What a suprise a bunch of people who can't admit the obvious. Look I've been in groups with other GWF I have never had one do more dps or get more points probably even kills than me. So by saying that I just don't know how to play my class is stupid. Not to mention I play other classes, I can do way more dps without even trying on my rogue who is about 3k less in gear rating than my gwf.
This isn't sadness over my 1 class that is completely gimp. It's a fact that the rogues do way to much pve dmg causing classes to be singled out because why take you when I could have even a bad player pull more dps.
I find it inane that anyone can believe for a second rogues aren't OP in PvE CW's for that matter as well, their dps is good enough for any group and their utility spells outshine anyone in PvP or PvE.
PvP they can dodge the best, they have an excellent kill shot. In PvE they're almost mandatory for CC. Which is great, that's what they're used for, but this game would provide no more challenge with no GF's or GWF. If they took away either the rogue or wizard this game would begin to break because it would be too "hard" for the general population.
You talk about it being to "hard" for players if they removed CW/TR. It's pretty hard to do ridiculous amount of damage, gaining CC immunity and a run speed based on how much damage you take must be pretty hard too. Not to mention the stacks of armor. Seriously, you're acting like a child with your whining without even looking at the perks of your own class. A GOOD GWF would easily handle a CW.
Here's a great idea....stop whining about PvP balance in a PvE game. I know, it's a unique and novel concept. And some PvPer's start to have a brain hemorrhage when they are told a game is NOT PvP centric. But unfortunately, the vocal minority are very loud. What's even worse is that the Devs, in any game, have not learned to ignore them....
Trying to achieve perfect "Balance" completely breaks the game
It's not about perfect balance and if people "actually" read entire posts they would understand that. If a game has classes that are no longer viable, than it is something that needs to be addressed. If someone can't understand that.. We'll what's the point trying to explain to people like that. If you don't think 2 + 2 = 4 there is nothing I can do about it.
Here's a great idea....stop whining about PvP balance in a PvE game. I know, it's a unique and novel concept. And some PvPer's start to have a brain hemorrhage when they are told a game is NOT PvP centric. But unfortunately, the vocal minority are very loud. What's even worse is that the Devs, in any game, have not learned to ignore them....
The PvP is far more balanced than the PvE is, so your argument isn't going to hold up. I at least can see classes being usefull in PvP when the players are good at their class.
PvE on the other hand... GWF and GF are not viable classes. Say what you want, but spend some time reading zone chat on any server no one is asking for GWF or GF for their groups unless it's a easymode dungeon.
I've been told about 100 times when I ask to join a "LF1M DPS" that they need a dps when I'm on my GWF. That my friend is a broken game.
Well I do believe you got your wish when it comes to PvE.
Rogue's major at will -> duelist furry, has had it's crit severity bonus decrease from 75% to 15%, bleed proc from ticking once every sec to once every 2 sec, and on top of all that, if you are good enough to keep up the bleed all the time, it will stop ticking damage after 7 secs.
Rogues will probably no longer be #1 dps after the patch. Ranged DPS or Tanky DPS will probably be the the best DPS. All's right with the world.
Even though the first rebalance patch won't solve all issues I think it's a move in the good direction. People focus on DPS but as a GWF, one of the most frustrating part in PVP was getting hit by multiple snares and not having any ability counting as dodge... Now our leap will be a dodge and it will make quite a difference. I stopped counting the amount of times I was jumping to finish an opponent only to get snared in the air right before reaching my target and losing 30k of HP in 3 seconds...
Yes there are a lot of other factor involved... how you play with, against and such. I'm not the best player ever and I'm not expecting to win every combat for sure, but I still think the patch will make playing a GWF a lot more fun and less frustrating. It will also make the GWF a class more interesting to have around in a dungeon. Well, I do hope so. eheh.
There are good players, and there are bad players regardless of class. CW|TR are the FoTM classes, so everyone will reroll as one, and then they *WILL* get nerfed into the ground eventually(I think SE nerf is just the start).
PvP in it's current state, there's no concept of skill-level, just chaotic matches...which CW and TR are both the masters of.
Just remember to keep learning and have fun, that's why you're playing in the first place.
There are good players, and there are bad players regardless of class. CW|TR are the FoTM classes, so everyone will reroll as one, and then they *WILL* get nerfed into the ground eventually(I think SE nerf is just the start).
PvP in it's current state, there's no concept of skill-level, just chaotic matches...which CW and TR are both the masters of.
Just remember to keep learning and have fun, that's why you're playing in the first place.
indeed. too many people take it too seriously... I was slightly frustrated at pvp and dungeons but I had a lot of fun levelling to 60. I also won't lose sleep over getting steamrolled in pvp
What is it with the TR and CW with their n*o*ob-calling and trash talking after killing their opponents? So you have great skills (*sarcasm*) and can kill others easily in pvp, great! Give yourself a pat on the back but don't sink so low as to go around humiliating your opponents. Geez! I'm finding this behavior getting too frequent. I guess some people just want to feel superior because they suck so much in real life!
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
ps skill cap in this game for any class is a joke
pps while there are large class imbalances, this is increased exponentially upon gear discrepancies, perhaps if cw's and tr's were only allowed to wear uncommon gear with lvl 1 enchantments.
pms there is always going to be some sort of class imbalance that someone will figure out and use to kill the 98% of bads that play this game. the bads QQ there, PE zone chat, and here... vicious cycle.. least they could do is offer more cowbell for the 0 dollars i've spent to support this game.
the other classes do not need a nerf, but gwf and GF need buffs. i want to see GWF being able to do crazy aoe damage so you dont have to resort to pushing **** off ledges. or give them ability to apply debuffs or buffs to party, shouts or what not.
i just started this game but i feel like iim reading a thread from people who have never actually played D&D and just want a free MMORPG
As only ONE person has mentioned, this is a DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS BASED GAME, which means its really about how your party works together, therefore classes are SUPPOSED to be unbalanced
ONE class is SUPPOSED to be able to out DPS another class(ROGUE) while other classes are SUPPOSED to handle being DPSd(SWORD/SHIELD TANK) while another class is meant to control others with spells or aggro(WIZ/TANK) and another to heal(you guessed it, CLERIC)
now with that being said, a Tank should NOT be able to 1v1 a rogue, a tank is made to take hits while he is healed so he can continue to take hits! PERIOD! that is his role!
A Rogue SHOULD be scared of being outnumbered as they deal ONE ON ONE DAMAGE(hint to crying tanks w/o healers)
A Wizard has no defense, she relies heavily on AoE DPS and Singular Control as well as her party (Tank W/ healer) to keep her alive
This just leaves oour tanks, who ive read all about how they dont do DMG but not one person has gloated on their health or AC, which is of course their key feature, ability scores should be CON as priority, STR as secondary and Dex of course
as this game is new i expect there to be balance issues (just like the ACTUAL D&D SURPRISE SURPRISE) but if you build your party and role your classes properly then skill lvls are all that remain, no matter the flood you make with your tears a rogue should always be main DPS (unless competing with a hunter{Range DPS/Control}) and the best class is always druid/cleric, they take the most player skill and are the most unappreciated, and in the end DPS shouldnt count for HAMSTER UNLESS ITS ONE ON ONE, and even then control beats DPS, PVP should only exist as bonus game content and be unbalanced
i have an actual D&D char that only grapples to control a single mob at a time, he deals little to no damage, i love him, between control(of1) and aggro(all) and mass health due to a high CON score and improved toughness my allies can safely kill and my cleric is in no rush to heal me over our squishys, he is epic and takes ALOT b4 going down, but he does little DPS and cannot handle even a decent rogue without help, that being said there are mobs that will kill a little rogue while my tank stays healthy and controls the flow of battle in his favor
D&D IS NOT PVP! unless the campaign you start otherwise declares so and even then there SHOULD be more storyboard than combat
if you roll a tank and expect him to keep up with a rogue 1v1 or in DPS your an idiot, if you think a tanks health should be balanced with a rogues DPS your only barely right, let me put it this way:
a man says : i can throw a punch
another man says : i can take a hit
the first man stabs him
the point is no matter how well you can take a hit or how well your armour, a weapon thats purpose IS TO HURT YOU in the hands of one who has trained to sneakily attack you before you see it coming with deadly precision will win, IE: dagger cant stab THROUGH leather, rogue says, ok ill stab AROUND it
and now that thats said i will say that a tank SHOULD be the hardest to control or hurt!
PVPers should play real D&D first or go PVP another game IMO
BTW everything i post is IMO so save your tears k? thx hun
balance? if you want balance party up...each class is there to compliment the other classes...i'm sure most of you know this since you are playing an mmo,,,maybe some of you are new to this concept,,,if you only want to play pvp then go play battlefield or halo...otherwise just shut up and have fun playing a pretty awesome FREE game...
Here's a great idea....stop whining about PvP balance in a PvE game. I know, it's a unique and novel concept. And some PvPer's start to have a brain hemorrhage when they are told a game is NOT PvP centric. But unfortunately, the vocal minority are very loud. What's even worse is that the Devs, in any game, have not learned to ignore them....
Then don't have it, to me it's the only fun part/challenge in this game otherwise it's a standard theme park mmo w/DnD skins/names. Been there done that 50 times over now.
i just started this game but i feel like iim reading a thread from people who have never actually played D&D and just want a free MMORPG
As only ONE person has mentioned, this is a DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS BASED GAME, which means its really about how your party works together, therefore classes are SUPPOSED to be unbalanced
ONE class is SUPPOSED to be able to out DPS another class(ROGUE) while other classes are SUPPOSED to handle being DPSd(SWORD/SHIELD TANK) while another class is meant to control others with spells or aggro(WIZ/TANK) and another to heal(you guessed it, CLERIC)
now with that being said, a Tank should NOT be able to 1v1 a rogue, a tank is made to take hits while he is healed so he can continue to take hits! PERIOD! that is his role!
A Rogue SHOULD be scared of being outnumbered as they deal ONE ON ONE DAMAGE(hint to crying tanks w/o healers)
A Wizard has no defense, she relies heavily on AoE DPS and Singular Control as well as her party (Tank W/ healer) to keep her alive
This just leaves oour tanks, who ive read all about how they dont do DMG but not one person has gloated on their health or AC, which is of course their key feature, ability scores should be CON as priority, STR as secondary and Dex of course
as this game is new i expect there to be balance issues (just like the ACTUAL D&D SURPRISE SURPRISE) but if you build your party and role your classes properly then skill lvls are all that remain, no matter the flood you make with your tears a rogue should always be main DPS (unless competing with a hunter{Range DPS/Control}) and the best class is always druid/cleric, they take the most player skill and are the most unappreciated, and in the end DPS shouldnt count for HAMSTER UNLESS ITS ONE ON ONE, and even then control beats DPS, PVP should only exist as bonus game content and be unbalanced
i have an actual D&D char that only grapples to control a single mob at a time, he deals little to no damage, i love him, between control(of1) and aggro(all) and mass health due to a high CON score and improved toughness my allies can safely kill and my cleric is in no rush to heal me over our squishys, he is epic and takes ALOT b4 going down, but he does little DPS and cannot handle even a decent rogue without help, that being said there are mobs that will kill a little rogue while my tank stays healthy and controls the flow of battle in his favor
D&D IS NOT PVP! unless the campaign you start otherwise declares so and even then there SHOULD be more storyboard than combat
if you roll a tank and expect him to keep up with a rogue 1v1 or in DPS your an idiot, if you think a tanks health should be balanced with a rogues DPS your only barely right, let me put it this way:
a man says : i can throw a punch
another man says : i can take a hit
the first man stabs him
the point is no matter how well you can take a hit or how well your armour, a weapon thats purpose IS TO HURT YOU in the hands of one who has trained to sneakily attack you before you see it coming with deadly precision will win, IE: dagger cant stab THROUGH leather, rogue says, ok ill stab AROUND it
and now that thats said i will say that a tank SHOULD be the hardest to control or hurt!
PVPers should play real D&D first or go PVP another game IMO
BTW everything i post is IMO so save your tears k? thx hun
Keep the pve the way it is, you don't have to change that, but if you are going to have pvp in your game you either need to make parties balanced by making it so you get like a party 3 dps, 1 healer, 1 tank, but at 60 it's more like 2 TR, 2 CW and my gimped GWF who get's one shotted by the other 5 players in the match. Or you need to balance the classes to their strengths. Right now Cooldowns on rogues skills is crazy short, and just the opposite on the GWF, rogues have insane crit/damage mitigation, ability to dodge, kill from stealth, CW have crazy damage mitigation as well, the ability to keep you CC or at distance indefinitely and the ability to 1 shot as well.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
My 1st 60 was a GF and my second was a TR. I also have a 51 DC. I can say that, so far, the rogue has been both the fastest but also the squishiest character to level up. Sure, as long as I can stay in stealth and have enough stamina to dodge around, things go well, but caught outside of that things get messy. The GF could basically stand there and withstand whatever the enemies threw at me, but the rogue sort of teeters on the knife's edge of survivability.
To be honest, though, I'd say a lot of the boss fights where things got dicey had more to do with all the adds and bosses being mez-immune than anything else...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
im a main rogue. have to say yes, my dps is boss. but i know my role. take out the big guy. as for the guy who said you were jealous, hes an idiot yes. does that mean TRs need to be nerfed? no. we are meant for one thing, killing the big guy quickly. what are GWFs useful for, add dps and semi tanking. This TR is a ****** and thats it.
and for survivability, no we do not need to be nerfed. as it stands, yes i can go toe to toe with a single target, that is because my skills allow me to neutralize the targets skill usage and ability to react to my attacks, not because of my armor or hp. if my target has help, yes they can easily take me down. its not about how op a person is. if you know their weakness they are easy to take care of. it just depends on if you know that weakness or not.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
im a main rogue. have to say yes, my dps is boss. but i know my role. take out the big guy. as for the guy who said you were jealous, hes an idiot yes. does that mean TRs need to be nerfed? no. we are meant for one thing, killing the big guy quickly. what are GWFs useful for, add dps and semi tanking. This TR is a ****** and thats it.
and for survivability, no we do not need to be nerfed. as it stands, yes i can go toe to toe with a single target, that is because my skills allow me to neutralize the targets skill usage and ability to react to my attacks, not because of my armor or hp. if my target has help, yes they can easily take me down. its not about how op a person is. if you know their weakness they are easy to take care of. it just depends on if you know that weakness or not.
Justifying a rogues ability to go "toe to toe" with a single target by saying its the skills not because of armor or hp only points out that you are dense. No one has once said anything about a rogue having too much hp or armor. Ask any class if it would sacrifice some of its armor and hp for skills and abilities that allow it to avoid taking damage altogether and also lose aggro (pve and pvp)?
I play both the OP classes rogue and cw and they do undoubtedly need tweeking and are getting it. For folks like axle here that believe that everything is fine. You are naive.
I feel bad for people who can't handle CW's. You must be really bad, rouge who is angry that there is a class that can actually kill them (if they get caught out of position), or a gwf. The only class that really has any room to complain is GWF, but they are just straight under powered. Rouges easily 2 shot cws, as do gf, and clerics make it impossible for anyone to kill people and aren't meant to 1v1. So i really don't see where all of the rage is coming from.
Chain cc? Really? I've never seen someone chained ccd in a pvp by a CW. I will admit enfeeble is op, but more so in pve. Tenebrous is a borken enchantment for all classes. Once enfeeble is nerfed, ice knife will no longer be a problem, its damage is HAMSTER unless it crits and is used on an enfeebled target. Not to mention its the easiest skill in the game to dodge.
TL;DR. Have played GF, GWF, TR, CW to 13k gs + in all pve content and tons of pvp matches. They all seem balanced besides gf block not working, slight weakness in gwf overall, and Tene's.
What I do not like in the OP's message is that we have chosen (I am CW), to play an easy class. And how should we know that ? I always play the wizard-type character in games, and the CW tooltip in Neverwinter does not read : "This class is OP and for no skill players".
the last three mmo's i have played the mage type class has been one of top dps classes.if i cared about ease of play,i would choose the magic class as my main in every mmo i start.even sin classes usually fall behind them in pve.
anyway,the thread was started because somebody trash talking.that's why i turn off chat 50% of the time when i pvp in games.
+1000. To all the naysayers and those voting against the thread, my CWs my main. I'm in glad gear, and yes I'm not capped out. Here's the problem as I see it.
TR: Who gave these guys ranged attacks anyhow (cloud of steel)? Who really thought that was a bright idea? TRs hit at range for typically what my MMs are hitting for (if not more with greater tene). So we have a rogue/assassin/sorcerer/fighter all in one shot MINUS the AC (whoopty doo!).
Additionally...stack much? I mean really, with the speed of attack you couldn't take the frontal load off a bit? This is called basic DPS physics. Faster attack means taking the front load of total burst damage down.
Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'.
CW: DoTs are just far too easy to stack up. Three encounter powers for full DoT capabilities and all of them are just easy to pop and run. Teleport much? Sure, just stack a bit more in sta/str with a half-orc build and get 5 ports in about 7 seconds. DPS suffers a tiny bit, but mobility keeps you alive. Oh and if you can't crush something to death or hold it still, just push it miles from you, rinse and repeat. I get it...control is the key word.
So agreed. This game is incredibly out of whack with balance. It turns me off to even want to try to roll a fighter class.
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t3hwh173f0xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I believe the classes are quite balanced, the CW and TR are supposed to be the top damage dealers. Being a DPS class doesn't make you OP or imbalanced. If it did then there wouldn't be any role aside from DPS and this game would become Diablo 3.
However what this game does need is new classes and more paragon paths. I love the game but I can't play it anymore because I feel so limited in how I can play. The current classes are so mundane and extremely rigid in that they are only effective when played a certain way. This makes the entire game more about predetermined staple builds rather than dynamic character customization, immersion and unique characters. IMHO Dynamic customization, immersion and being able to play the game how you want to is what makes D&D fun.
Let me know when the Scourge Warlock comes out, until then I think I'll have more fun playing D&D with pen, paper and dice
EDIT: Forgot to mention, it brings a tear to my eye uninstalling this game I hope I can return and enjoy it someday... otherwise I'll feel like an idiot for buying the Guardian Pack lol
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
- Great Weapons fighters are getting buffed in pretty much every single aspect, ability, and way.
-
GWFs are only getting buffs in the feats that the majority of the players do not use (sentinel tree). And their atwills damage is being increased but it is still weaker than every other classes atwills. The only thing that might help the GWF is the cw getting nerfed but then again I dont think it will be enough to make the class more useful than running 2 cws. So no, we are getting a middle finger and being told to sit and spin (well maybe not that bad, but certainly nothing meaningful).
TR: Who gave these guys ranged attacks anyhow (cloud of steel)? Who really thought that was a bright idea?
The developers gave use a ranged attack, obviously. You must be asking why we have it. We have a ranged attack for PvE. Leveling up a rogue without a ranged attack,would be something of a nightmare. Our AOE abilities suck and CC only gets you so far. Later on in the game when you start getting swamped by mobs, and all your high-damage skills are single-target priority, then you realize your in trouble. Now admittedly, it's partly our faults we get ate up so easily by mobs, since many rogues completely ignore defensive stats. Regardless, that's why we have the ranged attack. It's practically essential to leveling up. The skills in this game weren't designed around being fair in PvP, but let's discuss that. If I'm capturing a node and I see a CW coming, what are my options? If he targets me before popping stealth, then I'll still be visible, so that's hardly helpful. If I use my teleport skill, then I'll force myself off of the node and end the capturing mechanic. Usually, my only option is Cloud of Steel. And out in the open, if my teleport is on cooldown and a CW shows up, I might as well just let go of my mouse and accept my death. You can argue that it does too much damage or that the way certain enchantments work in PvP is broken, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a squishy melee class getting a last-ditch ranged attack.
And just wait until Rangers are released. The forums are going to explode in rage.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
You're right when it comes to PvP it's not about dps. Which is why I'd say in PvP the CW dominates because it has huge hitting powers, their teleport using very little stamina, they get a 4th encounter so they can keep anyone at bay for as long as they want.
You must be asking why we have it. We have a ranged attack for PvE.
I call BS on this one. I have a 42 alt and never need it in combat. Mobs practically teleport back to you with the way this AI works. Any ranged fights are just as easily handled. You're justifying a bad design that makes you a caster essentially. I've never seen a rogue spam this as much as they do in PvP. So...gg, try again with a fruitless argument.
Later on in the game when you start getting swamped by mobs, and all your high-damage skills are single-target priority, then you realize your in trouble.
You mean the same kind of trouble almost every GF faces except they have a blue bar that lets them mitigate that kind of fight? Oh but wait...you can pretty much wipe most mobs in about 2-4 hits, so that shouldn't be a problem. Again, justification.
I'm not even going to pick apart the rest of this poorly justified post of yours but basically you're saying you shouldn't be relegated to being just a melee class and just exemplified my previous statement.
"Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'."
Note, I put 'the best' in single quotations above because I knew I'd have to quote it again and thus had to just copy/paste it. Because of course...some TR would come on here and try to justify their overpowered class. I guess you've never played any other class because the "sweet taste of OP" is lingering in your mouth and the thought of playing anything else is abominable at this point.
OP is completely right in his assessment and the rest of us know it's true.
At least as a CW main I can admit that we have some incredibly OP abilities.
And just wait until Rangers are released. The forums are going to explode in rage.
Really? You have inside information that you're not telling us! Oh wait...you mean a ranged class that does RANGED damage. Surprise! Or...oh wait...they might dual wield? *gasp* Could it be just another rogue class? Or...wait do they get a wolf pet! Oh noes! Companions in PvP?!
Trust me...nothing would be worse than a stealth class that can silence out powers, practically two shot you and then if you DO dodge, you're just picked off with incredibly powerful ranged attack that shouldn't exist on a melee class. I've said my piece. Not even worth arguing with another TR about this. Elder Scrolls is on the horizon and at the very least you can at least skill build there and there's no excuse to being confined to a class system...
At least I got my money back on this.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
While I agree with the majority of marcavious's book above, I can only add my concern for him and his teeming anger and disdain for the trickster rogues that have cheesed#ked him with their OP. Woooosaaww broseph!
Comments
You talk about it being to "hard" for players if they removed CW/TR. It's pretty hard to do ridiculous amount of damage, gaining CC immunity and a run speed based on how much damage you take must be pretty hard too. Not to mention the stacks of armor. Seriously, you're acting like a child with your whining without even looking at the perks of your own class. A GOOD GWF would easily handle a CW.
It's not about perfect balance and if people "actually" read entire posts they would understand that. If a game has classes that are no longer viable, than it is something that needs to be addressed. If someone can't understand that.. We'll what's the point trying to explain to people like that. If you don't think 2 + 2 = 4 there is nothing I can do about it.
The PvP is far more balanced than the PvE is, so your argument isn't going to hold up. I at least can see classes being usefull in PvP when the players are good at their class.
PvE on the other hand... GWF and GF are not viable classes. Say what you want, but spend some time reading zone chat on any server no one is asking for GWF or GF for their groups unless it's a easymode dungeon.
I've been told about 100 times when I ask to join a "LF1M DPS" that they need a dps when I'm on my GWF. That my friend is a broken game.
Rogue's major at will -> duelist furry, has had it's crit severity bonus decrease from 75% to 15%, bleed proc from ticking once every sec to once every 2 sec, and on top of all that, if you are good enough to keep up the bleed all the time, it will stop ticking damage after 7 secs.
Rogues will probably no longer be #1 dps after the patch. Ranged DPS or Tanky DPS will probably be the the best DPS. All's right with the world.
Yes there are a lot of other factor involved... how you play with, against and such. I'm not the best player ever and I'm not expecting to win every combat for sure, but I still think the patch will make playing a GWF a lot more fun and less frustrating. It will also make the GWF a class more interesting to have around in a dungeon. Well, I do hope so. eheh.
PvP in it's current state, there's no concept of skill-level, just chaotic matches...which CW and TR are both the masters of.
Just remember to keep learning and have fun, that's why you're playing in the first place.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
This, its a "game" is about having fun.
indeed. too many people take it too seriously... I was slightly frustrated at pvp and dungeons but I had a lot of fun levelling to 60. I also won't lose sleep over getting steamrolled in pvp
Pretty sure all this game needs is...
ps skill cap in this game for any class is a joke
pps while there are large class imbalances, this is increased exponentially upon gear discrepancies, perhaps if cw's and tr's were only allowed to wear uncommon gear with lvl 1 enchantments.
pms there is always going to be some sort of class imbalance that someone will figure out and use to kill the 98% of bads that play this game. the bads QQ there, PE zone chat, and here... vicious cycle.. least they could do is offer more cowbell for the 0 dollars i've spent to support this game.
GF need some seriously good tanking changes too.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
As only ONE person has mentioned, this is a DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS BASED GAME, which means its really about how your party works together, therefore classes are SUPPOSED to be unbalanced
ONE class is SUPPOSED to be able to out DPS another class(ROGUE) while other classes are SUPPOSED to handle being DPSd(SWORD/SHIELD TANK) while another class is meant to control others with spells or aggro(WIZ/TANK) and another to heal(you guessed it, CLERIC)
now with that being said, a Tank should NOT be able to 1v1 a rogue, a tank is made to take hits while he is healed so he can continue to take hits! PERIOD! that is his role!
A Rogue SHOULD be scared of being outnumbered as they deal ONE ON ONE DAMAGE(hint to crying tanks w/o healers)
A Wizard has no defense, she relies heavily on AoE DPS and Singular Control as well as her party (Tank W/ healer) to keep her alive
This just leaves oour tanks, who ive read all about how they dont do DMG but not one person has gloated on their health or AC, which is of course their key feature, ability scores should be CON as priority, STR as secondary and Dex of course
as this game is new i expect there to be balance issues (just like the ACTUAL D&D SURPRISE SURPRISE) but if you build your party and role your classes properly then skill lvls are all that remain, no matter the flood you make with your tears a rogue should always be main DPS (unless competing with a hunter{Range DPS/Control}) and the best class is always druid/cleric, they take the most player skill and are the most unappreciated, and in the end DPS shouldnt count for HAMSTER UNLESS ITS ONE ON ONE, and even then control beats DPS, PVP should only exist as bonus game content and be unbalanced
i have an actual D&D char that only grapples to control a single mob at a time, he deals little to no damage, i love him, between control(of1) and aggro(all) and mass health due to a high CON score and improved toughness my allies can safely kill and my cleric is in no rush to heal me over our squishys, he is epic and takes ALOT b4 going down, but he does little DPS and cannot handle even a decent rogue without help, that being said there are mobs that will kill a little rogue while my tank stays healthy and controls the flow of battle in his favor
D&D IS NOT PVP! unless the campaign you start otherwise declares so and even then there SHOULD be more storyboard than combat
if you roll a tank and expect him to keep up with a rogue 1v1 or in DPS your an idiot, if you think a tanks health should be balanced with a rogues DPS your only barely right, let me put it this way:
a man says : i can throw a punch
another man says : i can take a hit
the first man stabs him
the point is no matter how well you can take a hit or how well your armour, a weapon thats purpose IS TO HURT YOU in the hands of one who has trained to sneakily attack you before you see it coming with deadly precision will win, IE: dagger cant stab THROUGH leather, rogue says, ok ill stab AROUND it
and now that thats said i will say that a tank SHOULD be the hardest to control or hurt!
PVPers should play real D&D first or go PVP another game IMO
BTW everything i post is IMO so save your tears k? thx hun
Yes, but in D&D Rogues specialize in taking down squishes from stealth, AKA not being able to face head on one-on-one a warrior as they can do now.
The issue is that they currently simply have too much survivability compared to their DPS.
Then don't have it, to me it's the only fun part/challenge in this game otherwise it's a standard theme park mmo w/DnD skins/names. Been there done that 50 times over now.
Keep the pve the way it is, you don't have to change that, but if you are going to have pvp in your game you either need to make parties balanced by making it so you get like a party 3 dps, 1 healer, 1 tank, but at 60 it's more like 2 TR, 2 CW and my gimped GWF who get's one shotted by the other 5 players in the match. Or you need to balance the classes to their strengths. Right now Cooldowns on rogues skills is crazy short, and just the opposite on the GWF, rogues have insane crit/damage mitigation, ability to dodge, kill from stealth, CW have crazy damage mitigation as well, the ability to keep you CC or at distance indefinitely and the ability to 1 shot as well.
To be honest, though, I'd say a lot of the boss fights where things got dicey had more to do with all the adds and bosses being mez-immune than anything else...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
and for survivability, no we do not need to be nerfed. as it stands, yes i can go toe to toe with a single target, that is because my skills allow me to neutralize the targets skill usage and ability to react to my attacks, not because of my armor or hp. if my target has help, yes they can easily take me down. its not about how op a person is. if you know their weakness they are easy to take care of. it just depends on if you know that weakness or not.
Justifying a rogues ability to go "toe to toe" with a single target by saying its the skills not because of armor or hp only points out that you are dense. No one has once said anything about a rogue having too much hp or armor. Ask any class if it would sacrifice some of its armor and hp for skills and abilities that allow it to avoid taking damage altogether and also lose aggro (pve and pvp)?
I play both the OP classes rogue and cw and they do undoubtedly need tweeking and are getting it. For folks like axle here that believe that everything is fine. You are naive.
Chain cc? Really? I've never seen someone chained ccd in a pvp by a CW. I will admit enfeeble is op, but more so in pve. Tenebrous is a borken enchantment for all classes. Once enfeeble is nerfed, ice knife will no longer be a problem, its damage is HAMSTER unless it crits and is used on an enfeebled target. Not to mention its the easiest skill in the game to dodge.
You sound butthurt
the last three mmo's i have played the mage type class has been one of top dps classes.if i cared about ease of play,i would choose the magic class as my main in every mmo i start.even sin classes usually fall behind them in pve.
anyway,the thread was started because somebody trash talking.that's why i turn off chat 50% of the time when i pvp in games.
TR: Who gave these guys ranged attacks anyhow (cloud of steel)? Who really thought that was a bright idea? TRs hit at range for typically what my MMs are hitting for (if not more with greater tene). So we have a rogue/assassin/sorcerer/fighter all in one shot MINUS the AC (whoopty doo!).
Additionally...stack much? I mean really, with the speed of attack you couldn't take the frontal load off a bit? This is called basic DPS physics. Faster attack means taking the front load of total burst damage down.
Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'.
CW: DoTs are just far too easy to stack up. Three encounter powers for full DoT capabilities and all of them are just easy to pop and run. Teleport much? Sure, just stack a bit more in sta/str with a half-orc build and get 5 ports in about 7 seconds. DPS suffers a tiny bit, but mobility keeps you alive. Oh and if you can't crush something to death or hold it still, just push it miles from you, rinse and repeat. I get it...control is the key word.
So agreed. This game is incredibly out of whack with balance. It turns me off to even want to try to roll a fighter class.
However what this game does need is new classes and more paragon paths. I love the game but I can't play it anymore because I feel so limited in how I can play. The current classes are so mundane and extremely rigid in that they are only effective when played a certain way. This makes the entire game more about predetermined staple builds rather than dynamic character customization, immersion and unique characters. IMHO Dynamic customization, immersion and being able to play the game how you want to is what makes D&D fun.
Let me know when the Scourge Warlock comes out, until then I think I'll have more fun playing D&D with pen, paper and dice
EDIT: Forgot to mention, it brings a tear to my eye uninstalling this game
The developers gave use a ranged attack, obviously. You must be asking why we have it. We have a ranged attack for PvE. Leveling up a rogue without a ranged attack,would be something of a nightmare. Our AOE abilities suck and CC only gets you so far. Later on in the game when you start getting swamped by mobs, and all your high-damage skills are single-target priority, then you realize your in trouble. Now admittedly, it's partly our faults we get ate up so easily by mobs, since many rogues completely ignore defensive stats. Regardless, that's why we have the ranged attack. It's practically essential to leveling up. The skills in this game weren't designed around being fair in PvP, but let's discuss that. If I'm capturing a node and I see a CW coming, what are my options? If he targets me before popping stealth, then I'll still be visible, so that's hardly helpful. If I use my teleport skill, then I'll force myself off of the node and end the capturing mechanic. Usually, my only option is Cloud of Steel. And out in the open, if my teleport is on cooldown and a CW shows up, I might as well just let go of my mouse and accept my death. You can argue that it does too much damage or that the way certain enchantments work in PvP is broken, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a squishy melee class getting a last-ditch ranged attack.
And just wait until Rangers are released. The forums are going to explode in rage.
I call BS on this one. I have a 42 alt and never need it in combat. Mobs practically teleport back to you with the way this AI works. Any ranged fights are just as easily handled. You're justifying a bad design that makes you a caster essentially. I've never seen a rogue spam this as much as they do in PvP. So...gg, try again with a fruitless argument.
Melee class with dodge needs to be a melee class with dodge. Justification again.
So now you want major AoE properties and CC? Asking for more than you already have caster/melee class? Greedy.
You mean the same kind of trouble almost every GF faces except they have a blue bar that lets them mitigate that kind of fight? Oh but wait...you can pretty much wipe most mobs in about 2-4 hits, so that shouldn't be a problem. Again, justification.
I'm not even going to pick apart the rest of this poorly justified post of yours but basically you're saying you shouldn't be relegated to being just a melee class and just exemplified my previous statement.
"Give it up TRs, you know you're OP and will never admit it because it feels great to be 'the best'."
Note, I put 'the best' in single quotations above because I knew I'd have to quote it again and thus had to just copy/paste it. Because of course...some TR would come on here and try to justify their overpowered class. I guess you've never played any other class because the "sweet taste of OP" is lingering in your mouth and the thought of playing anything else is abominable at this point.
OP is completely right in his assessment and the rest of us know it's true.
At least as a CW main I can admit that we have some incredibly OP abilities.
Really? You have inside information that you're not telling us! Oh wait...you mean a ranged class that does RANGED damage. Surprise! Or...oh wait...they might dual wield? *gasp* Could it be just another rogue class? Or...wait do they get a wolf pet! Oh noes! Companions in PvP?!
Trust me...nothing would be worse than a stealth class that can silence out powers, practically two shot you and then if you DO dodge, you're just picked off with incredibly powerful ranged attack that shouldn't exist on a melee class. I've said my piece. Not even worth arguing with another TR about this. Elder Scrolls is on the horizon and at the very least you can at least skill build there and there's no excuse to being confined to a class system...
At least I got my money back on this.