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Astral Shield has been completely destroyed

zarchoszarchos Member Posts: 47
edited June 2013 in The Temple
Just a FOREWARNING Astral shield has been completely destroyed on the Preview/Test server go have a look for yourself and take a look at it's duration, it's really just abysmal now.
Post edited by zarchos on
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Comments

  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    With it goes the cleric. Astral Shield has been the only saving grace of the cleric as a healer/damage reducer. Bastion of Health is complete trash with an 18 second CD. Healing Word is garbage for keeping people alive (no recovery effect kills it. Sun Burst isn't saving anyone. Forgemaster's is good but you aren't keeping anyone alive with it alone because of the low up-time on it.

    Whether people realize it, o want to admit it, Astral Shield is the ONLY thing that is keeping the cleric from being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at their role in a group. If you don't believe me go do the last boss of Temple of the Spider without Astral Shield (assuming you get there in the first place). Those blade masters will shred your entire group apart between CW CC and you can't heal through it even if you wanted to. You NEED that damage reduction from AS.


    Note: I am happy about the AS stacking nerf though.
  • hyttehanshyttehans Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 61
    edited June 2013
    I will have to agree, solohealing is challenging enough as it is, double astral shield is too powerful, but further nerfing it is too much, clerics is rare as it is, doing this will just retire (me) yet another cleric, dungeons are supposed to be hard but fun, this would take the fun out of it for me at least as a healer, there is a point where every mmo developer, should listen to its playerbase (that time is now).
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    has a 10 second duration now.

    so about 66-70% up time, with the usual cooldown from recovery.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I'll be testing a bunch of things on the preview shard (probably tomorrow at this point), but honestly, without 100% uptime on shield, and with righteousness - I'm getting really close to just being done. If Gauntlgrym dungeons are just more "throw 100 adds at you," I'm definitely done.

    It would be nice if there was a dev that actually played a cleric, and knew how they worked, wouldn't it?
  • prophaelprophael Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    I'm getting really close to just being done. If Gauntlgrym dungeons are just more "throw 100 adds at you," I'm definitely done.

    I feel ya. At least I have a guardian fighter I can play, but these changes are likely to make clerics go extinct.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I have a rogue and a CW, but cleric is what I want to play. No point playing this game at all, or giving it any money, if I can't play the class I love.
  • prophaelprophael Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    I have a rogue and a CW, but cleric is what I want to play. No point playing this game at all, or giving it any money, if I can't play the class I love.

    Fair enough. I had high hopes for this update. I feel VERY let down.
  • chonir01chonir01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 141 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I just dont get the direction they are trying to go in.

    Nerf AS stacking. Ok fine. Thats sending the message that they dont want people running 2DC and standing in all the bad. Kewl I can deal since I like to solo heal anyway.

    Nerf the duration on AS to 66% uptime. Thats sending the message that they want us to run 2DC to maintain AS uptime. WTF?

    It like two different Devs were told to address the AS stacking issue, once came up with *no stacking* to counter 2DC, the other came up with *reduce the uptime*. Both would have worked as a counter to 2DC alone, although the uptime redux would have suited 2DC groups better. The memo's passed back were BOTH put in the patch notes. Just seems like over kill to me.

    Stop the stacking seems to be the best option. People that wanna run 2DC will just have a wide area to work with (Over lapping circles) and people who wanna solo heal will have to bring thier A game to the table. The duration nerf + Stack nerf seems to be just too much, if it was intended as a way to counter 2DC it wont work .. now people will feel they HAVE to take 2DC to maintain AS uptime ... /boggle
  • hashyjoehashyjoe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Remember, these are going onto Preview Shard. Let us hope that it is realized that only one is needed. I hope they give us back 100%, and make it so that you only need 1dc a group. Makes it so that group has to coordinate to fit in the circle if they want to live.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nixwanixwa Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    chonir01 wrote: »
    I just dont get the direction they are trying to go in.

    Nerf AS stacking. Ok fine. Thats sending the message that they dont want people running 2DC and standing in all the bad. Kewl I can deal since I like to solo heal anyway.

    Nerf the duration on AS to 66% uptime. Thats sending the message that they want us to run 2DC to maintain AS uptime. WTF?

    It like two different Devs were told to address the AS stacking issue, once came up with *no stacking* to counter 2DC, the other came up with *reduce the uptime*. Both would have worked as a counter to 2DC alone, although the uptime redux would have suited 2DC groups better. The memo's passed back were BOTH put in the patch notes. Just seems like over kill to me.

    Stop the stacking seems to be the best option. People that wanna run 2DC will just have a wide area to work with (Over lapping circles) and people who wanna solo heal will have to bring thier A game to the table. The duration nerf + Stack nerf seems to be just too much, if it was intended as a way to counter 2DC it wont work .. now people will feel they HAVE to take 2DC to maintain AS uptime ... /boggle

    It really feels like an attempt to enforce a 2 CW meta instead, in all honesty. If you can't have uptime of your shield/healing ability constantly, then the alternative is to constantly have control of the ludicrous number of mobs.
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    I'll be testing a bunch of things on the preview shard (probably tomorrow at this point), but honestly, without 100% uptime on shield, and with righteousness - I'm getting really close to just being done. If Gauntlgrym dungeons are just more "throw 100 adds at you," I'm definitely done.

    It would be nice if there was a dev that actually played a cleric, and knew how they worked, wouldn't it?

    I can confirm that Righteousness still doesn't affect Shield and Forgemaster, so there's that.

    Personally I wish they would just destroy the **** ability, Astral Shield is just too good or mandatory.

    There's just too much passivity and no customization when it comes to Cleric in this game.

    You pretty much HAVE to use shield and sunburst, and hallowed ground, and the same feat build, and astral seal etc.

    And it's all basically passive healing and dmg reduction. Same goes for Cleanse and even our threat reduction, completely passive, the new Cleanse is terrible with a 20 second cooldown.

    Considering it's an action rpg they need to make everything the cleric does more ACTIVE. Instead you just put everything on cooldown and run around in circles while the game does it's job for you.
  • oghieroghier Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 84
    edited June 2013
    Guardrail to guardrail balancing.
    - Snit (Cleric, Dragon Server)
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I would suggest that everyone that actually dislikes the change, to give them in game feedback on the test shard. I think I've made around 13 or more suggestion and highlighted actual skills that need to be fixed, as they did not really bother fixing broken skills such as healing words static 15s cooldown, the issue with bastion healths excessive cool down, forge masters and astral not being effected by -40% and so on.

    Find it rather strange how they've gone about "fixing" the cleric issues, I am glad they've stopped the stacking, and I am glad they are actively looking at solving threat. (Threat is much better in groups!)

    I wouldn't even mind astral shield having a large period of down time in all honesty, as long as they give us the tools to actually support our group in terms of keeping them alive. Buffing our healing skills would be a good start, fixing our feats to better support our "leader" role. Rather than such changes as making cleanse a 1/3 feat with silly over the top cool downs, it may as well be a 1/1 trait at this point and remove the +1 divine pip, and be replaced with something that is actually worth 3/3, perhaps it could be Healing skills cool downs are reduced by 10/15/20%.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Preliminary testing: AS still cannot crit, even though it's now classified as a "heal over time," not a regen effect. If it's a HoT, then make it crit - I'm just astounded at the ineptitude of the developers of this game to not realize critical class issues.

    I'll run some dungeons with guildies on the test shard over the weekend, expect me to come back and rant.

    Threat wasn't even an issue for me on live shards. I never slotted Sooth. If you pug a lot, then I guess it's a fix. My static GF and CW do such a good job of keeping adds off of me, it's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're fixing it for people that pug, but really, they're making way too many negative changes/ignoring the things that need to be fixed.
  • uncannyluckuncannyluck Member Posts: 50
    edited June 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    Preliminary testing: AS still cannot crit, even though it's now classified as a "heal over time," not a regen effect. If it's a HoT, then make it crit - I'm just astounded at the ineptitude of the developers of this game to not realize critical class issues.

    I'll run some dungeons with guildies on the test shard over the weekend, expect me to come back and rant.

    Threat wasn't even an issue for me on live shards. I never slotted Sooth. If you pug a lot, then I guess it's a fix. My static GF and CW do such a good job of keeping adds off of me, it's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're fixing it for people that pug, but really, they're making way too many negative changes/ignoring the things that need to be fixed.

    Have you had a chance to test threat? Mobs seem to completely ignore me until I do something.

    EDIT: Disregard that.
  • arlacharlach Member Posts: 46
    edited June 2013
    Astral shield nerf to 10 sec, and becomes a HoT instead of regen so it's now affected by righteousness?
    It seems like they're mandating that we take double clerics into dungeons.

    Why have the cooldowns for skills like bastion of health not been halved at least?

    Don't even get me started on cleanse... might as well just afk at campfire in pvp now.

    If those changes really are implemented, time to quit cleric. Then there'll be more threads on "where are all the clerics?".

    I think any feedback should be posted on the "General" section of the forum, seeing as I've never seen a dev/mod post in this section, so it's kind of safe to assume they don't read anything posted here (if they did, they'd have fixed righteousness by now).
  • warsirenwarsiren Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Sounds like a lot of first day Hyperbole, man if I had a dime for everytime an MMO forced us to change our playstyle or think differently and people cried foul, I'd be super rich.

    Regardless, I think we need more than a few hours of testing and build making before we all go "Chicken Little" here. Yes the old AS Build is dead, but it sounds like Linked Spirit is insane now. I think they are trying to push us away from using AS as a crutch to see what we can come up with. Personally I'm not throwing in the towel on the class, I like it. I'll rough the storm out we are the only healers in the game atm, so either we'll find a way to make it work or they'll hot fix us, or swap it before it goes live.

    Regardless, I still think we need to do more testing before we start throwing hissy fits, reserve those for after a few days of testing, and Constructive Feedback.
    Thori-Siggy-2_zps2ccf70bd.png
  • solsticexisolsticexi Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm not even 60 yet and i actually was really looking forward to trying out astral shield but after reading the balance patch notes...<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> really.

    40 dungeons are already giving me hell due to crazy aggro and lack of healing capabilities(Low up-time on FF, healing words just gives me tons of aggro)...i was just whining the other day of how i wish i had astral shield now since its probably only thing thats keeping Clerics PLAYABLE...dafuq.

    Worst of all, They could at least BUFF up the other skills more in order to compensate the loss from Astral shield since we were relying on it a lot but noooo....its just MORE NERFs...

    P.S sorry for my rant...just needed to get it out of my system.
  • maukadwellermaukadweller Member Posts: 71
    edited June 2013
    warsiren wrote: »
    Sounds like a lot of first day Hyperbole, man if I had a dime for everytime an MMO forced us to change our playstyle or think differently and people cried foul, I'd be super rich.

    Regardless, I think we need more than a few hours of testing and build making before we all go "Chicken Little" here. Yes the old AS Build is dead, but it sounds like Linked Spirit is insane now. I think they are trying to push us away from using AS as a crutch to see what we can come up with. Personally I'm not throwing in the towel on the class, I like it. I'll rough the storm out we are the only healers in the game atm, so either we'll find a way to make it work or they'll hot fix us, or swap it before it goes live.

    Regardless, I still think we need to do more testing before we start throwing hissy fits, reserve those for after a few days of testing, and Constructive Feedback.

    Will more testing change the AS duration from ~10 seconds back to 20 seconds or even 15 seconds?
    Can you honestly say that the cleric is NOT on net significantly weaker with these changes, particularly in PvP?

    I don't need a few more days of testing to answer those questions.
  • hashyjoehashyjoe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    As it has been said in other threads, PWE won't nerf cleric healing too low. We are the only healers, so they have to keep our healing in line with boss/add performance.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • solsticexisolsticexi Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So what are our options now that Astral shield is most likely gone...Will AS still be considered for usage in our skillbars?

    I'm worried now and need encouragement to hit 60..
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    You'll still use AS, trust me. We're just going to have to find a way to supplement healing/DR during the downtime. There's several builds I plan on testing this weekend, have no fear!
  • hashyjoehashyjoe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    These notes have only just been announced, not even implemented. AS is going to be a big part, cyclically. We are going to have to use other means for heals outside of that duration, as well as other means of DR.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • yuinojiyuinoji Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    There's several builds I plan on testing this weekend, have no fear!

    just share us the build after that LOL
  • rangurenranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    With it goes the cleric. Astral Shield has been the only saving grace of the cleric as a healer/damage reducer. Bastion of Health is complete trash with an 18 second CD. Healing Word is garbage for keeping people alive (no recovery effect kills it. Sun Burst isn't saving anyone. Forgemaster's is good but you aren't keeping anyone alive with it alone because of the low up-time on it.

    Whether people realize it, o want to admit it, Astral Shield is the ONLY thing that is keeping the cleric from being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at their role in a group. If you don't believe me go do the last boss of Temple of the Spider without Astral Shield (assuming you get there in the first place). Those blade masters will shred your entire group apart between CW CC and you can't heal through it even if you wanted to. You NEED that damage reduction from AS.


    Note: I am happy about the AS stacking nerf though.

    I agree with you, with decrease time in AS combine cleanse only 20 sec per debuff I think adds in most dungeons need to be reduced too or devs is forgot that most adds attack in most dungeon are fill with debuff
  • tursiotursio Member Posts: 69
    edited June 2013
    Now that GFs and GWFs are getting buffed to be able to actually do their jobs (hopefully), having 100% uptime on AS would be broken overpowered.

    AS was already broken overpowered anyway (its overpoweredness was just the only thing allowing us to actually do our jobs in the face of all of the other broken-in-a-bad-way class mechanics and threat).

    I welcome AS not having 100% uptime. It puts more questions of tactical timing into the ability and puts some of the burden of the party's survival back onto people other than the cleric(s) and the CW(s).
  • arlacharlach Member Posts: 46
    edited June 2013
    Options?
    Well..... sunburst is still there, doesn't heal very much although it's quite spammable.
    If your party is dying because AS is on cd (which will now be 33% of the time), sunburst won't cover it.

    Bastion of health has a ridiculous cd (double of sunburst), so that won't cover it either. This heal is your only other reliable AOE heal, along with sunburst. (and the AOE is huge, which will reliably cover all your party members).

    Healing word? Really hard to target!

    Forgemasters flame, requires targets to be standing beside the mob you cast it on. Also, when throwing it into a stack of mobs, it's near impossible to choose which one you throw it onto, and if the one you throw it onto dies quickly, there goes the heals =)

    Astral seal? Running around in circles nonstop, you'd rather use the rare opportunity you get to cast something to throw out sunburst, since that at least gives you some heal (and nets excellent AP gain). Also, for you to gain healing, you'd have to hit the mob after with brand of the sun. That's 2 hits on mob, and in that time you'd likely to have died assuming astral shield ran out and is on cooldown. Still, it's possible to preemptively seal + brand as many mobs as you can before AS runs out.

    On top of all that..... you still have the -40% self heal, and that -40% self heal now extends to include that from Astral shield (because now it's a heal over time as opposed to regeneration), which it didn't before.

    Go figure.

    There might be a distinct possibility that there are possible builds not using astral shield, but more testing needed. Main problem is the super long cd on bastion of health.
  • rangurenranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    I think the only way to counter the nerf is put almighty point to Recovery. no power no defense, though I still doubt it will working as planned.

    PS: this is why I hate "balancing" class only take PvP basis without considering the PvE side
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    ranguren wrote: »
    I think the only way to counter the nerf is put almighty point to Recovery. no power no defense, though I still doubt it will working as planned.

    No.

    The absolute lowest CD you will ever get on Astral Shield is 12 seconds, but that would require ALL rank 10 silvery and I'm not even sure that would get you 12 seconds.

    7,951 recovery = 31.5%
    21 Int = 11% (campfire needed)
    24 Cha = 14% (campfire needed)
    Total = 56.5% = 12.7 second CD on AS

    You won't ever get it much lower than that.
  • rangurenranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    No.

    The absolute lowest CD you will ever get on Astral Shield is 12 seconds, but that would require ALL rank 10 silvery and I'm not even sure that would get you 12 seconds.

    7,951 recovery = 31.5%
    21 Int = 11% (campfire needed)
    24 Cha = 14% (campfire needed)
    Total = 56.5% = 12.7 second CD on AS

    You won't ever get it much lower than that.

    i see, plus with no power the healing power which counted as HoT is at lowest too. it more and more like pushing the cleric to become a DoT striker rather than healer support :(
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