' but that's pretty obvious- if that is seriously your criteria for saying this game isn't p2w, then EVERY game ever made isn't p2w if it's f2p.
Just the difference between having all rank 4 and all rank 7 enchants is several hundred stat points- and when you add in the huge damage boost of greater vorpals, you're looking at a massive difference.
Now, a big difference in games generally isn't a huge deal when you can earn it by playing the game- and now we get to hear from the people who treat this game like an economic simulator talk about how they have no problem getting enchants/mounts/pets.... by playing the AH.
Nobody talks about getting it anywhere else, because you can't- you either pay money, or know how to play the AH- because you can't earn pets or mounts or enchants by doing in game achievements, pvp, dungeons, rep grinds, grinding rare enemies, etc... you can't even grind in game currency since the dropped currency isn't the usable currency. It's all about the auction house- great for those who love auction houses, but anyone else may as well leave the game- and they are/will.
You can't even earn enchants- since they cost a massive 10 dollars to infuse at higher levels- or for greaters, 210 for a single greater enchant I believe, not including needing what, 64 shards that you might get one random one per dungeon?
It hasn't sunk in how p2w it is to get anything in this game since everyone who has these things got it either a- cheating, b- paying real money, or c- is one of those folks who is good with the auction house.
Nobody's actually grinded out, and understands the scope of what it means to grind out these BiS things- because there hasn't been time to grind out even a fraction of it yet- and that puts this game in one of two categories. Either it's p2w, or, it's an economy sim.
Then they mash buttons according to their template, in order to create burst DPS, which is what PVP is all about. While these "good players" are studying their opponent, the "idiots" are killing them by mashing specific buttons in a specific order. Your terms in quotes.
Buy Lockbox keys
Open your Lockboxes
Gain AD and profitable items
Use the AD gained from Lockboxes to buy more $Zen$ and more Lockboxes or beg borrow Lockboxes from friends/family/guild.
Use trade bars to buy a purple mount for the time being.
Use or sell profession packs from the Lockboxes.
Use/sell blue items from packs
Use/sell enchants/wards from Lockboxes
Rinse and repeat daily
No
pay to win is,having no other option to gain the stuff that makes you better than other people but paying .
You can even work one hour to get paid and to buy yourself about 100 Zen, which is about 30.000 AD atm. 30.000 AD in one hour, i want to see any AD-Farming Guide who beats this.
Like I said in the first post, you can pay for convenience, but at the end of the day, dungeons and PVP still require skill.
A hardcore player who earned gear through farming Dungeon Delves 8hours a day for the whole week will always beat a casual gamer who bought Zen
Wow, you sure got a lot more words from 'pay to win' than I did. 'Cause here I thought it meant "pay to win", as in, you put money in the thing and it makes you better. Which you can totally do in this game.
But no, you're right, it really should be "pay to win unless you'd rather farm 12 cents every day for a few months to be as good as the guy who just happened to have five dollars". We'll call it P2WUYRF12cEDPMTBAGATGWJH2H5D instead, just so there isn't anymore confusion about this really diverse and hard to understand topic.
Thanks datemper.
Yeah you're right.
Anyway I'm off to buy some more $Zen$ and win win win ! Cya in a few months when you may have caught up with me.Actually never mind,you won't catch up. lol
Thanks warkupoz
You're welcome. Also I forgive you.
I used to even sell boss loot in other mmo's through paypal to people by inviting them after clearing to the boss, and then have them sit at entrance and master loot whatever it was they wanted to them after the boss was dead.
Its very common in wow to sell ratings needed for acquiring gear.
So if this is the case, why do people whine about it when every game is P2W???
AGREED!!
This is the BEST post I have on this forum in regards to all the complainers and people saying they are going to leave.
thats not true, the best game there ever was was created out of passion where a set of dedicated people created a game that has lasted almost 2 decades and with no sort money grabbing scheme like we are seeing in the games today. so yeah, believe what you want.
you just believe that because today games are business. they have to make a living... crock of bs.
Could and should have stopped there.
All The Best
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Very well put! +1