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ETA on Cleric fix ?

diggotdiggot Member Posts: 40 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
Is there any word on a patch to fix the Cleric's insane agro-building currently?.

As it stands, most clerics don't even slot "soothe" because its useless, and all it takes
is 1 strong healer and we got the entire room chasing us.
Post edited by diggot on
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Comments

  • jmerithewjmerithew Member Posts: 137 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It's in the upcoming mega patch that's make GFs more relevant, fixing the economy, and all the other bugs!

    Oh wait... that's what a good company would do.

    Womp womp :-\
  • pressexpose1pressexpose1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can't expect them to fix something they have not yet acknowledged as a problem.
    fs_lastplayed.png
  • rosento0rosento0 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    diggot wrote: »
    Is there any word on a patch to fix the Cleric's insane agro-building currently?.

    As it stands, most clerics don't even slot "soothe" because its useless, and all it takes
    is 1 strong healer and we got the entire room chasing us.

    +1
    This but with more inserted facts here { }
  • drusillusdrusillus Member Posts: 119 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    jmerithew wrote: »
    It's in the upcoming mega patch that's make GFs more relevant, fixing the economy, and all the other bugs!

    Oh wait... that's what a good company would do.

    Womp womp :-\

    To add a little seriousness to this... I never understood why a game company wouldn't release a list of issues is currently working on, rather than just a list of "fixes" for the most current patch that they claim they resolved.

    A sticky listing an official KNOWN issues with a status of each item as "in progress" or "next 30 days" would settle a lot of nerves.
  • jmerithewjmerithew Member Posts: 137 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    You can't expect them to fix something they have not yet acknowledged as a problem.
    That's the problem, they keep referring to us as "testers", but instead of engaging us they throw out canned responses, and spend the remainder of the time RPing as Scrooge McDuck with our money
  • jmerithewjmerithew Member Posts: 137 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    drusillus wrote: »
    To add a little seriousness to this... I never understood why a game company wouldn't release a list of issues is currently working on, rather than just a list of "fixes" for the most current patch that they claim they resolved.

    A sticky listing an official KNOWN issues with a status of each item as "in progress" or "next 30 days" would settle a lot of nerves.
    Agreed, I've discussed the point civilly in alot of threads, but with the continued silence it's hard to take this game seriously. It's uninstalled until the devs start to care. I honestly hope they turn this ship around, but I'm far from hopeful it'll happen.
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This game seems to have the exact same aggro table than Champions Online, among other things, where heals > damage > various threat bonus.
    The only exception is the taunt/mark that overrides it but doesn't last long.
  • redwaterxredwaterx Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    jmerithew wrote: »
    It's in the upcoming mega patch that's make GFs more relevant, fixing the economy, and all the other bugs!

    Oh wait... that's what a good company would do.

    Womp womp :-\

    you had me hopeful until i read the second line /:
  • kiojikkiojik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    As a Cleric, I have been hopeful and read through all the threads regarding our issues. I feel like Cryptic is slapping me in the face every time I kite the whole room knowing I have my trusty 40% Self Heal Debuff (AKA Righteousness), to ya know, HELP ME OUT ??

    Why do you take 2 Clerics, so 1 Cleric can get a FULL UNPENALIZED HEAL.

    We have asked, Cryptic has not answered, however I digress, that your silence tells me your answer. Hey its your game, do what you will with it, but Im not paying to play *****. When I have to buy a health stone because 8.5k Heal Pots dont do the job when you have the whole room murdering you.

    Its a shame because I truly love the way the action combat is implemented, other issues aside.
  • drusillusdrusillus Member Posts: 119 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Spec DPS/Potion :)
  • jmerithewjmerithew Member Posts: 137 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    kiojik wrote: »
    As a Cleric, I have been hopeful and read through all the threads regarding our issues. I feel like Cryptic is slapping me in the face every time I kite the whole room knowing I have my trusty 40% Self Heal Debuff (AKA Righteousness), to ya know, HELP ME OUT ??

    Why do you take 2 Clerics, so 1 Cleric can get a FULL UNPENALIZED HEAL.

    We have asked, Cryptic has not answered, however I digress, that your silence tells me your answer. Hey its your game, do what you will with it, but Im not paying to play *****. When I have to buy a health stone because 8.5k Heal Pots dont do the job when you have the whole room murdering you.

    Its a shame because I truly love the way the action combat is implemented, other issues aside.
    Thankfully alot of upcoming mmos have action combat. The thing I liked about this game that was fairly unique for the genre was the Foundry, but it's not worth encouraging such terrible business practices to enjoy it.
  • seresibylseresibyl Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It sucks and is annoying; however, on any boss that doesn't have adds, you can totally see the reason why heal aggro exists...
  • torqqentorqqen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I personally thought the Foundry, along with the action combat, setting and just the feel of D&D would keep me interested for along time. Started a cleric got to the 4th dungeon and just threw my hands up in frustration. It's ridiculous how much aggro I pull even when NOT trying to. I started to tell groups that if they didn't bring potions don't blame me I'm too busy running for my life. I have been playing MMO's for over 10+ yrs always as a healer and this has made me shelve healing for now.
    This company needs some serious Customer Service classes on how to approach, handle and deal with issues on a timely basis because they are sorely lacking on these items specifically engaging the community on what might be,will be and what is currently being looked at.
  • pressexpose1pressexpose1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    torqqen wrote: »
    I personally thought the Foundry, along with the action combat, setting and just the feel of D&D would keep me interested for along time. Started a cleric got to the 4th dungeon and just threw my hands up in frustration. It's ridiculous how much aggro I pull even when NOT trying to. I started to tell groups that if they didn't bring potions don't blame me I'm too busy running for my life. I have been playing MMO's for over 10+ yrs always as a healer and this has made me shelve healing for now.
    This company needs some serious Customer Service classes on how to approach, handle and deal with issues on a timely basis because they are sorely lacking on these items specifically engaging the community on what might be,will be and what is currently being looked at.


    But almost every boss that a 5 man team face repeatedly spawns adds no? That's Cryptic's whole boss mechanic and has been in all games using this engine in the last 5 years.

    It's the sum total of their boss encounter mechanic.
    fs_lastplayed.png
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    1. The whole game is designed around add fights at every level.
    2. There are no reliable tanking mechanics for
    - snap aggro
    - sustained aoe threat.

    Clearly, someone is meant to be either kiting huge number of adds or controlling them out of harm. Unfortunately, due to aggro from heals, that means naturally it is the Cleric class....

    This is also part of the the reason why GF has little role in the endgame and why much of the time a second Cleric is far more valuable to keep the group alive in more circumstances.

    So, yeah, do not expect any single "fix" for Cleric, or indeed any other class in this respect, since that would be inconsistent with the gameplay of the entire game.

    Note. The reason why slotting Soothe is pointless is because it deals only with threat reduction. But having any aggro above 0 is what matters, not how much above zero. This is one of the reasons aggro is different from threat.
  • blackphoenixbgblackphoenixbg Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    On the other hand cleric is the best tank class in the game
  • ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    diggot wrote: »
    Is there any word on a patch to fix the Cleric's insane agro-building currently?.

    As it stands, most clerics don't even slot "soothe" because its useless, and all it takes
    is 1 strong healer and we got the entire room chasing us.


    Just run 2 clerics like everyone else , even if you aggro some mobs it doesn';t matter .
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    On the other hand cleric is the best tank class in the game

    Except clerics make poor tanks due to very low self healing and damage reduction. Unlike GF, they can be one-shot by bosses even when standing in only their own Astral Shield healing circle.

    Also, a Cleric forced to move due to huge number of adds or very powerful adds, especially move out of their healing circle, basically looks like a mighty tempting piece of chicken running around to monsters.
  • ideagorasideagoras Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 55
    edited May 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Except clerics make poor tanks due to very low self healing and damage reduction. Unlike GF, they can be one-shot by bosses even when standing in only their own Astral Shield healing circle.

    Also, a Cleric forced to move due to huge number of adds or very powerful adds, especially move out of their healing circle, basically looks like a mighty tempting piece of chicken running around to monsters.

    If you adapt to the situation we're in, being the main tank and all. It's wise to invest in a defensive spec and gear. For me all my jewelry are tank items, and it helps tremendously.
  • lollielollie Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Except clerics make poor tanks due to very low self healing and damage reduction. Unlike GF, they can be one-shot by bosses even when standing in only their own Astral Shield healing circle.

    Also clerics only get two dodges per round.

    It's pretty obvious they actually want clerics to die a lot in dungeons.

    = sales of health stone and rez scrolls.
  • shifted111shifted111 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Not to mention that if a cleric is constantly running for his life, he can't build divinity which significantly reduces what he can do.

    And I find that when I'm running for my life, if I stop for ANYTHING whether it's to drop a circle or a daily or anything, I'm dead. The best is when you dodge red circles to land in the red circles literally surrounding you.
  • asakochanasakochan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    diggot wrote: »
    Is there any word on a patch to fix the Cleric's insane agro-building currently?.

    As it stands, most clerics don't even slot "soothe" because its useless, and all it takes
    is 1 strong healer and we got the entire room chasing us.

    who told you soothe is useles? I have soothe sloted and i run dungeons as single cleric on party just fine.
    Maybe depends on the build you run?..
    I agree though, the aggro must be lowered as it is really too much.
  • submersesubmerse Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ETA: 2014 May
  • wctp0wackowctp0wacko Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yup, issue. too much agro
  • freeabcfreeabc Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jmerithew wrote: »
    Agreed, I've discussed the point civilly in alot of threads, but with the continued silence it's hard to take this game seriously. It's uninstalled until the devs start to care. I honestly hope they turn this ship around, but I'm far from hopeful it'll happen.
    I can't agree more. I did some research, on Cryptic's games - specifically STO and, surprise surprise, there's no real group mechanics in place anywhere, it's a zerg model. Why then did we all believe that a company with no real experience creating a trinity-based, class-based game would actually be able to pull it off? Well, because its D&D and we all have been hopelessly believing that it would be "good" and "maintained" and "updated" because of that.

    The plain fact is, this bug has been acknowledged and nothing has yet to be done about it, ruining the game IMO - simply because they are at 0.01 version of trying out any real group mechanics (trinity). I was a $200 level founder, and now I have stopped playing the game, simply because I refuse to play with crappy group mechanics. Quitting before BETA is even over?? GASP, you might say. Well, that's another matter. This is NOT BETA, it is released - the only BETA going on here is the players determining how well Cryptic will respond to game issues. So far, the BETA has failed, in that regard.
  • freeabcfreeabc Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Any anyone with experience playing as a healer in any trinity MMO can tell Soothe is indeed useless. 40% hate reduction?!? Plus another 6% through traits for almost 50% and still can't shake mobs that are not directly involved in healing? Those pesky mobs that notice the healer from across the room, ruining gameplay for his/her teammates who's only job is to try to pull mobs off the healer throughout the entire encounter?

    The mage has a 6% max reduction, or thereabouts, which actually WORKS. You cannot tell me that an almost 50% reduction can be less effective. The fact is, heal aggro is way out of scale, it isn't even calculated - mobs spawn, target the healer - that's it. During closed BETA everything was fine, then some shortbus brilliant person said "healers have it too easy", from that patch on it has been crapp.

    With a dedicated group we experimented 2 full evenings with and without sooth (a dedicated group with over 30 years of MMO experience combined, raid players in EQ2 and WoW). Soothe has zero effect on the encounter mechanics, plain and simple.

    Until such a time as this game becomes more than a zerg'fest, I for one will have nothing to do with it. Waste of $200 bucks - sure - but walking away from $200 dollars is far less painful than bearing the nonsense nightly that this game would bestow upon anyone who knows better (how combat should be).
  • kittykaswickkittykaswick Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I am no fanboy but we need to realize that the only paragons that have been released are dps, that is why the gf have so much trouble and i am guessing that is why clerics have it run and i am speaking from having a 60 cleric and 60. The way the GF builds right now it seems to be a dps off tank with the minimual taunt and the same with cleric, most of the stuff seems dps oriented.
  • cthultistcthultist Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For me personaly the threat generation is fine. I also have experience in mmo healing, and actually for me standing in one spot and healing not being aggroed for the whole fight is boring. People just arent used to cc/aoe down the mobs just for the healers sake, they are used to stand behind the target spam rotation and move away from time to time from the red circle on the ground. Its the clerics job to not let ppl die, and the ppl job is not to let the cleric get killed.
  • efeciaefecia Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The way I look at this whole agro issue is like this: clerics in D&D books and board games are often the first to go down, its the mechanics of the game. If you take out the cleric, the rest of the group will be more likely to fall as well.

    I love my cleric and I generate a lot of agro. I don't want to sound like a naysayer to my fellow clerics, but deal with it and restrategize your gameplay... That is the whole point of playing the game. If it were easy, what would be the point? Sit back and wait a few seconds and throw down a heal when a group member is in dire need. Most times they will run out of the fray & you can use soothing light on them to get them to a higher level. Pick monsters to damage that are already being damaged by a more powerful group member. Keep in mind that you will still get agro and prepare your upclose heal/damage spells for those times.
  • bori4bori4 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 82
    edited May 2013
    cthultist wrote: »
    For me personaly the threat generation is fine. I also have experience in mmo healing, and actually for me standing in one spot and healing not being aggroed for the whole fight is boring. People just arent used to cc/aoe down the mobs just for the healers sake, they are used to stand behind the target spam rotation and move away from time to time from the red circle on the ground. Its the clerics job to not let ppl die, and the ppl job is not to let the cleric get killed.

    Exactly ! One person should be offtanking the adds. If they do their job, the cleric can do their job and noone has to say "why no healz" because the Cleric is so busy kiting 20 adds.
    Bori - Renegade Drow - 40 Trickster Rogue - Mindflayer
    Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer

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    ? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence. ;)


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