Beat the rogue by about 25%. It was 3 clerics, myself and the rogue. I had highest damage taken and highest damage and most enemies slain. This build is amazing. I like using Not so Fast, Come and Get it then IBS for 12-15k swings. IBS has great AP generation so slam has great up-time. I can't wait to use IBS on a singularity stack!
I've been using Roar instead of Come and Get it... What are your thoughts between the 2?
Come and get it stacks the enemies = faster killing. Roar is nice but the knockback screws our DPS up-time. You don't need the extra determination IMO.
I just did epic pirate for the first time on my GWF and lost to the rogue by 200k (5.1 to my 4.9, wizard was 3.6 or something) in a dungeon with less knocking off ledges and more killing of trash I would have won. My gearscore is still only 8.9k so It's not like I'm running in uber gear either. I also am still not quite optimizing my damage to it's full extent. As I play more and get better at the GWF I can see that I'll be topping charts.
This is so much more fun to play than my cleric. My buddies are all gonna be pissed that I'm not healing very often anymore.
I've been using Roar instead of Come and Get it... What are your thoughts between the 2?
Roar's AoE pretty much ensures that it's only useful when a CW has their Arcane Singularity going. It is far too narrow of an AoE, and often times you would have done more damage even using Flourish on a single-target. The knockback is also a problem for me, since the GWF does better with packed groups of add's than spread out enemies.
Still, Roar has it's place. I'm a Destroyer though, so Reaping Strike is really all I need for Determination gain. Come and Get It paired with IBS is more reliable AoE than Roar IMO and does more damage.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Whats with all these I beat xx rogue posts, theirs a huge different between a good rogue and a bad rogue, good rogues are simply impossibe to outdamage in anything by end of dungeon (except by like a wiz in castle never).
As for roar / come and get it..... why is everyone forgeting the best one which is challenging shout? - boost parties damage check, gain determination check, become more tanky which can help sometimes check.
I run challenging, not so fast and indominatable battle strike. greater plaguefire + our trait = 90% armor reducion, not so fast gives on demand full combat advantage and challanging also gives a party damage boost. Our damage is not the best and the quicker ppl realise that right now the better, boost your party while still doing fairly good damage!.
But then... i dont pug....
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
So after reading the posts by: karandordaoc and spacejew
I took the dive and tried Come and Get It... **** I've been missing out. Like majorly.
I had been using Roar in that slot (along with the staples of Not So Fast and IBS). While Roar's action point generation was effing sweet, I will readily admit the pushing away of mobs was usually less then useful for me. After 24 hours of running multiple dungeons, some Foundries, etc. Come and Get It is an allstar IMO. So consider me converted...
Now I'd like to ask: sacredchaos, about his statement that Challenging Shout is better then Come and Get it. What are the exact benefits (numbers wise) that Challenging Shout gives out to the group? Just curious if I should test it out and such... Anyone else have any insight into Challenging Shout vs. Come and Get It?
So after reading the posts by: karandordaoc and spacejew
I took the dive and tried Come and Get It... **** I've been missing out. Like majorly.
I had been using Roar in that slot (along with the staples of Not So Fast and IBS). While Roar's action point generation was effing sweet, I will readily admit the pushing away of mobs was usually less then useful for me. After 24 hours of running multiple dungeons, some Foundries, etc. Come and Get It is an allstar IMO. So consider me converted...
Now I'd like to ask: sacredchaos, about his statement that Challenging Shout is better then Come and Get it. What are the exact benefits (numbers wise) that Challenging Shout gives out to the group? Just curious if I should test it out and such... Anyone else have any insight into Challenging Shout vs. Come and Get It?
I'm still drawing a blank on what exactly he means by Challenging Shout. It's possible he's talking about Daring Shout juding from what he says the effects are. If that's the case, Daring Shout does pop Unstoppable by itself on large groups but without Deflection and higher Defense ratings it falls short as a damage resistance buff if you're shooting for a DPS build. I mean, it's still useful to have it, but not in the majority of fights. If you don't PUG, I don't think you would ever really need it if you've got a decent team.
I can't tell you how big the defense bonus from Daring Shout is, it is noticeable, but it just doesn't save you as well as it could. I really think it's just because I don't have any Deflection in my stats. A Sentinel spec would want to use Daring Shout to place their marks and increase their survivability, but for an Instigator or Destroyer it just doesn't perform very well. Or at least not as well as I feel it should.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'm still drawing a blank on what exactly he means by Challenging Shout. It's possible he's talking about Daring Shout juding from what he says the effects are. If that's the case, Daring Shout does pop Unstoppable by itself on large groups but without Deflection and higher Defense ratings it falls short as a damage resistance buff if you're shooting for a DPS build. I mean, it's still useful to have it, but not in the majority of fights. If you don't PUG, I don't think you would ever really need it if you've got a decent team.
I can't tell you how big the defense bonus from Daring Shout is, it is noticeable, but it just doesn't save you as well as it could. I really think it's just because I don't have any Deflection in my stats. A Sentinel spec would want to use Daring Shout to place their marks and increase their survivability, but for an Instigator or Destroyer it just doesn't perform very well. Or at least not as well as I feel it should.
Ye daring shout, ive not played for a few days waiting for content. The deal extra damage to marked mobs (which daring shout gives) IS significant, I havnt done the calculations but its definately noticeable you can test it yourself (plus it effects whole group).
I find this odd you talk about the skill yet fail to mention its most significant effect.
"Marked foes have reduced Damage Resistance until they attack you" <effects whole party.
Meanwhile come and get it... a damage buff for 1 encounter and a small pull effect bleh, but then again i mention i dont PUG, my CW sets me up for big aoe when their isnt a ledge to push them off.
Ill also mention again the value of all these defense debuffs gwf brings, so many times your damage vs a single boss will be weak however with 45% trait for -defence, -45% from greater plaguefire, -damage resistance from Daring shout and on demand combat advantage from not so fast, needless to say your rogue's (and other party members) are going to notice it.
With all these abilities should a GWF be focused on maxing his own damage above everything else? I say no. Though everyone seems to forget that your own damage isnt everything.
Does this make it harder to top damage charts? prob yea cause everyones damage is higher because of YOU, do i care? not if im bringing more to the table than focusing solely on my own damage.
Though your damage despite all this is always going to be "up there".
ALSO PS, your gonna mention indominatable battle strike gives the exact same mark and yes i use it too!, sometimes getting marks via indominatable battle strike isnt an option and even if it is, you can maintain a much larger upkeep with daring.
Daring shout, I take reduced damage, increased determination and boost my parties damage all from one skill? ARE U TROLLING ME? No sir i am not! You can also trait it for +15% of your own damage to marked targets, youd prob have to test this with the crits cause bleeds talent cause you cant rly change it for anything else. I havnt tested this but the numbers are prob similiar.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Ok, I can see what Daring Shout brings to the table... My question is has anyone done testing with it, numbers crunching, or also thinks it is better then Come and Get It?
I've honestly loved the AOE pull in effect of Come and Get It, though only a 20' raduis, it does set up getting all the ADDs within Not So Fast range. It also can line up multiple mobs for IBS, something I have also found useful thus far.
3rd encounter you can play with and there are lots of options. If you like pounding on bosses use flourish if you like aoeing all over the place use ground stomp as it also gives combat advantage and crit buff from your feats, you like building determination use roar, you like running all over the place use battle fury. The choice is yours on this one to complement your play style and interests. Many options all are good to make sure it synergies with your play style.
The issue I have with marks is a simple issue: They go away as soon as you're hit. If it works for the whole team it could be more useful, but you also need to remember that IBS gives a mark as well when you kill a target with it. Not much need for two mark skills unless you really needed the reliability of an already unreliable system. I used Daring Shout and thought the same as you until I realized I was getting aggro pretty often. It's the same issue I have with the Instigator cap ability.
I'll say this though, I think I'm going to need to change up my build over to Instigator for T2. I don't know why I didn't notice until T2, but Reaping Strike is capped to five targets struck.
Figured I would ask this here since I'm sure someone would know, but is Wicked Strikes capped to a number of targets it is able to hit per swing? I'd test it myself but I removed it from my powers when I was testing out some things. If it's not, then I might be going over to Instigator for T2.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'll say this though, I think I'm going to need to change up my build over to Instigator for T2. I don't know why I didn't notice until T2, but Reaping Strike is capped to five targets struck.
Figured I would ask this here since I'm sure someone would know, but is Wicked Strikes capped to a number of targets it is able to hit per swing? I'd test it myself but I removed it from my powers when I was testing out some things. If it's not, then I might be going over to Instigator for T2.
There are very few attacks in the game that are not capped at 5 targets, it's not something unique to reaping strike.
Come and get it stacks the enemies = faster killing. Roar is nice but the knockback screws our DPS up-time. You don't need the extra determination IMO.
I just did epic pirate for the first time on my GWF and lost to the rogue by 200k (5.1 to my 4.9, wizard was 3.6 or something) in a dungeon with less knocking off ledges and more killing of trash I would have won. My gearscore is still only 8.9k so It's not like I'm running in uber gear either. I also am still not quite optimizing my damage to it's full extent. As I play more and get better at the GWF I can see that I'll be topping charts.
This is so much more fun to play than my cleric. My buddies are all gonna be pissed that I'm not healing very often anymore.
Roar is an awesome skill. Also one of our only ranged attacks. Never underestimate Roar which also procs Steel Blitz as well as adding a huge amount of determination depending on how many hit. Also the knock back used in the right hands is pure win.
An outstanding skill for a true instigator. First in, roar to position mobs and grab initial aggro. Use unstoppable now and weave WMS/WS. Hit IBS (correctly) and fill your AP pool. Now it is time to mosh with slam. Ohh yeah...the rest of the group just showed up.
That is 95% of a dungeon run. Roar can be used in boss fights to toss adds (not as well as a CW granted) and to instantly grab aggro/push mobs.
Pretty nice skill when you couple it with a decent life steal, which also grants life off the Steel Blitz proc as well as the initial hit.
I play with my control wizard husband and he consistently kicks my butt on damage.
I'm using your Instigator spec, combining WMS with WS, using Roar, indomitable battle strike, not so fast and the Slam daily....and that smug wizard SOB keeps kicking my butt!
Please help! We can let the Wizards win.
I've noticed recently that half the time my AP generating abilities aren't generating AP anymore when I'm stacking damage from 2 sources.... anybody else notice that? (say unstoppable and roar will net 0 gain.)
I've noticed recently that half the time my AP generating abilities aren't generating AP anymore when I'm stacking damage from 2 sources.... anybody else notice that? (say unstoppable and roar will net 0 gain.)
There have been many fights where I had to ask myself that question. Why am I not generating AP?
I play with my control wizard husband and he consistently kicks my butt on damage.
I'm using your Instigator spec, combining WMS with WS, using Roar, indomitable battle strike, not so fast and the Slam daily....and that smug wizard SOB keeps kicking my butt!
Please help! We can let the Wizards win.
Love Killhugs
Tell your hubby to stop punting the mobs 50 yards away right as you blast IBS into a group of mobs.
Obviously I don't know how your husband plays, but the only time I've been out dps'd by a CW is one who seemed to punt mobs to spite me.
I play with my control wizard husband and he consistently kicks my butt on damage.
I'm using your Instigator spec, combining WMS with WS, using Roar, indomitable battle strike, not so fast and the Slam daily....and that smug wizard SOB keeps kicking my butt!
Please help! We can let the Wizards win.
Love Killhugs
What's your current gear like? GWF scales pretty nicely with gear and definitely has the potential to outdamage a CW (though admittedly it's harder if the CW knows what they're doing)
What's your current gear like? GWF scales pretty nicely with gear and definitely has the potential to outdamage a CW (though admittedly it's harder if the CW knows what they're doing)
If all else is equal, gear/enchants/Player skills/etc... there is no way in hell a GWF can even come close to a CW's dps. What's even more sad, is that the CW's role is to control adds, and that the AoE dps is just a side bonus. Currently with the messed up mechanics of end game content, there is absolutely no role for a GWF. I am not saying that they shouldn't run T2s. I personally will go on any T2 as long as there is 1x DC and 1CW. Still, I would like Cryptic to create a defined role in a group, and I hope to god it has nothing to do with AoE damage, which is pointless with the current content.
Tell your hubby to stop punting the mobs 50 yards away right as you blast IBS into a group of mobs.
Obviously I don't know how your husband plays, but the only time I've been out dps'd by a CW is one who seemed to punt mobs to spite me.
There is only 1 knockback that should be used during trash runs by CWs and that is Shield. A properly played CW will use it once the singularity is up so that they can refill their AP while instantly gathering the dispersed mobs. Singularity is the single most dps boost to a GWF. The faster we generate AP the more we can pump them out. So believe it or not, when done right, our knockbacks actually increase your dps, not the other way around.
Of course, I still see a lot of GWFs and even TRs, who constantly keep running after the mobs and waste even more time not DPSing. Even when there is no Singularity up, and a CW does a knockback, the adds will be running back in a split second, not to mention that leaving the Astral Shield just to try to increase your dps is pretty silly.
If all is equal, which would then include 5 targets only since GWF is target capped, a CW will not outdamage a GWF.
Obviously I was referring to variables that we have control over and based on what the current content provides. Regardless, I still dont see how that makes a difference, as many of a CWs powers also have Target limits, while also using our only meaningful at-will which happens to be single-target. And even if, hypothetical speaking, you are right, you still need a CW to bring those 5 mobs all nice and packed within your swing reach. :P
Right now I will take any boost to GWFs, but all I see in these "balancing" is nerfing the dps of CWs and TRs, and slightly boosting that of GWFs. I donno, it seems to me that the people who work on content and its mechanics aren't communicating with those balancing classes. I dont see how these class changes will have any impact on how dungeons are run.
Comments
Beat the rogue by about 25%. It was 3 clerics, myself and the rogue. I had highest damage taken and highest damage and most enemies slain. This build is amazing. I like using Not so Fast, Come and Get it then IBS for 12-15k swings. IBS has great AP generation so slam has great up-time. I can't wait to use IBS on a singularity stack!
Come and get it stacks the enemies = faster killing. Roar is nice but the knockback screws our DPS up-time. You don't need the extra determination IMO.
I just did epic pirate for the first time on my GWF and lost to the rogue by 200k (5.1 to my 4.9, wizard was 3.6 or something) in a dungeon with less knocking off ledges and more killing of trash I would have won. My gearscore is still only 8.9k so It's not like I'm running in uber gear either. I also am still not quite optimizing my damage to it's full extent. As I play more and get better at the GWF I can see that I'll be topping charts.
This is so much more fun to play than my cleric. My buddies are all gonna be pissed that I'm not healing very often anymore.
Roar's AoE pretty much ensures that it's only useful when a CW has their Arcane Singularity going. It is far too narrow of an AoE, and often times you would have done more damage even using Flourish on a single-target. The knockback is also a problem for me, since the GWF does better with packed groups of add's than spread out enemies.
Still, Roar has it's place. I'm a Destroyer though, so Reaping Strike is really all I need for Determination gain. Come and Get It paired with IBS is more reliable AoE than Roar IMO and does more damage.
As for roar / come and get it..... why is everyone forgeting the best one which is challenging shout? - boost parties damage check, gain determination check, become more tanky which can help sometimes check.
I run challenging, not so fast and indominatable battle strike. greater plaguefire + our trait = 90% armor reducion, not so fast gives on demand full combat advantage and challanging also gives a party damage boost. Our damage is not the best and the quicker ppl realise that right now the better, boost your party while still doing fairly good damage!.
But then... i dont pug....
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Feats:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cwv2y9qtetg7wyl/Irenys_Feats.jpg
Powers:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/h5qc56cmhrywr5r/Irenys_Powers_1.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9zm8d565qi83ol1/Irenys_Powers_2.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/download/pe4qnx50bcp69e5/Irenys_Powers_3.jpg
Edit: Ok Mediafire keeps telling me my jpegs are not images... So for the time being I'm linking to them.
I took the dive and tried Come and Get It... **** I've been missing out. Like majorly.
I had been using Roar in that slot (along with the staples of Not So Fast and IBS). While Roar's action point generation was effing sweet, I will readily admit the pushing away of mobs was usually less then useful for me. After 24 hours of running multiple dungeons, some Foundries, etc. Come and Get It is an allstar IMO. So consider me converted...
Now I'd like to ask: sacredchaos, about his statement that Challenging Shout is better then Come and Get it. What are the exact benefits (numbers wise) that Challenging Shout gives out to the group? Just curious if I should test it out and such... Anyone else have any insight into Challenging Shout vs. Come and Get It?
I'm still drawing a blank on what exactly he means by Challenging Shout. It's possible he's talking about Daring Shout juding from what he says the effects are. If that's the case, Daring Shout does pop Unstoppable by itself on large groups but without Deflection and higher Defense ratings it falls short as a damage resistance buff if you're shooting for a DPS build. I mean, it's still useful to have it, but not in the majority of fights. If you don't PUG, I don't think you would ever really need it if you've got a decent team.
I can't tell you how big the defense bonus from Daring Shout is, it is noticeable, but it just doesn't save you as well as it could. I really think it's just because I don't have any Deflection in my stats. A Sentinel spec would want to use Daring Shout to place their marks and increase their survivability, but for an Instigator or Destroyer it just doesn't perform very well. Or at least not as well as I feel it should.
Ye daring shout, ive not played for a few days waiting for content. The deal extra damage to marked mobs (which daring shout gives) IS significant, I havnt done the calculations but its definately noticeable you can test it yourself (plus it effects whole group).
I find this odd you talk about the skill yet fail to mention its most significant effect.
"Marked foes have reduced Damage Resistance until they attack you" <effects whole party.
Meanwhile come and get it... a damage buff for 1 encounter and a small pull effect bleh, but then again i mention i dont PUG, my CW sets me up for big aoe when their isnt a ledge to push them off.
Ill also mention again the value of all these defense debuffs gwf brings, so many times your damage vs a single boss will be weak however with 45% trait for -defence, -45% from greater plaguefire, -damage resistance from Daring shout and on demand combat advantage from not so fast, needless to say your rogue's (and other party members) are going to notice it.
With all these abilities should a GWF be focused on maxing his own damage above everything else? I say no. Though everyone seems to forget that your own damage isnt everything.
Does this make it harder to top damage charts? prob yea cause everyones damage is higher because of YOU, do i care? not if im bringing more to the table than focusing solely on my own damage.
Though your damage despite all this is always going to be "up there".
ALSO PS, your gonna mention indominatable battle strike gives the exact same mark and yes i use it too!, sometimes getting marks via indominatable battle strike isnt an option and even if it is, you can maintain a much larger upkeep with daring.
Daring shout, I take reduced damage, increased determination and boost my parties damage all from one skill? ARE U TROLLING ME? No sir i am not!
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
I've honestly loved the AOE pull in effect of Come and Get It, though only a 20' raduis, it does set up getting all the ADDs within Not So Fast range. It also can line up multiple mobs for IBS, something I have also found useful thus far.
Which is ground stomp?
I'll say this though, I think I'm going to need to change up my build over to Instigator for T2. I don't know why I didn't notice until T2, but Reaping Strike is capped to five targets struck.
Figured I would ask this here since I'm sure someone would know, but is Wicked Strikes capped to a number of targets it is able to hit per swing? I'd test it myself but I removed it from my powers when I was testing out some things. If it's not, then I might be going over to Instigator for T2.
That's an odd limit to have in place considering the T2 content is never just five targets...
But he talks about it in the encounters, and slam isn't an encounter? That why I was confused.
Roar is an awesome skill. Also one of our only ranged attacks. Never underestimate Roar which also procs Steel Blitz as well as adding a huge amount of determination depending on how many hit. Also the knock back used in the right hands is pure win.
An outstanding skill for a true instigator. First in, roar to position mobs and grab initial aggro. Use unstoppable now and weave WMS/WS. Hit IBS (correctly) and fill your AP pool. Now it is time to mosh with slam. Ohh yeah...the rest of the group just showed up.
That is 95% of a dungeon run. Roar can be used in boss fights to toss adds (not as well as a CW granted) and to instantly grab aggro/push mobs.
Pretty nice skill when you couple it with a decent life steal, which also grants life off the Steel Blitz proc as well as the initial hit.
I play with my control wizard husband and he consistently kicks my butt on damage.
I'm using your Instigator spec, combining WMS with WS, using Roar, indomitable battle strike, not so fast and the Slam daily....and that smug wizard SOB keeps kicking my butt!
Please help! We can let the Wizards win.
Love Killhugs
There have been many fights where I had to ask myself that question. Why am I not generating AP?
Tell your hubby to stop punting the mobs 50 yards away right as you blast IBS into a group of mobs.
Obviously I don't know how your husband plays, but the only time I've been out dps'd by a CW is one who seemed to punt mobs to spite me.
@ExtinctioN http://puu.sh/39wLt.jpg First time I've ever seen 2 GWFs in a t2 and look what happens
If all else is equal, gear/enchants/Player skills/etc... there is no way in hell a GWF can even come close to a CW's dps. What's even more sad, is that the CW's role is to control adds, and that the AoE dps is just a side bonus. Currently with the messed up mechanics of end game content, there is absolutely no role for a GWF. I am not saying that they shouldn't run T2s. I personally will go on any T2 as long as there is 1x DC and 1CW. Still, I would like Cryptic to create a defined role in a group, and I hope to god it has nothing to do with AoE damage, which is pointless with the current content.
There is only 1 knockback that should be used during trash runs by CWs and that is Shield. A properly played CW will use it once the singularity is up so that they can refill their AP while instantly gathering the dispersed mobs. Singularity is the single most dps boost to a GWF. The faster we generate AP the more we can pump them out. So believe it or not, when done right, our knockbacks actually increase your dps, not the other way around.
Of course, I still see a lot of GWFs and even TRs, who constantly keep running after the mobs and waste even more time not DPSing. Even when there is no Singularity up, and a CW does a knockback, the adds will be running back in a split second, not to mention that leaving the Astral Shield just to try to increase your dps is pretty silly.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501
yey!
Obviously I was referring to variables that we have control over and based on what the current content provides. Regardless, I still dont see how that makes a difference, as many of a CWs powers also have Target limits, while also using our only meaningful at-will which happens to be single-target. And even if, hypothetical speaking, you are right, you still need a CW to bring those 5 mobs all nice and packed within your swing reach. :P
Right now I will take any boost to GWFs, but all I see in these "balancing" is nerfing the dps of CWs and TRs, and slightly boosting that of GWFs. I donno, it seems to me that the people who work on content and its mechanics aren't communicating with those balancing classes. I dont see how these class changes will have any impact on how dungeons are run.