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What is the main dps class?
furion192
Member Posts: 187 Bounty Hunter
Can someone tell me what is the main dps class? Sometimes I don't understand why some people complains why TR can kill them easily or fast and they deal so much damage. And the devs nerf the damage of their skills especially the SE and duelist flurry. I understand SE is OP because it can 1 shot u if it crits, but why nerf duelist flurry? And people complains about TR's OP damage. We all know that each class has its own role so what is the main dps class in these game is it CW, GWF or TR? Obviously its TR, but people complains about their damage then what class you want to deal the highest damage it cant be all because there must be a class which deals damage the most but squishy. Hopefully the TR doesn't get more nerf in the future because if they keep on decreasing its damage then what will be the role of TR in PvE? From my observation the main dps class in mmorpg is always called the OP class. I usually play wizards in all rpg games and these time I tried to play rogue if main dps class are rly op, but I don't think they're because they're rly meant to deal high single burst damage so its natural if it can kill opponents in pvp easily. And they have been nerf many times and people aren't still satisfied. If they keep on nerfing TR's damage then at least increase their survivability. We do have stealth and Impossible to catch, but we have to wait for the CD of stealth and note that everytime we are hit the stealth meter decreases which makes it impossible to use when being chase. So the only thing we have to escape is ITC and roll.
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Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
if you read carefully on power skill and feat effect, there is a way to make stealth last longer than expected, some already done that. I dont know if this is got the nerf too or not, cause if it does, means TR will suffer more than it used to be
lol
Seriously, why are you including the gwf in your list? Maybe you're deceived by the name. gwf has no DPS, either in PvE or in PvP. Typically in PvP you will hit for 150 and get DOT-ed for 7k. And the 150, that's when you can hit at all.
They say there is an incoming patch for balance but after looking at it, there is nothing that will improve the issue, gwf will remain a cannon fodder, guaranteeing the fail in dungeons and the loss in Domination.
Sure they're a DPS class, but their damage needs to be more bursty, and not consistent. They should never be able to outperform the other DPS classes or builds, since their ability to punish mistakes is so great.
Top damage should definitely be GWF, they have no range(other than a gapcloser), and basically have to be in the middle of a battle. They also have less CC than a GF. I'd put a DPS spec'd GF next(melee fighter again, with no mobility), then CW and TR on even footing, then DC. If I were to make changes to a TR, i'd give their encounters *more* damage, increase the cooldown times by a ton, decrease their survival, and add cc and cc-break options. TR should be a highly skill based class, where a mistake in either direction can have disastrous results. Nothing makes me facepalm more than going to the mid of a map and watching 5 TR's duking it out in the open.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
The only thing wrong about PvP atm is that there needs to be a balance of roles. There should never be PvP dominations with 3 clerics in one team, for example. I've seen this happen, and they were helpless when it came to attacking nodes since they needed to stick together. No one bothered to attack them head-on since capping other nodes was easier.
The GWF is like going into a battle with a twig, and when you go into your unstoppable aka rage, the twig becomes a wet breadstick but moves faster. Since when, in any game or real life, do you get bigger, and become "unstoppable" but not hit harder? The best use of a GWF is to steal a last hit via swinging faster, or use unstoppable to run so they cant disable you. Other than those 2 options its best to just run around looking scary while the rogue kills everything for you and dont bother healing them, just heal the rogue.
I know thats a lot of ranting but the game is really that off balanced right now. Its like going back in time to the Renaissance with a tank and looking for a fair fight.
Yes, GWF dps is currently pretty bad and cc are rares, but this class has the best mobility of any others. So make their dps becoming huge and you'll get the new op class for sure.
People always whining about GWF dps since I've begun playing this game, having reached lvl 60 did not prevent me from having highly frequently 4-0 to 8-3 ratios, even when facing TR or CW teams.
So yes for better dps for GWF, for fixing bugs on key skills, but TR NEEDS to stay at top DPS class, and from far. Yet I do agree TR needs to become more squishy, as facing a GWF and never become stealthy nor using anything much but the bomb is unacceptable. Not to mention TR being able to tank in PvE thus filling the GWF role is unacceptable as well.
also pvp classes are balanced because all of them can get to that sweetspot where they can just kill any opponent fast (except the cleric but that's just natural).
dps specced GF are monsters in pvp and only somewhat fear CW if they get the head start.
CW can twoshot pretty much anyone with ray of enfeeblement and whatever else (not to mention while ray-ed you'll deal almost no damage) but can die to a rogue they didn't see coming a GF that gets a stunlock or a GWF that has it's encounter rotation ready.
TR can make short work of any class if they get the surprise factor but once they are out of stealth/ItC they are as good as dead against any non-dumb other class.
GWF is a bit less comeptitive but if properly geared flourish->takedown->indomitable battlestrike is a combo that leaves no room for reactions and have the most spammable CC resist of the bunch and best mobility.
It's all about being properly geared really, it sucks if you aren't but that's just how MMO's work. (and of course knowing how not to suck)
So GWF should have top damage, even though it's an AOE class and an off-tank? And the class with all the single-target priority skills should be...below the main tank in damage output. Brilliant. You should definitely go into MMO design. You sound like an expert. Just for a laugh, please explain to me what the rogue's purpose in PvE dungeons would be under your design. I'm curious what a low-damage, burst-based squishy melee class with single-target priority skills would actually contribute to this game's style of dungeon play. Since that is the main priority of the game, and not PvP.
Next time you right a wall of text take an extra 20 seconds and make them into readable paragraphs.
Yes GWF should be the primary #1 DPS class in a mob heavy environment. Once they release a ranged striker class then we can revisit this topic.
TR should be #1 in single target.
CW should be 3rd or lower since the class is CONTROL.
Until all classes and races have been released the list will be in constant flux and as such provide great entertainment for thread reading when I am at work.
Yes, I agree with this. The problem is people have issues with fighters being less than impressive in PvP, when it only makes sense that aoe dps classes wouldn't shine in 1v1 fights. But what they do have is great defense, stuns, and the ability to fling people off of nodes. This is far more important in terms of points than just killing people.
to have balanced pvp you have to balance around 1v1. every class needs a counter. its rock, paper, scissors... TR should have the advantage over CW, CW should have the advantage over GF or GWF, and GF or GWF should have the advantage over TR. right now TR has no counter.
You have never played D&D.
You would never win as (insert any class) against a high level wizard (with a full spell book). You better pray they spent all the spells and has not had time to take a nap.(Relearn spells)
Guardians likewise have many AoE abilities when DPS-specced.
As he said: single-target damage and CC. Preferably with high burst cababilities, to lock down and beat up the elites while the AoE classes take out the trash.
There aren't that many packs in group content that are composed purely of trash: most have at least a few casters/dangerous/high health mobs mixed in. These are generally the ones that telegraph dangerous attacks rewarding the Rogue's ability to avoid them completely rather the more tanky method of just mitigating all the hits.
How is this relevant in an MMO, where balance in more important and flexibility is more limited?
Making a point.
Nothing is fair or balanced in regards to class skills/spells.
There will ALWAYS be someone better than you REGARDLESS of class. That is the balance. Class means nothing in MMOs.
I completely misunderstood what you guys mean by "top dps", so yeah, I agree with all this.
Uh no. GWFs are not strikers. GWFs have tanky abilities instead of control. They are hybrids just like CWs so there damage should not be any higher. You GWFs need to stop fooling yourselves into thinking you are a primary damaging class (ie strikers). You are not and therefore should be doing no more damage than any other non-striker.
I agree, it's also pretty stupid to see some of them hitting 3~5k/hit with their ranged at will. Issue is people are mistaking TR for an assassin, which has already been stated the class is not meant to be one. So there is no excuse for the class to have this advantage over the others.
I think the main problem is the type of people who play fighters/warriors in MMOs think they should have the highest everything. Armor, hps, damage. And if they don't the forums are filled with this garbage. Make rogues squishier? Are you kidding me? They have the second lowest hps of all the classes AND have the second lowest mitigations/armor of all the classes. Are you saying they should have less hps and armor than the robe wearing mage? Do you even run t2s at all as a rogue? One wrong move and you are 100-0% instantly. They are a melee class, they should NOT have the defenses of a ranged class. This is the completely blind, knee-jerk response that has become so common with players.....'Nerf everything because I prefer the fighter class!'
And this whole 'trying to balance PvP in a PvE game' needs to stop. This is not GW2. This is a PvE focused MMO. As the only striker class in the game, the TR should outdamage everyone.
Wrong. The rogues in 4e can use a ranged or melee attack with any encounter/daily they have. They just decided not to do it like that here because they would become mainly ranged at end game. And show me where it was 'stated' that the class was not supposed to be an assassin. Show me one dev response/post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)
Rogues are deadly but somewhat vulnerable physical combatants. Their combat abilities are similar to those of the monk or the cleric, but they have relatively low Hit Points (1d6 per level) and are proficient only with fairly low-damage weapons.
Rogues are not typically intended to act as front-line soldiers, but are instead meant to flank enemies. There they use their unique abilities to inflict great injury to the enemy. A well built rogue is capable of surpassing many other classes in terms of melee-damage, when the rogue is able to gain a special advantage over a target.
^ This is what i'd like to see. Apply poisons or venom in stealth, and burst someone down before their team notices, and vanish without a trace. Not facetanking a GWF at mid, or outdamaging someone by shooting daggers from stealth.
Balance is VERY important to a games ecosystem. I'm not talking about a nerf, just a restructuring. The rogues success and failure should hinge on a knife's edge(pun intended).
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
How does the rogue not in Neverwinter not mesh with that description? The rogue in this game is all about gaining special advantage. The throwing knives occur from stealth. The rogues at mid are able to fight off GWF because they used Dazing Strike or Smoke Bomb to gain a special advantage. The idea that rogues are just waltzing mid, shaking off damage and killing tanks with Sky Flourish is a myth. There's always a million factors going on in the PvP, and you're not looking at the broad picture. There's usually always something going on that's allowing the rogue to do what he's doing. Otherwise he'd just be dead, because he's made of paper.
The rogue should do a massive amount of burst damage in the beginning of the fight, capable of taking down squishies very quickly, or hurting melee champs. However beyond that they should have comparable dps to a guardian fighter, coasting off of their burst. They are suppose to be a squishie anti squishie, hince the stealth and ability selection. However they burst, then remain top dps by far and tank along the way no problem.
All other classes build up something, like guard, divine power, arcane power. They grow stronger by fighting. The rogue starts strong but gets weaker the longer she fights, escpacially if she takes damage. Damage reduce the stealth meter and stealth is only refreshed by time or by trade your burst encounter powers for low or no-damage utilty powers.
What is the purpose of an squishie anti squishie when all squishie itself are supposed only kill other squishies? Do you propose that rogues should focus on CWs because that is the only other "squishies" class. Unfortunately, having no CC like GF and GWF the rogue is not suitable to hunt down CWs. CWs more or less hunt down rogues, because they are ... yeah .. squishies.
Can't balance PvP around 1v1. All PvP in this game is team based. However, if you want a balanced team, then you need to do a premade.
I'll agree with this if CW's get plate. Since that won't happen, a CW should do more DPS than a GWF.