This is the beauty of D&D. You play it how you want to play it and which ever version suits you best. If you don't like 4th ed, then continue to play 3rd. If you don't like this game, then don't play it. I'd say you'd be missing out if you did as it's shaping up to be a good game, but if you're looking for actual D&D rules and mechanics with a UI on top, then you're best bet would be DDO. But then you're gonna probably complain about that in some form or other. :P
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics. Same as any other video game that uses a license doesn't need to be exactly the same as it's source, it's simply based on it. If you had to stick to the source as gospel than we wouldn't have had a load of great Star Wars games, as if they didn't follow the original 3 movies to the letter then they wouldn't be Star Wars games. But then again we wouldn't have had a lot of crappy Star Wars games either.
This isn't even 25% like the PnP game. That's the issue, and why this argument doesn't work. The only thing it shares with the PnP game are some ideas, skins, and vague concepts. Did you ever watch the Legend of the Seeker? Based on the books by Terry Goodkind? It's the same idea. The writers took the book series, got the rights to make a show, and then COMPLETLY remade the show in their own image while only vaguely referencing the source material. It was simply not the same, beyond some names, the environment, and the "Legend of the Seeker" theme.
It's like when someone takes your favorite book and makes a movie out of it that is in NO way like the book.
Mind you, I do not mind the game in a sense. It's fun, but.... it's not D&D, that's what I'm getting at. I've been waiting years and years for the "perfect" d&d game, and I had hope for this. But I'm extremely disappointed at the outcome. Will I still play it? Yes. Will I spend money on it? No. Because it's not the product I was expecting. If it was, I'd have GLADLY dropped 200$ on it, easily.
This is a D&D game in name only, your correct. It will always be a D&D game in name only with little to no actual ties to the ancient game we love sooo much. Its a hard pill to swallow for sure.
All the same, we can play this actionMMO or not play this actionMMO.
This is a D&D game in name only, your correct. It will always be a D&D game in name only with little to no actual ties to the ancient game we love sooo much. Its a hard pill to swallow for sure.
All the same, we can play this actionMMO or not play this actionMMO.
This is a D&D game in name only, your correct. It will always be a D&D game in name only with little to no actual ties to the ancient game we love sooo much. Its a hard pill to swallow for sure.
All the same, we can play this actionMMO or not play this actionMMO.
You know, I've been struggling with this since the game came out...and you're the first person to so eloquently disarm me. Because you're right. It is what it is and there's not much that can be done to change that.
This is the beauty of D&D. You play it how you want to play it and which ever version suits you best. If you don't like 4th ed, then continue to play 3rd. If you don't like this game, then don't play it. I'd say you'd be missing out if you did as it's shaping up to be a good game, but if you're looking for actual D&D rules and mechanics with a UI on top, then you're best bet would be DDO. But then you're gonna probably complain about that in some form or other. :P
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics. Same as any other video game that uses a license doesn't need to be exactly the same as it's source, it's simply based on it. If you had to stick to the source as gospel than we wouldn't have had a load of great Star Wars games, as if they didn't follow the original 3 movies to the letter then they wouldn't be Star Wars games. But then again we wouldn't have had a lot of crappy Star Wars games either.
You are missing the point... this game is far from being close to any version of d&d.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
This is the beauty of D&D. You play it how you want to play it and which ever version suits you best. If you don't like 4th ed, then continue to play 3rd. If you don't like this game, then don't play it. I'd say you'd be missing out if you did as it's shaping up to be a good game, but if you're looking for actual D&D rules and mechanics with a UI on top, then you're best bet would be DDO. But then you're gonna probably complain about that in some form or other. :P
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics. Same as any other video game that uses a license doesn't need to be exactly the same as it's source, it's simply based on it. If you had to stick to the source as gospel than we wouldn't have had a load of great Star Wars games, as if they didn't follow the original 3 movies to the letter then they wouldn't be Star Wars games. But then again we wouldn't have had a lot of crappy Star Wars games either.
I agree, I was just stating in the PnP version what I preferred lol, I like NW and think it is shaping up very nicely myself.
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics.
Howabout the quote on the MAIN PAGE from the dev video that starts playing automatically.... you know...the one that in which the VERY first line is "Neverwinter, a game by D&D fans... FOR D&D fans..." I'm pretty sure that constitutes "claiming" to be a D&D game.
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beriielkisrin1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
You are missing the point... this game is far from being close to any version of d&d.
There are more gamers than d&d players than d&d players who what to game in an mmo. That's why. DDO is the closest, and not by much. The P&P players left mostly years ago for that reason.
No offense, but most people don't want to rp and "explore" a dungeon. That's what P&P is for.
It's an mmo, and set in Neverwinter with Forgotten Realms lore. That's enough for a lot of people.
There are more gamers than d&d players than d&d players who what to game in an mmo. That's why. DDO is the closest, and not by much. The P&P players left mostly years ago for that reason.
No offense, but most people don't want to rp and "explore" a dungeon. That's what P&P is for.
It's an mmo, and set in Neverwinter with Forgotten Realms lore. That's enough for a lot of people.
I understand your point, no offense taken. ^^
I am not expecting this to be 100% like d&d 4e.
What I am (was) expecting, was a better implementation of d&d 4e into this game , say like 75-80%. When I started playing the game (beginning of OB), I enjoyed it because it has some d&d 4e features, but now after 1 month it is the same and the game will be released in 11 days... and the game is ~30-40% d&d4e.
I played NWN for a long time, the campaigns and multiplayer, and I can tell that it was way closer to d&d3e, than what this game is to d&d4e.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
What I am (was) expecting, was a better implementation of d&d 4e into this game , say like 75-80%. When I started playing the game (beginning of OB), I enjoyed it because it has some d&d 4e features, but now after 1 month it is the same and the game will be released in 11 days... and the game is ~30-40% d&d4e.
I played NWN for a long time, the campaigns and multiplayer, and I can tell that it was way closer to d&d 3.5, than what this game is to d&d4e.
At this point i think its common knowledge that WoC wants a piece of the wow gen mmo money world that made warcraft so popular. The stamping of D&D onto the box cover is just a way to try and lure players like yourself to give this game a look. And while hardcore D&D players will not ever have there expectations met. Here a bunch of us are. They duped us essentially into lowering our standards. It worked...
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
This is a D&D game in name only, your correct. It will always be a D&D game in name only with little to no actual ties to the ancient game we love sooo much. Its a hard pill to swallow for sure.
All the same, we can play this actionMMO or not play this actionMMO.
Actually your incorrect. It is very much a 4th Edition D&D game but yes it is nothing like 3rd edition or earlier. Wizards of the Coast is not licensing the older game format to new computer games. Only allowing existing games to continue their existing licenses.
What you are complaining about are very much the complaints some people have with 4th Edition. Which is one of the reasons why 5th edition is looking somewhat different from 4th edition.
Its a business. Your not gonna pull the wow gen into a complex D&D environment. Its gotta be constant action, running wild with your hair on fire. Thinking turns the masses away. You need dumbed down rules and lots of button pushing. Its the way it is now...:( Obviously over time this game wont satisfy the ever growing D&D itch for the RP traditionalist. Its fun though. for now.
Actually your incorrect. It is very much a 4th Edition D&D game but yes it is nothing like 3rd edition or earlier. Wizards of the Coast is not licensing the older game format to new computer games. Only allowing existing games to continue their existing licenses.
What you are complaining about are very much the complaints some people have with 4th Edition. Which is one of the reasons why 5th edition is looking somewhat different from 4th edition.
IMO 4e is a dumbed down garbage edition. Hardly D&D it its own right.... IMO
I agree with the OP. If this game were even 50% D&D then I could buy some of the counter-arguments from the "this is a computer game" side. The problem is it's not even 50%, and with modern computing power that is a percentage that is easily achieved. The tired old argument of a computer game cannot be close to PnP was throughly disproved by both Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1&2. Plus this is most certainly supposed to be Dungeons & Dragons. Just look at the header of this page above the word Neverwinter. This game has great potential to meet the expectations of those of us who want more D&D architecture. Whether or not it lives up to this potential is what I am waiting to see. In any case there are a few Foundry episodes that really try to have the flavour a D&D module, so I am also curious how that community makes out.
I agree with the OP. If this game were even 50% D&D then I could buy some of the counter-arguments from the "this is a computer game" side. The problem is it's not even 50%, and with modern computing power that is a percentage that is easily achieved. The tired old argument of a computer game cannot be close to PnP was throughly disproved by both Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1&2. Plus this is most certainly supposed to be Dungeons & Dragons. Just look at the header of this page above the word Neverwinter. This game has great potential to meet the expectations of those of us who want more D&D architecture. Whether or not it lives up to this potential is what I am waiting to see. In any case there are a few Foundry episodes that really try to have the flavour a D&D module, so I am also curious how that community makes out.
This is just not arguable at all and nothing more then facts imo. Heres the thing though, WoCs goal with this game isnt to please the D&D community. Its to try and get wow gen to hand them money. This game is not for us. Its for the masses. The much larger player pool of action junkies. WoC must get a piece of that pie.
Its a business. Your not gonna pull the wow gen into a complex D&D environment. Its gotta be constant action, running wild with your hair on fire. Thinking turns the masses away. You need dumbed down rules and lots of button pushing. Its the way it is now...:( Obviously over time this game wont satisfy the ever growing D&D itch for the RP traditionalist. Its fun though. for now.
Your right, aiming to please the lowest common denominator. Thinking, reading, and writing is a thing of the past. Soon the young will be to lazy to push buttons, it will require too much effort on their part.
Your right, aiming to please the lowest common denominator. Thinking, reading, and writing is a thing of the past. Soon the young will be to lazy to push buttons, it will require too much effort on their part.
Agreed. The foundry is nice though. That really brings the D&D creative aspect to this game. I really hope they expand on the whole idea, it will keep this game alive.
Cryptic definitely needs to always keep in mind the D&D audience in this game, for it will make or break the overall success of the game. The mmo audience alone can't bring the prize home!
Cryptic definitely needs to always keep in mind the D&D audience in this game, for it will make or break the overall success of the game. The mmo audience alone can't bring the prize home!
Man that sounds good..... not gonna hold my breath though.:)
Actually your incorrect. It is very much a 4th Edition D&D game
Actually, it is not like a 4th edition, nor any other. People repeating that this is 4th ed not 3rd one should finally stop. It's not true.
- no single attribute or skill check as in pnp game, or save roll
- no single test in the whole game rolled with "virtual" d20 dice, though surely game uses some kind of radomisation, it must
- no damage and hit point calculation like in pnp game, be it from powers or regular attacks
- no CR on monsters
- no character creation like in pnp game
- no level progression like in PnP game, what is named a paragon tree is just a feat tree like in CO and now in STO
- no combat mechanics like in pnp game (though this one is justified as PnP game is turn based, it couldn't work in actionMMO)
- xp and levels also aren't calculated like in pnp game
- as this game has no day/night cycle, names for powers like "at will", "encounter" and "daily" are just arbitrary names for various cooldown length.
So what exactly the game has from 4th ed? Names for attributes, skills and classes? Those are just tags and textures.
Let's say I'll make a PnP game using completely unrelated mechanic with all tests rolled with d100, but it will have six attributes and all powers and classes named like in 4th ed (but only named, underlying mechanic will be mine and unrelated to d20).
It will not be DnD, at any rate. This is exactly the same situation with NW.
Not a real problem as NW is in general a fairly good game, but please, people should stop repeat that this is a DnD mechanics, or it has anything in common with DnD, save for names. It's simply not true.
What this game is using is the same mechanic being used in other Cryptic games, like STO and CO. This particular incarnation is more action oriented, but people who played previous Cryptic games are already seeing a lot of similarities.
Playable, for sure. But not DnD.
Actually, it is not like a 4th edition, nor any other. People repeating that this is 4th ed not 3rd one should finally stop. It's not true.
- no single attribute or skill check as in pnp game, or save roll
- no single test in the whole game rolled with "virtual" d20 dice, though surely game uses some kind of radomisation, it must
- no damage and hit point calculation like in pnp game, be it from powers or regular attacks
- no CR on monsters
- no character creation like in pnp game
- no level progression like in PnP game, what is named a paragon tree is just a feat tree like in CO and now in STO
- no combat mechanics like in pnp game (though this one is justified as PnP game is turn based, it couldn't work in actionMMO)
- xp and levels also aren't calculated like in pnp game
- as this game has no day/night cycle, names for powers like "at will", "encounter" and "dailY" are just arbitrary names for various cooldown lengt
So what exactly the game has from 4th ed? Names for attributes, skills and classes? Those are just tags and textures.
Let's say I'll make a PnP game using completely unrelated mechanic with all tests rolled with d100, but it will have six attributes and all powers and classes named like in 4th ed (but only named, underlying mechanic will be mine and unrelated to d20).
It will not be DnD, at any rate. This is exactly the same situation with NW.
Not a real problem as NW is in general a fairly good game, but please, people should stop repeat that this is a DnD mechanics, or it has anything in common with DnD, save for names. It's simply not true.
What this game is using is the same mechanic being used in other Cryptic games, like STO and CO. This particular incarnation is more action oriented, but people who played previous Cryptic games are already seeing a lot of similarities.
Playable, for sure. But not DnD.
Obviously all true. I have the 4e source books. Little to nothing matches of course. Its not 4e its not D&D...... But if devs could just implement some of the actual rules and ideologies it would greatly increase the quality of the game. Btw, there's much more then just that list of stuff as well. One of my favorites is that AC isnt hit or miss. AC has been hit or miss in every single D&D game, tabletop, video game.... all of them...... *sighs*...... In name only my friend.
Meh. Played PnP D&D from blue-book basic up through 2nd ed. Played all sorts of different digital versions of D&D since the early 80's (the SSI games, the arcade game, Bioware's Baldur's Gate, NWN, the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance ARPG/hackslash game, DDO, this).
My only real exposure to AD&D3 is NWN. My only real exposure to 3.5 is DDO (where it comes across horribly, mostly because DDO is a hardcore number-cruncher min/max fest - 10000 character options that mostly boil down to 9995 ways to utterly screw up your character).
It's all D&D to me.
..... MMORPG.....
Lots of people play it, and its and online Role Playing game. Thats even more confusing.
From what i see its a shoot um up, hack and slash with no RP.
So what you're saying is.... it's an MMO? (Seriously, except for the random folks talking in fake-Olde-English accents as they /emote in the corner of an Inn, I've pretty much seen no "RP" in any MMO I've played in the last decade. Digital RPGs don't have a lot of "RP" to start with, but MMOs have even less. They're combat games. Of course, so are a lot of PnP campaigns, depending on the GM & players. You know, the age-old conflict between "roll players" and "role players" )
Meh. Played PnP D&D from blue-book basic up through 2nd ed. Played all sorts of different digital versions of D&D since the early 80's (the SSI games, the arcade game, Bioware's Baldur's Gate, NWN, the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance ARPG/hackslash game, DDO, this).
My only real exposure to AD&D3 is NWN. My only real exposure to 3.5 is DDO (where it comes across horribly, mostly because DDO is a hardcore number-cruncher min/max fest - 10000 character options that mostly boil down to 9995 ways to utterly screw up your character).
It's all D&D to me.
So what you're saying is.... it's an MMO? (Seriously, except for the random folks talking in fake-Olde-English accents as they /emote in the corner of an Inn, I've pretty much seen no "RP" in any MMO I've played in the last decade. Digital RPGs don't have a lot of "RP" to start with, but MMOs have even less. They're combat games. Of course, so are a lot of PnP campaigns, depending on the GM & players. You know, the age-old conflict between "roll players" and "role players" )
Lol, yes indeed i am familiar with the dice mongers and the actual role player. Im simply stating that RPG is short for "role playing game" which Neverwinter is not.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited June 2013
But 4th edition is awful, why would you want that?
But 4th edition is awful, why would you want that?
Worse then awful. I think it all ties in, a giant campaign to get into the wow gen. I maintain my opinion that 4e was not created for the D&D community but created to launch online mmo games, thats were the money is. Dumbed down rules that attract the masses. Real D&D is simply to hardcore and complex to attract the masses. It takes time, and reading and learning, and due research to play in a D&D campaign were thinking and unique ideas are by far more important then blazing through the game consumed by material gain. The punchline is that these dumbed down 4e rules ARE NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED!. lol Cryptic has managed to dumb down the dumbed down 4e . gah.
This is the beauty of D&D. You play it how you want to play it and which ever version suits you best. If you don't like 4th ed, then continue to play 3rd. If you don't like this game, then don't play it. I'd say you'd be missing out if you did as it's shaping up to be a good game, but if you're looking for actual D&D rules and mechanics with a UI on top, then you're best bet would be DDO. But then you're gonna probably complain about that in some form or other. :P
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics. Same as any other video game that uses a license doesn't need to be exactly the same as it's source, it's simply based on it. If you had to stick to the source as gospel than we wouldn't have had a load of great Star Wars games, as if they didn't follow the original 3 movies to the letter then they wouldn't be Star Wars games. But then again we wouldn't have had a lot of crappy Star Wars games either.
So you never read the advertisements? "A rich D&D experience" is one of the talking points. It fell short of that, unless 4e really took D&D backwards 20 years or so? Is it part of the rules in 4e that only fighters can see secret doors? That only NPCs use bows? (this may indeed be fixed at some point, hopefully soon)That there are no skill checks for disabling traps? That there are no locked doors that need picking? Note that all of these could easily be incorporated into an MMO, and have been, and have also been incorporated into online games such as NWN. There are Bluff checks, there are Diplo checks, none of which are even remotely possible here. This is part of the "rich D&D experience" that was used to draw people here, and which wasn't delivered. Now, it's an MMOARPG that gets it's essentially PvE elements nerfed to allow for PvP, disregarding it's roots, or, rather, what was promised to be it's roots in it's advertisements.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
So you never read the advertisements? "A rich D&D experience" is one of the talking points. It fell short of that, unless 4e really took D&D backwards 20 years or so? Is it part of the rules in 4e that only fighters can see secret doors? That only NPCs use bows? (this may indeed be fixed at some point, hopefully soon)That there are no skill checks for disabling traps? That there are no locked doors that need picking? Note that all of these could easily be incorporated into an MMO, and have been, and have also been incorporated into online games such as NWN. There are Bluff checks, there are Diplo checks, none of which are even remotely possible here. This is part of the "rich D&D experience" that was used to draw people here, and which wasn't delivered. Now, it's an MMOARPG that gets it's essentially PvE elements nerfed to allow for PvP, disregarding it's roots, or, rather, what was promised to be it's roots in it's advertisements.
I think we both know that "A rich D&D experience" is nothing more then a publicity stunt to try and acquire some the the D&D pop into this game that is clearly designed to bring in the much larger wow gen mate. Its a lie.... but what advertisements arent lies these days? Par for the course and hardly surprising.
I think we both know that "A rich D&D experience" is nothing more then a publicity stunt to try and acquire some the the D&D pop into this game that is clearly designed to bring in the much larger wow gen mate. Its a lie.... but what advertisements arent lies these days? Par for the course and hardly surprising.
True enough, and the game is fun enough, despite the lack of D&D feel. I just have to remember that it's not what it was advertised to be, at least, not completely.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I never got why people thought it was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>... i liked it and still do! at least they didnt have to live up to everyone's per-conceived ideas of what it should be like a la Forgotten Realms and now they expanding into the realms you have the best of both worlds.
Comments
Also, I don't think this game has ever claimed to be a D&D game. It's simply set in Neverwinter, it doesn't need to run on core D&D rules and mechanics. Same as any other video game that uses a license doesn't need to be exactly the same as it's source, it's simply based on it. If you had to stick to the source as gospel than we wouldn't have had a load of great Star Wars games, as if they didn't follow the original 3 movies to the letter then they wouldn't be Star Wars games. But then again we wouldn't have had a lot of crappy Star Wars games either.
This is a D&D game in name only, your correct. It will always be a D&D game in name only with little to no actual ties to the ancient game we love sooo much. Its a hard pill to swallow for sure.
All the same, we can play this actionMMO or not play this actionMMO.
Well said.
You know, I've been struggling with this since the game came out...and you're the first person to so eloquently disarm me. Because you're right. It is what it is and there's not much that can be done to change that.
You are missing the point... this game is far from being close to any version of d&d.
"The harder the game, the better."
I agree, I was just stating in the PnP version what I preferred lol, I like NW and think it is shaping up very nicely myself.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Howabout the quote on the MAIN PAGE from the dev video that starts playing automatically.... you know...the one that in which the VERY first line is "Neverwinter, a game by D&D fans... FOR D&D fans..." I'm pretty sure that constitutes "claiming" to be a D&D game.
There are more gamers than d&d players than d&d players who what to game in an mmo. That's why. DDO is the closest, and not by much. The P&P players left mostly years ago for that reason.
No offense, but most people don't want to rp and "explore" a dungeon. That's what P&P is for.
It's an mmo, and set in Neverwinter with Forgotten Realms lore. That's enough for a lot of people.
I understand your point, no offense taken. ^^
I am not expecting this to be 100% like d&d 4e.
What I am (was) expecting, was a better implementation of d&d 4e into this game , say like 75-80%. When I started playing the game (beginning of OB), I enjoyed it because it has some d&d 4e features, but now after 1 month it is the same and the game will be released in 11 days... and the game is ~30-40% d&d4e.
I played NWN for a long time, the campaigns and multiplayer, and I can tell that it was way closer to d&d3e, than what this game is to d&d4e.
"The harder the game, the better."
At this point i think its common knowledge that WoC wants a piece of the wow gen mmo money world that made warcraft so popular. The stamping of D&D onto the box cover is just a way to try and lure players like yourself to give this game a look. And while hardcore D&D players will not ever have there expectations met. Here a bunch of us are. They duped us essentially into lowering our standards. It worked...
Actually your incorrect. It is very much a 4th Edition D&D game but yes it is nothing like 3rd edition or earlier. Wizards of the Coast is not licensing the older game format to new computer games. Only allowing existing games to continue their existing licenses.
What you are complaining about are very much the complaints some people have with 4th Edition. Which is one of the reasons why 5th edition is looking somewhat different from 4th edition.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
IMO 4e is a dumbed down garbage edition. Hardly D&D it its own right.... IMO
This is just not arguable at all and nothing more then facts imo. Heres the thing though, WoCs goal with this game isnt to please the D&D community. Its to try and get wow gen to hand them money. This game is not for us. Its for the masses. The much larger player pool of action junkies. WoC must get a piece of that pie.
Why do people assume they should have everything for free?
Agreed. The foundry is nice though. That really brings the D&D creative aspect to this game. I really hope they expand on the whole idea, it will keep this game alive.
Cryptic definitely needs to always keep in mind the D&D audience in this game, for it will make or break the overall success of the game. The mmo audience alone can't bring the prize home!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Man that sounds good..... not gonna hold my breath though.:)
Actually, it is not like a 4th edition, nor any other. People repeating that this is 4th ed not 3rd one should finally stop. It's not true.
- no single attribute or skill check as in pnp game, or save roll
- no single test in the whole game rolled with "virtual" d20 dice, though surely game uses some kind of radomisation, it must
- no damage and hit point calculation like in pnp game, be it from powers or regular attacks
- no CR on monsters
- no character creation like in pnp game
- no level progression like in PnP game, what is named a paragon tree is just a feat tree like in CO and now in STO
- no combat mechanics like in pnp game (though this one is justified as PnP game is turn based, it couldn't work in actionMMO)
- xp and levels also aren't calculated like in pnp game
- as this game has no day/night cycle, names for powers like "at will", "encounter" and "daily" are just arbitrary names for various cooldown length.
So what exactly the game has from 4th ed? Names for attributes, skills and classes? Those are just tags and textures.
Let's say I'll make a PnP game using completely unrelated mechanic with all tests rolled with d100, but it will have six attributes and all powers and classes named like in 4th ed (but only named, underlying mechanic will be mine and unrelated to d20).
It will not be DnD, at any rate. This is exactly the same situation with NW.
Not a real problem as NW is in general a fairly good game, but please, people should stop repeat that this is a DnD mechanics, or it has anything in common with DnD, save for names. It's simply not true.
What this game is using is the same mechanic being used in other Cryptic games, like STO and CO. This particular incarnation is more action oriented, but people who played previous Cryptic games are already seeing a lot of similarities.
Playable, for sure. But not DnD.
Obviously all true. I have the 4e source books. Little to nothing matches of course. Its not 4e its not D&D...... But if devs could just implement some of the actual rules and ideologies it would greatly increase the quality of the game. Btw, there's much more then just that list of stuff as well. One of my favorites is that AC isnt hit or miss. AC has been hit or miss in every single D&D game, tabletop, video game.... all of them...... *sighs*...... In name only my friend.
My only real exposure to AD&D3 is NWN. My only real exposure to 3.5 is DDO (where it comes across horribly, mostly because DDO is a hardcore number-cruncher min/max fest - 10000 character options that mostly boil down to 9995 ways to utterly screw up your character).
It's all D&D to me.
So what you're saying is.... it's an MMO? (Seriously, except for the random folks talking in fake-Olde-English accents as they /emote in the corner of an Inn, I've pretty much seen no "RP" in any MMO I've played in the last decade. Digital RPGs don't have a lot of "RP" to start with, but MMOs have even less. They're combat games. Of course, so are a lot of PnP campaigns, depending on the GM & players. You know, the age-old conflict between "roll players" and "role players"
Lol, yes indeed i am familiar with the dice mongers and the actual role player. Im simply stating that RPG is short for "role playing game" which Neverwinter is not.
Because it would be easier to improve a poorly-implemented d&d4e that to start over with an older one, 11 days before the release; don't you think?
"The harder the game, the better."
Worse then awful. I think it all ties in, a giant campaign to get into the wow gen. I maintain my opinion that 4e was not created for the D&D community but created to launch online mmo games, thats were the money is. Dumbed down rules that attract the masses. Real D&D is simply to hardcore and complex to attract the masses. It takes time, and reading and learning, and due research to play in a D&D campaign were thinking and unique ideas are by far more important then blazing through the game consumed by material gain. The punchline is that these dumbed down 4e rules ARE NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED!. lol Cryptic has managed to dumb down the dumbed down 4e . gah.
So you never read the advertisements? "A rich D&D experience" is one of the talking points. It fell short of that, unless 4e really took D&D backwards 20 years or so? Is it part of the rules in 4e that only fighters can see secret doors? That only NPCs use bows? (this may indeed be fixed at some point, hopefully soon)That there are no skill checks for disabling traps? That there are no locked doors that need picking? Note that all of these could easily be incorporated into an MMO, and have been, and have also been incorporated into online games such as NWN. There are Bluff checks, there are Diplo checks, none of which are even remotely possible here. This is part of the "rich D&D experience" that was used to draw people here, and which wasn't delivered. Now, it's an MMOARPG that gets it's essentially PvE elements nerfed to allow for PvP, disregarding it's roots, or, rather, what was promised to be it's roots in it's advertisements.
I think we both know that "A rich D&D experience" is nothing more then a publicity stunt to try and acquire some the the D&D pop into this game that is clearly designed to bring in the much larger wow gen mate. Its a lie.... but what advertisements arent lies these days? Par for the course and hardly surprising.
True enough, and the game is fun enough, despite the lack of D&D feel. I just have to remember that it's not what it was advertised to be, at least, not completely.
I never got why people thought it was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>... i liked it and still do! at least they didnt have to live up to everyone's per-conceived ideas of what it should be like a la Forgotten Realms and now they expanding into the realms you have the best of both worlds.