zoroasterrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
maybe you didnt realize it: you dont have to pvp here and pvp doesnt play a big role here.you dont have to fight over kill quests or for loot since there is no open world pvp.pvp is still very unblanced atm maybe they will work on it maybe they dont but since its not a big part of the game you can just skip the whole pvp part .
maybe you didnt realize it: you dont have to pvp here and pvp doesnt play a big role here.you dont have to fight over kill quests or for loot since there is no open world pvp.pvp is still very unblanced atm maybe they will work on it maybe they dont but since its not a big part of the game you can just skip the whole pvp part .
PVP will always be "unbalanced" because there are good players and there are terrible players. The terrible players think that the class balance is the issue when in reality, they are just bad players and would cry about other classes being OP no matter what class they are playing.
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zoroasterrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
maybe your right and im a bad player but i dont care cause i like this kind of combat system and its fun to play ^_^
I would hope so, this being the honeymoon stage and all. There were countless others in CO and STO who felt the same, in the beginning, as well. Neglect takes time. And in time, they all left.
Given that the upcoming content update, Gauntlygrym, is a competitive PvP/PvE raid, it doesn't look like they'll be neglecting it anytime soon.
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is not DnD. This is not an online representation of a pen and paper RPG. This is an MMO set in the Forgotten Realms universe. I don't mean to be rude, but this should not have to be explained to you. PvP is in this game because PvP is in all competent MMOs.
Couldn't be further from the truth. And that shouldn't have to be explained to YOU actually. lol. If you read any of the literature from cryptic they actually wanted this to BE a D&D experience online. Not a 'standard mmo with pvp' lol. Which is why all the work went into and will be going into the foundry where people can make quests tailored to just their gaming group if they like. It is literally a d&d medium in electronic format. I can tell by your comment you're actually not that familiar with D&D as the at-wills, encounters, dailies, classes, races are all straight from fourth edition. Did they have to change things because this isn't turn based? sure, but its darn close.
That said, pvp is thrown in for those who like it and there's no reason to remove extra functionality. However, I wouldn't want them spending their time there either, since this is not a pvp focused mmo (again, stated by cryptic). If you want a game that focuses on that balance and is a pvp oriented mmo, there are a select few that do that to the nth degree. But don't come on here spewing that this isn't d&d, because well 1. you're wrong and 2. you're gonna be REAL disappointed lol.
Couldn't be further from the truth. And that shouldn't have to be explained to YOU actually. lol. If you read any of the literature from cryptic they actually wanted this to BE a D&D experience online. Not a 'standard mmo with pvp' lol. Which is why all the work went into and will be going into the foundry where people can make quests tailored to just their gaming group if they like. It is literally a d&d medium in electronic format. I can tell by your comment you're actually not that familiar with D&D as the at-wills, encounters, dailies, classes, races are all straight from fourth edition. Did they have to change things because this isn't turn based? sure, but its darn close.
That said, pvp is thrown in for those who like it and there's no reason to remove extra functionality. However, I wouldn't want them spending their time there either, since this is not a pvp focused mmo (again, stated by cryptic). If you want a game that focuses on that balance and is a pvp oriented mmo, there are a select few that do that to the nth degree. But don't come on here spewing that this isn't d&d, because well 1. you're wrong and 2. you're gonna be REAL disappointed lol.
You've literally refuted nothing of what I've said. As I said, this is a standard MMO within the DnD setting, so of course it would have the same races and classes and skill names and such. What this is not, is "DnD is electronic form". MMOs and Pen and Paper RPGs couldn't be more different. There's no emphasis on character interaction or development here. There's no character alignments or changes to the story depending on which action you take. This game is a MMO within the DnD setting, similar to how the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games were hack-n-slash dungeon crawlers within the DnD universe. Which is fine. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
What Cryptic wanted this game to be in irrelevant. What it is, is all that matters.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I was just wondering if anyone here had actually set up a format to do it with the "modern" incarnation of DnD. I think it could be relatively easily done, though it would take some work and perhaps even modification (though, that isnt exactly too obscure for some DMs in principle). Id be interested to see how they set it all up, etc. I doubt that many have done it, if any, simply because the common mindset is staunchly against fighting other players (other than the dastardly DM of course).
Oh well, thanks for the link anyway.
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ellindar1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You've literally refuted nothing of what I've said. As I said, this is a standard MMO within the DnD setting, so of course it would have the same races and classes and skill names and such. What this is not, is "DnD is electronic form". MMOs and Pen and Paper RPGs couldn't be more different. There's no emphasis on character interaction or development here. There's no character alignments or changes to the story depending on which action you take. This game is a MMO within the DnD setting, similar to how the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games were hack-n-slash dungeon crawlers within the DnD universe. Which is fine. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
What Cryptic wanted this game to be in irrelevant. What it is, is all that matters.
And what a lot of people perceive is apparently very different from what you are trying to tell us it is. LOL. But its ok, you can try to make it what YOU want, and we'll go on playing what it is. That seems fair to me.
They want to make money though so they need to cater to the PvP crowd to make them stay? But do the PvP crowd actually spend anything.
Personally I'm a bit annoyed that I *have* to PvP as it's the easiest way to get T1 epics. I don't enjoy it. I can't see why I would want to ever. I'm a DC and just not geared for it. 3000-5000 per piece and 350 glory for a fail (if I'm lucky - once I got 35 and I don't know why?). I'm almost always at the bottom of the table. All I feel like I can do is astral sheild or hallowed ground for my team mates and then try to tag the other side at least once with a Brand. Sometimes the other side just see me coming and jump on me despite anyone else. I figure it's just they think that I'm an easy target? It's not fun. It's stupid. And I have to spend how many hours doing this stupid stuff in order to progress?
It makes me want to stop playing.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
1) Every MMO that I have played that tried to mix pvp with pve ended up an unbalanced mess.
2) There is no MMO or any other kind of game that can replace good old table top D&D. No DM and the AI is lacking
@ 2. I truly doubt they mean it as a replacement, because some of the elements of pen & paper can't be replicated. I think its meant to be a fun alternative. With being able to create your own npcs, your own story, your own locations and environments, you can really create adventures like you would for your pen and paper group. Definitely not the same, and the roleplaying is lessened, but still fun to see some of the creations you've done for them on paper come to life in here.
Its Dungeons and Dragons not LOL its all about adventuring as a team I dont even understand why PvP is in this game in the first place >.> The dev time used on PvP could be used to fix stuff like the AH and GWF.
Dont get me wrong I play things like Dota2 and TF2 I like a good player vs player fight now and then but I think its just wasted time here.
Of course this is just my opinion.
I'm against this since with PvP I earn free gold , without it I 'll actually have to farm gold lol .
Solution make all the Pvpers fight with no armor/weapons/ or mounts. if they whine tell them to L2P. If they complain that some class is OP or needs balance strip all their powers as well. strip them right down to having to punch each other to death for 1 hp a strike. and they will all have 3 hps no healing.
But seriously its a very small part of the game, and some people really like it so I don't see a reason to nuke it. if needing to pvp for leet gear is the problem maybe they just need to make the non pvp gear more equivalent. maybe have more Leet gear available via crafting.
Though I do dislike the argument of well if its there I HAVE to use it so I think no one should have it is the same reason we cant scroll in/out in combat or let clerics target friends via portrait/hotkey and why we cant use our mouse to click icons unless we are in a "mode". One thing that this game has made very very clear. the reason certain things are the way they are is the devs like them that way. if they were talking about possibly adding it that would be one thing. but PVP is here it works relatively well and they have more planned so all this thread is gonna do is Troll.
If the developers took rewards out of PvP, I wouldn't. As it is, the only reason I do any PvP at all is astral diamonds from daily missions and it's much faster leveling than missions/quests. Take those two factors out, and I'd never set foot in another arena.
1) Every MMO that I have played that tried to mix pvp with pve ended up an unbalanced mess.
QFmotherfrakkingT.
EVERY MMO I've played(for the last fifteen years, no less) is just that. A mess. Go scour the internet. Visit every forum board of every MMO out there that has PvP in it. Read up. Then log into those games and hit the PvP arena and listen. Caustic. And when game developers try to balance things out to please the e-peen crowd that plays the most....they end up totally destroying PvE balance.
All the QQ'ing I see here about PvP is about the same as anywhere else out there. Nerf this, it's OP. Buff that, it's underpowered. OMG, do something about leechers. While I understand why Cryptic has put PvP into this game, (for extra added income! CASH!!)
I totally disagree with it.
PvP has a place. It's not in MMORPG's. FPSMMO, RTSMMO, sure. Whallop each other to your heart's content. Not sure what category LoL and other games like it place in...Action MMO? AMMO? ^_^, but they're just fine. Because all they have to worry about balancing is PvP.
It's when you try to mix the two that balance issues come to focus.
IF...and this is a VERY BIG if....Cryptic can keep game mechanics in PvE and PvP seperate and balance them out individually....great. But unless that happens...don't ruin one aspect to please the other. Regardless of which side you're balancing. Just don't mess it up for the other guy.....and I just don't see that happening.
If the developers took rewards out of PvP, I wouldn't. As it is, the only reason I do any PvP at all is astral diamonds from daily missions and it's much faster leveling than missions/quests. Take those two factors out, and I'd never set foot in another arena.
QFmotherfrakkingT.
EVERY MMO I've played(for the last fifteen years, no less) is just that. A mess. Go scour the internet. Visit every forum board of every MMO out there that has PvP in it. Read up. Then log into those games and hit the PvP arena and listen. Caustic. And when game developers try to balance things out to please the e-peen crowd that plays the most....they end up totally destroying PvE balance.
All the QQ'ing I see here about PvP is about the same as anywhere else out there. Nerf this, it's OP. Buff that, it's underpowered. OMG, do something about leechers. While I understand why Cryptic has put PvP into this game, (for extra added income! CASH!!)
I totally disagree with it.
PvP has a place. It's not in MMORPG's. FPSMMO, RTSMMO, sure. Whallop each other to your heart's content. Not sure what category LoL and other games like it place in...Action MMO? AMMO? ^_^, but they're just fine. Because all they have to worry about balancing is PvP.
It's when you try to mix the two that balance issues come to focus.
IF...and this is a VERY BIG if....Cryptic can keep game mechanics in PvE and PvP seperate and balance them out individually....great. But unless that happens...don't ruin one aspect to please the other. Regardless of which side you're balancing. Just don't mess it up for the other guy.....and I just don't see that happening.
I can understand that some people dont like PvP but the problem is that game developers keep putting it on top of PvE instead of building their game with it from the ground up and that it ends up affecting PvE. Dont understand why your so angry about it, people keep telling us that this is a free game and that you dont need to spend any money on it to play. Same thing applies to PvP, its there and your not forced to use it to play the game or to be competitive.
Its been proven time again that MMOs that dont have it end up losing a good portion of their player base and its why they delayed NW so that they could include PvP in it. Seriously if they didnt you would see even more crying, raging and people complaining that there is nothing to do at end-game. Companies just need to learn that its something they cant just put into their game a few months before releasing them and fix it later and rip PvE apart to balance it.
A valid point. BUT being a long term D&D player I think in my opinion that PvP has no place here. Remember PvP wont be cut this is all theoretical it just seems to me this game should be the last place for PvP.
Of course many others will think differently.
Heh our group cant wait to be charmed,dominated, confused. Let the player killing commence!
Nobody is forcing you to. People buying end-game gear in the auction house has a bigger collective impact then 2 maps rewarding entry level end-game gear.
Nobody is forcing you to. People buying end-game gear in the auction house has a bigger collective impact then 2 maps rewarding entry level end-game gear.
when you don't have many AD the fastest way to get gear is that stupid glory system.
yes i don't have a 'choice'. i could instead go into dungeons with bugger all gear and just be crappy that way for ages due to luck.
'choice' maybe not. but they make it like you have to.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
0
kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I understand that, then its not about PvP its about the loot system that promotes bad player behaviour. I said it before i dont play this game very much because of how looting works and how both the current PvP and PvE system encourages bad player behaviour.
when you don't have many AD the fastest way to get gear is that stupid glory system.
yes i don't have a 'choice'. i could instead go into dungeons with bugger all gear and just be crappy that way for ages due to luck.
'choice' maybe not. but they make it like you have to.
You're saying you don't have the 50k AD you need to get 4 purple pieces? Or can't run Cloak Tower/Cragmire? Even while in blues/greens, you can fit in 2 of those runs in 1 DD. Two DD's and you'll have 4 epic pieces and enough seals to get a fifth. Sell/use and you'll be adequately geared to pick up the pace.
I have been saying from the very beginning that a pvp and pve don't mix one or the suffers and more than often both. You want to play a pvp game go play some real pvp perma death sandbox game where you can actually be an evil ******* and pk someone from behind etc etc blah blah.
PvP would be nice if the AFKers were ACTUALLY HANDLED...*nudge Cryptic / shove PWI*
Further, conflict is a key aspect to any MMO these days. The problem is, it's totally sandbox in NW -- by that I mean even pm groups don't come with much strat on these. Also, there's no point to it other than the standard capture the flag games which have just become the charred steak of PvP.
You're saying you don't have the 50k AD you need to get 4 purple pieces? Or can't run Cloak Tower/Cragmire? Even while in blues/greens, you can fit in 2 of those runs in 1 DD. Two DD's and you'll have 4 epic pieces and enough seals to get a fifth. Sell/use and you'll be adequately geared to pick up the pace.
oh that sounds like a better deal i'll try that. everyone just seems to tell me 'just pvp' all the time. mind you my experience of delves has been a bit so so.
better than pvp at any rate.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Comments
PVP will always be "unbalanced" because there are good players and there are terrible players. The terrible players think that the class balance is the issue when in reality, they are just bad players and would cry about other classes being OP no matter what class they are playing.
Given that the upcoming content update, Gauntlygrym, is a competitive PvP/PvE raid, it doesn't look like they'll be neglecting it anytime soon.
Well, D&D certainly has it's roots in wargaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_%28game%29
Couldn't be further from the truth. And that shouldn't have to be explained to YOU actually. lol. If you read any of the literature from cryptic they actually wanted this to BE a D&D experience online. Not a 'standard mmo with pvp' lol. Which is why all the work went into and will be going into the foundry where people can make quests tailored to just their gaming group if they like. It is literally a d&d medium in electronic format. I can tell by your comment you're actually not that familiar with D&D as the at-wills, encounters, dailies, classes, races are all straight from fourth edition. Did they have to change things because this isn't turn based? sure, but its darn close.
That said, pvp is thrown in for those who like it and there's no reason to remove extra functionality. However, I wouldn't want them spending their time there either, since this is not a pvp focused mmo (again, stated by cryptic). If you want a game that focuses on that balance and is a pvp oriented mmo, there are a select few that do that to the nth degree. But don't come on here spewing that this isn't d&d, because well 1. you're wrong and 2. you're gonna be REAL disappointed lol.
I had to lol.
You've literally refuted nothing of what I've said. As I said, this is a standard MMO within the DnD setting, so of course it would have the same races and classes and skill names and such. What this is not, is "DnD is electronic form". MMOs and Pen and Paper RPGs couldn't be more different. There's no emphasis on character interaction or development here. There's no character alignments or changes to the story depending on which action you take. This game is a MMO within the DnD setting, similar to how the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games were hack-n-slash dungeon crawlers within the DnD universe. Which is fine. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
What Cryptic wanted this game to be in irrelevant. What it is, is all that matters.
Yup! I was aware of that.
I was just wondering if anyone here had actually set up a format to do it with the "modern" incarnation of DnD. I think it could be relatively easily done, though it would take some work and perhaps even modification (though, that isnt exactly too obscure for some DMs in principle). Id be interested to see how they set it all up, etc. I doubt that many have done it, if any, simply because the common mindset is staunchly against fighting other players (other than the dastardly DM of course).
Oh well, thanks for the link anyway.
And what a lot of people perceive is apparently very different from what you are trying to tell us it is. LOL. But its ok, you can try to make it what YOU want, and we'll go on playing what it is. That seems fair to me.
They want to make money though so they need to cater to the PvP crowd to make them stay? But do the PvP crowd actually spend anything.
Personally I'm a bit annoyed that I *have* to PvP as it's the easiest way to get T1 epics. I don't enjoy it. I can't see why I would want to ever. I'm a DC and just not geared for it. 3000-5000 per piece and 350 glory for a fail (if I'm lucky - once I got 35 and I don't know why?). I'm almost always at the bottom of the table. All I feel like I can do is astral sheild or hallowed ground for my team mates and then try to tag the other side at least once with a Brand. Sometimes the other side just see me coming and jump on me despite anyone else.
It makes me want to stop playing.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
So I'm going to just say... no. That's dumb.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
2) There is no MMO or any other kind of game that can replace good old table top D&D. No DM and the AI is lacking
@ 2. I truly doubt they mean it as a replacement, because some of the elements of pen & paper can't be replicated. I think its meant to be a fun alternative. With being able to create your own npcs, your own story, your own locations and environments, you can really create adventures like you would for your pen and paper group. Definitely not the same, and the roleplaying is lessened, but still fun to see some of the creations you've done for them on paper come to life in here.
I'm against this since with PvP I earn free gold , without it I 'll actually have to farm gold lol .
But seriously its a very small part of the game, and some people really like it so I don't see a reason to nuke it. if needing to pvp for leet gear is the problem maybe they just need to make the non pvp gear more equivalent. maybe have more Leet gear available via crafting.
Though I do dislike the argument of well if its there I HAVE to use it so I think no one should have it is the same reason we cant scroll in/out in combat or let clerics target friends via portrait/hotkey and why we cant use our mouse to click icons unless we are in a "mode". One thing that this game has made very very clear. the reason certain things are the way they are is the devs like them that way. if they were talking about possibly adding it that would be one thing. but PVP is here it works relatively well and they have more planned so all this thread is gonna do is Troll.
If the developers took rewards out of PvP, I wouldn't. As it is, the only reason I do any PvP at all is astral diamonds from daily missions and it's much faster leveling than missions/quests. Take those two factors out, and I'd never set foot in another arena.
QFmotherfrakkingT.
EVERY MMO I've played(for the last fifteen years, no less) is just that. A mess. Go scour the internet. Visit every forum board of every MMO out there that has PvP in it. Read up. Then log into those games and hit the PvP arena and listen. Caustic. And when game developers try to balance things out to please the e-peen crowd that plays the most....they end up totally destroying PvE balance.
All the QQ'ing I see here about PvP is about the same as anywhere else out there. Nerf this, it's OP. Buff that, it's underpowered. OMG, do something about leechers. While I understand why Cryptic has put PvP into this game, (for extra added income! CASH!!)
I totally disagree with it.
PvP has a place. It's not in MMORPG's. FPSMMO, RTSMMO, sure. Whallop each other to your heart's content. Not sure what category LoL and other games like it place in...Action MMO? AMMO? ^_^, but they're just fine. Because all they have to worry about balancing is PvP.
It's when you try to mix the two that balance issues come to focus.
IF...and this is a VERY BIG if....Cryptic can keep game mechanics in PvE and PvP seperate and balance them out individually....great. But unless that happens...don't ruin one aspect to please the other. Regardless of which side you're balancing. Just don't mess it up for the other guy.....and I just don't see that happening.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Balance has more than one factor - classes are but one aspect.
To say that PvP has no place in MMORPGs is pretty borderline <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, if not fairly narrow minded.
I can understand that some people dont like PvP but the problem is that game developers keep putting it on top of PvE instead of building their game with it from the ground up and that it ends up affecting PvE. Dont understand why your so angry about it, people keep telling us that this is a free game and that you dont need to spend any money on it to play. Same thing applies to PvP, its there and your not forced to use it to play the game or to be competitive.
Its been proven time again that MMOs that dont have it end up losing a good portion of their player base and its why they delayed NW so that they could include PvP in it. Seriously if they didnt you would see even more crying, raging and people complaining that there is nothing to do at end-game. Companies just need to learn that its something they cant just put into their game a few months before releasing them and fix it later and rip PvE apart to balance it.
NOt a good idea imo
Heh our group cant wait to be charmed,dominated, confused. Let the player killing commence!
remove it so it doesn't have to be played.
i hate pvp.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Nobody is forcing you to. People buying end-game gear in the auction house has a bigger collective impact then 2 maps rewarding entry level end-game gear.
when you don't have many AD the fastest way to get gear is that stupid glory system.
yes i don't have a 'choice'. i could instead go into dungeons with bugger all gear and just be crappy that way for ages due to luck.
'choice' maybe not. but they make it like you have to.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
You're saying you don't have the 50k AD you need to get 4 purple pieces? Or can't run Cloak Tower/Cragmire? Even while in blues/greens, you can fit in 2 of those runs in 1 DD. Two DD's and you'll have 4 epic pieces and enough seals to get a fifth. Sell/use and you'll be adequately geared to pick up the pace.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Further, conflict is a key aspect to any MMO these days. The problem is, it's totally sandbox in NW -- by that I mean even pm groups don't come with much strat on these. Also, there's no point to it other than the standard capture the flag games which have just become the charred steak of PvP.
oh that sounds like a better deal i'll try that. everyone just seems to tell me 'just pvp' all the time. mind you my experience of delves has been a bit so so.
better than pvp at any rate.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.