Idk guys, I'm taking this a bit differently.
People actually have to DODGE now. Plus, with the ****ty returns on recovery for this CD, I'd take this as an opportunity to swap out some recovery for other stats like power or defense.
The question becomes "can your party survive 5 seconds without blue?"
EVERYONE has to play smarter now. Your party members have to use pots (which they should be doing anyway) and dodge a bit more.
YOU will have to pay attention to fights and know when the best time to put down the shield. That's going to take more concentration, and more skill. And we're a skillful bunch, yo.
So let's use the Preview to test out if parties can survive that 5 seconds. If you swap out some of that recovery for power, your heals should "hit" a bit harder to make up for it. Drop down to 3.5k recovery and then jack up your Power/Defense and see if it's really that much harder.
I'm curious, as someone posting officially from PW, are you often encouraged to make statements like "And we're a skillful bunch, yo"?
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iircMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited June 2013
Conclusion:
If the patch goes live without any changes, I don't know how many Clerics will quit but I'm pretty sure it's going to be alot, I feel like Clerics gets no love everywhere.
no Clerics = no Raids.......
Not sure that this is incorrect, however I would like to know which class we have more ability to survive than. A rogue can stealth away, a wizard can blink away, tanks are tanks. If I run I'm going to get mowed down, the slide doesn't get far enough away to get out of the range of much, and it takes a ton of stamina, so it's only a 2 shot thing. Currently standing still and holding holy ground while sliding back and forth behind other friendlies, tossing dots, nukes, forgemasters, etc is the only way to survive any length of time, and it takes a pretty fair amount of skill at that.
We shall see, also things will change for other classes after patch too. I don't pretend to be able to say how it's going to affect everything overall but CW and GF are the worst for me, and GF are getting a serious buff, that could be scary. Rogues aren't so bad unless they like 1-2 shot me, hopefully that's not going to happen so much anymore.
Obviously if we have 3 people ganging us we've got no chance without AS. I'm thinking that AS might not even end up in my bar for PVP post patch, but we shall see. Something along the lines of FF, Break Spirit and chains or sunburst most likely. Not the best survivability but then we don't have a lot of great powers for surviving longer, but at least that should deal out decent dmg and have some dmg and control capabilities.
I'd say sure a rogue can stealth away but if he doesn't have it he's dead meat pretty much, wizards are def better just because the blink + their cc powers mean than can effecitvely take on two players at the same time, of course if you can stun them then you can insta nuke them down, so squishy. GF it's hard to say, some are real tanky and some aren't i've also encountered a tone of dif play styles skill set ups from GF's. GWF is probably the worst atm but will be way dif during patch, GWF sprint with a +110% mount is just unfair though sometimes. I'd also point out that our slide acts as a dodge too, not just in terms of getting out of way of spells etc, but if you use it right when they cast they will miss with the spell.
Finally I feel there a few feats that are really useful in pvp but at least currently they don't line up with what I need for PVE, we'll see how things turn out post patch. These feats would be power of the sun, power of oppression and healing step. Nimbus of light could b interesting too
I wonder what does "everyone has to play smarter" mean.
Should i increase my INT? is 19 int enough?
Because if you mean dodging i'm just gonna rofl on your face. The only damage thats avoidable in this **** game is that coming from the BIG RED CIRCLES. The rest of the damage is not aviodable, even by running like mad, mobs seem to have a higher run speed or a wider reach than a sniper. YOU CANNOT AVOID AS MUCH DAMAGE to survive 5 seconds without some kind of damage mitigation or powerful healing.
We just have to think positive then. Yes i do agree that the AS uptime nerf would really hurt but one thing that could possibly be a trade off would be the cd reduction. Breakpoints/DR may change with the new patch, not to mention new gear that would really dish out bigger stats. We have to take into considertion that the initial phase for every patch/expansion is design to make our lives a living hell. Once you go end game on that patch, you start to be comfortable and be OP again. Dont worry too much guys.
It sounds like you're guessing at things you can just go test on the preview shard? We have received basically NO buffs to offset the AS nerf - don't expect Gauntlgrym gear to be much/at all better than current gear - it's still only a t1 and a t2 dungeon (unless they add new set gear that's not bugged/terrible).
There's several bugs they need to fix (Healing Word not being affected by recharge speed) and several skill that need some massive buffs (Bastion of Health cooldown is absolutely laughable compared to other skills that do more healing AND do damage (Sunburst and Forgemaster's)).
There's several feats we have that are so terrible, I'm not sure why they're in the game. 1% of your power stat as crit stat... for 5 feat points? The amount of face slapping that we clerics get is second to none.
The only reason most of this makes me so upset is because they seem to just make knee-jerk changes and not even test/care about them.
Cryptic - I have a bunch of free time during the evenings, I'd gladly test your changes for you and report to you what works and what doesn't. Not that I don't now, but maybe if I say something here, you'll actually listen.
Yeah, it's time to just cancel and delete the account.
I spent real money on the game, yeah. I am ashamed to admit that I poured any of my hard-earned cash into this sinking ship, but I was hopeful because I was having fun initially.
Now it's a bleak outlook. Clerics are being punished because they asked for support in the terribly designed end-game encounters, and all we received was a kick in the balls, a pat on the back and a "go get 'em, son" from the devs. In other words; we asked for help and were given nerfs instead.
This game is dying, so I am just going to jump ship now.
So long, everyone. It was fun while it lasted. For the most part, the community is good here. I will miss it.
I'm with you guys hoping for Cryptic to cancel the AS nerf, but hey, If they do push through with it then bring it on. We'd get progress complaining if this was P2P, but its F2P so we just have to move on.
Idk guys, I'm taking this a bit differently.
People actually have to DODGE now. Plus, with the ****ty returns on recovery for this CD, I'd take this as an opportunity to swap out some recovery for other stats like power or defense.
Cool, so you fixed dodge ? You know the atrocious lag and rubber-banding that makes it nearly impossible to dodge most stuff on EU (around 100-200 latency, depending on how bad the server is that day).
Yeah, recently, I started doing PvP and I was surprised actually I liked it a lot. I think I'm one of those few that are really looking forward to Gauntlgrym now. The issue really is that even now, when I'm playing against experienced team that can communicate (2+ CW is enough), I can't really do all that much for my team. Once they realise I'm not just a filler DC that just hitted 60 and tried his 1st PvP match, they just focus me down and there is litteraly nothing I can do about it.
After the patch, I can almost hear their TS now - "AS down, focus down that bit* now..."
So I guess it's gonna be like that FH boss fight, I will just run try to buy some time for my party to actually do something lol..
edit: Don't get me wrong, I like challanges. I'm just curious how many Clerics will quit. I myself can stand a lot, I don't mind playing underpowered class. I'm just curious where is the limit for other people and for me, hopefully they are not going to hit it.
For PvP, just don't display the AS ring to enemies..
yeah, that's sort of how it'll be with me.
there will be no AS ring to display at all.... since it's pretty much useless in pvp if can't guarantee 100% uptime. Even with 100% uptime clerics still die pretty easily from CW/TR (and by easily i mean 2 hit KOed)
I think the suggestion was to make AS invisible to the other team, so they'd have to guess when to strike rather that go "k lads: I spot a shield! 10 sec from now, spike that poor bugger"
Umm, not sure what you mean by that.. I guess you are joking, right?
Not joking
I meant that in pvp, since it would be quite obvious when to focus down the opponent's cleric, if you can see the blue circle, why not make it so the opponent team can't see it? Or hide any of the beneficial buffs really from any class.
Not joking
I meant that in pvp, since it would be quite obvious when to focus down the opponent's cleric, if you can see the blue circle, why not make it so the opponent team can't see it? Or hide any of the beneficial buffs really from any class.
That is interesting idea, but I don't think something like this would go through. I mean, after all, it's really powerfull spell with large impact over large area for all players standing in it. So if we cut the high-end hardcore PvPers, we might find most casual players having problems with this.
Yep - looks like they're really paying attention to what the players have been saying about the changes to AS in particular, and the Cleric class in general, on the Preview server:
pissed I spent money on this game, happy I didn't spend nearly as much as some people did. It's a known fact, you destroy the enjoyment/playability of your support classes in MMO's then the MMO WILL DIE because there will be little to no support classes playing. No support classes = no group content = frustrated DPS/Tank classes = people stop logging on = dead game.
Hope that sums it up for you Developers. It's your move but know this; if you screw your healers over then you will wreck your game. Also most people's attention span's are such that once you screw them over they don't look back regardless if you "fix" your screw ups latter! Think hard before you screw us healers.
Not saying I agree with this nerf, but, after testing out my GF in a full on tank spec on the preview server, not the dps one most use on live, I think what they're trying to do is make the GF more needed. I take a lot more damage now that the feats actually work and have a feat to take even more damage for 7 seconds that's on a 15 second CD. Throw on a heal over time during that period and that added 10% reduction thing you clerics have, I'd think a tank that's actually a tank will be ok. So, for 5mans this may not be as bad as it seems.
That said, I'm not so sure about solo/pvp for the cleric class with this nerf...
You think that being able to cast two dailies simultaneously is an intended mechanic?
No, I get that. I honestly do. But would it kill them to BOOST some of our weaker spells/abilities a little to compensate for all the recent "balancing"?
You think that being able to cast two dailies simultaneously is an intended mechanic?
what 2 simultaneous daily?
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warsirenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
Tommorw we see how bad it really is.. changes reach the general population, the people that havn't played the test shard.... So it begins...
Below from the Neverwinter Facebook Page.
"We will be performing maintenance on all Neverwinter shards tomorrow morning to apply the "Balance and Gameplay" update from Preview to the live shard.
No, I get that. I honestly do. But would it kill them to BOOST some of our weaker spells/abilities a little to compensate for all the recent "balancing"?
What is important is whether we are balanced after the patch, not whether we are at the same power level as before it.
I'm not claiming that we will be perfectly balanced, but the general MMO design ethos that the important thing about a patch is that it fixes and improves things.
The "nerf" that Pnellson was complaining about was the removal of our ability to cast Flamestrike and Guardian of Faith at the same time from the same Action Points.
Idk guys, I'm taking this a bit differently.
People actually have to DODGE now. Plus, with the ****ty returns on recovery for this CD, I'd take this as an opportunity to swap out some recovery for other stats like power or defense.
The question becomes "can your party survive 5 seconds without blue?"
EVERYONE has to play smarter now. Your party members have to use pots (which they should be doing anyway) and dodge a bit more.
YOU will have to pay attention to fights and know when the best time to put down the shield. That's going to take more concentration, and more skill. And we're a skillful bunch, yo.
So let's use the Preview to test out if parties can survive that 5 seconds. If you swap out some of that recovery for power, your heals should "hit" a bit harder to make up for it. Drop down to 3.5k recovery and then jack up your Power/Defense and see if it's really that much harder.
The problem with "everyone has to play smarter..has to dodge.." Is...all well and good for people that frequent these forums and read patch notes. For people that just log into game and play, and oh boy there are tons of them, they are going to look at the DCs in their group and say, wtf? Wheres the healing? Wheres that blue floor stuff that is awsome? How come youre not casting/healing? Boot the afk DC. "
Trust me, only a small percentage of any MMO community visits the forum, and only a certain percentage reads patch notes. For the puggers I will be grouping with, Im willing to bet half of them will wonder why they are dying so quickly every 10 seconds. Well, read the patch notes and youll see that our #1 pride and joy ability has been "nerfed"..rather corrected.
I also will miss the smoothness of healing as a DC. After 15 seconds, you know youre casting Ashield again. Nice and smooth..people live as long as they are able to stay in the circle. Now, the "rotation" or gameplay will feel a bit disjointed, clunky...during that chaotic 5 seconds, we'll all be doding and running for our lives(because DCs already run for our lives). I'll forget that I have to live only 5 more seconds to cast ashield..by the time i remember to do so, 10 seconds go by.
Overall, this will just infuse clunky disjointed gameplay into a smooth playing class.
I also will miss the smoothness of healing as a DC. After 15 seconds, you know youre casting Ashield again. Nice and smooth..people live as long as they are able to stay in the circle. Now, the "rotation" or gameplay will feel a bit disjointed, clunky...during that chaotic 5 seconds, we'll all be doding and running for our lives(because DCs already run for our lives). I'll forget that I have to live only 5 more seconds to cast ashield..by the time i remember to do so, 10 seconds go by.
Overall, this will just infuse clunky disjointed gameplay into a smooth playing class.
I am hoping if the aggro issues are sorted out then we won't having the running around problem any more in fact I hope the other classes feel the Cleric pain of being chased all over the place I hope AS or other heals don't override everyone else's aggro... we will see after the patch
Comments
I'm curious, as someone posting officially from PW, are you often encouraged to make statements like "And we're a skillful bunch, yo"?
If the patch goes live without any changes, I don't know how many Clerics will quit but I'm pretty sure it's going to be alot, I feel like Clerics gets no love everywhere.
no Clerics = no Raids.......
Good luck with game progression.
We shall see, also things will change for other classes after patch too. I don't pretend to be able to say how it's going to affect everything overall but CW and GF are the worst for me, and GF are getting a serious buff, that could be scary. Rogues aren't so bad unless they like 1-2 shot me, hopefully that's not going to happen so much anymore.
Obviously if we have 3 people ganging us we've got no chance without AS. I'm thinking that AS might not even end up in my bar for PVP post patch, but we shall see. Something along the lines of FF, Break Spirit and chains or sunburst most likely. Not the best survivability but then we don't have a lot of great powers for surviving longer, but at least that should deal out decent dmg and have some dmg and control capabilities.
I'd say sure a rogue can stealth away but if he doesn't have it he's dead meat pretty much, wizards are def better just because the blink + their cc powers mean than can effecitvely take on two players at the same time, of course if you can stun them then you can insta nuke them down, so squishy. GF it's hard to say, some are real tanky and some aren't i've also encountered a tone of dif play styles skill set ups from GF's. GWF is probably the worst atm but will be way dif during patch, GWF sprint with a +110% mount is just unfair though sometimes. I'd also point out that our slide acts as a dodge too, not just in terms of getting out of way of spells etc, but if you use it right when they cast they will miss with the spell.
Finally I feel there a few feats that are really useful in pvp but at least currently they don't line up with what I need for PVE, we'll see how things turn out post patch. These feats would be power of the sun, power of oppression and healing step. Nimbus of light could b interesting too
Should i increase my INT? is 19 int enough?
Because if you mean dodging i'm just gonna rofl on your face. The only damage thats avoidable in this **** game is that coming from the BIG RED CIRCLES. The rest of the damage is not aviodable, even by running like mad, mobs seem to have a higher run speed or a wider reach than a sniper. YOU CANNOT AVOID AS MUCH DAMAGE to survive 5 seconds without some kind of damage mitigation or powerful healing.
I want this class in NW.
There's several bugs they need to fix (Healing Word not being affected by recharge speed) and several skill that need some massive buffs (Bastion of Health cooldown is absolutely laughable compared to other skills that do more healing AND do damage (Sunburst and Forgemaster's)).
There's several feats we have that are so terrible, I'm not sure why they're in the game. 1% of your power stat as crit stat... for 5 feat points? The amount of face slapping that we clerics get is second to none.
The only reason most of this makes me so upset is because they seem to just make knee-jerk changes and not even test/care about them.
Cryptic - I have a bunch of free time during the evenings, I'd gladly test your changes for you and report to you what works and what doesn't. Not that I don't now, but maybe if I say something here, you'll actually listen.
I spent real money on the game, yeah. I am ashamed to admit that I poured any of my hard-earned cash into this sinking ship, but I was hopeful because I was having fun initially.
Now it's a bleak outlook. Clerics are being punished because they asked for support in the terribly designed end-game encounters, and all we received was a kick in the balls, a pat on the back and a "go get 'em, son" from the devs. In other words; we asked for help and were given nerfs instead.
This game is dying, so I am just going to jump ship now.
So long, everyone. It was fun while it lasted. For the most part, the community is good here. I will miss it.
newbie rogue extraordinaire
Cool, so you fixed dodge ? You know the atrocious lag and rubber-banding that makes it nearly impossible to dodge most stuff on EU (around 100-200 latency, depending on how bad the server is that day).
After the patch, I can almost hear their TS now - "AS down, focus down that bit* now..."
So I guess it's gonna be like that FH boss fight, I will just run try to buy some time for my party to actually do something lol..
edit: Don't get me wrong, I like challanges. I'm just curious how many Clerics will quit. I myself can stand a lot, I don't mind playing underpowered class. I'm just curious where is the limit for other people and for me, hopefully they are not going to hit it.
Umm, not sure what you mean by that.. I guess you are joking, right?
yeah, that's sort of how it'll be with me.
there will be no AS ring to display at all.... since it's pretty much useless in pvp if can't guarantee 100% uptime. Even with 100% uptime clerics still die pretty easily from CW/TR (and by easily i mean 2 hit KOed)
Not joking
I meant that in pvp, since it would be quite obvious when to focus down the opponent's cleric, if you can see the blue circle, why not make it so the opponent team can't see it? Or hide any of the beneficial buffs really from any class.
That is interesting idea, but I don't think something like this would go through. I mean, after all, it's really powerfull spell with large impact over large area for all players standing in it. So if we cut the high-end hardcore PvPers, we might find most casual players having problems with this.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?341281-Release-Notes-NW-3-20130529a-4
Sigh... The only change specifically for Devoted Clerics is yet another nerf.
3 charges. 15s CD each charge (afected by recovery PLEASE?). That way we would actually use that skill. As it is now it's just a really bad joke.
I want this class in NW.
Hope that sums it up for you Developers. It's your move but know this; if you screw your healers over then you will wreck your game. Also most people's attention span's are such that once you screw them over they don't look back regardless if you "fix" your screw ups latter! Think hard before you screw us healers.
That said, I'm not so sure about solo/pvp for the cleric class with this nerf...
No, I get that. I honestly do. But would it kill them to BOOST some of our weaker spells/abilities a little to compensate for all the recent "balancing"?
I think that the main issues of cleric. well, starting to build something "not mainstream" with cleric hope its working
what 2 simultaneous daily?
Below from the Neverwinter Facebook Page.
"We will be performing maintenance on all Neverwinter shards tomorrow morning to apply the "Balance and Gameplay" update from Preview to the live shard.
When does it begin? http://bit.ly/13D3JVD
What are the changes/patch notes? http://bit.ly/17IgKSc
Where can I stay updated during maintenance? http://bit.ly/16fL9UC "
I'm not claiming that we will be perfectly balanced, but the general MMO design ethos that the important thing about a patch is that it fixes and improves things.
The "nerf" that Pnellson was complaining about was the removal of our ability to cast Flamestrike and Guardian of Faith at the same time from the same Action Points.
The problem with "everyone has to play smarter..has to dodge.." Is...all well and good for people that frequent these forums and read patch notes. For people that just log into game and play, and oh boy there are tons of them, they are going to look at the DCs in their group and say, wtf? Wheres the healing? Wheres that blue floor stuff that is awsome? How come youre not casting/healing? Boot the afk DC. "
Trust me, only a small percentage of any MMO community visits the forum, and only a certain percentage reads patch notes. For the puggers I will be grouping with, Im willing to bet half of them will wonder why they are dying so quickly every 10 seconds. Well, read the patch notes and youll see that our #1 pride and joy ability has been "nerfed"..rather corrected.
Overall, this will just infuse clunky disjointed gameplay into a smooth playing class.
I am hoping if the aggro issues are sorted out then we won't having the running around problem any more in fact I hope the other classes feel the Cleric pain of being chased all over the place