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crafting system

millacanomillacano Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 21 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
which ever dev or dev team came up with this kind of crafting system should be just punched.

it doesn;t scale with your leveling .. it takes way too long .. i mean 18 hrs to get another crafter guy. no bonuses to lower that nothing .

and the equipment would be ok if it were to scale to your leveling ..

18 hours to level that's a fair few levels there and by then the guy you were trying to get makes junk equipment that's not sell-able due to drops being better and the fact that you could only craft for your class .. there's not much that's sell-able except pants and shirts .. everything else is junk until end of crafting.

i like crafting in games, i like gathering resources .. but this system is just too slow and quite bothersome .. extremely bothersome.

i hope soon they actually change this farce of a crafting system .

/rant over
Post edited by millacano on
"I don't care What Spock said Han shot first"
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Comments

  • tomsctomsc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It is a truly dreadful crafting system, with little skill, effort or thought involved.

    But hey Star Wars got away with it.

    For me it was summed up on a forum when somone said 'yeah great we need more of this, a crafting system for people who don't like crafting' *facepalm*

    Crafting was better when it took time effort an in some games, skill. (Vangaurd for me had hands down the best crafting I've personally played) Now as per usual everyone is 'entitled' to have a high level crafter with no effort so no-one provides a decent crafting system that you can 'get your teeth into' this kinda system is the death of crafting in MMO's :(
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's not very good, I agree. Hopefully it will evolve as time goes by.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's basically one of those Facebook/Flash-style "time management" games, complete with the option to pay $ (well, AD) to speed projects up.

    Interesting cross-game idea, but I'm not sure it really works out in the end. Especially with general character leveling being so fast.
  • muzrub333muzrub333 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Agree, worst system I have even encountered in an MMO. Crafting made for people who hate to craft is how it seems; and a big kick in the gonads for those who like crafting. But, like so many addicts, I still do it even though I hate it, and myself for it.
  • nornsavantnornsavant Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Eventually some game will put together enough neurons to offer both, a hands on crafting system that immerses the player in the act of the craft and a less invasive version wherein one may craft in apathy.
  • panthro8panthro8 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 66
    edited May 2013
    u can speed it up with either ad or assets such as master tailor etc
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I personally think the crafting is genius. It lacks one thing: weapon crafting, which is a big issue for me.
    But think about it: you are a hero, not a blacksmith. It takes a good smith *months* to make a suit of armor, its slow and hard work etc. The crafting then makes sense: you hire the work out to the professionals and pay them with the loot from your heroic deeds.

    That said, its slow BUT its background. Unlike other mmos where you spend 10 hours gathering copper and tin, 2 hours smelting that into bronze, and another hour making that into garbage axes to sell to a vendor.... you tell your hireling what to do and it happens in the background as you play the actual game.

    Also the parallel effect is huge. At level 1, yes, its dull to spend 18 hours to get 1 worker. But good help is hard to find, you know? By level 30, you have 4 slots going in parallel though. 2 iterations of that gathers enough ore/skins/whatevers to do a "mass whatever", getting xp. That rolls out and you burn out making 4 sets of armor or whatever. Xp begins to come in fast and furious when you are making 4 items at a time for 200 xp each...!!!

    The problem is not the slowness of crafting so much as the rapid level up of characters. If you play a lot every day, you will indeed be unable to make your own armor. This same problem exists in every other MMO too, though. You either stop leveling up and focus on crafting, or you get too far ahead of your production ability. In the other games, that means gathering ore instead of leveling up.... BORING. Here, it means taking a break from active play to go outside or catch up on tv or something while your hirelings grind for you. WIN!

    The crafting system is not perfect, but I like it a LOT better than the grind method of classic MMOs.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't enjoy watching a progress bar slide across my screen 400 times in a half hour while my character makes twenty seven Widgets of Justice and combines them into Armor of Whogivesacrap in order to level up to the point where I can make the (usually) one useful item you can get from that branch. Luckily, if that's what you like, there are a lot of titles offering that, or similar systems. As in, almost all of them.

    I much prefer this style, though it is clear that when compared to Cryptic's other titles, Neverwinter's profession system is unfinished.
  • dobies4lifedobies4life Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    " In the other games, that means gathering ore instead of leveling up.... BORING. Here, it means taking a break from active play to go outside or catch up on tv or something while your hirelings grind for you. WIN!"

    ^^^ Problem with gamers today^^^

    I want it but I cant be bothered with earning it. Next you will want the game to play itself for you as well.
  • chaddiwickerchaddiwicker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Highly dislike the "slave" system. Most boring and least useful crafting system of any game I've played. I never crafted when I played the pen and paper game so I'm not sure crafting is necessary in a D&D game, but I've become accustomed to it in other games and want to have an enjoyable version here.
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    " In the other games, that means gathering ore instead of leveling up.... BORING. Here, it means taking a break from active play to go outside or catch up on tv or something while your hirelings grind for you. WIN!"

    ^^^ Problem with gamers today^^^

    I want it but I cant be bothered with earning it. Next you will want the game to play itself for you as well.

    Earning something is fine. But there is NO virtue in doing the same thing over and over again for 1000 hours of game time to "earn" something. That is idiotic. Send me on a quest to gather materials to make an epic weapon? Awesome, earned and fun, if you want me to earn it, give me THAT system.

    But don't try to tell me I have to make 50k bronze swords before I can figure out how to do the EXACT SAME THING with crapsteel, then steel, and then again with dorfsteel, and then again with elfsteel, and one more time with mithril, and maybe again with adamantium, and yet again with...... is my character such a moron he cant figure out from making a couple of an item how to do the exact same process with a different metal?
  • braxzanabraxzana Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Say what you will about its flaws (and there were many), but I still fondly remember Everquest I's crafting system. I was quite the chef at one point, trekking to the snowcapped mountains to hunt Mammoth for their meat, then going elsewhere to get eggs to make the dough to make the pie crusts to make my delicious mammoth meat pies (insane stat bonuses but they weighed like five pounds each!)....

    THIS crafting system does seem practically designed/engineered to be run as an afterthought on your cellphone when you have some spare time at work. It's not a part of the GAME at all, really. Which is unfortunate.
  • labbblabbb Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Sorry but pre-CU SWG crafting was just too good . Crafting dependent on player skill , well the masses get upset . And then they cry that the ' greedy crafters ' make all the money . Since then every game has been everyone makes the exact same thing . Sad really .
    I am hoping repopulation does it old school .
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    millacano wrote: »
    which ever dev or dev team came up with this kind of crafting system should be just punched.

    I like that. I'm sure the devs mean well and I'm sure most work their asses off but I often feel like punching one lol. and I agree the crafting is a dumbed down joke timesink in this game, no thought needed just time and supplies :p
  • thetravelingboythetravelingboy Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm enjoying it, but only because I'm playing pretty casual with this game.

    I just know when I start getting into armor/weapon crafting (only doing leadership right now) I'll probably have the same complaints as everyone else since it doesn't scale to level, though.
  • wrenaqwrenaq Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I didn't bother at all with my first character but my second Iam a Tailor and Iam enjoying it, I know you can't really make anything useful but hopefully they will put some time in to refine it.
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wrenaq wrote: »
    I didn't bother at all with my first character but my second Iam a Tailor and Iam enjoying it, I know you can't really make anything useful but hopefully they will put some time in to refine it.

    You can make blue quality gear throughout your mid levels and purple quality at higher levels. With the boss exploits being removed, the cheap gear will dry up & the crafted may be of use to many players. A lot of the gear farmers can't actually DO the boss fights without the exploits..... I predict the epic crafted stuff will be of *some* use in time.
  • clansman2013clansman2013 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    labbb wrote: »
    Sorry but pre-CU SWG crafting was just too good

    IMO, by far the best crafting system I have ever seen in any MMO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I never crafted when I played the pen and paper game so I'm not sure crafting is necessary in a D&D game

    Crafting in Pen and Paper, generally, takes no time and I've never seen anyone role play or design rules for making leather shoes. Because it's boring. It's only included in MMOs as a time sink, as far as I can tell.

    I recently 'crafted' in a 4e tabletop game. Here's a transcript.

    Me: I'd like to make this item. The PHB says it's worth this much, and I have this much in residuum.
    DM: OK.

    Now, if this were something epic or extraordinary, we might role play through it, or even have a grand quest to retrieve the materials, etc. For an example of crafting that isn't <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and is relevant to Forgotten Realms and the fantasy genre in general, check out the passage in which Bruenor makes Aegis Fang in Chapter 11 of "The Crystal Shard." Here's an excerpt:

    Bruenor needed no model for the first carvings; they were symbols etched into his heart and soul.
    Solemnly, he inscribed the hammer and anvil of Moradin the Soulforger on the side of one of the
    warhammer's heads, and the crossed axes of Clanggedon, the dwarven God of Battle, across from the first
    on the side of the other head. Then he took the silver scroll tube and gently removed its diamond cap. He
    sighed in relief when he saw that the parchment inside had survived the decades. Wiping the oily sweat
    from his hands, he removed the scroll and slowly unrolled it, laying it on the flat of the anvil. At first, the
    page seemed blank, but gradually the rays of the full moon coaxed its symbols, the secret runes of power,
    to appear.


    Someone mentioned EQ1, and I fondly remember questing for by Burning Rapier back in the day... But that's not crafting, that's a grand quest.

    Crafting in MMOs almost seems like code for "Boring work, like what many of us are paid to do in real life." If it's got to be that way (for whatever reason), the least they can do is make sure I don't have to stare at my screen the entire time I'm waiting for Crafted Armor of Suck #432 finishes its path into mediocrity.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    noroblad wrote: »
    You can make blue quality gear throughout your mid levels and purple quality at higher levels. With the boss exploits being removed, the cheap gear will dry up & the crafted may be of use to many players. A lot of the gear farmers can't actually DO the boss fights without the exploits..... I predict the epic crafted stuff will be of *some* use in time.

    except that there is nothing hard about leveling crafting so all will make the stuff when/if it's ever worthwhile. crafting just takes time, no thought as it is currently anyway, I base that on my having maxed all the different crafts..
  • mic281mic281 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    labbb wrote: »
    Sorry but pre-CU SWG crafting was just too good . Crafting dependent on player skill , well the masses get upset . And then they cry that the ' greedy crafters ' make all the money . Since then every game has been everyone makes the exact same thing . Sad really .
    I am hoping repopulation does it old school .

    I was going to point out the same thing. In SWG if you really wanted to be a great craftsman, then you had to sacrifice combat skills. It made sense. If you wanted to dedicate your time to making things then you wouldn't be the best adventurer.

    You could also experiment with different materials in that game. There was not just a set amount and type of items. You could substitute like items and make thing of better quality. You also had to find the best places to drop your harvesters.

    People could do nothing but craft and still have a fulfilling experience. Unlike other games that make you increase your combat level in order to increase you abilities in crafting.

    In SWG crafting was a class, not just a side job everyone could do.
  • labbblabbb Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rakeleer wrote: »
    Crafting in MMOs almost seems like code for "Boring work, like what many of us are paid to do in real life." If it's got to be that way (for whatever reason), the least they can do is make sure I don't have to stare at my screen the entire time I'm waiting for Crafted Armor of Suck #432 finishes its path into mediocrity.

    Because back in the day , we had real crafting . materials mattered . crafting skill mattered . more experimental lines they you could hope to max . Thus forcing people to make different end result items . It was the glorious days of crafters ! But unfortunately it seemed all the rich people in the game ended up being the best crafters . Soon the masses started getting mad . Saying a player driven economy was bad . That all crafters were price gouging greedy jerks . And why should they have to play the game for an hour to get the credits to buy a new suit of armor . When it seemed crafters just turned out all the armor they wanted . The crying got intense . Then they started saying ' its to hard ' when they tried to craft . And blaming the current crafters for holding them back . I did not start as a crafter . heck it was way after the first year before I even thought about it . But I still became a 12 point weaponsmith and filled the radiant server with [ImpCo] weapons . It could be done . But people are lazy . So Sony dumbed down crafting . everyone made the same stuff . No difference between what I crafted and what you crafted . And it has been that way ever since . Any game where all the crafted stuff is the same , is not true crafting .
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mic281 wrote: »
    I was going to point out the same thing. In SWG if you really wanted to be a great craftsman, then you had to sacrifice combat skills. It made sense. If you wanted to dedicate your time to making things then you wouldn't be the best adventurer.

    You could also experiment with different materials in that game. There was not just a set amount and type of items. You could substitute like items and make thing of better quality. You also had to find the best places to drop your harvesters.

    People could do nothing but craft and still have a fulfilling experience. Unlike other games that make you increase your combat level in order to increase you abilities in crafting.

    In SWG crafting was a class, not just a side job everyone could do.

    that's how was all the way back in UO too. If you want to excel at one thing you should have to sacrifice something else. Not that way here though and I don't see that changing.
  • cookjkcookjk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 91
    edited May 2013
    I am crafting blues for my level 50 just fine. Just spend less time leveling since you level so **** fast in this game. They need to turn it down make it more D&D leveling speeds.

    Hell you level to fast just from crafting.
  • auferoaufero Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Given the (fast) speed of character leveling and the (incredibly slow) speed of tradeskill leveling, there are two useful recipes for each (non-leadership) tradeskill: shirts and pants.

    If you're okay with spending weeks micromanaging your hirelings for a minor stat boost in the endgame and the chance to eventually make some AD selling those things to other players (and let's face it, if you're an MMO crafter you're probably okay with that) crafting is worthwhile.
  • dobies4lifedobies4life Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    When it comes down to it, games are about challenges. Todays games have no challenge. Getting to max level used to mean something. High end crafting used to mean something. High end gear used to mean something. Long winded epic quests used to mean something. Now with the games they make, everyone is the same. Everyone can do everything easily. If you havent played the older games, you really have no clue what im talking about. A week to get to max level is not an investment. Push button crafting is not an investment. I dumped EQ when WoW came out. Boy was I disappointed in 2 months being top geared. Factions maxed, crafting maxed, and having nothing to do but farm gold.

    Games didnt used to have minimaps,let alone maps. We had to travel by terrain features or zone walls. Untill we found eqatlas and Zam, the game was a true exploration.
    Crafting used to have failure rates. Poof its gone!
    Factions dictated who you could quest from, and who would outright attack you.
    Getting top gear used to mean organizing people, not we have 25 or less and lets zerg this.
    Games used to have a social environment. Fast paced combat pretty much killed that.
    Games used to have a penalty for dying. We are talking harsh penalties. exp loss and corpse runs. The game was more exciting when there was a fear of death.
    Games used to make you travel. Even teleporting would only get you so far.

    The causual/instant gratification gamers have dumbed down games to the point nothing is challenging.
  • jaelithejaelithe Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 99
    edited May 2013
    For those that want a nice hands-on crafting system that involves the player every step of the way there is a one word answer - Vanguard. It is also diametrically opposite to this game in its abhorance of instances and reliance on open world large universe gaming. But a horrific launch and almost total lack of support from SoE until the last year kept it out of mainstream attention.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    When it comes down to it, games are about challenges. Todays games have no challenge. Getting to max level used to mean something. High end crafting used to mean something. High end gear used to mean something. Long winded epic quests used to mean something. Now with the games they make, everyone is the same. Everyone can do everything easily. If you havent played the older games, you really have no clue what im talking about. A week to get to max level is not an investment. Push button crafting is not an investment. I dumped EQ when WoW came out. Boy was I disappointed in 2 months being top geared. Factions maxed, crafting maxed, and having nothing to do but farm gold.

    Games didnt used to have minimaps,let alone maps. We had to travel by terrain features or zone walls. Untill we found eqatlas and Zam, the game was a true exploration.
    Crafting used to have failure rates. Poof its gone!
    Factions dictated who you could quest from, and who would outright attack you.
    Getting top gear used to mean organizing people, not we have 25 or less and lets zerg this.
    Games used to have a social environment. Fast paced combat pretty much killed that.
    Games used to have a penalty for dying. We are talking harsh penalties. exp loss and corpse runs. The game was more exciting when there was a fear of death.
    Games used to make you travel. Even teleporting would only get you so far.

    The causual/instant gratification gamers have dumbed down games to the point nothing is challenging.

    I agree 100% with your post and miss that type of game experience.
  • dobies4lifedobies4life Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I played Vanguard at launch. got to 30/30. Loved the crafting system. However the game was a buggy piece of garbage.
  • mic281mic281 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    jaelithe wrote: »
    For those that want a nice hands-on crafting system that involves the player every step of the way there is a one word answer - Vanguard. It is also diametrically opposite to this game in its abhorance of instances and reliance on open world large universe gaming. But a horrific launch and almost total lack of support from SoE until the last year kept it out of mainstream attention.

    I played that horrific launch. My buddy bought the game and gave me the friend pass. I like the amount of races and classes. But it was completely unplayable. I never logged back in. SoE lost me with one train wreck after another. First the SWG CU and then the NGE. After that they tried to WoW'ize EQ2 so often that it seemed like every time I logged in I had new skills and the armor I was wearing was useless because my character was no longer proficient.

    I may look into Vanguard again. I recently DL'ed Rift. Trying to find another game to play while I wait for this one to balance out. Defiance is pretty fun but I need my medieval type game to play as well.
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