Some people like endgame, and some people like getting to endgame.
Thing is, the levelling experience is actually really nice. The zones are mostly really pretty and nicely-built (apart from that horrible fire cave one towards the end, which is buggy, ugly and confusing), and the quests are varied and occasionally really entertaining. You can binge on those, and have a genuinely good time, doing the odd dungeon or skirmish along the way as a change of pace, and have a really favourable impression of the game.
However, you will end up munching all the content up sooner rather than later, even if you only play for an hour or two per day, if you're at all competent. Then you will be staring down the barrel of the endgame, thinking "what now?", like it or not. A lot of people will give it a go, gear up a bit, hit the epic dungeons and discover that it's a bunch of angsty sweary teens chain exploiting, and back away slowly. That, combined with the slightly horked mechanics (hoping the June 20th patch will address that, making actual tanking possible etc.) means that people either just turn to occasional PvP (depending on class), or just park their 60 and level something else.
There is, however, a limit to how many characters you can level until that lovely levelling content seems stale and mechanical. Sooner or later, they're faced with a choice of getting with the endgame programme, or just putting the game down. Which they choose is entirely down to the quality of the endgame. Right now, it's dreadful.
A lot is riding on that big patch. If they get it wrong, it will have a launch hump like any other new MMO, but die off just as quickly. They will no longer have the ludicrous "mer mer mer, but it's a beeeeeta" excuse (which is wearing a bit thin, even now). It won't matter what the forum whiteknighters with the huge ugly signature graphics nitpick about- semantics will no longer matter. Can the game walk the walk? I do hope so.
Thing is, the levelling experience is actually really nice. The zones are mostly really pretty and nicely-built (apart from that horrible fire cave one towards the end, which is buggy, ugly and confusing), and the quests are varied and occasionally really entertaining. You can binge on those, and have a genuinely good time, doing the odd dungeon or skirmish along the way as a change of pace, and have a really favourable impression of the game.
However, you will end up munching all the content up sooner rather than later, even if you only play for an hour or two per day, if you're at all competent. Then you will be staring down the barrel of the endgame, thinking "what now?", like it or not. A lot of people will give it a go, gear up a bit, hit the epic dungeons and discover that it's a bunch of angsty sweary teens chain exploiting, and back away slowly. That, combined with the slightly horked mechanics (hoping the June 20th patch will address that, making actual tanking possible etc.) means that people either just turn to occasional PvP (depending on class), or just park their 60 and level something else.
There is, however, a limit to how many characters you can level until that lovely levelling content seems stale and mechanical. Sooner or later, they're faced with a choice of getting with the endgame programme, or just putting the game down. Which they choose is entirely down to the quality of the endgame. Right now, it's dreadful.
A lot is riding on that big patch. If they get it wrong, it will have a launch hump like any other new MMO, but die off just as quickly. They will no longer have the ludicrous "mer mer mer, but it's a beeeeeta" excuse (which is wearing a bit thin, even now). It won't matter what the forum whiteknighters with the huge ugly signature graphics nitpick about- semantics will no longer matter. Can the game walk the walk? I do hope so.
Interesting times.
I dunno, on my first character, I out-leveled a lot of the skirmishes, and occasionally whole quest zones/dungeons. Now, on my second character, I'm focusing on all the stuff I missed, and filling in with PvP and wonderful Foundry campaigns in between. Plus, the content may be the same, but the mechanics for every class are so vastly different that you see it from a completely different angle.
Sure, it gets stale after a while, but that's true for most MMOs/games in general.
I completely disagree with this. I spend 4 out of seven days a week in the field insuring that many of you have the freedom to play this game and the piece of mind to feel safe in your homes, I spend a few hours on those days I have playing and checking the forums. I've been active since the beginning of open beta and still have only reached 24 on one character with no other alts. I thank the gains I receive everyday, because it feels like I can get somewhere even though I have very little time to devote to this.
I dunno, on my first character, I out-leveled a lot of the skirmishes, and occasionally whole quest zones/dungeons. Now, on my second character, I'm focusing on all the stuff I missed, and filling in with PvP and wonderful Foundry campaigns in between. Plus, the content may be the same, but the mechanics for every class are so vastly different that you see it from a completely different angle.
Sure, it gets stale after a while, but that's true for most MMOs/games in general.
It is, the crux is the values of "a while", though. I do outlevel skirmishes/dungeons a fair bit, though generally not quest zones.. and I am sufficiently stubborn that I do them even when they are on paper unrewarding, as levelling is pretty fast in this game, so you don't really need to optimise for speed.
I do fear that my favourite quests will prove meretricious after a few times around though. The one in Neverdeath graveyard, where you're searching for a resting place for an extremely camp Lych (Lich?) is my absolute favourite, though I suspect that the novelty could wear off after a while.
It doesn't take long to cap off that first character; I felt a bit "but.. but.." when it happened to me. I got my little DC up to about 11.5k or so GS, and then parked it as I wasn't enjoying the current exploitathon endgame. Levelling a CW has been enormous fun for precisely the reasons of mechanics that you allude to, but I worry about how many times I can do that without going nuts.
I know, I'm waiting for [new mmo] because [current mmo] just lacks [generic complaint] and [generic complaint]. [New mmo] will be so much better than [current mmo]. [Current mmo] is dead, gg guys.
I remember seeing these posts on the eq1 boards, and every mmo since then. Current generation mmos exist to take a niche hold in the market to survive, while the majority of the market bounces between mmos until they find their niche. If neverwinter isn't your 'niche', that's fine, but nobody cares. Especially the devs. The community and devs of the next mmo you try won't care either. They will be happy to get your $, but there will be no ****s given when you decide to 'frowny face' on their forums too and uninstall.
The need to rehash and restate stale opinions on a forum to validate your passing to the next mmo is astounding. Successful mmos don't exist in the scale of wow in its prime anymore, the goal is to keep a playerbase the size of lotro, swtor, or sto, and remain positive after each quarter.
If you are putting your eggs in the eso basket, good luck. But you're naive if you think it will be immune to threads like this.
Also, the need to negatively associate an mmo that 'isn't your niche' with the cliche 'its for casuals' is the best wsy to come off as a sad homebody. Just sayin.
I would hate if all Neverwinter had to offer in end game was gear farming... If they add T3 people would just be requesting T4 and so forth... The value of "cheap" T1 or T2 is simply a function of supply and demand.
Yep, all the new mmos these days cater to the casual players.
This may go all over the place so bear with me.....
The cater to them...because if they catered to so called hardcores, they would have maybe 1/4 of a base, think about it, this game is Free to play, meaning income comes from the cash shop, cash shop and hardcore are diametric philosophies, so Cryptics base is the casual player.
This isn't a good or bad thing, it just is. Mark Jacobs believes this market is oversaturated..lets see him prove his point because Cryptic/PWE is proving the hell out of their point according to the last quarters earnings call. I have been on both sides of the fence. I have been a core raider and guild leader in Everquest and WoW, and I have been a casual player hoping in for quick runs with my daughter, wife and a couple folks we met in game, one thing Iv'e learned all play styles and types of gamers are valid and those "dirty casuals" have deep pockets and a unwavering loyalty to the companies that recognize them as gamers too.
Hardcores? They are going to complain more, point fingers more, demand more and ultimately give you less money, because they want cart blanche for 14.99 a month and they are only going to pay that if they get endless end game and gated gear that only a select few "deserve."
Again not good or bad just is. But looking at it like that out can understand why developers take the path of least resistance, call it greed or whatever every single developer is held hostage by six to ten board members who want the most return on their investments.
Neverwinter has a solid foundation for longevity in the Foundry, in my opinion. What a joy to log in every day and have a new story quest waiting. This seems like a much more sound way for Cryptic to have invested in longevity compared to the typical gear grind the OP refers to. I'm only one voice in this chorus, but the Foundry is why I'll be sticking with Neverwinter.
Comments
Thing is, the levelling experience is actually really nice. The zones are mostly really pretty and nicely-built (apart from that horrible fire cave one towards the end, which is buggy, ugly and confusing), and the quests are varied and occasionally really entertaining. You can binge on those, and have a genuinely good time, doing the odd dungeon or skirmish along the way as a change of pace, and have a really favourable impression of the game.
However, you will end up munching all the content up sooner rather than later, even if you only play for an hour or two per day, if you're at all competent. Then you will be staring down the barrel of the endgame, thinking "what now?", like it or not. A lot of people will give it a go, gear up a bit, hit the epic dungeons and discover that it's a bunch of angsty sweary teens chain exploiting, and back away slowly. That, combined with the slightly horked mechanics (hoping the June 20th patch will address that, making actual tanking possible etc.) means that people either just turn to occasional PvP (depending on class), or just park their 60 and level something else.
There is, however, a limit to how many characters you can level until that lovely levelling content seems stale and mechanical. Sooner or later, they're faced with a choice of getting with the endgame programme, or just putting the game down. Which they choose is entirely down to the quality of the endgame. Right now, it's dreadful.
A lot is riding on that big patch. If they get it wrong, it will have a launch hump like any other new MMO, but die off just as quickly. They will no longer have the ludicrous "mer mer mer, but it's a beeeeeta" excuse (which is wearing a bit thin, even now). It won't matter what the forum whiteknighters with the huge ugly signature graphics nitpick about- semantics will no longer matter. Can the game walk the walk? I do hope so.
Interesting times.
You missed - And some people like both.
I dunno, on my first character, I out-leveled a lot of the skirmishes, and occasionally whole quest zones/dungeons. Now, on my second character, I'm focusing on all the stuff I missed, and filling in with PvP and wonderful Foundry campaigns in between. Plus, the content may be the same, but the mechanics for every class are so vastly different that you see it from a completely different angle.
Sure, it gets stale after a while, but that's true for most MMOs/games in general.
nice copypasta
While gold is semi-easy to come by, I am sitting on around 31 at level 58. Barely spent any on pots, spent 5 on the mount. Thats it.
It is, the crux is the values of "a while", though. I do outlevel skirmishes/dungeons a fair bit, though generally not quest zones.. and I am sufficiently stubborn that I do them even when they are on paper unrewarding, as levelling is pretty fast in this game, so you don't really need to optimise for speed.
I do fear that my favourite quests will prove meretricious after a few times around though. The one in Neverdeath graveyard, where you're searching for a resting place for an extremely camp Lych (Lich?) is my absolute favourite, though I suspect that the novelty could wear off after a while.
It doesn't take long to cap off that first character; I felt a bit "but.. but.." when it happened to me. I got my little DC up to about 11.5k or so GS, and then parked it as I wasn't enjoying the current exploitathon endgame. Levelling a CW has been enormous fun for precisely the reasons of mechanics that you allude to, but I worry about how many times I can do that without going nuts.
I remember seeing these posts on the eq1 boards, and every mmo since then. Current generation mmos exist to take a niche hold in the market to survive, while the majority of the market bounces between mmos until they find their niche. If neverwinter isn't your 'niche', that's fine, but nobody cares. Especially the devs. The community and devs of the next mmo you try won't care either. They will be happy to get your $, but there will be no ****s given when you decide to 'frowny face' on their forums too and uninstall.
The need to rehash and restate stale opinions on a forum to validate your passing to the next mmo is astounding. Successful mmos don't exist in the scale of wow in its prime anymore, the goal is to keep a playerbase the size of lotro, swtor, or sto, and remain positive after each quarter.
If you are putting your eggs in the eso basket, good luck. But you're naive if you think it will be immune to threads like this.
Also, the need to negatively associate an mmo that 'isn't your niche' with the cliche 'its for casuals' is the best wsy to come off as a sad homebody. Just sayin.
This may go all over the place so bear with me.....
The cater to them...because if they catered to so called hardcores, they would have maybe 1/4 of a base, think about it, this game is Free to play, meaning income comes from the cash shop, cash shop and hardcore are diametric philosophies, so Cryptics base is the casual player.
This isn't a good or bad thing, it just is. Mark Jacobs believes this market is oversaturated..lets see him prove his point because Cryptic/PWE is proving the hell out of their point according to the last quarters earnings call. I have been on both sides of the fence. I have been a core raider and guild leader in Everquest and WoW, and I have been a casual player hoping in for quick runs with my daughter, wife and a couple folks we met in game, one thing Iv'e learned all play styles and types of gamers are valid and those "dirty casuals" have deep pockets and a unwavering loyalty to the companies that recognize them as gamers too.
Hardcores? They are going to complain more, point fingers more, demand more and ultimately give you less money, because they want cart blanche for 14.99 a month and they are only going to pay that if they get endless end game and gated gear that only a select few "deserve."
Again not good or bad just is. But looking at it like that out can understand why developers take the path of least resistance, call it greed or whatever every single developer is held hostage by six to ten board members who want the most return on their investments.