For about the billionth time....GWF is a striker/defender hybrid designed to AoE tank 'loose' mobs. You are NOT designed to do the dps of a pure striker. My god...how hard is that for people to fathom?
no.. this game is based on D&D and the GWF is a striker.. a dps build.. and have the highest damage of whole D&D (after barbarian of course) the rogues... have good dps... but far faaaar away from the high burst of a GWF... and in this game GWF dont have this BURST... lol
Realism? Realism? Cmon... Btw, i think TR and GWF should do more or less the same dmg, but roles should be different and well defined. More CC for TR and escape mechanism, more tankiness for GWF.
As for the argument that rogues should not be top damage and this not being like IRL DnD you are foolish. Rogues actually have a ability on "paper" aka real DnD called feint. If you spec as a assassin aka "paragon" you can 1 shot any mob on a rogue with a fairly low roll. You can kill a tarusk at lv8 with 1 hit. Nothing else even comes close to that.
You want the REAL truth of the matter? GWFs don't give up a **** thing to do damage. How is having the highest mitigations and defensive skills/feats 'giving' up anything? As usual, the idiots that play warrior classes want everything. I find it amusing how you want the TR damage nerfed, but they have the second LOWEST mitigation in the game, the second LOWEST hps in the game, and they are the only PURE striker in the game. But, you and other morons like you, won't be happy until all fighters have the highest damage, hps, and mititgation. It's the same in every game. Warriors whining about everything. And as for 'kitchen knives'.....if you haven't noticed they are roughly 2-2.5 feet long. Where the **** have you seen kitchen knives that long?
It's like you have this obsession with the warrior class and if any class has or can do anything you can't....you cry. Oh, and a GWF should 'laugh' at facing 3 rogues? Really? No, that's not a huge ego at all. Again, proves my point that all you want is to be the most powerful of all the classes....childish...
lol and here come the nerd... u.u ahha XP listen.. play real D&D and tell me if rogues! do more damage than GWF! lol yes have the highest HPs highest burst of the game yeah this is a warrior.... -.- in evry game... rogue is a speed class difficult to play wich can do damage from sthealted and play all on stuns and poisons and do the best DPS(not burst). rogues never had the best burst... go to see Guild wars... Wow.. ecc... warrior have best burst with best resistence in evry game...
lol can do this only on weak mobs.. and of the same size.. cant do vs dragons or bosses ye u can kill a civilian not a knight... read the rules of D&D... and another time.. roges never had best damage in D&D barbarian,warrior,sorcerer do better damage than rogues
no.. this game is based on D&D and the GWF is a striker.. a dps build.. and have the highest damage of whole D&D (after barbarian of course) the rogues... have good dps... but far faaaar away from the high burst of a GWF... and in this game GWF dont have this BURST... lol
GWF is a defender in DnD.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
This class relies on brute strength alone to overcome the enemies. They are warriors who sacrifice shields in favor of large two-handed weapons. this is the manual of 4a -.- warrior is a defender not the gwf path...
Why will dps-player never be satisfied until their chosen class deals the most damage out of all classes, in all situations? It's always the same story. There are single-target dps classes and there are AoE-dps classes. GWF is the latter. They will never out-damage single-target dps classes on single targets.
Maybe so. But they also shouldnt match a rogues dps only when that damage is added up from hitting 4 targets at once.
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jezeen5Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The problem here is not that GWF dosnt do enough damage or that TR's do too much. Personally I think it's because CW's can replace the GWF's AoE damage and control at the same time. Take out the CW's damage but keep their Control and the GWF becomes the most useful character choice for most dungeons whilst still keeping the essence and intentional use for each class.
Fighters can still do good-excellent damage in 4e though. Right now GWFs sacrifice all their nice survivability perks for really, really, really lackluster damage.
This class relies on brute strength alone to overcome the enemies. They are warriors who sacrifice shields in favor of large two-handed weapons. this is the manual of 4a -.- warrior is a defender not the gwf path...
Paragon paths don't change the role of the classes, what are you talking about? I'm very confused. No one said he doesn't do damage. No one said he's defensive-specced or weak. I'm just saying he's a defender. Which he is.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Why will dps-player never be satisfied until their chosen class deals the most damage out of all classes, in all situations? It's always the same story. There are single-target dps classes and there are AoE-dps classes. GWF is the latter. They will never out-damage single-target dps classes on single targets.
Thats the problem. Everyone says we are AOE - we are not. We do less damage over multiple targets. Considering that we do hardly any real dps on single, when we do less on multiple its horrendous. Why do you think everyone complains about Dungeons adds are so overpowered? Because the GWF is not able to take them down in resonable order as is inteded.
AOE is a LARGE circle... like the ROGUE (and more so CW) AOE function. It' NOT standing in the middle of several mobs and swinging in less than a 3/4 arc (thats not 360 degreed duh) while putting yourself at combat DISADVANTAGE to do so.....
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olcas73Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
From Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook 4th Edition
CHAPTER 2 | Making Characters
(information on page 16 along w/ability scores)
Defender (Fighter, Paladin) Defenders have the highest defenses in the game and
good close-up offense. They are the party’s front-line
combatants; wherever they’re standing, that’s where
the action is. Defenders have abilities and powers that
make it difficult for enemies to move past them or to
ignore them in battle.
Striker (Ranger, Rogue, Warlock)
Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage
to a single target at a time. They have the most concentrated
offense of any character in the game. Strikers rely
on superior mobility, trickery, or magic to move around
tough foes and single out the enemy they want to attack.
Paragon Path for GWF currently in game is SWORDMASTER (page 88 of PHB 4E)
GWF isn't a striker. It is a defender since it is a Fighter. GW is simply the weapon, (which is a two-handed weapon instead of traditional sword and board or even dual wield). Doesn't really matter because as long as the class is a Fighter it will always be (according to the rules used here 4e) a Defender role. If paladins ever come in they too will be Defenders. Barbs will be the only striker using a 2 hander per 4e.
(Barbarians are covered in Player's handbook 2 for 4e starting on page 48).
It is a silly argument when it is all too easy to find a copy of the PHB to either prove or disprove the matter but to sit and continually argue fighters are strikers is silly when the PHB states otherwise.
Provide the material for 4e that changes this and then things change but since no proof/evidence has been submitted other than claims of "fighters have always been strikers". Fighters have always been fighters, a class that is offense and defense.
Rant all you want but the WotC material is what counts not anyone's opinion of what a class should be.
Yes that is a quote from the 4E PHB. We're not playing 4E D&D though. We're playing an mmo called Neverwinter. While based off of or inspired by it, Neverwinter incredibly obviously does not follow the pen and paper rules.
Neverwinter describes the GWF as striker primary, defender secondary, specializing in damaging multiple enemies.
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olcas73Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
The combat disadvantage can be reduced through feats...I have a GWF and have no problems sitting in the middle of mobs using only wicked strike, and if its up slam for daily(and I didn't take the feat to reduce CA). For single targets I use flourish, restoring strike, takedown, and sure strike. And that was before the patch today. My GWF is only level 45 (had zero problems at low levels also). Going destroyer path so far.
Using unstoppable increases swing speed. Steel Blitz is worthless, I only use weapon master and destroyer for class feature.
And the less damage argument is somewhat true but I've not experienced it. I've got a very low crit on my GWF and still kick them out pretty often, most likely due to the class features used than anything else.
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olcas73Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
Where does it describe it as a striker? please show proof...
ok i know nothings going to change, but i have to say it, i dont mind the rogue being on par with the gwf for dmg, but when i go on pvp, and a trickster rogue comes out of stealth and 1 hits me three times in a row right out of the campsite, thats disgustingly overpowered.
and meanwhile running through dungeons with my friends, my cleric buddy out damages me, my guardian buddy out damages me, two classes that are definitely not supposed to be more dps than a two handed warrior class.
i understand that the mages and the rogues are better dps because thats their class type, but a tank and healer out damages a dps/tank is not ok.
guardians have better health and defense, rogues and mages have better damage and survivability. and what do great sword fighters have? aoe atks that do very little damage, where the only advantage we have is being able to damage multiple targets. and even the mages have that with better dps.
bottom line, gwfs need a damage buff, im tired of being outclassed by tanks and healers in damage. and tired of being 1 hitted multiple times by rogues that gwfs cant even damage because of all the dodging, bunny hopping, and stealth.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
GWF has three specs, not 1. And two of them are not really off-tank-ish. :rolleyes:
Well its just too lol 90% gwfs make fully glass cannon dps builds and complaining about unstopable is too weak.
It is indeed if you have low HP and no dr, defense at all and none sentinel feat...
Comments
[sarcasm]Naa I think GWF should be able to fight 10 rogues same time, throwin them all over the map like a BAWS[/sarcasm].
Maybe rogue's dmg should be a bit nerfed but what you are sayin is just... wow
no.. this game is based on D&D and the GWF is a striker.. a dps build.. and have the highest damage of whole D&D (after barbarian of course) the rogues... have good dps... but far faaaar away from the high burst of a GWF... and in this game GWF dont have this BURST... lol
lol and here come the nerd... u.u ahha XP listen.. play real D&D and tell me if rogues! do more damage than GWF! lol yes have the highest HPs highest burst of the game yeah this is a warrior.... -.- in evry game... rogue is a speed class difficult to play wich can do damage from sthealted and play all on stuns and poisons and do the best DPS(not burst). rogues never had the best burst... go to see Guild wars... Wow.. ecc... warrior have best burst with best resistence in evry game...
GWF is a defender in DnD.
This class relies on brute strength alone to overcome the enemies. They are warriors who sacrifice shields in favor of large two-handed weapons. this is the manual of 4a -.- warrior is a defender not the gwf path...
Maybe so. But they also shouldnt match a rogues dps only when that damage is added up from hitting 4 targets at once.
A personal attack was not nessecary at all. There was no need to call them a moron.
Fighters can still do good-excellent damage in 4e though. Right now GWFs sacrifice all their nice survivability perks for really, really, really lackluster damage.
Paragon paths don't change the role of the classes, what are you talking about? I'm very confused. No one said he doesn't do damage. No one said he's defensive-specced or weak. I'm just saying he's a defender. Which he is.
Thats the problem. Everyone says we are AOE - we are not. We do less damage over multiple targets. Considering that we do hardly any real dps on single, when we do less on multiple its horrendous. Why do you think everyone complains about Dungeons adds are so overpowered? Because the GWF is not able to take them down in resonable order as is inteded.
AOE is a LARGE circle... like the ROGUE (and more so CW) AOE function. It' NOT standing in the middle of several mobs and swinging in less than a 3/4 arc (thats not 360 degreed duh) while putting yourself at combat DISADVANTAGE to do so.....
CHAPTER 2 | Making Characters
(information on page 16 along w/ability scores)
Defender (Fighter, Paladin)
Defenders have the highest defenses in the game and
good close-up offense. They are the party’s front-line
combatants; wherever they’re standing, that’s where
the action is. Defenders have abilities and powers that
make it difficult for enemies to move past them or to
ignore them in battle.
Striker (Ranger, Rogue, Warlock)
Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage
to a single target at a time. They have the most concentrated
offense of any character in the game. Strikers rely
on superior mobility, trickery, or magic to move around
tough foes and single out the enemy they want to attack.
Paragon Path for GWF currently in game is SWORDMASTER (page 88 of PHB 4E)
GWF isn't a striker. It is a defender since it is a Fighter. GW is simply the weapon, (which is a two-handed weapon instead of traditional sword and board or even dual wield). Doesn't really matter because as long as the class is a Fighter it will always be (according to the rules used here 4e) a Defender role. If paladins ever come in they too will be Defenders. Barbs will be the only striker using a 2 hander per 4e.
(Barbarians are covered in Player's handbook 2 for 4e starting on page 48).
It is a silly argument when it is all too easy to find a copy of the PHB to either prove or disprove the matter but to sit and continually argue fighters are strikers is silly when the PHB states otherwise.
Provide the material for 4e that changes this and then things change but since no proof/evidence has been submitted other than claims of "fighters have always been strikers". Fighters have always been fighters, a class that is offense and defense.
Rant all you want but the WotC material is what counts not anyone's opinion of what a class should be.
Neverwinter describes the GWF as striker primary, defender secondary, specializing in damaging multiple enemies.
Using unstoppable increases swing speed. Steel Blitz is worthless, I only use weapon master and destroyer for class feature.
And the less damage argument is somewhat true but I've not experienced it. I've got a very low crit on my GWF and still kick them out pretty often, most likely due to the class features used than anything else.
and meanwhile running through dungeons with my friends, my cleric buddy out damages me, my guardian buddy out damages me, two classes that are definitely not supposed to be more dps than a two handed warrior class.
i understand that the mages and the rogues are better dps because thats their class type, but a tank and healer out damages a dps/tank is not ok.
guardians have better health and defense, rogues and mages have better damage and survivability. and what do great sword fighters have? aoe atks that do very little damage, where the only advantage we have is being able to damage multiple targets. and even the mages have that with better dps.
bottom line, gwfs need a damage buff, im tired of being outclassed by tanks and healers in damage. and tired of being 1 hitted multiple times by rogues that gwfs cant even damage because of all the dodging, bunny hopping, and stealth.
BTW gwf can be top dps no easly.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Stopped reading.
GWF is an offtank...
And our CW friends are controllers, aren't they? Yet they go, ba-dum-tiss on people in pvp.
Well its just too lol 90% gwfs make fully glass cannon dps builds and complaining about unstopable is too weak.
It is indeed if you have low HP and no dr, defense at all and none sentinel feat...
Honest question: what's a GWF sentinel now? lol
And it's not doing that either.
Go figure.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.