Agreed. If they can't even fix up their original classes first, what stops the next class from being another disaster?
I would imagine, if they have been paying attention, they might not make the mistake because the topic is a raging wildfire at time.
I'd bet that the new classes might even end up over compensating if anything, as they try to find the right balance.
Today i was in cragmire cripts with 2 cw, 1 gwf, 1 gf and me, a cleric. One of cw just disconnected, and the other was dead by the boss in a bit time, i did cant do nothing by him. So there were us, 1 gwf, 1 gf and me with full life boss and in the end, we killed him. The combat was really bad, no focus, a lot of adds just appear and we had no damage to kill them, but, gwf and gf have a great resistence. It would be impossible for me with other classes.
Im not agree with gf and gwf are useless, not at all. if you are talking about pvp, maybe they have nothing special, but they can kill you, oh yes, they can. In pve, the same, if they have their feats fine, capting agro and that kind of things and the rest of the party too (i ve seen clerics with no even one point on reduce threat...)they are so good like any other.
Here people only talk about the class, no about the players and how they play. A rogue or cw can not hold the damage in pve, the gf and gwf can.
If we talk about class, cw are OP, they are the best in pvp and the best dealing damage in pve, cause rogues only can focus for one target, but cw can control the adds, destroy them and make the same or more damage than the rogue on boss, cause rogue depends of anybody else have the focus and needs be closed to the boss for stack his damage, but in deed, the most part of final boss, have skills to get away the rogues, but bosses can not get away the cw damage.
A well geared, well specced and well played GWF can compete on damage, I am consistently 1st/2nd on the group's meters. That said, it took full T2 gear, rank 6+ gems, and a min/maxed respec to achieve it.
An equivalent geared & played rogue/cw can wipe the floor with my damage, it just so happens that most of the players picked those classes and most are terrible at it, the low end matches the best a GWF can do!
Seriously considering a reroll, but after yesterday's events I might just hang it up and wait for the GWF buff that might never come.
You don't need damage in this game. You can push of cliffs.
You don't need tanks in this game. You can dodge or stand inside Astral Shield.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
The big problem is that people are trying to play the game as if it were a Trinity setup. It's definitely not, don't put your GF on the boss if there's going to be tons of adds that they can round up. Have your CW black hole everything and CC the LTs. Put your minions next to the boss and a GWF will decimate the lot of them.
The game comes down to positioning and knowing the fights. Most you can just power through with DPS and cliff abuse, but many of them are knowing what needs to be tanked by whom and what your target should be. It's a shame that a game with a voice chat as good as this one has such horrible communication.
Really you're best off finding a guild and put together a proper team. Competency remains the hardest thing to find in an MMO.
The big problem is that people are trying to play the game as if it were a Trinity setup. It's definitely not, don't put your GF on the boss if there's going to be tons of adds that they can round up. Have your CW black hole everything and CC the LTs. Put your minions next to the boss and a GWF will decimate the lot of them.
The game comes down to positioning and knowing the fights. Most you can just power through with DPS and cliff abuse, but many of them are knowing what needs to be tanked by whom and what your target should be. It's a shame that a game with a voice chat as good as this one has such horrible communication.
Really you're best off finding a guild and put together a proper team. Competency remains the hardest thing to find in an MMO.
Im a CW with a GWF BF in game and he literally cannot get into over half the pugs we try to run together because hes a GWF.(And hes a good one too). He hasnt even been given the opportunity to run CN while Im asked to run it constantly.
Id like to see a huge patch where some dungeons are introduced with super good loot that are skill specific to GFs and GWFs..no singularity bumps needed.
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howitzer001Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 65Arc User
Control Wizard, Rogue, Cleric. When is Cryptic going to add more classes in game?
(And yes my post is deliberate, GWF and GF are absolutely garbage in higher levels, they server ZERO purpose and are actually a complete detriment to the group)
It's unfortunate but true. There are some serious problems with the GWF and GF.
Control Wizard, Rogue, Cleric. When is Cryptic going to add more classes in game?
(And yes my post is deliberate, GWF and GF are absolutely garbage in higher levels, they server ZERO purpose and are actually a complete detriment to the group)
If they release any other class before the GWF and GF fix that are needed I'll be done with this game.
I think a lot of people are missing the point. You CAN run a dungeon fine with a GWF or GF. Either one can pull in adds and AOE. The point being is, CW can pull in adds and AOE MUCH better and Rogues can do much better dps and can do ranged dmg when dodging AOE's
So every story you have to tell of how you had a GWF who rounded up the mobs or worked with the CW to put them down fast, replace that GWF with a CW. The scenerio would have ended the same, just quicker. Since the CW has more CC AND more dmg, they don't need to absorb hits. Mobs are dead faster and they're held in place longer. Same goes for GF. Any story of a good tank who somehow managed to grab the adds properly, can be replaced by a CW who can CC those same adds in place and AOE them down quicker.
You want tank to be a viable role, give them some AOE CC's and real AOE damage OR make his resistances spectacular enough that he can soak up the bosses and adds damage without breaking a sweat and keep that boss rooted in place.
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madpianistaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Dude, i have met some GF that are really good, they actually presented a problem to me, a CW...ha! in PvP i'm like a god, just other CW present a real deal, but still the player always influence, they really need to nerf CW, Cleric and Rogue a little bit.
Control Wizard, Rogue, Cleric. When is Cryptic going to add more classes in game?
(And yes my post is deliberate, GWF and GF are absolutely garbage in higher levels, they server ZERO purpose and are actually a complete detriment to the group)
I have to disagree.
If you played any other game that has a Tank class it is always classified as the hardest difficulty class. If you know how to play the GF you can do just fine in any 60 epic dungeons, I speak from experience. People have just classified the GFs as useless because of a lack of players that actually KNOW the mechanics of the class.
I think a lot of people are missing the point. You CAN run a dungeon fine with a GWF or GF. Either one can pull in adds and AOE. The point being is, CW can pull in adds and AOE MUCH better and Rogues can do much better dps and can do ranged dmg when dodging AOE's
So every story you have to tell of how you had a GWF who rounded up the mobs or worked with the CW to put them down fast, replace that GWF with a CW. The scenerio would have ended the same, just quicker. Since the CW has more CC AND more dmg, they don't need to absorb hits. Mobs are dead faster and they're held in place longer. Same goes for GF. Any story of a good tank who somehow managed to grab the adds properly, can be replaced by a CW who can CC those same adds in place and AOE them down quicker.
You want tank to be a viable role, give them some AOE CC's and real AOE damage OR make his resistances spectacular enough that he can soak up the bosses and adds damage without breaking a sweat and keep that boss rooted in place.
Tanks have the highest AOE potential out of all the classes.
Control Wizard, Rogue, Cleric. When is Cryptic going to add more classes in game?
(And yes my post is deliberate, GWF and GF are absolutely garbage in higher levels, they server ZERO purpose and are actually a complete detriment to the group)
and if they charge 3000 yen for new class would you pay for it? or is it all sudden "oh it's not the class I want, give me class I want, it cost too much, lower the price"
This game is an Exploit by design: everywhere you can click on you can find a zen-store button. They call it Beta and want a testing realm aside: What???? Isnt Beta a test fase?
If two classes are not viable ones you hit 60 and like to pug dungeons: Shouldn't it be #1 priority to give those 2 some fixes? Should a good game not focus on the game it self instead of there cash-shop. Is spending cash not related to the good feeling you have about the game and thus the developers?
I dont understand this company to be honest. The only thing i see is that this game has a short life if they need a good player base. It just doesnt feel good and the 2 classes i like the most are completely broken for Pve endgame and the response on fixing them is not that serious.
Well, in past D&D games the idea of moving out of combat with a melee unit is very detrimental to enemies, altogether deadly due to all the AoOs those enemies would constantly receive. Thus creating the all important aggro, thus making melee units very desirable for party. Unfortunately, "mark" just doesnt work good. Which is the new way of keeping aggro. So it at least for now is a wash.
Learn to play the other 2 classes and ask the devs to refine those first rather than requesting more broken classes. When the other 2 classes are fixed, then they should start thinking of adding more.
What about the other paragon choices for the classes we have? Not to mention getting all the feats and abilities working as intended.
There's only one paragon path. The paragon choices all help you to do your intended role in different ways. For example a rogue can put pots in the stealth feat choices, the crit feat choices, or the burst damage feat choices; but he'll always be a "master infiltrator" and will always have the role of single-target DPS. At least until more options are added.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Lol, you guys keep putting up threads saying GF and GWF are useless, you need to group with more people tbh. Most of you are probably the ones looking for double CW or double Cleric groups and have probably only actually been in a group once or twice with GF and GWF.
There are alot of excellent players that use these classes. I'm not one of them before you start thinking I'm defending my class, but I have been in plenty of pugs with decent players of those classes. Used/specced properly they are extremely effective.
The other classes have their faults too. Example; Alot of the CW's I've seen simply use kockbacks to launch adds off cliffs or ledges, thats not exactly ground breaking tactics. Some Clerics drop an Astral Shield and then don't do much else apart from build more Divinity with at wills so they can drop the next one, again, not hard. These are just unimaginitive tactics used to try and turn fights into tank and spanks imo.
Sooner or later the GF and GWF will be buffed or 'fixed' then the next set of threads will be 'omg wtf nerf GF and GWF theyre out dpsing me, theyre out of control my CW is redundant'. Theres already alot of posts asking for those classes to be nerfed in Pvp as there are with all classes at some point. Either that or these kind of threads will stop anyone playing them altogether and when the changes come and theyre needed there won't be enough in game and the lengthy queues for dps classes begins.
(And yes my post is deliberate, GWF and GF are absolutely garbage in higher levels, they server ZERO purpose and are actually a complete detriment to the group)
u must be talking about PvP cause my GWF has been a boon to our group in the actual game.
It occurs to me that probably most of the posters that say GF's and GWF's are doohdooh don't play one and are very likely the ones groupkicking the GF's and GWF's who post here telling the classes needs some work but are basically sound.
This game shouldn't even be called D&D at this point. To play a PnP version of this game would suck so bad it would be like trying to get a group together to playtest D&D Next as awful as that game is...Wait! I figured it out this game is based off the next D&D Next aka D&D 5.0...LOL! Worst PnP I ever played and Neverwinter is the most unbalanced MMO since AoC launched. Remember those ToS...that is what it feels like playing this game.
Comments
Range DPS > melee dps
I'd bet that the new classes might even end up over compensating if anything, as they try to find the right balance.
Im not agree with gf and gwf are useless, not at all. if you are talking about pvp, maybe they have nothing special, but they can kill you, oh yes, they can. In pve, the same, if they have their feats fine, capting agro and that kind of things and the rest of the party too (i ve seen clerics with no even one point on reduce threat...)they are so good like any other.
Here people only talk about the class, no about the players and how they play. A rogue or cw can not hold the damage in pve, the gf and gwf can.
If we talk about class, cw are OP, they are the best in pvp and the best dealing damage in pve, cause rogues only can focus for one target, but cw can control the adds, destroy them and make the same or more damage than the rogue on boss, cause rogue depends of anybody else have the focus and needs be closed to the boss for stack his damage, but in deed, the most part of final boss, have skills to get away the rogues, but bosses can not get away the cw damage.
PD:srry for my english.
You don't need damage in this game. You can push of cliffs.
You don't need tanks in this game. You can dodge or stand inside Astral Shield.
Not all dungeons have cliffs so... Good luck with that?
The game comes down to positioning and knowing the fights. Most you can just power through with DPS and cliff abuse, but many of them are knowing what needs to be tanked by whom and what your target should be. It's a shame that a game with a voice chat as good as this one has such horrible communication.
Really you're best off finding a guild and put together a proper team. Competency remains the hardest thing to find in an MMO.
+1
Kudos.
Id like to see a huge patch where some dungeons are introduced with super good loot that are skill specific to GFs and GWFs..no singularity bumps needed.
It's unfortunate but true. There are some serious problems with the GWF and GF.
www.fusion-guild.org
Sir Howitzer - GF | Howitzer - HR
If they release any other class before the GWF and GF fix that are needed I'll be done with this game.
So every story you have to tell of how you had a GWF who rounded up the mobs or worked with the CW to put them down fast, replace that GWF with a CW. The scenerio would have ended the same, just quicker. Since the CW has more CC AND more dmg, they don't need to absorb hits. Mobs are dead faster and they're held in place longer. Same goes for GF. Any story of a good tank who somehow managed to grab the adds properly, can be replaced by a CW who can CC those same adds in place and AOE them down quicker.
You want tank to be a viable role, give them some AOE CC's and real AOE damage OR make his resistances spectacular enough that he can soak up the bosses and adds damage without breaking a sweat and keep that boss rooted in place.
I have to disagree.
If you played any other game that has a Tank class it is always classified as the hardest difficulty class. If you know how to play the GF you can do just fine in any 60 epic dungeons, I speak from experience. People have just classified the GFs as useless because of a lack of players that actually KNOW the mechanics of the class.
Tanks have the highest AOE potential out of all the classes.
and if they charge 3000 yen for new class would you pay for it? or is it all sudden "oh it's not the class I want, give me class I want, it cost too much, lower the price"
If two classes are not viable ones you hit 60 and like to pug dungeons: Shouldn't it be #1 priority to give those 2 some fixes? Should a good game not focus on the game it self instead of there cash-shop. Is spending cash not related to the good feeling you have about the game and thus the developers?
I dont understand this company to be honest. The only thing i see is that this game has a short life if they need a good player base. It just doesnt feel good and the 2 classes i like the most are completely broken for Pve endgame and the response on fixing them is not that serious.
Though with these game mechanics i can see a sorcerer or warlock having access to end game content.
We will see!
There's only one paragon path. The paragon choices all help you to do your intended role in different ways. For example a rogue can put pots in the stealth feat choices, the crit feat choices, or the burst damage feat choices; but he'll always be a "master infiltrator" and will always have the role of single-target DPS. At least until more options are added.
There are alot of excellent players that use these classes. I'm not one of them before you start thinking I'm defending my class, but I have been in plenty of pugs with decent players of those classes. Used/specced properly they are extremely effective.
The other classes have their faults too. Example; Alot of the CW's I've seen simply use kockbacks to launch adds off cliffs or ledges, thats not exactly ground breaking tactics. Some Clerics drop an Astral Shield and then don't do much else apart from build more Divinity with at wills so they can drop the next one, again, not hard. These are just unimaginitive tactics used to try and turn fights into tank and spanks imo.
Sooner or later the GF and GWF will be buffed or 'fixed' then the next set of threads will be 'omg wtf nerf GF and GWF theyre out dpsing me, theyre out of control my CW is redundant'. Theres already alot of posts asking for those classes to be nerfed in Pvp as there are with all classes at some point. Either that or these kind of threads will stop anyone playing them altogether and when the changes come and theyre needed there won't be enough in game and the lengthy queues for dps classes begins.