Yes, but in D&D Rogues specialize in taking down squishes from stealth, AKA not being able to face head on one-on-one a warrior as they can do now.
The issue is that they currently simply have too much survivability compared to their DPS.
Completely and totally wrong. In fact, a rogue can have the highest AC in the game for PnP. Plate has an armor cap, a rogue who chooses to wear cloth does not. I could stand toe-to-toe all day with any fighter build. The whole 'warriors are superior to everyone in melee' theory needs to be squashed. Do you not think that rogues are also trained in combat? Do you think they just 'wing it'? They are melee, you are melee. Imho, if the game is balanced well, the two classes should be almost at a stand still one on one. But thinking they should win simply because they have heavy armor and a big sword is a seriously flawed argument.
+1000. To all the naysayers and those voting against the thread, my CWs my main. I'm in glad gear, and yes I'm not capped out. Here's the problem as I see it.
TR: Who gave these guys ranged attacks anyhow (cloud of steel)? Who really thought that was a bright idea? TRs hit at range for typically what my MMs are hitting for (if not more with greater tene). So we have a rogue/assassin/sorcerer/fighter all in one shot MINUS the AC (whoopty doo!).
Additionally...stack much? I mean really, with the speed of attack you couldn't take the frontal load off a bit? This is called basic DPS physics. Faster attack means taking the front load of total burst damage down.
Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'.
CW: DoTs are just far too easy to stack up. Three encounter powers for full DoT capabilities and all of them are just easy to pop and run. Teleport much? Sure, just stack a bit more in sta/str with a half-orc build and get 5 ports in about 7 seconds. DPS suffers a tiny bit, but mobility keeps you alive. Oh and if you can't crush something to death or hold it still, just push it miles from you, rinse and repeat. I get it...control is the key word.
So agreed. This game is incredibly out of whack with balance. It turns me off to even want to try to roll a fighter class.
Um, because they have ranged attacks in D&D? Seriously, they are able to use ranged attacks just like a Ranger or Mage. How hard is that for you to grasp? If you want to argue the whole 'one role' thing..sure. Just take away the GF's ability to do damage so he can only tank, do not buff the GWF damage because he is an AoE tank, improve the DCs healing but remove all damage abilities....see how stupid that sounds? In almost every MMO since the dawn of time the rogue has had ranged options. So how the hell does this become an issue here?
It's not about perfect balance and if people "actually" read entire posts they would understand that. If a game has classes that are no longer viable, than it is something that needs to be addressed. If someone can't understand that.. We'll what's the point trying to explain to people like that. If you don't think 2 + 2 = 4 there is nothing I can do about it.
The PvP is far more balanced than the PvE is, so your argument isn't going to hold up. I at least can see classes being usefull in PvP when the players are good at their class.
PvE on the other hand... GWF and GF are not viable classes. Say what you want, but spend some time reading zone chat on any server no one is asking for GWF or GF for their groups unless it's a easymode dungeon.
I've been told about 100 times when I ask to join a "LF1M DPS" that they need a dps when I'm on my GWF. That my friend is a broken game.
No it's not. A broken community of instant gratification. self-absorbed brats? Absolutely. But the GWF is not a dps class. It's a melee/tank hybrid designed to kill trash mobs and keep them off the DC. It's the classes job. NOT top dps.
Well I do believe you got your wish when it comes to PvE.
Rogue's major at will -> duelist furry, has had it's crit severity bonus decrease from 75% to 15%, bleed proc from ticking once every sec to once every 2 sec, and on top of all that, if you are good enough to keep up the bleed all the time, it will stop ticking damage after 7 secs.
Rogues will probably no longer be #1 dps after the patch. Ranged DPS or Tanky DPS will probably be the the best DPS. All's right with the world.
First off, the decrease on DF severity was from +25% to +15%.
Second, the bleed does tons of damage. Cutting it in half is fine with me considering my bleeds alone could outdamage any class.
Third, the patch notes state that power now adds MORE damage to encounter/dailies. That's a buff. Not a nerf.
TR will still be the #1 dps. All's right in the world.
I call BS on this one. I have a 42 alt and never need it in combat. Mobs practically teleport back to you with the way this AI works. Any ranged fights are just as easily handled. You're justifying a bad design that makes you a caster essentially. I've never seen a rogue spam this as much as they do in PvP. So...gg, try again with a fruitless argument.
Actually, I'm not justifying anything yet. At this point in the conversation I'm just explaining the logic behind the decision to give rogues a ranged at-will ability. You don't have to agree with it. Also, it's really not something worth getting this worked up about. Let's continue, shall we? First of all, you need to realize that the developers didn't come up with the ability themselves. It exists in the Fourth Edition of DnD of which this game is based on. While primarily a melee class in the Pen and Paper RPG, rogues are also characterized by their specialized skills and encounter abilities. The image of a knavish rogue with a love for throwing daggers is an old fantasy trope that is instantly recognizable, and it's not wonder they would add it to the class. It's fits right along with smoke-bombs and backstabs.
Now, let's move on to the "justification" as you so lovingly put it. As long as we're throwing out anecdotal evidence to support our arguments, I'll just say that I've got two level sixty rogues and I find Cloud of Steel to be invaluable for solo play. I'm not sure what I would have done in certain situations without it. Naturally you would not see a rogue using it in group combat, because Duelist's Fury is pretty much the only skill that's necessary if there's another player tanking for you. So what you actually mean to say is that, "I've never seen my rogue spam [Clouds of Steel in PvE] as much as they do in PvP", which just suggests that you didn't use your rogue to it's maximum potential. Which is fine, of course.
Melee class with dodge needs to be a melee class with dodge. Justification again.
I don't understand your point here at all. What does dodge have to do with Cloud of Steel? One is a means of putting distance between your enemy, and one is an attack. Actually, they are related in the sense that the dodge exists to put us at a range in which Cloud of Steel can be useful. But I'm not sure why you feel as though one should or can replace the other.
Now, let's look at PvP shall we? The PvP in this game is centered around capturing nodes, and as you are undoubtedly aware, this mechanic requires you to stand still at a point. When you are a rogue and are faced with the prospect of one (or more) control wizards coming towards a node you are currently capturing, there's only so much you can do. Most of our abilities are designed for mobility, just as the dodge and teleport skills. These are very effective at fighting off control wizards, but useless in accomplishing the actual task of PvP. Cloud of Steel allows us to continue capturing a node while fighting off Clerics/Control Wizards. Without it, we would be forced to stop capturing nodes every time a wizard waltzes by. This combined with our lack of defense, would make for utterly one-sided encounters. That would be bad game design.
So now you want major AoE properties and CC? Asking for more than you already have caster/melee class? Greedy.
No, I never suggested I wanted anything. I simply explained that the AoE abilities of the rogue are practically useless and that the CC is only good for short encounters. And I'm fine with that. I'm not sure how to stop you from reading more into my words than what I actually write down, I'm speaking very simply.
Also, one ranged attack with limited charges does not make us a "caster". The true ranged DPS will be the Ranger, who I am looking very forward to. Are you? It's going to be fun!
You mean the same kind of trouble almost every GF faces except they have a blue bar that lets them mitigate that kind of fight? Oh but wait...you can pretty much wipe most mobs in about 2-4 hits, so that shouldn't be a problem. Again, justification.
Guardian Fighters, and to a much larger extent Great Weapon Fighters, are mostly broken, and can't really be used to justify how a class should perform in this game. As tanks they aren't nearly as effective as they should be. I'm sure the two fighter classes have tons of trouble soloing, but this has nothing to do with the rogues having a ranged ability, and everything to do with them needed a serious re-working from the developers.
I'm not even going to pick apart the rest of this poorly justified post of yours but basically you're saying you shouldn't be relegated to being just a melee class and just exemplified my previous statement.
Aw, that's too bad. It was fun talking to you anyhow!
"Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'."
That's a possibility. Another possibility is that we simply don't agree with your assessment. It's highly possible that the reason we aren't "admitting" to being overpowered, is because we don't believe we are. We know this class in-and-out, limitations and strengths. We enjoy the class and find we fun. We consider ourselves perfectly suited for our intended role in the game, and yes, we are **** strong at it. The fact that single-target DPS naturally lends itself to PvP, really doesn't change the fact that everyone has their roles and some are more useful that others in certain situations.
Note, I put 'the best' in single quotations above because I knew I'd have to quote it again and thus had to just copy/paste it. Because of course...some TR would come on here and try to justify their overpowered class. I guess you've never played any other class because the "sweet taste of OP" is lingering in your mouth and the thought of playing anything else is abominable at this point.
I've played a CW and GWF. Fairly briefly. With the cost of buying new slots, I've mostly just focused on my two rogues. It's a very fun class to solo with for sure, and there's considerable difference between playing a saboteur-style rogue and an executioner-style rogue in the later levels!
At least as a CW main I can admit that we have some incredibly OP abilities.
What you're not doing is saying that your CW main shouldn't have certain abilities. You're not saying that Cloud of Steel needs a nerf. You're suggesting that it shouldn't exist at all. That's quite a bit away from admitting that you have some really good abilities.
Really? You have inside information that you're not telling us! Oh wait...you mean a ranged class that does RANGED damage. Surprise! Or...oh wait...they might dual wield? *gasp* Could it be just another rogue class? Or...wait do they get a wolf pet! Oh noes! Companions in PvP?!
People already complain about the damage a Control Wizard can put, it's a no-brainer that people will freak out once an actual ranged DPS is released. It's not inside information, it's basic common sense. It's going to be pandemonium, and I can't wait!
Trust me...nothing would be worse than a stealth class It's not inside infthat can silence out powers, practically two shot you and then if you DO dodge, you're just picked off with incredibly powerful ranged attack that shouldn't exist on a melee class.
All the classes have stun abilities, and ours are not close to being the strongest. If you have trouble fighting rogues I can sympathize, but I have similar issues against control wizards. One of the primary reasons I don't consider rogues overpowered is because I've been in countless situation where I've missed my Dazing Strike or simply got unlucky enough to waste an encounter ability during one of the wizards three dodges. If you make a mistake, your dead. High risk, high reward. Makes for a very fun class, in my opinion.
Elder Scrolls is on the horizon and at the very least you can at least skill build there and there's no excuse to being confined to a class system...
At least I got my money back on this.
Instead of complaining about how bad this game is, why not offer suggestions on how to fix it? How would you personally "fix" the rogue class you feel is so overpowered? It was nice talking to you, see you on the battlefield!
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
If someone calls CW an OP class, I will personally find him in game and wipe the floor with him. No I am not using the OP double enfeeble and I kick everyone with my skills and knowladge. There is nothing wrong with the CWs teleport. Ok nerf it, but remove the GWF sprint, the rogues invisibility and the GFs block. CWs have no skills that make them immune to CC of any kid, they are squishy as fk with low HP and def. The only way for CWs to survive is by teleporting around. A full stamina allows CWs to teleport 3 TIMES not 4. With a combination of feats, you can get bonus stamina and movement speed when teleporting. I dont think this is more OP than a rogue being in stelth for 30-40 seconds or a GWF to run the entire map for a couple of seconds or a GF to block as much dmg as his HP back. I think CWs are the most difficult to play for so many reasons.
About rogues? Easy targets! The game sound reveals them very hard.
Ive seen alot of great GWF that beat me to hell and beyond but I dont whine why they have so much HP or def or can resist all my CCs am I? If you are a bad gwf, there is no hope for you sir.
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danxbxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
, but he is high enough level to know that teleport doesn't take nearly enough stamina.
This is where I stopped reading. It takes 1/3 as it should. CW get three teleports. Once a CW can wear something besides cloth, then you can argue they should only get two like a DC and TR.
I chose my main class because I liked playing it, even with all the disadvantages it brings. Perhaps you should too. If that doesn't appease you, I won't be the first to lead you and your elitist attitude towards the door.
Love,
That one guy
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Look at the CW. It has nothing to do with dps, but their utilities in PvP is off the wall too good. They get 4 encounters they can dodge the most in one stamina bar, and they have encounters that do massive damage if not nearly 60-80% of a geared players hp.
Also their utilities in PvP are so great people would rather have 2 of them than another class. So you have rogue's overwhelming better dps, CW's overwhelming usefulness. When you have sets up like that it's going to cause a lot of rejection to the other classes.
I'm just saying as a CW or TR you have major advantages. When I play on my CW it's hardly a challenge destroying people in PvP. On my gwf I have to fight for everything and even then I'm getting dropped in 1 hit from shocking execution even though I'm at 60-80% hp.
It's too easy mode is all I'm saying and if you don't know that.. Level a CW to 60 than a GWF and you'll understand.
iwrestlebearzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2013
You're not good because you play a CW/TR/DC, either. Dumb logic is dumb. There are exceptional players and poor players in every & all classes, and plenty of just idiots in general.
Rogue DPS is already getting fairly severly nerfed (yes, more than Shocking Execution), so you should probably pipe the **** down. It doesn't take a brain to realize that TR's by nature should deal more single target damage than GF's & GWF's.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Rogue DPS is already getting fairly severly nerfed
60 Spymaster TR here. Nope, still redonculous DPS. We ran test server with my group. So bleed ticks for 30-40k every 2 seconds instead of one, so what?, I still crit for 3-8k every hit of Duelist Flurry.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Look at the CW. It has nothing to do with dps, but their utilities in PvP is off the wall too good. They get 4 encounters they can dodge the most in one stamina bar, and they have encounters that do massive damage if not nearly 60-80% of a geared players hp.
Also their utilities in PvP are so great people would rather have 2 of them than another class. So you have rogue's overwhelming better dps, CW's overwhelming usefulness. When you have sets up like that it's going to cause a lot of rejection to the other classes.
Its called a CONTROL wizard dont you think? Without a control power, what more do we have to do? Sit around a cry while people drown in our tears cause we have nothing else to throw at them? Ok your logic is bad.
Its called a CONTROL wizard dont you think? Without a control power, what more do we have to do? Sit around a cry while people drown in our tears cause we have nothing else to throw at them? Ok your logic is bad.
U can slot 6 tenebr and one shot ppl like all proper CW 8)
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Whining players whine much. You roll a tank based two handed weapon class and complain when u cant own single targets.
CW have to stop moving to cast, they wear cloth. Every player wants their class to be the op class regardless of their role in every situation.
GF you can not tell me you rolled this class expecting to be a striker class. GWF you cant tell me you wanted to play the tank aoe class to be a single target striker ? ? ? And own in PVP 1 on 1. Where in all the information about the classes did you expect anything to be different.
The GWF needed their aoe fixed and the GF needed an aggro fix. Give the GWF an effective punt type effect and an effective AOE daze effect and then people would accept them in groups.
All this dumb nerf for pvp is just dumb. It fails in all mmos becuase every class expects to own all content equally and it never ever happens. You just end up having to jump from class to class and listen carefully.
The only one who wins is PW becuase u end up respeccing and rerolling over and over again.
I wouldn't even give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> how much damage CWs and TRs did if I felt like I could actually fight them. This isn't just about their innate CC mechanics, but also about how obnoxiously slow GWF animations are for every single thing. It's like I'm fighting through molasses, and it's incredibly frustrating that other classes are way zippier than GWFs, especially when GWFs have no ranged attack OR a way to shrug off damage to get to melee.
Whining players whine much. You roll a tank based two handed weapon class and complain when u cant own single targets.
CW have to stop moving to cast, they wear cloth. Every player wants their class to be the op class regardless of their role in every situation.
GF you can not tell me you rolled this class expecting to be a striker class. GWF you cant tell me you wanted to play the tank aoe class to be a single target striker ? ? ? And own in PVP 1 on 1. Where in all the information about the classes did you expect anything to be different.
The GWF needed their aoe fixed and the GF needed an aggro fix. Give the GWF an effective punt type effect and an effective AOE daze effect and then people would accept them in groups.
All this dumb nerf for pvp is just dumb. It fails in all mmos becuase every class expects to own all content equally and it never ever happens. You just end up having to jump from class to class and listen carefully.
The only one who wins is PW becuase u end up respeccing and rerolling over and over again.
Or you could go to the forums and whine much.
I think ppl expected more of this "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way." and "Soloing with the Great Weapon Fighter(GWF) is a joy. It is the premier soloing class in Neverwinter. It combines the Damage dealing capability of the Trickster Rogue with the defenses of the Guardian Fighter. Allowing you to solo content that no other class can. " , I personaly lold at this so hard.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seriously, people actually don't believe these classes are over powered to the extreme. I was on my gwf and some rogue said "jealous of my dps?" in a dungeon.. I about died from laughing so hard at him because he was serious. For the record I have a Rogue and Wizard, though the wizard isn't quite level cap, but he is high enough level to know that teleport doesn't take nearly enough stamina.
Honestly if they don't bring a huge nerf to TR's and CW's I'm done with the game, but assuming they're not going to go on with a 3 class game I'd like to just let all my fellow CW's and TR's know.. You're not good you're playing on easy mode.
We'll find out who's actually good at the game once the classes are even remotely balanced.
And don't even try to argue it, because I know you want to think you're good, but we both know you just want a OP class to cover up how bad you are.
Now a GWF, DC or GF that kicks the most *&^ in PvP, now that would be a good player(End-Game). The rest is too hard to compare based on the outrageous gap's between usefulness in classes.
** Example My GWF 10k most powerful skill with a respectable build does between 10-13k crit damage top with a extremely long winded animation that's easy to dodge.
CW's who's only between 7-8k does more like 15-28k damage. He also can teleport nearly 4 times before running out of stamina, which is 4 immediate dodges essentially I can dodge ever encounter someone throws at me and still have a dodge left.
TR's I don't really have an issue with outside of their insane dps in dungeons, which honestly doesn't matter because it counts with trash and really only the boss battles matters, but it gets annoying when they think they're just that good..
To the OP i say i may well be better and here are the facts.
I played as a beta tester and read the forums and listened to feedback. I knew there were issues with GF aggro so strike off playing that class. I knew GWF were terrible. I didnt roll them when it launched.
I knew that the TR were the popular dps striker but i dont like rogues and they always get nerfed hard. That left me with the CW so i rolled that. Now i go into dungeons with two CW one TR and two DC.
You did roll one of the problem plagued classes.
Why?
Now i get it there are lots of people who think damage meters are all there is and it makes gaming annoying. But if you roll a tank class then you have to deal with the fact you arent going to top the dps.
Now i know CW are getting nerfed as we are too strong in PVP. Thats fine. Having the GWF now being the OP class on the test servers has got me beat. It defies the logic of the class.
The devs must be crapping themselves over whats going to happen when the ranged striker class comes and all the TR YELL NERF lol
I think ppl expected more of this "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way." and "Soloing with the Great Weapon Fighter(GWF) is a joy. It is the premier soloing class in Neverwinter. It combines the Damage dealing capability of the Trickster Rogue with the defenses of the Guardian Fighter. Allowing you to solo content that no other class can. " , I personaly lold at this so hard.
Now i know CW are getting nerfed as we are too strong in PVP. Thats fine. Having the GWF now being the OP class on the test servers has got me beat. It defies the logic of the class.
Logic is gwf is a 7 feet tall 300 pounds weight ork wielding a weapon that can split tr or cw in two from head to *** in one swing... yet he blows hard cause it's a game and devs do what they think is right.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Logic is gwf is a 7 feet tall 300 pounds weight ork wielding a weapon that can split tr or cw in two from head to *** in one swing... yet he blows hard cause it's a game and devs do what they think is right.
Is that logical though? Realistic, a wizard would just turn you into a chicken or something. And a rogue would be so much more quicker and nimble than the "ork", that he'd never be hit.
But like you said, it's a game.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I think ppl expected more of this "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way." and "Soloing with the Great Weapon Fighter(GWF) is a joy. It is the premier soloing class in Neverwinter. It combines the Damage dealing capability of the Trickster Rogue with the defenses of the Guardian Fighter. Allowing you to solo content that no other class can. " , I personaly lold at this so hard.
First description sounds like an off-tank. That second quote comes from a game guide written by IGN. Are you seriously going to listen to them?
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
That's some pretty terribad logic. Every MMOer who has been around for any period of time during the genre's existence understands that due to all the moaners in any game with any PVP centricity whatsoever, the balance they all crave is a flimsy state of changing scope at best.
Its always hilarious when the people complaining the loudest about one class needing to be nerfed finally give in and roll one, and then they nerf it in the balance patch, so now they are back on the boards complaining about the fact it got nerfed, just when they were starting to enjoy it, only to find out the character they deleted was of the class that is now OP in PVP due to THEIR OWN COMPLAINING.
Don't like the fact that something is OP? Wait a month. It will be nerfed into oblivion to satisfy those who aren't happy unless everything but the class they chose to play is nerfed, in order to cover up the lack of quality of their own play. Cant win in the game? come to the forums and beat them by having them nerfed.
Comments
Completely and totally wrong. In fact, a rogue can have the highest AC in the game for PnP. Plate has an armor cap, a rogue who chooses to wear cloth does not. I could stand toe-to-toe all day with any fighter build. The whole 'warriors are superior to everyone in melee' theory needs to be squashed. Do you not think that rogues are also trained in combat? Do you think they just 'wing it'? They are melee, you are melee. Imho, if the game is balanced well, the two classes should be almost at a stand still one on one. But thinking they should win simply because they have heavy armor and a big sword is a seriously flawed argument.
Um, because they have ranged attacks in D&D? Seriously, they are able to use ranged attacks just like a Ranger or Mage. How hard is that for you to grasp? If you want to argue the whole 'one role' thing..sure. Just take away the GF's ability to do damage so he can only tank, do not buff the GWF damage because he is an AoE tank, improve the DCs healing but remove all damage abilities....see how stupid that sounds? In almost every MMO since the dawn of time the rogue has had ranged options. So how the hell does this become an issue here?
No it's not. A broken community of instant gratification. self-absorbed brats? Absolutely. But the GWF is not a dps class. It's a melee/tank hybrid designed to kill trash mobs and keep them off the DC. It's the classes job. NOT top dps.
First off, the decrease on DF severity was from +25% to +15%.
Second, the bleed does tons of damage. Cutting it in half is fine with me considering my bleeds alone could outdamage any class.
Third, the patch notes state that power now adds MORE damage to encounter/dailies. That's a buff. Not a nerf.
TR will still be the #1 dps. All's right in the world.
Actually, I'm not justifying anything yet. At this point in the conversation I'm just explaining the logic behind the decision to give rogues a ranged at-will ability. You don't have to agree with it. Also, it's really not something worth getting this worked up about. Let's continue, shall we? First of all, you need to realize that the developers didn't come up with the ability themselves. It exists in the Fourth Edition of DnD of which this game is based on. While primarily a melee class in the Pen and Paper RPG, rogues are also characterized by their specialized skills and encounter abilities. The image of a knavish rogue with a love for throwing daggers is an old fantasy trope that is instantly recognizable, and it's not wonder they would add it to the class. It's fits right along with smoke-bombs and backstabs.
Now, let's move on to the "justification" as you so lovingly put it. As long as we're throwing out anecdotal evidence to support our arguments, I'll just say that I've got two level sixty rogues and I find Cloud of Steel to be invaluable for solo play. I'm not sure what I would have done in certain situations without it. Naturally you would not see a rogue using it in group combat, because Duelist's Fury is pretty much the only skill that's necessary if there's another player tanking for you. So what you actually mean to say is that, "I've never seen my rogue spam [Clouds of Steel in PvE] as much as they do in PvP", which just suggests that you didn't use your rogue to it's maximum potential. Which is fine, of course.
I don't understand your point here at all. What does dodge have to do with Cloud of Steel? One is a means of putting distance between your enemy, and one is an attack. Actually, they are related in the sense that the dodge exists to put us at a range in which Cloud of Steel can be useful. But I'm not sure why you feel as though one should or can replace the other.
Now, let's look at PvP shall we? The PvP in this game is centered around capturing nodes, and as you are undoubtedly aware, this mechanic requires you to stand still at a point. When you are a rogue and are faced with the prospect of one (or more) control wizards coming towards a node you are currently capturing, there's only so much you can do. Most of our abilities are designed for mobility, just as the dodge and teleport skills. These are very effective at fighting off control wizards, but useless in accomplishing the actual task of PvP. Cloud of Steel allows us to continue capturing a node while fighting off Clerics/Control Wizards. Without it, we would be forced to stop capturing nodes every time a wizard waltzes by. This combined with our lack of defense, would make for utterly one-sided encounters. That would be bad game design.
No, I never suggested I wanted anything. I simply explained that the AoE abilities of the rogue are practically useless and that the CC is only good for short encounters. And I'm fine with that. I'm not sure how to stop you from reading more into my words than what I actually write down, I'm speaking very simply.
Also, one ranged attack with limited charges does not make us a "caster". The true ranged DPS will be the Ranger, who I am looking very forward to. Are you? It's going to be fun!
Guardian Fighters, and to a much larger extent Great Weapon Fighters, are mostly broken, and can't really be used to justify how a class should perform in this game. As tanks they aren't nearly as effective as they should be. I'm sure the two fighter classes have tons of trouble soloing, but this has nothing to do with the rogues having a ranged ability, and everything to do with them needed a serious re-working from the developers.
Aw, that's too bad. It was fun talking to you anyhow!
That's a possibility. Another possibility is that we simply don't agree with your assessment. It's highly possible that the reason we aren't "admitting" to being overpowered, is because we don't believe we are. We know this class in-and-out, limitations and strengths. We enjoy the class and find we fun. We consider ourselves perfectly suited for our intended role in the game, and yes, we are **** strong at it. The fact that single-target DPS naturally lends itself to PvP, really doesn't change the fact that everyone has their roles and some are more useful that others in certain situations.
I've played a CW and GWF. Fairly briefly. With the cost of buying new slots, I've mostly just focused on my two rogues. It's a very fun class to solo with for sure, and there's considerable difference between playing a saboteur-style rogue and an executioner-style rogue in the later levels!
What you're not doing is saying that your CW main shouldn't have certain abilities. You're not saying that Cloud of Steel needs a nerf. You're suggesting that it shouldn't exist at all. That's quite a bit away from admitting that you have some really good abilities.
People already complain about the damage a Control Wizard can put, it's a no-brainer that people will freak out once an actual ranged DPS is released. It's not inside information, it's basic common sense. It's going to be pandemonium, and I can't wait!
All the classes have stun abilities, and ours are not close to being the strongest. If you have trouble fighting rogues I can sympathize, but I have similar issues against control wizards. One of the primary reasons I don't consider rogues overpowered is because I've been in countless situation where I've missed my Dazing Strike or simply got unlucky enough to waste an encounter ability during one of the wizards three dodges. If you make a mistake, your dead. High risk, high reward. Makes for a very fun class, in my opinion.
Instead of complaining about how bad this game is, why not offer suggestions on how to fix it? How would you personally "fix" the rogue class you feel is so overpowered? It was nice talking to you, see you on the battlefield!
It's a buff if you have tons of power, I suppose. I currently have three stats higher than it. Going to have to change that, I suppose. >.<
About rogues? Easy targets! The game sound reveals them very hard.
Ive seen alot of great GWF that beat me to hell and beyond but I dont whine why they have so much HP or def or can resist all my CCs am I? If you are a bad gwf, there is no hope for you sir.
This is where I stopped reading. It takes 1/3 as it should. CW get three teleports. Once a CW can wear something besides cloth, then you can argue they should only get two like a DC and TR.
I chose my main class because I liked playing it, even with all the disadvantages it brings. Perhaps you should too. If that doesn't appease you, I won't be the first to lead you and your elitist attitude towards the door.
Love,
That one guy
derp....
derp derp
My main is CW and they are OP and they are not difficult to play. derp
Poor guy you cannot oneshot every class now, now you actually have to press Q and then R for him to die jesus talk about having a hardtime!
Also their utilities in PvP are so great people would rather have 2 of them than another class. So you have rogue's overwhelming better dps, CW's overwhelming usefulness. When you have sets up like that it's going to cause a lot of rejection to the other classes.
I'm just saying as a CW or TR you have major advantages. When I play on my CW it's hardly a challenge destroying people in PvP. On my gwf I have to fight for everything and even then I'm getting dropped in 1 hit from shocking execution even though I'm at 60-80% hp.
It's too easy mode is all I'm saying and if you don't know that.. Level a CW to 60 than a GWF and you'll understand.
Rogue DPS is already getting fairly severly nerfed (yes, more than Shocking Execution), so you should probably pipe the **** down. It doesn't take a brain to realize that TR's by nature should deal more single target damage than GF's & GWF's.
I know man! Don't they have like 35k+ hp!
60 Spymaster TR here. Nope, still redonculous DPS. We ran test server with my group. So bleed ticks for 30-40k every 2 seconds instead of one, so what?, I still crit for 3-8k every hit of Duelist Flurry.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
U can slot 6 tenebr and one shot ppl like all proper CW 8)
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
CW have to stop moving to cast, they wear cloth. Every player wants their class to be the op class regardless of their role in every situation.
GF you can not tell me you rolled this class expecting to be a striker class. GWF you cant tell me you wanted to play the tank aoe class to be a single target striker ? ? ? And own in PVP 1 on 1. Where in all the information about the classes did you expect anything to be different.
The GWF needed their aoe fixed and the GF needed an aggro fix. Give the GWF an effective punt type effect and an effective AOE daze effect and then people would accept them in groups.
All this dumb nerf for pvp is just dumb. It fails in all mmos becuase every class expects to own all content equally and it never ever happens. You just end up having to jump from class to class and listen carefully.
The only one who wins is PW becuase u end up respeccing and rerolling over and over again.
Or you could go to the forums and whine much.
I think ppl expected more of this "The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way." and "Soloing with the Great Weapon Fighter(GWF) is a joy. It is the premier soloing class in Neverwinter. It combines the Damage dealing capability of the Trickster Rogue with the defenses of the Guardian Fighter. Allowing you to solo content that no other class can. " , I personaly lold at this so hard.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
To the OP i say i may well be better and here are the facts.
I played as a beta tester and read the forums and listened to feedback. I knew there were issues with GF aggro so strike off playing that class. I knew GWF were terrible. I didnt roll them when it launched.
I knew that the TR were the popular dps striker but i dont like rogues and they always get nerfed hard. That left me with the CW so i rolled that. Now i go into dungeons with two CW one TR and two DC.
You did roll one of the problem plagued classes.
Why?
Now i get it there are lots of people who think damage meters are all there is and it makes gaming annoying. But if you roll a tank class then you have to deal with the fact you arent going to top the dps.
Now i know CW are getting nerfed as we are too strong in PVP. Thats fine. Having the GWF now being the OP class on the test servers has got me beat. It defies the logic of the class.
The devs must be crapping themselves over whats going to happen when the ranged striker class comes and all the TR YELL NERF lol
Lol so true.
Logic is gwf is a 7 feet tall 300 pounds weight ork wielding a weapon that can split tr or cw in two from head to *** in one swing... yet he blows hard cause it's a game and devs do what they think is right.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Is that logical though? Realistic, a wizard would just turn you into a chicken or something. And a rogue would be so much more quicker and nimble than the "ork", that he'd never be hit.
But like you said, it's a game.
First description sounds like an off-tank. That second quote comes from a game guide written by IGN. Are you seriously going to listen to them?
+1.......................