I've seen games out for years that still call themselves beta, so beta they are.
I've received emails from people saying they're a persian prince, desperate to invest millions in europe through my bank account... so persian princes they are.
first, how is PWE having the game marked as Live speculation? That is how they have it, nothing speculated. To answer your question now, yes if they announced a full wipe then I would concede that it is truly beta as that is the only possible defense that they would have to the class action lawsuits that would hit them. That being said, every, that is EVERY, dev that posts on these forums has said that there will under no circumstance be a character wipe. Yes that then adds to my "speculation" that this is not beta as it should to anyone with any intelligence on these forums. Somehow a large number of people seem to want to be able to say it's beta though. Maybe for the same reasons that Cryptic wants these believer to keep it up, maybe because they need that so that they don't have to admit to themselves that this game that they had so much faith in being the best MMO ever, just isn't all that after all, that's just more speculation on my part though.
Well, it is nice that you find such wonderful absolutes in life. Absolutes are the fodder of delusions and tomfoolery. In the real world we know that words mean nothing, only actions. Even if every dev said that there will not be a wipe it means nothing if the survival of the game demands that they do one. Circumstances will determine actions and actions will determine reality. Words mean little.
If you really want to get technical...(I did a little reading). Technically...this game is not in Beta, but it's not live either. It's a "Release Candidate". In short, the code is "complete" in terms of content, but it's not perfected in such a way that Cryptic/PWE wish it to be released as "Live".
Trust me, I know the PWE site says it's Live. I posted a screenshot of that several weeks ago during the early stages of the "Live v Open Beta" debate.
I dont know why this topic is always so hot on this board.
It doesnt matter whether you call it an Open Beta or a Live launch, because in the eyes of general gaming public this game has been released. People have played it, shared their opinions on it and lots of them have already moved on due to the lack of content and/or variety of problems with the game.
And these people are not going to come back once the game oficially goes "Live". Calling it a Beta changes nothing. The game is being judged by players in the state it is currently in, not the state it will be in a few months later.
The general view on the game and its reputation are being built right now, and once this view is set it is set in stone and wont be easily changed. The first impression is always the strongest.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Trust me, I know the PWE site says it's Live. I posted a screenshot of that several weeks ago during the early stages of the "Live v Open Beta" debate.
They also said that is a "known issue" so... Make of that what you wish.
we'll stop saying it's in beta as soon as all of you stop saying it's dying because of the 7 hour rollback instead of a wipe. Deal?
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geldonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2013
I'll stop calling it open beta when Cryptic Studios/Perfect World stops calling it open beta.
Until they do, you're going to have to deal with it. It's deliberate their part, they're lowering the bar because they know there's problems with the game.
This whole concept of a "soft open" would seem groundbreaking if it didn't backfire so miserably due to an in-game economy being involved.
Like the Auction House that had the EXACT same economy ruining bug in it?
The fact that they chose not to fix a known bug does not change anything. All it does is point out their lazy cash grab under the guise of "open beta".
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
It's getting old seeing this in response to any complaint. This game stopped being "In beta" the minute they started taking real money from people and promised no wipes.
If you're going to say something like "they needed to test the cash shop"...
1) It's already been extensively tested in STO.
2) That could have easily been tested by giving everyone a stipend of Zen with the understanding all would be wiped before launch.
i agree with the op, but i'm not alone
all gaming press outlets are calling this a soft launch.
The game is in Open Beta.
Means that is not ready in matter of CONTENT and Software Issues.Even propably in graphic code and software code.They still try to solve any problems with bugs etc etc.
How is this game ready,when NOT ALL CLASSES,RACES,GEAR SETS,and end game content is in the game?
Because you are able to pay and buy items from the game shop it means its live?Same you can do or did in many other games in beta.
Nobody forced you to buy and nobody guaranteed that there wont be any problems for the beta period.When the game is gonna BE OFFICIALY RELEASED,then yes you can blame and flame as much you want.Till then dont buy things if you believe is not worthy,or stop playing it,and let us in peace.
P.S:the most laughable thing,is that most people who are complaining didnt spend even a cent for the game hehehehe.
Its a great game,with potentionals and future and is FREE....if you dont like it or you have no patiance,go play TERA-CONAN-AION and enjoy those "free to play" AMAZING games and then come back and see the difference.Or start playing again Star Wars and WoW and play subscription.
I'll call it open beta because that is what the company calls it. If you want to use a different definition, then under your personal definition of beta, it may or may not be.
If I wasn't willing to accept it as beta, I wouldn't have accepted the agreement calling it beta.
It is in the state that it is in. I'm not sure how labelling it as one name or another is so important. Is it like the p2win label, where the connotations are negative enough that being able to define it as p2win would be a victory for those trying to make the game fail?
The game is listed as open beta on some PWE sections, and release on another. I don't have enough faith in PWE to assume that they never make mistakes, so I suppose you will have to decide for yourself which one is more likely to be correct.
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It's a beta
You can't tell me what not to say!
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
PWE's site lists it as live according to their "gamelist" thingie that has a separate open beta option games can have. It's been listed as live since it launched.
Neverwinter's home page says in big letters that it is beta. Hmm, trust a tiny little L or the big bold words across the games home page.
And anyway what do yo win if your right and it isn't beta?
The reasons listed dont really mean its not beta but you know what does? Bans. People are banned for exploiting bugs found in an "open beta". If this was really an "open beta" then these exploiters wouldnt mean <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> since there would be a wipe when live. Them being banned means that they dont plan on wiping for a live release and that the game is for all intense and purposes live allready.
This confuses me. Even Open Beta is still a testing phase of Game development. So banning someone for exploiting a weakness is rewarded with a Ban? That seems like something that would happen after actual launch.
niblMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I will say: "It is still beta".
People need to understand that this is not yet another localized Korean grinder.
Also unfortunately we live in the world where even biggest/highest budget games are not tested enough.
I think first month you can call open beta, maybe would stretch it for second month, but after that I say it was long enough, and no more beta for you.
I think that full wipe would be helpful after AH exploit (but that would require a bit more expensive packages).
This confuses me. Even Open Beta is still a testing phase of Game development. So banning someone for exploiting a weakness is rewarded with a Ban? That seems like something that would happen after actual launch.
Because there's a difference between exploiting and testing. Testing involves trying to figure out the source of the bug, figuring out the steps required to repeat the bug, and reporting it all, without involving other people as much as possible (and only for the purposes of the first two steps). Exploiting involves using the bug for personal profit, and often without reporting the bug.
Because there's a difference between exploiting and testing. Testing involves trying to figure out the source of the bug, figuring out the steps required to repeat the bug, and reporting it all, without involving other people as much as possible (and only for the purposes of the first two steps). Exploiting involves using the bug for personal profit, and often without reporting the bug.
And yet so many know about the bug, exploits & other glitches in the game...
If the game is launched then by all means Banhammer these people. If it is a Beta, take their stuff and put them back to work(playing the game).
This confuses me. Even Open Beta is still a testing phase of Game development. So banning someone for exploiting a weakness is rewarded with a Ban? That seems like something that would happen after actual launch.
yes it is, open beta or some people call it pre-launch actually a test which is done in real use, no safety, not even an item mall, no nothing, just the game it self. yes, it is using real player as a "tester". usually, after test is done and ready, the data got wiped, bring up the safety feature bla bla bla and everything else, but sometime ago some MMO publisher choose not to run this "tradition", why? well, try to think as a publisher, wipe means lost some of potential players, you know, some player got bored easily after done beta things and leaving only as "beta players". rather than a wipe, this what some publisher do, they announce the game is final and then open one or more new servers.
Beta or not, if they can not close down these exploits (some are client side) and be willing to wipe or get there **** together and ban every account(and there mules) that used exploits then this game will not last till release.
I would go as far as to say any item/gold/ad that is tracked through an exploited account should be removed from the game no matter how the current holder obtained it just so stabilize this mess.
So fix the exploiters by fixing the exploits then wipe the game(returning all the Zen purchased). Those that quit cause they cannot instantly beat the game, are not the kinds of players the DEVs want anyway. Will it cause the cheaters to quit? likely. Will it cause non cheaters to quit? Probably. But there are Billions of potential customers once the game is fixed and reset.
Beta or not, if they can not close down these exploits (some are client side) and be willing to wipe or get there **** together and ban every account(and there mules) that used exploits then this game will not last till release.
actually my dear, almost all MMO out there done things using client-side calculation, that is not exploit, because exploit means you use bug/glitch. while, disrupting client side calculation is cheating. why? bite me, how you "exploit" the client-side without 3rd party software, I dare you. so how to handle this? most MMO using a 3rd party guard system, if you ever play other MMO you will find it before your game launch, something like gameguard, xtrap, etc. it will detect the cheat you use and cut you off from the client. why the game doesnt have that kind of protection? now THAT is the question ....
So fix the exploiters by fixing the exploits then wipe the game(returning all the Zen purchased). Those that quit cause they cannot instantly beat the game, are not the kinds of players the DEVs want anyway. Will it cause the cheaters to quit? likely. Will it cause non cheaters to quit? Probably. But there are Billions of potential customers once the game is fixed and reset.
Cryptic said numerous times that there would be NO WIPE between open beta and the release of Neverwinter.
Comments
I've received emails from people saying they're a persian prince, desperate to invest millions in europe through my bank account... so persian princes they are.
Well, it is nice that you find such wonderful absolutes in life. Absolutes are the fodder of delusions and tomfoolery. In the real world we know that words mean nothing, only actions. Even if every dev said that there will not be a wipe it means nothing if the survival of the game demands that they do one. Circumstances will determine actions and actions will determine reality. Words mean little.
Trust me, I know the PWE site says it's Live. I posted a screenshot of that several weeks ago during the early stages of the "Live v Open Beta" debate.
It doesnt matter whether you call it an Open Beta or a Live launch, because in the eyes of general gaming public this game has been released. People have played it, shared their opinions on it and lots of them have already moved on due to the lack of content and/or variety of problems with the game.
And these people are not going to come back once the game oficially goes "Live". Calling it a Beta changes nothing. The game is being judged by players in the state it is currently in, not the state it will be in a few months later.
The general view on the game and its reputation are being built right now, and once this view is set it is set in stone and wont be easily changed. The first impression is always the strongest.
They also said that is a "known issue" so... Make of that what you wish.
https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame/status/336349507895848961
Until they do, you're going to have to deal with it. It's deliberate their part, they're lowering the bar because they know there's problems with the game.
This whole concept of a "soft open" would seem groundbreaking if it didn't backfire so miserably due to an in-game economy being involved.
The fact that they chose not to fix a known bug does not change anything. All it does is point out their lazy cash grab under the guise of "open beta".
i agree with the op, but i'm not alone
all gaming press outlets are calling this a soft launch.
Means that is not ready in matter of CONTENT and Software Issues.Even propably in graphic code and software code.They still try to solve any problems with bugs etc etc.
How is this game ready,when NOT ALL CLASSES,RACES,GEAR SETS,and end game content is in the game?
Because you are able to pay and buy items from the game shop it means its live?Same you can do or did in many other games in beta.
Nobody forced you to buy and nobody guaranteed that there wont be any problems for the beta period.When the game is gonna BE OFFICIALY RELEASED,then yes you can blame and flame as much you want.Till then dont buy things if you believe is not worthy,or stop playing it,and let us in peace.
P.S:the most laughable thing,is that most people who are complaining didnt spend even a cent for the game hehehehe.
Its a great game,with potentionals and future and is FREE....if you dont like it or you have no patiance,go play TERA-CONAN-AION and enjoy those "free to play" AMAZING games and then come back and see the difference.Or start playing again Star Wars and WoW and play subscription.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
They guaranteed there would be no character resets. That was the only basis on which I spent money.
If I wasn't willing to accept it as beta, I wouldn't have accepted the agreement calling it beta.
It is in the state that it is in. I'm not sure how labelling it as one name or another is so important. Is it like the p2win label, where the connotations are negative enough that being able to define it as p2win would be a victory for those trying to make the game fail?
The game is listed as open beta on some PWE sections, and release on another. I don't have enough faith in PWE to assume that they never make mistakes, so I suppose you will have to decide for yourself which one is more likely to be correct.
You can't tell me what not to say!
Neverwinter's home page says in big letters that it is beta. Hmm, trust a tiny little L or the big bold words across the games home page.
And anyway what do yo win if your right and it isn't beta?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And where do you buy ZEN? On the official site or on the Neverwinter site? Which one is superior?
Regards,
Kalantris
People need to understand that this is not yet another localized Korean grinder.
Also unfortunately we live in the world where even biggest/highest budget games are not tested enough.
I think first month you can call open beta, maybe would stretch it for second month, but after that I say it was long enough, and no more beta for you.
I think that full wipe would be helpful after AH exploit (but that would require a bit more expensive packages).
Because there's a difference between exploiting and testing. Testing involves trying to figure out the source of the bug, figuring out the steps required to repeat the bug, and reporting it all, without involving other people as much as possible (and only for the purposes of the first two steps). Exploiting involves using the bug for personal profit, and often without reporting the bug.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
But saying "it's beta" to dismiss concerns or complaints is still stupid. The point of a beta is to find problems so they can be fixed.
If the game is launched then by all means Banhammer these people. If it is a Beta, take their stuff and put them back to work(playing the game).
yes it is, open beta or some people call it pre-launch actually a test which is done in real use, no safety, not even an item mall, no nothing, just the game it self. yes, it is using real player as a "tester". usually, after test is done and ready, the data got wiped, bring up the safety feature bla bla bla and everything else, but sometime ago some MMO publisher choose not to run this "tradition", why? well, try to think as a publisher, wipe means lost some of potential players, you know, some player got bored easily after done beta things and leaving only as "beta players". rather than a wipe, this what some publisher do, they announce the game is final and then open one or more new servers.
They're not working if they're not reporting, and/or repeatedly abusing an exploit that has already been reported, instead of testing for more.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I would go as far as to say any item/gold/ad that is tracked through an exploited account should be removed from the game no matter how the current holder obtained it just so stabilize this mess.
actually my dear, almost all MMO out there done things using client-side calculation, that is not exploit, because exploit means you use bug/glitch. while, disrupting client side calculation is cheating. why? bite me, how you "exploit" the client-side without 3rd party software, I dare you. so how to handle this? most MMO using a 3rd party guard system, if you ever play other MMO you will find it before your game launch, something like gameguard, xtrap, etc. it will detect the cheat you use and cut you off from the client. why the game doesnt have that kind of protection? now THAT is the question ....
Cryptic said numerous times that there would be NO WIPE between open beta and the release of Neverwinter.