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You're not good because you play a CW or TR.
killz2many
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 146 Bounty Hunter
Seriously, people actually don't believe these classes are over powered to the extreme. I was on my gwf and some rogue said "jealous of my dps?" in a dungeon.. I about died from laughing so hard at him because he was serious. For the record I have a Rogue and Wizard, though the wizard isn't quite level cap, but he is high enough level to know that teleport doesn't take nearly enough stamina.
Honestly if they don't bring a huge nerf to TR's and CW's I'm done with the game, but assuming they're not going to go on with a 3 class game I'd like to just let all my fellow CW's and TR's know.. You're not good you're playing on easy mode.
We'll find out who's actually good at the game once the classes are even remotely balanced.
And don't even try to argue it, because I know you want to think you're good, but we both know you just want a OP class to cover up how bad you are.
Now a GWF, DC or GF that kicks the most *&^ in PvP, now that would be a good player(End-Game). The rest is too hard to compare based on the outrageous gap's between usefulness in classes.
** Example My GWF 10k most powerful skill with a respectable build does between 10-13k crit damage top with a extremely long winded animation that's easy to dodge.
CW's who's only between 7-8k does more like 15-28k damage. He also can teleport nearly 4 times before running out of stamina, which is 4 immediate dodges essentially I can dodge ever encounter someone throws at me and still have a dodge left.
TR's I don't really have an issue with outside of their insane dps in dungeons, which honestly doesn't matter because it counts with trash and really only the boss battles matters, but it gets annoying when they think they're just that good..
Honestly if they don't bring a huge nerf to TR's and CW's I'm done with the game, but assuming they're not going to go on with a 3 class game I'd like to just let all my fellow CW's and TR's know.. You're not good you're playing on easy mode.
We'll find out who's actually good at the game once the classes are even remotely balanced.
And don't even try to argue it, because I know you want to think you're good, but we both know you just want a OP class to cover up how bad you are.
Now a GWF, DC or GF that kicks the most *&^ in PvP, now that would be a good player(End-Game). The rest is too hard to compare based on the outrageous gap's between usefulness in classes.
** Example My GWF 10k most powerful skill with a respectable build does between 10-13k crit damage top with a extremely long winded animation that's easy to dodge.
CW's who's only between 7-8k does more like 15-28k damage. He also can teleport nearly 4 times before running out of stamina, which is 4 immediate dodges essentially I can dodge ever encounter someone throws at me and still have a dodge left.
TR's I don't really have an issue with outside of their insane dps in dungeons, which honestly doesn't matter because it counts with trash and really only the boss battles matters, but it gets annoying when they think they're just that good..
Killz2Many ~ Greatest Weapon Fighter ~ Dragon Shard
Post edited by killz2many on
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That only works if the TR is bad.
Its always hilarious when the people complaining the loudest about one class needing to be nerfed finally give in and roll one, and then they nerf it in the balance patch, so now they are back on the boards complaining about the fact it got nerfed, just when they were starting to enjoy it, only to find out the character they deleted was of the class that is now OP in PVP due to THEIR OWN COMPLAINING.
Don't like the fact that something is OP? Wait a month. It will be nerfed into oblivion to satisfy those who aren't happy unless everything but the class they chose to play is nerfed, in order to cover up the lack of quality of their own play. Cant win in the game? come to the forums and beat them by having them nerfed.
That.
Trying to achieve perfect "Balance" completely breaks the game - especially in a sense of immersion and community value, like we have seen with plenty of in the past. The "balance" in DnD was 'supposedly' the TR being the sneaky stealthy type who likes to stab things, the CW being the magic type using spells to cripple, freeze and explode things, and the GWF being the smash your face at point blank melee unit. Logic would dictate that of course the GWF would not be doing as much damage, but they would be harder to kill via stun locking their foes, and would deal with being swarmed, unlike the TR who would do most damage from sneaking up to their targets, attacking from behind, but having to stealth away if outnumbered. The CW on the other hand, would be able to do lots of burst damage and escape by stunning or freezing their foes, but being the most squishy and relying very hard on cooldowns would be easily overpowered in between his spells going off (which does include his teleport).
Of course, none of this matters in PvP, as PvP is really not about roleplaying and is more about having each class be able to take any other class in an even match - meaning that everyone should have roughly the same damage vs survivability, rather than excelling in any specific role or situation. Which is not saying that there is anything wrong with that. PvP orientated games are just as fun. I just thought that this was not going to be PvP orientated, considering it was marketed with main focus on DnD / player made dungeons / roleplaying and immersion MMO (check out a few interviews with the devs as to why they made the combat the way it is, why you cannot move while executing spells etc. where their answer is exactly that they wanted to achieve immersion between the player and the character).
Anyway, I was wrong to think that. Recent patch - that is coming out today I believe - is exactly what you have asked for (well almost).
- Great Weapons fighters are getting buffed in pretty much every single aspect, ability, and way.
- CWs are getting nerfed - pretty much across the board. Hard.
- TRs are actually getting slightly buffed (except for one skill - which should not have been nerfed to be honest, but it didn't go well with PvP).
- Clerics are getting nerfed in their more useful spells, and buffed in the less useful ones (apparently, I don't play a cleric so wouldn't know)
- GFs are actually being fixed.
So there you go. Rejoice.
Best thing they could have done, in my opinion, and as useless as it is at this stage I'm going to throw it out there anyway, was to:
- Remove the dps meter during content, and only allow access to it at the end of the dungeon.
- Cap all activated ability damage and debuffs in PvP by 50% without changing anything else. (If certain classes are a problem cap certain classes to certain values in PvP.)
- Fix the issues that WERE breaking classes, where multiple people could stack the same debuff on one target for uberwtfdamage. Instead of fixing those problems, AND nerfing the abilities at the same time.
I am an avid PVPer, I feel you. But you shouldnt waste your energy trying to pvp here. Just saying. At least not yet.
This isn't sadness over my 1 class that is completely gimp. It's a fact that the rogues do way to much pve dmg causing classes to be singled out because why take you when I could have even a bad player pull more dps.
I find it inane that anyone can believe for a second rogues aren't OP in PvE CW's for that matter as well, their dps is good enough for any group and their utility spells outshine anyone in PvP or PvE.
PvP they can dodge the best, they have an excellent kill shot. In PvE they're almost mandatory for CC. Which is great, that's what they're used for, but this game would provide no more challenge with no GF's or GWF. If they took away either the rogue or wizard this game would begin to break because it would be too "hard" for the general population.
There will always be a FOTM class, and by the rogues class nature they are often on that list unless they are nerfed into being an under-performing class. Keep in mind that Class balancing is a constant thing - not a one time thing. So your class might be doing great this month. Next month it might feel like it's doing a lot worse - that's the nature of MMORPG's.
With that in mind, PvP is thus far an entirely team based activity (as far as objectives and "winning" goes). Stick with your team and you'll maximize all of the classes effectiveness - unless of course your strategy involves you going off on your own, in which case, it's your bad if you get stuck facing a class that's hard for you to beat.
I personally would HATE to see this game turn out to be "all about dps" - like you seem to be suggesting - because that would make it exactly the same as every other PvP balanced action MMO out there today. Which is exactly why I'm not overly happy with the current update.
peace out crybaby
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I thought that was the purpose of a game. To have fun and relax. I mean I'm stoked when I top in DPS but not really raging if another Rogue beats me though. That just means that we finished the dungeon more quickly. Hooray - high 5s all around.
I thought that was the point of this game. To have fun and chill out.
Or are you arguing they need to add 500 more mobs with spaming AOEs to T2+ bosses. Because if that's what you're for, I will fight you tooth and nail to the death.
They shouldn't. It would be a stupid assumption to think that they do, as they exist to fulfill a different role.
DAoC infiltrators were the toughest by far to level...you pretty much needed to find a tank buddy that could help you, and I actually think they got it right...why should one class be strong at both PvP and PvE? Stealth is a *huge* advantage, and honestly, it should be focused on much more in this game. Everytime I go to mid in PvP, and I see a bunch of TR's just duking it out in the open, I cringe a little. Rogues in my mind should be opportunists... hidden paper cannons that strike the weak, not the crazy full stealth and burst you in your face builds we see in this game.
But then again, i'm slowly gearing my 60 rogue with tenebrous+plague, and permastealth so I shouldn't be talking. Tabling my GWF at lv50 until it gets some love. I leveled my rogue to 60 in roughly half the time as my GWF.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of Perfect World Entertainment, or Cryptic Studios
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Then I do not care about your DPS meter, I do not care about your kills in PvP, I only care to do my job for my team with the tools the CW class gives me, and I am doing it well, we just do Castle Never like a walk in the park, with every classes and we do not pass our time to compare our DPS, we just work together.
So TR has a good DPS ? So what ? If nerfed another class will have the best DPS and we should just cry that class X has more DPS than class Y ?
I enjoy the PvE and PvP content because of the teamwork, and I am satisfied when I did my job and helped my team, that is the only thing that matters, and not the damage I did, I do not care.
You sure you play Neverwinter Online?
And this is how you you find <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> TR player who have no skill and is carried by the class OPness.
If you think TR is OP because of that one single skill, you sir are horrible TR, but it doesn't matter, because this class can easily cover your lack of any skill.
Seriously? People should actually play a class they presume to be overpowered before complaining.
As a Rogue main, I can say Rogue is less easy mode then people think. After level 30, solo leveling will get alot tougher. Simply come out out stealth spamming Duelist and a Lashing blade? You will get killed in every monster encounter unless you waste all your gold into potions ... In the end game, a rogue need to rely strongly on stealth and staying stealthed. We have only some few AE abilties that are more or less only emergency powers and virtually no hard mass CC, like knock downs, knock backs, roots, snares etc. We also have nearly no damage reduction or damage migration which makes multiple attackers even more dangerous. In addition, because of many monster use AE attacks, you need to react quickly to not loose your stealth bar.
In PvP i pwned DC, CWs, GWFs and GF ... and was pwned back by them. So, apperently, there must be more than the factor class mechanics that determine the outcome in PvP. I guess Equipment, spec and skill play a role, too.
I don't get what you want , attention or ... pat on the shoulder what is it ?
That's all this thread is. "I play the classes I presume to be harder, so now I'm going to go brag on forum."
No one cares.
And all these people insulting others because of the fake class they picked in this virtual game are the very definition of pathetic.
Balance PVP and PVE as completely separate from each other. It is the only way one won't mess up the other. PVP and D&D have no place even looking at each other, but since every MMO in existence has decided PVP is required in class based RPG's, then the only way it will work is to have them be separate. In PVP everyone will whine if the classes aren't pretty much the **** same when all is said and done, so there are no advantages in any area that are considered OP. Classes in RPG's and especially D&D classes are however specialists, meant to work together in groups, complimenting each other. They are balanced around a team in which a class fills a specific role. They are NOT meant to be balanced against each other 1v1. Leaders heal/buff/force multiply, controllers control/dps and strikers dps like crazy, defenders tie up enemies and punish them for avoiding them. There isn't meant to be balance except maybe between classes of the same role.
This is why Cryptic will need to balance PVE and PVP separately, they seek different and incompatible goals from balance.
But listen- in this game, the imbalance is just unplayable. To say otherwise is to ignore reality or invest heavily in denial. my entire guild, which is a PVP centric guild, has taken a break while we wait for Cryptic to fix this class mess they've created. Its starting to happen soon with the upcoming patch, but we'd like to see the real impact first.
Ive seen our trickster rogue (our guild leader) crit for over 20k multiple times a match. In a game where the TTK is already borderline ridiculous, its simply too much when one class can take most of my health in two- sometimes 1, hit. He was the first to put the game down and admit his class was boring to play because of how easy it was to gib people.
On CW's- I can't even hit a halfway lucid CW most of the time, because if they are playing properly, they can dodge when I'm mid animation and roll their face over the keyboard to keep me stun-locked, then burst me down when Ive only hit them maybe twice with an at-will. If you're a CW that claims otherwise, you are straight up KP territory ('can't play' moniker for you youngins), and shouldn't be part of the intelligent discussion.
CW's, above all, are probably the most grossly overpowered PvP imbalance Ive ever seen in an MMO. A ranged class that has 4 teleport dodges they can use to mitigate any encounter mid-animation when I, a melee class, have a sprint that doesnt dodge, mitigate, or ignore anything? They have burst damage and kiting abilities on top of that? Yeah...CW's arent OP...riiiiiight....keep on believing that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I think its pretty clear with datamining efforts and, well, basic eye tests that CW's and Rogues were outperforming just about anything in PvP, which is why you see the incoming nerfs. I still will maintain that 4 teleports for a ranged CC class is OP.
Like the original poster and many others, we have fifteen guys and gals who pretty much agree with these notions, and have spoken by picking up other games while we wait and see if the PvP in this game gets balanced. If not? We're content with waiting for a game that doesn't cater overwhelmingly to 2 classes and struggle to see basic design flaws like giving a ranged damage dealer multiple control abilities along with 4 chances to completely mitigate an entire attack chain AFTER animations have started.
It doesn't make it any easier to play pvp though or fun unless you are one of the favored classes. Even the new GF builds are getting crazy, I had one CC to me to like 5% health before I could escape, didn't even get a hit in. The blocking my specials is just a dumb idea, blocking normal attacks is ok but in pvp that is just bad gameplay.