Imo, classes got messed up because PWE have never tested things for themselves. This is a fact. If they did then they are retarted. Here is my reasoning. After 5 minutes of playing the game i could pick out obvious flaws (GWF compared to TR) that have not been addressed, even in recent patches.
On the other hand (worse for PWE imo), in the event that they did test the game after every patch (have atleast ONE person from company play and report things to you) and picked up on all the flaws (imbalance, glitches, exploits ect) then they did not have the KNOWLEDGE or manpower to fix it. Soooo. yea i'm sticking to non PWE games. GLad i didn't buy founders HOLY HAMSTER talk about overpriced and worthless due to exploits ruining economy and no rollback
0
ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The GWF should do the MOST damage in the game per hit (encounter and at wills); the very idea of the class is to sacrifice everything for damage (all out strength, all out weapon size, w/e is more destructive/damaging is what defines the class).
I don't think that's the idea of the class at all.
Wow embrace you must really love this game to still be playing and complaining on the forums every single day! And surprise surprise!! to find you in another TR QQ thread!
GWF is the most useless class atm. In PvP its not even a joke. It's sad.
Trying to find a group for T1 or T2 as a GWF is just lolz. Noone in their sane mind would bring a GWF over a TR or a CW.
I would take a gwf any day. But only my guildy one since for some reason 80% of the GWF's struggle so much in this game.
Single target DPS don't mean **** when you have 20 elite adds.
That goes for pvp as well.
Imo, classes got messed up because PWE have never tested things for themselves. This is a fact. If they did then they are retarted. Here is my reasoning. After 5 minutes of playing the game i could pick out obvious flaws (GWF compared to TR) that have not been addressed, even in recent patches.
On the other hand (worse for PWE imo), in the event that they did test the game after every patch (have atleast ONE person from company play and report things to you) and picked up on all the flaws (imbalance, glitches, exploits ect) then they did not have the KNOWLEDGE or manpower to fix it. Soooo. yea i'm sticking to non PWE games. GLad i didn't buy founders HOLY HAMSTER talk about overpriced and worthless due to exploits ruining economy and no rollback
No the classes ain't messed up. The gear differences and the ability to PAY TO WIN is messed up. But at the same time who cares, pvp is just a side quest in this game anyways. As much fun it is, it's hardly challenging or difficult considering you have about 6 buttons to press with 3 you press every 10 seconds.
I'm sorry the game wasn't up to your standards Titanv2. But oh well I hope you find your fun in whatever future game you play! Have fun and take care!
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
I don't think that's the idea of the class at all.
What an ignorant comment. Who is the GWF?
... "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need."
No the classes ain't messed up. The gear differences and the ability to PAY TO WIN is messed up. But at the same time who cares, pvp is just a side quest in this game anyways. As much fun it is, it's hardly challenging or difficult considering you have about 6 buttons to press with 3 you press every 10 seconds.
I'm sorry the game wasn't up to your standards Titanv2. But oh well I hope you find your fun in whatever future game you play! Have fun and take care!
No, the classes aint messed up?
You realize you cared enough to type an apostrophe inside a word that doesn't exist, you must have totally forgotten the correct word which in this case is, isn't. Your vocabulary speaks volumes on your competence when it comes to medial, insignificant tasks. I wonder how well it demonstrates your intelligence over all? One can only guess. Though if I were to ever take someone's opinion I would be sure to never side with the guy who sounds like a complete fool when responding to someone who has made a well thought out post.
As for the comment on 'pay to win', just lol.. stop being a HAMSTER child and wake up to real life. The whole HAMSTER world is pay to win. Sorry you cant steal your mothers credit card every 20 minutes you want to buy something from the zen store. Companies need money, especially companies who released a FREE game to people who demand everything but dont even fork over a HAMSTER dollar to support the game. Then ***** when updates arent being released within their 'schedules'
Whether you believe it or not, the classes ARE 'messed up' though the overall impact on Cryptic and PWE's oversight in to the matter is a little over the top. I actually read about 10 pages of this thread and still fully agree with OP's original post. The TR's damage should remain the same only while in stealth, CA, or behind their target. Outside those boundries however I would agree that the damage needs to be at least cut in half.
GWF has some great abilities, so great in fact I believe it was Cryptic/PWE's intent to release this character "low" and build him up with demand from the community. If the GWF came off the shelf with crazy damage I dont think the game would really be that fun for them. I can just see it now, children from all over the world getting on their computers after a hard day at high school, logging in to the neverwinter forums and crying their little undies off over how OP the gwf is.
Dont take my opinion for fact, please. Im just saying this after building a teifling rogue to 60, an elf control wiz to 60, a halfling gwf to 60, a human cleric to 60 and now a half orc rogue in progress.
This game is based on D&D 4e, ppl here obviously have either never played 4e or just try to ignore the truth,
Anyone that has played understands the simple fact that the GWF is NOT the class that has the big damage output, the big damage is the rogue class,
A Rogue does the big damage and his defence is being constantly on the move and stealth, a GWF is there to stand his ground while doing moderate damage against many foes.
A GWF is a defensive class with that has slightly more damage output but slightly less defence than a pure defender.
This though is obvious to anyone that has played 4e rule set.
If you came to this game thinking that tanks are the big damage dealers like in some other games then you are sadly mistaken , this is D&D 4e, the rules are not the same.
Or perhaps my interpretation of 4e is different than others but the many games I have played and dm'd might just be well ........
HEY I have a GWF and I hit like a little girl in a yellow flower dress with a large teddy bear as my weapon. I can deal 200 damage to normal creatures and maybe 100 or less to a boss, it also takes me a year to kill tougher mobs there is nothing wrong with GWF....LOL
You realize you cared enough to type an apostrophe inside a word that doesn't exist, you must have totally forgotten the correct word which in this case is, isn't. Your vocabulary speaks volumes on your competence when it comes to medial, insignificant tasks. I wonder how well it demonstrates your intelligence over all? One can only guess. Though if I were to ever take someone's opinion I would be sure to never side with the guy who sounds like a complete fool when responding to someone who has made a well thought out post.
*etc, etc, etc*
As a grammar HAMSTER myself, I have to state off-topic, that ain't, as in aren't, is completely correct. Now your suggestion, the classes "isn't" messed up, is another issue...
Wow embrace you must really love this game to still be playing and complaining on the forums every single day! And surprise surprise!! to find you in another TR QQ thread!
I would take a gwf any day. But only my guildy one since for some reason 80% of the GWF's struggle so much in this game.
Single target DPS don't mean **** when you have 20 elite adds.
That goes for pvp as well.
No the classes ain't messed up. The gear differences and the ability to PAY TO WIN is messed up. But at the same time who cares, pvp is just a side quest in this game anyways. As much fun it is, it's hardly challenging or difficult considering you have about 6 buttons to press with 3 you press every 10 seconds.
I'm sorry the game wasn't up to your standards Titanv2. But oh well I hope you find your fun in whatever future game you play! Have fun and take care!
Are you serious? A CW would be a much better choice if it comes down to AOE.
The GWF is fairly good at AOE damage, but the GWFs AOE at will attacks in PVP is a complete and utter joke. It's impossible to kill a priest, its impossible to kill a rogue beacuse of the damage the rogue does. You cant dish out tons of AOE damage in PvP beacuse a good enemy rogue will know that the GWF will be the easiest target to kill.
Trust me on this. Try playing a GWF to 60 and then go PvP. Your a meatshield for 2 seconds, you dont do any damage at all.
Trust me on this. Try playing a GWF to 60 and then go PvP. Your a meatshield for 2 seconds, you dont do any damage at all.
Only if you suck.
If you know how to play and have good gear on the other hand you destroy all before you in a few swings- just like every other class does that is geared at level 60.
0
ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
... "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need.
...which does not automatically translate to "top DPS", you're making too many assumptions.
Also, if this game is still based on DnD, and if you cared to look into it, then GWF is still a fighter class, which is a defender class. So their option to go striker is somewhat secondary.
I play both and I halfway agree with the OP. One hit of a GWF should hurt a lot more than one hit of a TR, but the TR gets to do more of them at the same time. I wouldn't dare to suggest what kind of balance that would need, but basically it should be around the same Damage Per Second.
Right now it's nowhere near that, the TR does a lot more damage. But the solution, IMHO, is not to nerf the TR's DPS count by nerfing the bleed damage they do, but by having the GWF have more base damage but with a small bonus when 1v1 and a small deduction when 1vmany.
The OP is trying to make sense in a fantasy game? Trying to bring in rules of real life in a video game? GWF is not suppose to have the highest damage out put period, end of story, get over it. Your role which you don't do very good at the moment is to kill adds. If you tried to bring in real world logic in this game try to swing a huge heavy *** sword around for an entire battle and never get tired? In the game you never tire and you swing it really fast that makes so much since. Sorry in the real world a skilled dagger user that could stealth would stab you in the jug and the fight would be over. There is no realism in this video game of magic and dragons. Strenght does not mean you always do the most damage. Sure you can hit something hard, but being percise(dex) you can make an attack that can kill in one shot. Instead of looking at it as damage look at it as a skilled death blow. You get to wear better armor than a TR be happy. You get to do lots of AoE damage be happy. You get to do alot of CC...be happy. But you aren't happy and you continue to rage because you probably just don't understand your class. But be happy you are getting buffed up and TR's are getting nerf'd. You sir fail at video games. People that rage about other classes need to take a good long look at how you play the class. If I played a cleric and raged that couldn't kill anyone I am playing the class wrong as I should be trying to keep everyone alive. If you are a GWF and get face HAMSTER by a rogue you are playing it wrong. 1v1 isn't what you were made to do. But many GWF are pretty **** good 1v1. You just suck as a GWF please delete the game and try something else.
0
nagellanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
I think it's fairly obvious that the classes do need help especially within PvP. Regardless of what DnD rules say... this is a game and the facts are really clear. Rogues right now can hit ARMORED opponents as if they have nothing on. I'm full T2 loaded out GWF and will never win a battle against a rogue regardless of me getting a drop on them... yes the stupid once at the flag who don't see me horse leap on their head with a opener takedown, flourish, MWS, + Cresendo and I'll be lucky LUCKY to take 50%. (And i'm talking equally geared as yes I can kill bots in the droves... honest!) That's pure broken. If a rogue blows his full load I'm not only dead I'm DEAD... 37k Crits etc. My 23k health melts.
For you rogues out there I know how it is... you don't want to see your class touched etc... but frankly PvP must be fixed and there is no doubt that even PVE is underwhelming for a GWF.
All classes must be important in the game else something is broken and that's the job behind this company actually balancing the game-play.
Rogues can do literally everything, people say that rogues don't do well with AoE... really? That's not what I've seen granted not as great as a CW, the Rogue has teleport, he has a range weapon that literally has taken 12K from me before the fight is even engaged and you can't even see them. But now hear me out...
So lets say I'm trying to defend the objective... you know because a GWF is a defender... oh yea right...
Next thing I know I lose 10K of my health from daggers at range...
I then try to locate that source, oh look jesus a rogue... then I try and land something on him which frankly if a GWF hits a rogue that rogue has been outplayed... but I get to the rogue and I'm like... "Yo Motha F#%#%" then I hit him with my Ancient Castle sword my 39% Crit chance, my 9400 Power... and oh... it doesn't hit it's deflected... over and over and oh let me use everybit of my specials and I've taken 10k... then I get destroyed and pee'd on (I'm really not into that sort of thing) as if I wasn't there.
Rogues, were supposed to be designed to kill clothies with that ease. NOT "defenders".
PvP is severely broken and I do hope that Cryptic takes fixing it seriously because frankly why would anyone play anything other than a rogue or a CW in PvP? It needs balancing.
Realism isn't required in this game... but balancing the aspects of character choice and making sure they have valuable roles to play in PvP for each class is essential else you end up with polarized populations playing the same **** thing.
I play both and I halfway agree with the OP. One hit of a GWF should hurt a lot more than one hit of a TR, but the TR gets to do more of them at the same time. I wouldn't dare to suggest what kind of balance that would need, but basically it should be around the same Damage Per Second.
Right now it's nowhere near that, the TR does a lot more damage. But the solution, IMHO, is not to nerf the TR's DPS count by nerfing the bleed damage they do, but by having the GWF have more base damage but with a small bonus when 1v1 and a small deduction when 1vmany.
But the whole point of the GWF is aoe damage. It's designed to keep mobs of squishy targets in dungeons. It's not designed to excel in one on one fights. That is literally the rogues only role.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Why will dps-player never be satisfied until their chosen class deals the most damage out of all classes, in all situations? It's always the same story. There are single-target dps classes and there are AoE-dps classes. GWF is the latter. They will never out-damage single-target dps classes on single targets.
The fact is that a rogue hitting ONE target in a group of lets say ten mobs (usually more), still does more damage overall than a GWF going to town on all those targets. So a single-target dps does more damage than an AoE-taget dps, even though it is an AoE fight.
This is just plain wrong if you ask me.
But the whole point of the GWF is aoe damage. It's designed to keep mobs of squishy targets in dungeons. It's not designed to excel in one on one fights. That is literally the rogues only role.
I think I didn't make my point clearly enough then. The only difference between a 1v1 and a 1vMany fight is how many opponents you hit at the same time. I wasn't talking total DPS on all opponents, just on one. And then a GWF simply doesn't do nearly the damage a TR does.
Simply put, for every one strike of the GWF the TR gets three (just an example). The problem I think is that that one strike is just very underpowered compared to the damage output of those three. I don't see how reduced cooldowns affect that lack of base damage.
I actually leveled a GWF to 60 since everybody was complaining. I was very disappointed to reach level 60 and be top dps (sometimes second when GS is lacking) all the time. What servers are you guys playing on? Either people on my server really don't know how to play or people complaining about GWF don't know how to play a GWF
I actually leveled a GWF to 60 since everybody was complaining. I was very disappointed to reach level 60 and be top dps (sometimes second when GS is lacking) all the time. What servers are you guys playing on? Either people on my server really don't know how to play or people complaining about GWF don't know how to play a GWF
have you ran some epic dungeons with said GWF against similarly geared TRs or CWs? if not then please don't post here.
i've seen GWF in full T2 + Ancient weapon set doing less damage than me with T1/T2 and drake sword. he even got instigator spec and i am destroyer. he should do more AoE damage than me by far but he did not.
so there are some useless players. but generally GWF is weakest class in game now. don't know after patch did not play yet.
Gosh no one is ever happy, TR's have been nerfd, GWF have been buffed (ridiculously if you ask me) So just know Great Weapon Fighters that every one will now be targeting you in PVP lets see how many hits you get in!!
The GWF should do the MOST damage in the game per hit (encounter and at wills); the very idea of the class is to sacrifice everything for damage (all out strength, all out weapon size, w/e is more destructive/damaging is what defines the class). In other words, they should be at the top of the damage meter with ease YET what we see is they are near the bottom. How could this very simple class been messed up so badly?
Rogues: should do the least damage in the game ESPECIALLY when compared to a GWF. Rogues are trying to cause damage with glorified knives...which aren't even long enough to be able to penetrate through the hides of some of the monsters in DnD let alone do any meaningful damage. I disagree with the OP about that rogues should do alot of damage; the only reason he would have to say this is because if they didn't do good damage then they would be useless in groups however the alternative is even worse; to save rogues from obsolescence they have made them godly, dynamically abandoned any realism and doomed the GWF to be obsolete instead...how does this make any sense?? Even with the GWF extra aoe damage, Rogues are still BY FAR the highest damage dealers in the game makes the game laughable and ridiculous with what should be the weakest class in the game walking around as kings (esp. in pvp). Just look at pen and paper DnD: rogues had the fewest attacks, lowest to-hit bonuses, least damaging weapons, and the primary stats of the class never increased damage. Their usefulness in groups came from utility (disarming traps, stealth work, subterfuge, and supplemental damage). Their damage was rarely meaningful and ONLY if they got to apply their sneak attack bonuses which was very conditional and rightfully so. And even with sneak attack, they always fell short of the high damage fighters, ESPECIALLY all out strength great weapon types. And this says nothing about rogue survivability which is also all wrong in this game: rogues had a tiny amount of hit points and dropped almost as quickly as being looked at during team fights. This was balanced by higher reflex saves vs. aoe and traps in addition to their utility such as strategic positioning and sneakiness. Yet in this game we see rogues with fairly high hit point pools and general all round good survivability when just running recklessly into the fray; what could be more dumb than this??
This is all really common sense. Just try to stay true to DnD (and reality) and the balancing will be just fine. All GWF really needs (and needs badly) is a damage buff across the board; nothing should hit harder than them (encounters) and their at wills should pump out the highest dps in the game not to mention their aoe damage should be WAY higher than it currently is. Rogues need a big damage nerf which could be done several ways. I would suggest lowering their damage to sub-meaningful unless they have combat advantage, are stealthed, or are behind their target; this would simulate sneak attack damage which, at its best, should never surpass GWF damage. As is, a rogue can go toe to toe with a GWF and just flat out dps him down without even using stealth; the idea of that is just insanely ridiculous. A GWF should crush a rogue 1 v 1 for a joke. The only way a rogue should have a chance vs. a GWF 1 v 1 is if the rogues has a vast gear superiority, the GWF is already at 1/2 health and/or is partially afk. In otherwords, a rogue should NEVER be able to 1 v 1 a GWF. The very idea of a GWF is a slayer of rogues by the dozens; a GWF should laugh at the idea of fighting even two or 3 rogues; they are trying to beat him at his own game after all!! The stupidity of the current state of the game here can be well summarized by a joke I heard in game: "A rogue walks into a bar. There was no counter." There is a counter; its the GWF. The devs needs to inject a little realism and consistency so we can take this game more seriously and therefore better enjoy and recommend it.
Of course, there are lots of other problems with these 2 classes, such as GWF having no ranged attack while the rogue can throw daggers (in DnD, the fighter would be much more affective at doing this as well) and the fact that a GWF must sacrifice his best encounters if he wants to be able to slow or stun his target enough to damage it with his at wills while the target is trying to run therefore forcing gimp set-ups further exacerbating his low damage problem or facing the alternative of making it impossible to run down a kitting target which he can't kill anyway because his damage is so weak that he'll die before the wizard in cloth armor does....meanwhile, the rogue can slot his best encounters and still chase down kiters while keeping his full damage potential. Oh and then there is the rogue teleport ability which enables him to get up to ledges which he should never have but if it made sense for anyone to have it then it would be the GWF who is already hopelessly at the mercy of kiters...I'll stop here but BELIEVE ME I have more to say.
You want the REAL truth of the matter? GWFs don't give up a **** thing to do damage. How is having the highest mitigations and defensive skills/feats 'giving' up anything? As usual, the idiots that play warrior classes want everything. I find it amusing how you want the TR damage nerfed, but they have the second LOWEST mitigation in the game, the second LOWEST hps in the game, and they are the only PURE striker in the game. But, you and other morons like you, won't be happy until all fighters have the highest damage, hps, and mititgation. It's the same in every game. Warriors whining about everything. And as for 'kitchen knives'.....if you haven't noticed they are roughly 2-2.5 feet long. Where the **** have you seen kitchen knives that long?
It's like you have this obsession with the warrior class and if any class has or can do anything you can't....you cry. Oh, and a GWF should 'laugh' at facing 3 rogues? Really? No, that's not a huge ego at all. Again, proves my point that all you want is to be the most powerful of all the classes....childish...
I think I didn't make my point clearly enough then. The only difference between a 1v1 and a 1vMany fight is how many opponents you hit at the same time. I wasn't talking total DPS on all opponents, just on one. And then a GWF simply doesn't do nearly the damage a TR does.
Simply put, for every one strike of the GWF the TR gets three (just an example). The problem I think is that that one strike is just very underpowered compared to the damage output of those three. I don't see how reduced cooldowns affect that lack of base damage.
For about the billionth time....GWF is a striker/defender hybrid designed to AoE tank 'loose' mobs. You are NOT designed to do the dps of a pure striker. My god...how hard is that for people to fathom?
The fact is that a rogue hitting ONE target in a group of lets say ten mobs (usually more), still does more damage overall than a GWF going to town on all those targets. So a single-target dps does more damage than an AoE-taget dps, even though it is an AoE fight.
This is just plain wrong if you ask me.
Why is it wrong? In what rule book does it say that an AoE class should outdamage a ST class? Show me...
Imho, a good balance would be two striker classes, one focuses on ST and one on AoE. They both do the same damage in their role. Example: If TR hits for 1000, then the GWF should hit 5 targets for 200. Then calculate the attack speed. If the TR can hit 3 times to the GWFs 1 then increase the GWF damage accordingly. So now the TR hits for 1000/3 times and the GWF hits a group of 5 for 600 each. I'm not sure how someone can mess that up....or come to the odd conclusion that AoE classes should outdamage ST classses....
And the children want a class that has everything. Go ahead and tell everyone that you don't want the highest mitigations, hps and damage for your GWF/GF. Go ahead. Lying seems to be your strong point...
Comments
Does that mean that anyone can play a rogue in PvP? I wonder why is that...
So why is it that you are bad at it or would be bad at it if you played it?
Trying to find a group for T1 or T2 as a GWF is just lolz. Noone in their sane mind would bring a GWF over a TR or a CW.
On the other hand (worse for PWE imo), in the event that they did test the game after every patch (have atleast ONE person from company play and report things to you) and picked up on all the flaws (imbalance, glitches, exploits ect) then they did not have the KNOWLEDGE or manpower to fix it. Soooo. yea i'm sticking to non PWE games. GLad i didn't buy founders HOLY HAMSTER talk about overpriced and worthless due to exploits ruining economy and no rollback
I don't think that's the idea of the class at all.
Wow embrace you must really love this game to still be playing and complaining on the forums every single day! And surprise surprise!! to find you in another TR QQ thread!
I would take a gwf any day. But only my guildy one since for some reason 80% of the GWF's struggle so much in this game.
Single target DPS don't mean **** when you have 20 elite adds.
That goes for pvp as well.
No the classes ain't messed up. The gear differences and the ability to PAY TO WIN is messed up. But at the same time who cares, pvp is just a side quest in this game anyways. As much fun it is, it's hardly challenging or difficult considering you have about 6 buttons to press with 3 you press every 10 seconds.
I'm sorry the game wasn't up to your standards Titanv2. But oh well I hope you find your fun in whatever future game you play! Have fun and take care!
What an ignorant comment. Who is the GWF?
... "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need."
No, the classes aint messed up?
You realize you cared enough to type an apostrophe inside a word that doesn't exist, you must have totally forgotten the correct word which in this case is, isn't. Your vocabulary speaks volumes on your competence when it comes to medial, insignificant tasks. I wonder how well it demonstrates your intelligence over all? One can only guess. Though if I were to ever take someone's opinion I would be sure to never side with the guy who sounds like a complete fool when responding to someone who has made a well thought out post.
As for the comment on 'pay to win', just lol.. stop being a HAMSTER child and wake up to real life. The whole HAMSTER world is pay to win. Sorry you cant steal your mothers credit card every 20 minutes you want to buy something from the zen store. Companies need money, especially companies who released a FREE game to people who demand everything but dont even fork over a HAMSTER dollar to support the game. Then ***** when updates arent being released within their 'schedules'
Whether you believe it or not, the classes ARE 'messed up' though the overall impact on Cryptic and PWE's oversight in to the matter is a little over the top. I actually read about 10 pages of this thread and still fully agree with OP's original post. The TR's damage should remain the same only while in stealth, CA, or behind their target. Outside those boundries however I would agree that the damage needs to be at least cut in half.
GWF has some great abilities, so great in fact I believe it was Cryptic/PWE's intent to release this character "low" and build him up with demand from the community. If the GWF came off the shelf with crazy damage I dont think the game would really be that fun for them. I can just see it now, children from all over the world getting on their computers after a hard day at high school, logging in to the neverwinter forums and crying their little undies off over how OP the gwf is.
Dont take my opinion for fact, please. Im just saying this after building a teifling rogue to 60, an elf control wiz to 60, a halfling gwf to 60, a human cleric to 60 and now a half orc rogue in progress.
Anyone that has played understands the simple fact that the GWF is NOT the class that has the big damage output, the big damage is the rogue class,
A Rogue does the big damage and his defence is being constantly on the move and stealth, a GWF is there to stand his ground while doing moderate damage against many foes.
A GWF is a defensive class with that has slightly more damage output but slightly less defence than a pure defender.
This though is obvious to anyone that has played 4e rule set.
If you came to this game thinking that tanks are the big damage dealers like in some other games then you are sadly mistaken , this is D&D 4e, the rules are not the same.
Or perhaps my interpretation of 4e is different than others but the many games I have played and dm'd might just be well ........
As a grammar HAMSTER myself, I have to state off-topic, that ain't, as in aren't, is completely correct. Now your suggestion, the classes "isn't" messed up, is another issue...
Also, you are a bad bad person.
Are you serious? A CW would be a much better choice if it comes down to AOE.
The GWF is fairly good at AOE damage, but the GWFs AOE at will attacks in PVP is a complete and utter joke. It's impossible to kill a priest, its impossible to kill a rogue beacuse of the damage the rogue does. You cant dish out tons of AOE damage in PvP beacuse a good enemy rogue will know that the GWF will be the easiest target to kill.
Trust me on this. Try playing a GWF to 60 and then go PvP. Your a meatshield for 2 seconds, you dont do any damage at all.
Only if you suck.
If you know how to play and have good gear on the other hand you destroy all before you in a few swings- just like every other class does that is geared at level 60.
Also, if this game is still based on DnD, and if you cared to look into it, then GWF is still a fighter class, which is a defender class. So their option to go striker is somewhat secondary.
GWF and GF are very strong on live already, its just not many that knows how to play them. People are comparing GWFs in green armor to TRs in T2 sets.
Right now it's nowhere near that, the TR does a lot more damage. But the solution, IMHO, is not to nerf the TR's DPS count by nerfing the bleed damage they do, but by having the GWF have more base damage but with a small bonus when 1v1 and a small deduction when 1vmany.
For you rogues out there I know how it is... you don't want to see your class touched etc... but frankly PvP must be fixed and there is no doubt that even PVE is underwhelming for a GWF.
All classes must be important in the game else something is broken and that's the job behind this company actually balancing the game-play.
Rogues can do literally everything, people say that rogues don't do well with AoE... really? That's not what I've seen granted not as great as a CW, the Rogue has teleport, he has a range weapon that literally has taken 12K from me before the fight is even engaged and you can't even see them. But now hear me out...
So lets say I'm trying to defend the objective... you know because a GWF is a defender... oh yea right...
Next thing I know I lose 10K of my health from daggers at range...
I then try to locate that source, oh look jesus a rogue... then I try and land something on him which frankly if a GWF hits a rogue that rogue has been outplayed... but I get to the rogue and I'm like... "Yo Motha F#%#%" then I hit him with my Ancient Castle sword my 39% Crit chance, my 9400 Power... and oh... it doesn't hit it's deflected... over and over and oh let me use everybit of my specials and I've taken 10k... then I get destroyed and pee'd on (I'm really not into that sort of thing) as if I wasn't there.
Rogues, were supposed to be designed to kill clothies with that ease. NOT "defenders".
PvP is severely broken and I do hope that Cryptic takes fixing it seriously because frankly why would anyone play anything other than a rogue or a CW in PvP? It needs balancing.
Realism isn't required in this game... but balancing the aspects of character choice and making sure they have valuable roles to play in PvP for each class is essential else you end up with polarized populations playing the same **** thing.
But the whole point of the GWF is aoe damage. It's designed to keep mobs of squishy targets in dungeons. It's not designed to excel in one on one fights. That is literally the rogues only role.
The fact is that a rogue hitting ONE target in a group of lets say ten mobs (usually more), still does more damage overall than a GWF going to town on all those targets. So a single-target dps does more damage than an AoE-taget dps, even though it is an AoE fight.
This is just plain wrong if you ask me.
I think I didn't make my point clearly enough then. The only difference between a 1v1 and a 1vMany fight is how many opponents you hit at the same time. I wasn't talking total DPS on all opponents, just on one. And then a GWF simply doesn't do nearly the damage a TR does.
Simply put, for every one strike of the GWF the TR gets three (just an example). The problem I think is that that one strike is just very underpowered compared to the damage output of those three. I don't see how reduced cooldowns affect that lack of base damage.
so there are some useless players. but generally GWF is weakest class in game now. don't know after patch did not play yet.
You want the REAL truth of the matter? GWFs don't give up a **** thing to do damage. How is having the highest mitigations and defensive skills/feats 'giving' up anything? As usual, the idiots that play warrior classes want everything. I find it amusing how you want the TR damage nerfed, but they have the second LOWEST mitigation in the game, the second LOWEST hps in the game, and they are the only PURE striker in the game. But, you and other morons like you, won't be happy until all fighters have the highest damage, hps, and mititgation. It's the same in every game. Warriors whining about everything. And as for 'kitchen knives'.....if you haven't noticed they are roughly 2-2.5 feet long. Where the **** have you seen kitchen knives that long?
It's like you have this obsession with the warrior class and if any class has or can do anything you can't....you cry. Oh, and a GWF should 'laugh' at facing 3 rogues? Really? No, that's not a huge ego at all. Again, proves my point that all you want is to be the most powerful of all the classes....childish...
For about the billionth time....GWF is a striker/defender hybrid designed to AoE tank 'loose' mobs. You are NOT designed to do the dps of a pure striker. My god...how hard is that for people to fathom?
Why is it wrong? In what rule book does it say that an AoE class should outdamage a ST class? Show me...
Imho, a good balance would be two striker classes, one focuses on ST and one on AoE. They both do the same damage in their role. Example: If TR hits for 1000, then the GWF should hit 5 targets for 200. Then calculate the attack speed. If the TR can hit 3 times to the GWFs 1 then increase the GWF damage accordingly. So now the TR hits for 1000/3 times and the GWF hits a group of 5 for 600 each. I'm not sure how someone can mess that up....or come to the odd conclusion that AoE classes should outdamage ST classses....
And the children want a class that has everything. Go ahead and tell everyone that you don't want the highest mitigations, hps and damage for your GWF/GF. Go ahead. Lying seems to be your strong point...