Cryptic.. you really got to do something about GWF

g1king · May 2013

people are not accepting me to join them to do some dungeons just becouse im a GWF..
I Mean seriously cryptic you really gotta do something about this issue
You need to balance characters in this game, ALL I Need from you is to fix this and make us (GWF's) easy to get in dungeons with people.

Thank you.

sincerely
-G1king

snugglemancer · May 2013

Yeah well, I say we make our own parties! With blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the parties and blackjack!

pzzdachu · May 2013

No no... you wanna party with Hookers!

chronomancer · May 2013

First you gotta bring the booze/ale to join the party

nepht · May 2013

Yeah ive seen this . Been on many a team where the others have kicked some random GWF. GWF needs fixed some players would like to play as knights in shining armor it is DnD after all.

mconosrep · May 2013

I would be careful asking for a change to the GWF. I thought that after the great nerf some Dev said he thought the GWF was still too STRONG.......

biffsmackwell · May 2013

mconosrep wrote: »

I would be careful asking for a change to the GWF. I thought that after the great nerf some Dev said he thought the GWF was still too STRONG.......

That's... no. At least while leveling up, they're not good at anything. Yes they can AoE, but it's one hand on the sword and one hand on your potions. They take too much damage and do too little damage.

syl123vain · May 2013

I got some tips to fix this game abit.

Rogues: Nerf single target damage. Buff Aoe dmg -> Give them 1-2 def abilites for pvp
CW: Nerf cc and give them a shield buff to absorb alittle more dmg and rest is fine for pve
GWF: needs re-scaling from lvl 1-30 and rest is okey
GF: everything is fine tbh maybe abit more dmg
Clerics: Fix Threat and they are good enough

mconosrep · May 2013

biffsmackwell wrote: »

That's... no. At least while leveling up, they're not good at anything. Yes they can AoE, but it's one hand on the sword and one hand on your potions. They take too much damage and do too little damage.

Note that I never said that the Dev was right (ha-ha), just that I seem to remember they still thought that AFTER the nerf. Maybe they have changed their minds, maybe not......

syl123vain · May 2013

shahualing wrote: »

Lol Syl...lowest common denominator much? Why not buff classes instead of nerf others?

Because rogues are alrdy over the top got crited for 40k+ on my fully pvp geared char and Cws cc is over the top .. just sayin mate they need to re think some stuff

syl123vain · May 2013

shahualing wrote: »

Rogues are supposed to do lots of single target damage, it's what they do.

Wizards are supposed to control things, it's what they do. It's even in the freaking name.

Both classes are fine in my eyes, GWF and GF just need to be brought in line and Cleric's threat needs to be addressed.

Well okey i can see what u mean but still .. they need to re-scale gwf in lvl 1-30+ then GF need abit of a dmg buff/threat buff and cleric threat nerf

xumina · May 2013

syl123vain wrote: »

I got some tips to fix this game abit.

Rogues: Nerf single target damage. Buff Aoe dmg -> Give them 1-2 def abilites for pvp
CW: Nerf cc and give them a shield buff to absorb alittle more dmg and rest is fine for pve
GWF: needs re-scaling from lvl 1-30 and rest is okey
GF: everything is fine tbh maybe abit more dmg
Clerics: Fix Threat and they are good enough

This applies to those who whine about their class... it is very easy to whine or give sweeping suggestions about what to do for your class... what about the details????

TR = How much damage reduction are you talking about for TR? How would they stand in terms of damage comparison with the other class of the same optimized level of equipment and enchantments. Define 1-2 def abilities???

CW = What CC need nerf and by how much?? How would the nerf CC do in practical PVE and PVP? Are you implying 2 different sets of CC effect stats, one for pvp and the other for pve?? How would the CC effect stack in terms of solo play and group play?? CW already have a shield buff.. how much damage absorption are we talking about? What kind of absorption, percentage of damage or fix damage absorption? How would it effect other class??

GWF : Define re-scaling. What needs re-scale? How much would the re-scalling be? If it's about damage, how much damage increase and how would they stand in terms of damage with other class, considering GWF is a hybrid class which simply means they are an inbetweener and therefore cannot have higher damage then one class or higher def then the other or both.

GF : How much damage? How would they stand in terms of damage comparison with the other class of the same optimized level of equipment and enchantments.

Cleric : What is the appropriate weightage of agro taken for each individual skill casted? How much agro are you talking about for short term and long term casting?

Answer all of the above and I assure you, developer will take notice. Giving generalized statements such as "CW need more def" can be done by a 3 year old kid. Do not tell me that it is the developer's job to find out... in the developer's eyes... everything is almost balanced... any imbalance are minute and not so significant. It is the player's job to come up with details on how the developer is wrong in the assumption of class being balance.

mego9500 · May 2013

I agree that GWF could have a looking into.

But about being kicked from dungeons? I've never had that happen to me. Granted I'm a 9k GS GWF, thats still not even very high and I've never been kicked/asked to leave from any dungeon I've played in. If you've got good knowledge about GWF, he can be very rewarding. But comparatively, to the other classes currently in the game, he takes alot more to do things with.

g1king · May 2013

Bump
Need a staff post

tenkuro · May 2013

GWF are fine except that they do not have a dodge. They need to give GWF a dodge like all the other classes except GF.

I play both a TR and GWF. I do fine on my GWF but much better on my TR because of the dodge. My GWF can kill just as fast as my TR. I've also died many times in 1 v 1 to GWF. In team fights, they are annoying as hell because the good ones don't die to my Shocking Executioner -> Lashing Blade combo so I save that combo for the CW or other TR.

I guarantee you that giving GWF same dodge as Rogues, Clerics and CW = Fixes all problems in pvp.

As for PVE, they need to give GWF a PVE only buff that doubles their damage. If they added this buff to work in PVP, it would make GWF too powerful.

If they did this, I would stop playing my TR and go back to my GWF

jdrive · May 2013

I have to agree that GWF needs a buff, or some tweaking...anything. Especially low level. I was torn between rolling rogue and GWF for my main character. I like being melee DPS. I went rogue. Here's the "Damage Dealt" results from my last Storming the Keep skirmish, which had one of each class.

Rogue - 459k
Wizard - 266k
GWF - 165K
GF - 153k
Cleric - 110k

I did more damage than slots 2 & 3 combined. I know I'm above average for my class. I haven't had another rogue top my damage dealt since I started keeping track, including ones that were several levels above me. Even so, something is broken in those numbers. Either I'm going to be nerfed into oblivion, or someone else needs a hefty buff or power curve adjustment.

(Please don't nerf me.)

edit: I don't PvP, so this is from a PvE perspective only.

xumina · May 2013

jdrive wrote: »

I have to agree that GWF needs a buff, or some tweaking...anything. Especially low level. I was torn between rolling rogue and GWF for my main character. I like being melee DPS. I went rogue. Here's the "Damage Dealt" results from my last Storming the Keep skirmish, which had one of each class.

Rogue - 459k
Wizard - 266k
GWF - 165K
GF - 153k
Cleric - 110k

I did more damage than slots 2 & 3 combined. I know I'm above average for my class. I haven't had another rogue top my damage dealt since I started keeping track, including ones that were several levels above me. Even so, something is broken in those numbers. Either I'm going to be nerfed into oblivion, or someone else needs a hefty buff or power curve adjustment.

(Please don't nerf me.)

edit: I don't PvP, so this is from a PvE perspective only.

Seems about right from my perspective... Rogues are the main damage dealers in NW, so you are right to be at the top of the chart. The CW I would assume it to be dps spec either sudden storm build or shield+arcane spam build, because frankly pure CC spec CW will never outdamage GWF simply because icy terrain being our CC aoe skill is insignificant in terms of damage. GWF should out damage GF considering they do aoe damage... judging from your example, I would say that this GWF is a single damage type GWF =.="... GF and cleric.. need I say more...

iamrune · May 2013

I'll just leave this here.

iamrune wrote: »

I've been thinking about this for awhile, and I think I've put together a few separate factors that all added together make Great Weapon fighters feel so... fragile.

First;
Taking damage to gain points toward Unstoppable means the class is taking damage, when every other class in the game is rewarded for avoiding it. GFs avoid damage via Blocking strategically, the other three through Dodge and dodge variants. So, just to get any use out of my class based special power, I have to take damage even if I don't really want to.

Second;
Those other class defense abilities, Blocking and the Dodge variants, all come with "Invincibility", Blocking takes all damage the Guardian Fighter would take in the characters place, so in a way it's almost like a second health bar to tend too, but the GF gets abilities practically built in just to help maintain it. Dodge [and the Dodge variants] all come with built in Invincibility frames, so even if a player is "Barely" dodging out of an aoe, he'll often take zero damage when he slides, teleports or rolls out.

Sprint has not only no frames of invincibility, it doesn't even feature any bonus damage mitigation at all. So, it's a pretty bad trade off to have a "Somewhat more situationally useful" sprint for moving in and out of combat, because the loss of damage prevention adds up to a lot of additional damage being taken.

Third;
And finally, the loss of the heal on pop effect from Unstoppable makes it a pretty weak special class ability. Ok, I break out of any CC, and am briefly immune to CC, take a bit less damage for a few seconds, and my at-wills all activate faster. The extra speed on the At-wills is counterbalanced by a debuff to At wills damage though.

The best use of unstoppable seems to be using the immunity to Crowd Control and extra resistance to run around and survive a few moments longer when getting the points needed to use unstoppable at all left you half dead already. I'm honestly no longer sure why Unstoppable is supposed to be something we want to build up when I look at it's effects on paper.

In Alpha, when popping Unstoppable healed you, this worked and made sense, if the heal itself might have been too strong. I'd have cut it's power and made it a HOT instead of all at once, myself.. like a DOT that lasted as long as the Unstoppable was up, perhaps. Removing it as was done so far makes the class feel .. fragile.

In any event, I think it's not any one of these three issues holding back the GWF class, it's all of them together. GFs have much better self healing options than GWFs do, and that certainly doesn't feel right either, since we are capped to using Scale armor with it's 50% Deflection value.

It almost feels like the only viable GWF build at the moment, and only then at high level, is one that emphasizes Crits for damage and Defense and Deflect for aiding with damage reduction.. and we'll still be chugging potions harder than any other class in the game doing that.

edge1986 · May 2013

Do what I did, I re-rolled to a wiz and i'm having a blast!

xumina · May 2013

edge1986 wrote: »

Do what I did, I re-rolled to a wiz and i'm having a blast!

Wait till you reach sept....

tenkuro · May 2013

Again. just give GWF a buff that only works on mobs that gives them double damage. Done.

teepussi · May 2013

Been playing alt lately, but i found it funny using dungeon finder to end up 3-4 GWF groups, myself included as one. I know theres been cases where you would get 4x TR too, but if you lack organised group, as GWF it seems you get to be viewed a bit as outcast. Ofc some look from zone chat GWF for aoe tanking for example. Metas change overtime, while still agree GWF definately needs a bit push. As currently i guess optimal way to get as accepted GWF is to be some sort of aoe tank that soaks and dish dmg to trash adds. So that limits the spec / gear choices a lot.

g1king · May 2013

Bump
Need a staff post here...

syl123vain · May 2013

teepussi wrote: »

Been playing alt lately, but i found it funny using dungeon finder to end up 3-4 GWF groups, myself included as one. I know theres been cases where you would get 4x TR too, but if you lack organised group, as GWF it seems you get to be viewed a bit as outcast. Ofc some look from zone chat GWF for aoe tanking for example. Metas change overtime, while still agree GWF definately needs a bit push. As currently i guess optimal way to get as accepted GWF is to be some sort of aoe tank that soaks and dish dmg to trash adds. So that limits the spec / gear choices a lot.

True im leveling a GWF aswell right im lvl 49 and i got tired off it around lvl 25 or smthing got abit better after lvl 30 and 40 but still it was a pain ebfore that

damatsu · May 2013

g1king wrote: »

people are not accepting me to join them to do some dungeons just becouse im a GWF..
I Mean seriously cryptic you really gotta do something about this issue
You need to balance characters in this game, ALL I Need from you is to fix this and make us (GWF's) easy to get in dungeons with people.

Thank you.

sincerely
-G1king

only 2 problems w/ GWF its abilities are split too much between dps/tank and its evasion mechanism is horrible who cares if it is a fast dash u still take massive dmg from monster attacks.

xumina · May 2013

damatsu wrote: »

only 2 problems w/ GWF its abilities are split too much between dps/tank and its evasion mechanism is horrible who cares if it is a fast dash u still take massive dmg from monster attacks.

That's why you are a hybrid class? neither good nor bad in either damage or tank

cichard · May 2013

nothing wrong with GWF you are a Add killing machine your not ment to be top dps just bursty enough to kill adds in the dungeon. I love GWF in my group but we dont run the 2 clerics bs

judicas · May 2013

xumina wrote: »

That's why you are a hybrid class? neither good nor bad in either damage or tank

actually at the moment we are horrible in damage and pathetic in tank... GWF is supposed to be the aoe class, we sacrifice range , dodge, high single target... and yet what we get in return is a wet noodle. I understand a TR should outdamage the hell out of me single target, but if the group is fighting 10 mobs how is the SINGLE target TR x4 the damage of the AOE person? Im not asking for a nerf to TR, i believe they should be high damage but they should not outparse me when facing alot of mobs period. Now for the controll wizard... they have range... alot more dps... knockback to keep things range, 3 ports to get away, range, and they can lock stuff down.... they have a tab ability that does more damage while ours we get to half hp to use... and ohh yeah... RANGE.

cichard · May 2013

the reason why they out dps you single target is because when their are no adds..... your st dps sucks. so they go past you. The 10s woth of aoe each wave off adds in the instances inst gonna put you higher then a rogue critting for 30k every Duelist fury.

tomasvet · May 2013

theres absolutely nothing wrong with gwf, they do more damage than a rogue in aoe and less in single target. they come out pretty much the same after dungeons. you just have to do it right.

however the concern right now should be what tools in terms of nondmg the gwf brings, atm the meta of this game is dominated by 2x clerics and cws ccing everything. you should nerf the other classes a bit rather than boosting gwf because they really dont need it.

or if you want the easy path just give the gwfs some aoe stun/daze/disarm

nerf the astral shield and therell be more gwfs

judicas · May 2013

maybe you didnt understand what i said... in a group fight of 10+ mobs the TR are outdamaging an AOE GWF by 4x the damage... during that time... not during single target... during single target its 10-15x as much

Cryptic.. you really got to do something about GWF

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