I have never understand why so many people in the gaming community feel it is their place to trash talk others. Why can posters not respond respectfully to someone's opinion?
I am not really into PVP either, nepht. I probably will do some PVP in this though since it is group. I just never 1v1 people. There is too much of the "I'm so awesome in a video game (that proves nothing in real life" attitude. Also, everyone starts yelling "hacker!!" when someone wins.
Yes this happens often in PVP games, the funny thing about this one is that if that pesky mage teleports nine times in a row or the GF can block indefinitely etc etc they ARE hacking.
I had a similar experience in my group. The group was faced with a very tough choice. On one hand they could take the hard choice that would most likely spell a heroic death for everyone involved. On the surface it seemed to be suicide and they'd be putting their lives and success in the hands of those they've helped before. Still, it would not be easy and they were in a jam on how to successfully pull it off. Then there was the easy rode which would surely enable them to survive and succeed at the cost of thousands of innocent's lives. Two players were neutral on the decision made. The other two.. were at completely different ends. One didn't want to put innocent lives at risk, he wanted to put his faith in the people they've helped in the past just as they put their faith in the group.
He felt that it was their duty to try and if it meant dying then so be it. They'd die fighting well. The other player on the other hand was of the opinion that "They've done enough as is" for the world at large. They've done so much for the city, the people, and the world itself they were able to make at least one harsh choice. He pointed out the amount of lives saved would offset the amount of lives lost and that through their ensured survival they could do more for the world. He believed that he was making the most logical choice.
After a heated in character argument (it didn't spill over OOC this group knew each other well) his character decided he was going to do it with or without the approval of the group. Which resulted in the barbarian (the guy who wanted to save all lives if possible) beating said player's character to an inch of his life. Good example of pvp in D&D.
i was just about to say something like this, pvp has always been in d&d just if you wanted to, and i would be surprised if they have little tourneys at some gatherings for the pnp.
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zpakkaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
(sorry for the bad english XD)
ok reading this thread i think some things. 1) D&D don't need pvp (don't take phrases word by word ^^) when i play paper D&D i play the story of the DM, my story and i fight with my party in a lot of sessions so i do pvp also in the paper way of the game, 2) if D&D don't need a pvp why need so many people, i mean why don't create a new Neverwinter nigths in single player, so everyone can play the PvE side of the game and (as someone said) the dev don't waste time around useless things like AH, PvP, shop, class balance, etc; 3) if someone want to do only raids (i mean big dungeons like 25 people versus one boss) i really don't understand why can't play pvp, ok there are people that like the storylines andbig bad bosses or sparkling loots, or big cool mounts and other thigns but really why an mmo don't deserve a pvp side??? so many people all closed in istanced areas figthing the AI but fighting versus other players are bored or awful or a waste of time, 4) a cool PvP in a game is as fun as a cool PvE...
this is my opinion about the PvP here and in other MMO, an MMO need a fun PvE and a fun PvP, both of them balanced a gratifying with a lot of items, a lot of competion and a lot of options and possibilities, PvE and PvP...
To make a long story short, the elven bard really annoyed the human barbarian of the group. They had a "discusion" in the game envirement, and after that, the barbarian had a new pair of elven skin gloves. He thought it would give him resistance against ghoul touches.
Laughed so hard .Love bashing people's head especially if they "ask" for it lol.
OP:my second thoughts, as others mentioned it shouldn't have to bother you at all.I never understood why people wants to take away other people's joy when it doesn't affects them at all.Is it cause them some kind of twisted pleasure to see other people fustrated? I mean you are not forced to do PVP nor being punished or penalized if you are not participte, then why are you bother?Let others enjoy their playtime as they want and do your own playtime as you want but don't ruin others.Oh almost forgot, please give credit to the developer team i think they can decide what they should have to be prioritise,i'm pretty sure they can do their job.Thx for reading.
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eqballzzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't think you need to worry about them wasting time working on PVP instead of other things. Have you tried PVP? Believe me they aren't spending any time on it. They should change the name to "player vs. control wizard" or maybe just change it to the "player dying in mid air" game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
There's one battle type, two very simple maps, and very little time put into balancing- sorry OP, but I don't think Cryptic 'wasted' a whole lot of time on this feature.
And what a lot of people perceive is apparently very different from what you are trying to tell us it is. LOL. But its ok, you can try to make it what YOU want, and we'll go on playing what it is. That seems fair to me.
Perception has nothing to do with it. This is an MMO, similar to almost every other MMO out there. If this is an authentic DnD experience to you, then so to should all of them be. Slapping your hands over your ears and going "LALALALALA!" isn't going to change what this game is.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
And i belive that in PnP D&D is pvp not balanced at all.
my suggestion for fitting pvp in d&d is to make so you during pvp control a monster with abilities that not is related to the classes
perhaps a group of kobolds? attacking a village where goal is to get as much loot as possible to your safe place. And the people controlling one kobold each is free to attack and steal from other kobolds to.
Perception has nothing to do with it. This is an MMO, similar to almost every other MMO out there. If this is an authentic DnD experience to you, then so to should all of them be. Slapping your hands over your ears and going "LALALALALA!" isn't going to change what this game is.
Exactly, so why continue to do it?
If they go over the top to balance for PvP, which is the only thing that's going to make some people happy, then they are going to break PvE. For those that want to go "So what, I'm only here for PvP, so PvE doesn't matter", you're playing the wrong game. There are plenty of people that are only here for the PvE/D&D aspects of the game. D&D is what brought me here in the first place. I don't care about PvP one way or the other. I actually have PvPcentric games on this PC and if I'm feeling the need to PvP, I'll load them up. They were built from the ground up for PvP. One of them is even faction specific. I won't be co-signing any "PvP should be removed" threads on that forum, it was advertised to be PvPcentric, and should remain that way. I'm not really going to co-sign this thread for removal, but am going to take a "hard line" against balancing specifically for PvP.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Nah PVP needs to stay because no MMO in today's generation can survive without it. There's a few players out there who enjoy competing with one another, and they will just quit or not even bother with a PVP-less game.
But at the same time, PVP should not consume the game! Neverwinter is a PVE game! There's more PVE content than PVP, which is proof that the core gameplay is PVE! That also means Cryptic should never nerf a class in PVP which will also affect how the class is played in PVE!
For example, I always hear that CW and TR are overpowered in PVP! CW have too much CC and deal too much damage, and TR deal too much damage and are always hidden in stealth and can't be attacked! Well, tough luck because how can you nerf a CW's crowd control and a TR's stealth without breaking it in PVE?
Both those classes are extremely squishy without their high CC and stealth abilities! Nerf'em and Cryptic will also have to go back to the drawing board and redesign all the content so mobs and bosses deal less damage or else it will be near impossible to level up a CW and TR!
See the problem here? Should Cryptic break PVE to balance PVP? Or leave PVE as perfect as it is and just let PVP as it is even if some baddie players claim certain classes are broken?
So I shouldn't get to pvp because you don't like pvping? How about you realize how full of yourself you sound.
When the cold of winter comes starless night will cover day,
In the veiling of the sun we will walk in bitter rain.
But in dreams I can hear your name,
And in dreams we will meet again.
Its Dungeons and Dragons not LOL its all about adventuring as a team I dont even understand why PvP is in this game in the first place >.> The dev time used on PvP could be used to fix stuff like the AH and GWF.
Dont get me wrong I play things like Dota2 and TF2 I like a good player vs player fight now and then but I think its just wasted time here.
Of course this is just my opinion.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop speaking.
So I shouldn't get to pvp because you don't like pvping? How about you realize how full of yourself you sound.
I'm fine with PvP, just don't start calling for nerfs on classes to accommodate it. At it's core, this game isn't about PvP, it's just another system added to draw in a player base.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
PvP has an extremely important place in every MMO---balance.
Yes, I realize that in a PvE environment in many games DPS can do intense damage, healers can full heal with a flick of the wrist, and tanks can do borderline nothing and keep the damage away from the rest. The gameplay feels odd, though, and immersion immediately takes a dump.
A properly balanced class system in PvP, however, suddenly makes a game come alive. Tanks do enough damage to seem like viable fighters, balancing it with a survivability. DPS has survivability proportionate with their damage output and ability to control their surroundings. Healers earn a survivability that keeps them alive with significant attention, and their output is based upon balancing the multi person scenario they are in.
It's an extremely hard balance to pull off. WoW never got it right, as one big example, primarily because they put the cart in front of the horse---they inflated stats and excused it with "necessary for encounter creation" while not ensuring a proper ratio in PvP. This renders classes under and overpowered, alternating by patch cycle and shows itself in PvE as well.
It is healthy for a game to have a properly balanced PvP scenario. Now, PvP here is NOT well balanced, but it gives an area in which to see it, and it manifests itself in PvE very strongly. The cleric ward that causes players to want a two cleric five man group manhandles most PvP scenarios too. TR and CW delivering massive bursts with large amounts of evasive abilities show as excessive burst in PvP. GF and GWF control in PvP looks strong, but manifests itself strongly in items that don't function the same way in PvE environments target limits on knockdowns or immune mobs are big examples, as the way to beat a "tank" style character is to utilize these immunities or simply overwhelm their ability to control the situation. PvE encounters are designed strongly to use these items and as a result, these classes suffer there.
That's all mechanical stuff, though. The reality is that a great many of us simply won't play a game that doesn't have PvP. We just plain like it. In fact, I'd argue that the old DnD ruleset and DDO are actually far better games than this one, but the complete lack of PvP eventually leaves me without a time filler and as a result, I just don't stick with it for long durations.
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snorgelhopMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
If there was any evidence that we'd gain anything by them removing it, then I'd say sure. It's a worthless endeavor though to ask them to remove it. If you don't like it the best you can do is simply not play it (which is what I'm doing). The only dangerous thing to the enjoyability of others is when they start doing class balancing based on a niche activity (PVP). Just because a skill is OP vs a player it doesn't mean it is in PVE.
PvP is not part of DnD? I disagree. In the few times I tried the PnP I always attacked unknowing team members. Usually went something like....
DM: "Your adventture starts in a tavern..blah..blah..blahhhh"
Guy who has never had a girlfriend: "I want to get a prostitute. Tell me what she looks like, tell me what she wants to do to me??" <he would go on with the shrill of excitement in his voice.>
Me: "I would like to hit him with a bar stool"
Or they would catch me trying to take their ****. Either way PvP was inevitable.
Nah PVP needs to stay because no MMO in today's generation can survive without it. There's a few players out there who enjoy competing with one another, and they will just quit or not even bother with a PVP-less game.
Which, honestly, would be better. People interested in PvP should play games that are designed for & around that playstyle, that fully support it in a robust way. Just as people who are interested in PvE should play PvE-designed games. These half-and-half mixups are just asking for trouble - laughable attempts at balancing one side of the game screw up the other; design resources and focus are split to the detriment of the game as a whole; and the inevitable conflicts between players of the two different sides just lead to bad blood.
/shrug
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rodpalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
Agreed, PVP is quadruple garbage. Dont like anything about it. It needs to be drop of the hat anytime anyplace a PVP world. One on one or otherwise. So stale. Agreed its the worst part of the game.
Comments
Yes this happens often in PVP games, the funny thing about this one is that if that pesky mage teleports nine times in a row or the GF can block indefinitely etc etc they ARE hacking.
It's not always because peeps are butthurt.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
i was just about to say something like this, pvp has always been in d&d just if you wanted to, and i would be surprised if they have little tourneys at some gatherings for the pnp.
ok reading this thread i think some things. 1) D&D don't need pvp (don't take phrases word by word ^^) when i play paper D&D i play the story of the DM, my story and i fight with my party in a lot of sessions so i do pvp also in the paper way of the game, 2) if D&D don't need a pvp why need so many people, i mean why don't create a new Neverwinter nigths in single player, so everyone can play the PvE side of the game and (as someone said) the dev don't waste time around useless things like AH, PvP, shop, class balance, etc; 3) if someone want to do only raids (i mean big dungeons like 25 people versus one boss) i really don't understand why can't play pvp, ok there are people that like the storylines andbig bad bosses or sparkling loots, or big cool mounts and other thigns but really why an mmo don't deserve a pvp side??? so many people all closed in istanced areas figthing the AI but fighting versus other players are bored or awful or a waste of time, 4) a cool PvP in a game is as fun as a cool PvE...
this is my opinion about the PvP here and in other MMO, an MMO need a fun PvE and a fun PvP, both of them balanced a gratifying with a lot of items, a lot of competion and a lot of options and possibilities, PvE and PvP...
OP:my second thoughts, as others mentioned it shouldn't have to bother you at all.I never understood why people wants to take away other people's joy when it doesn't affects them at all.Is it cause them some kind of twisted pleasure to see other people fustrated? I mean you are not forced to do PVP nor being punished or penalized if you are not participte, then why are you bother?Let others enjoy their playtime as they want and do your own playtime as you want but don't ruin others.Oh almost forgot, please give credit to the developer team i think they can decide what they should have to be prioritise,i'm pretty sure they can do their job.Thx for reading.
Perception has nothing to do with it. This is an MMO, similar to almost every other MMO out there. If this is an authentic DnD experience to you, then so to should all of them be. Slapping your hands over your ears and going "LALALALALA!" isn't going to change what this game is.
And i belive that in PnP D&D is pvp not balanced at all.
my suggestion for fitting pvp in d&d is to make so you during pvp control a monster with abilities that not is related to the classes
perhaps a group of kobolds? attacking a village where goal is to get as much loot as possible to your safe place. And the people controlling one kobold each is free to attack and steal from other kobolds to.
Exactly, so why continue to do it?
If they go over the top to balance for PvP, which is the only thing that's going to make some people happy, then they are going to break PvE. For those that want to go "So what, I'm only here for PvP, so PvE doesn't matter", you're playing the wrong game. There are plenty of people that are only here for the PvE/D&D aspects of the game. D&D is what brought me here in the first place. I don't care about PvP one way or the other. I actually have PvPcentric games on this PC and if I'm feeling the need to PvP, I'll load them up. They were built from the ground up for PvP. One of them is even faction specific. I won't be co-signing any "PvP should be removed" threads on that forum, it was advertised to be PvPcentric, and should remain that way. I'm not really going to co-sign this thread for removal, but am going to take a "hard line" against balancing specifically for PvP.
But at the same time, PVP should not consume the game! Neverwinter is a PVE game! There's more PVE content than PVP, which is proof that the core gameplay is PVE! That also means Cryptic should never nerf a class in PVP which will also affect how the class is played in PVE!
For example, I always hear that CW and TR are overpowered in PVP! CW have too much CC and deal too much damage, and TR deal too much damage and are always hidden in stealth and can't be attacked! Well, tough luck because how can you nerf a CW's crowd control and a TR's stealth without breaking it in PVE?
Both those classes are extremely squishy without their high CC and stealth abilities! Nerf'em and Cryptic will also have to go back to the drawing board and redesign all the content so mobs and bosses deal less damage or else it will be near impossible to level up a CW and TR!
See the problem here? Should Cryptic break PVE to balance PVP? Or leave PVE as perfect as it is and just let PVP as it is even if some baddie players claim certain classes are broken?
In the veiling of the sun we will walk in bitter rain.
But in dreams I can hear your name,
And in dreams we will meet again.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop speaking.
I'm fine with PvP, just don't start calling for nerfs on classes to accommodate it. At it's core, this game isn't about PvP, it's just another system added to draw in a player base.
Yes, I realize that in a PvE environment in many games DPS can do intense damage, healers can full heal with a flick of the wrist, and tanks can do borderline nothing and keep the damage away from the rest. The gameplay feels odd, though, and immersion immediately takes a dump.
A properly balanced class system in PvP, however, suddenly makes a game come alive. Tanks do enough damage to seem like viable fighters, balancing it with a survivability. DPS has survivability proportionate with their damage output and ability to control their surroundings. Healers earn a survivability that keeps them alive with significant attention, and their output is based upon balancing the multi person scenario they are in.
It's an extremely hard balance to pull off. WoW never got it right, as one big example, primarily because they put the cart in front of the horse---they inflated stats and excused it with "necessary for encounter creation" while not ensuring a proper ratio in PvP. This renders classes under and overpowered, alternating by patch cycle and shows itself in PvE as well.
It is healthy for a game to have a properly balanced PvP scenario. Now, PvP here is NOT well balanced, but it gives an area in which to see it, and it manifests itself in PvE very strongly. The cleric ward that causes players to want a two cleric five man group manhandles most PvP scenarios too. TR and CW delivering massive bursts with large amounts of evasive abilities show as excessive burst in PvP. GF and GWF control in PvP looks strong, but manifests itself strongly in items that don't function the same way in PvE environments target limits on knockdowns or immune mobs are big examples, as the way to beat a "tank" style character is to utilize these immunities or simply overwhelm their ability to control the situation. PvE encounters are designed strongly to use these items and as a result, these classes suffer there.
That's all mechanical stuff, though. The reality is that a great many of us simply won't play a game that doesn't have PvP. We just plain like it. In fact, I'd argue that the old DnD ruleset and DDO are actually far better games than this one, but the complete lack of PvP eventually leaves me without a time filler and as a result, I just don't stick with it for long durations.
DM: "Your adventture starts in a tavern..blah..blah..blahhhh"
Guy who has never had a girlfriend: "I want to get a prostitute. Tell me what she looks like, tell me what she wants to do to me??" <he would go on with the shrill of excitement in his voice.>
Me: "I would like to hit him with a bar stool"
Or they would catch me trying to take their ****. Either way PvP was inevitable.
Which, honestly, would be better. People interested in PvP should play games that are designed for & around that playstyle, that fully support it in a robust way. Just as people who are interested in PvE should play PvE-designed games. These half-and-half mixups are just asking for trouble - laughable attempts at balancing one side of the game screw up the other; design resources and focus are split to the detriment of the game as a whole; and the inevitable conflicts between players of the two different sides just lead to bad blood.
/shrug
Another person yet has no idea what they are talking about.