Hopefully the fix to the aggro/threat or excessive adds is soon. The lack of Cleric players is killing Dungeon Delves :-(
Try Temple of Spider with a group of each class, quite impossible.
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steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Except clerics make poor tanks due to very low self healing and damage reduction. Unlike GF, they can be one-shot by bosses even when standing in only their own Astral Shield healing circle.
Also, a Cleric forced to move due to huge number of adds or very powerful adds, especially move out of their healing circle, basically looks like a mighty tempting piece of chicken running around to monsters.
Unless you stack Regeneration and build to gain temporary HP mitigations, boost Foresight and so on.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
If they don't want to readjust the threat levels. One thing they could do is just remove the 40% reduction in self-healing outside of PvP. At least then we have a better chance of surviving the beating of being an add-magnet in dungeons.
Hopefully the fix to the aggro/threat or excessive adds is soon. The lack of Cleric players is killing Dungeon Delves :-(
Try Temple of Spider with a group of each class, quite impossible.
This is how my gameplay experience looks like when i enter a epic dungeon with my Cleric
Is there any word on a patch to fix the Cleric's insane agro-building currently?.
As it stands, most clerics don't even slot "soothe" because its useless, and all it takes
is 1 strong healer and we got the entire room chasing us.
I don't even heal as a cleric I let the other cleric do it since there are so many people leveling cleric right now. And as pure Damage dealing cleric I make more threat than the healer. Cleric moves are so much better than fighter moves its not funny.
I wish I could say that I sympathize with clerics and the aggro "bug", and I do as far as the actual too-many-things-are-hitting-me/potion-spam thing goes, but I do not agree that the cleric class itself is the flaw. Atm that defensive blue/yellow circle thing clerics get is easily the most powerful skill in the entire game. When your Control Wizard suddenly becomes strong enough to comfortably tank mobs that in normal circumstances would kill you in 2-3 hits, then you know that something close to gamebreaking is afoot. Hence the price in aggro. I agree with deistik - clerics need to realize that others should start conforming to their needs, especially considering that in true D&D clerics are generally seen as authority figures, shadow leaders, advisers.
Also, you should NEVER be allowed to have the skills required to deal with that aggro all on your own. A true fix would be a boost to wizards/fighters/rogues control powers (and they really should implement this asap, mobs in general should really get stunned/knocked prone/frozen/etc much more frequently as per true D&D)
As it stands, clerics are already the only class absolutely required in dungeons. Sheer D&D-wise this is already a massive design flaw - it is sacrilegious for any class to actually be "required" in D&D. The real question at this point is whether the developers favor D&D mechanics (in which case the real bug would be the fact that people actually need clerics in their party to complete dungeons) or traditional MMO ones.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
A true fix would be a boost to wizards/fighters/rogues control powers (and they really should implement this asap, mobs in general should really get stunned/knocked prone/frozen/etc much more frequently as per true D&D)
Rogues don't control lol highest single target damage + more control. Are you nuts? That's my question.
GFs may need a bit more control but that's it, just a little bit more.
GWFs don't control and CW has more than enough control on his own so no, more control is NOT needed on a CW.
As it stands, clerics are already the only class absolutely required in dungeons. Sheer D&D-wise this is already a massive design flaw - it is sacrilegious for any class to actually be "required" in D&D. The real question at this point is whether the developers favor D&D mechanics (in which case the real bug would be the fact that people actually need clerics in their party to complete dungeons) or traditional MMO ones.
People need clerics because it is currently the ONLY leader class in game. The funcion of a leader os to be NEEDED. Period.
Whenever we get the paladin/templar druid and bard (which are also leaders) clerics will not be needed in every dungeon since bards and druids give CONTROL and HEALING to the group while cleric and paladin/templar give DEFENSE and HEALING.
See what they have in common? Healing. You cannot expect healing classes not to be needed if the game itself is not built around being able to avoid 99% of the damage with the HUGE ammount of adds you get in a fight. You can only essentially avoid 45-50% of the damage.
Well. I've put this game on indefinate hold until i read some news about a substantial fix to
clerics agro-issue in the game. As well as a change in how bosses works.
Because i frankly find it not only a stupid solution to boss mechanics, but also a huge lack of
imagination to how a boss would work, by spamming adds and AoE's during the encounter.
Sure... all you fanbois are going to preach "bring the adds to the tank", but that doesn't really work
when AoE's spawns every other second that would take you to almost dead, while the tank is on the
boss and your goal is to actually AVOID being close to the boss during the encounter.
There's no way you can tell me Cleric's are working as intended at this moment. We have the largest
penalty of all classes, the worst dmg, and we're producing more threat then our entire team combined.
Rogues don't control lol highest single target damage + more control. Are you nuts? That's my question.
.
The real question here is are you? This whole thread is dedicated to the fact the cleric class has severe aggro problems. Obviously this would not be an issue if every other classes' control powers were working as they should.
Do you even have the tiniest idea of whatever it is you're talking about? In real D&D DMs are MERCILESS. If this game had a real DungeonMaster in it every mob in the area would begin chasing the cleric as soon as the he/she revealed himself/herself, regardless if he/she actually used a healing spell or not. It would not be a question of "aggro" or some stupid mmo mechanic, every sentient/trained/controlled mob in the general vicinity would aim for the cleric ASAP simply because it was common sense. Low level mobs ignoring the cleric would be excusable, but to have a high level mob ignore the cleric would be unfathomable (how the hell did it gain so many levels if it was that stupid?).
It was the responsibility of the cleric's party mates to make sure that the cleric remained alive. Every mob in the game interested in killing the cleric -> check. Party mates managing to successfully keep them away from the cleric -> unresolved.
People need clerics because it is currently the ONLY leader class in game. The funcion of a leader os to be NEEDED. Period.
Whenever we get the paladin/templar druid and bard (which are also leaders) clerics will not be needed in every dungeon since bards and druids give CONTROL and HEALING to the group while cleric and paladin/templar give DEFENSE and HEALING.
See what they have in common? Healing. You cannot expect healing classes not to be needed if the game itself is not built around being able to avoid 99% of the damage with the HUGE ammount of adds you get in a fight. You can only essentially avoid 45-50% of the damage.
What's your point? It is ALSO the function of the striker, controller and defender classes to be needed. Ideally you should have one of each. But why is it that to form a decent party all you really need, at the moment, is a good cleric?
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
It was the responsibility of the cleric's party mates to make sure that the cleric remained alive. Every mob in the game interested in killing the cleric -> check. Party mates managing to successfully keep them away from the cleric -> unresolved.
This is almost never the case in an MMO; Furthermore, any other class that plays stupidly or doesn't fulfill their role automatically sloughs it's failures off by default on the party's cleric.
This is the basic problem, though, is that players of other classes actively and directly benefit by shafting the cleric. This should never be a workable mechanic in any party oriented game, let alone the preferred mode for the majority of players.
Also, as a DM, I can think of many circumstances where the cleric would not be the primary target. Example, archers set to harrass/ambush a party from a distance would obviously target the party wizard first.
A DM automatically targetting a cleric is as dumb as the AI of this game. I certainly would never allow a monster of any intelligence level to completely ignore immediate, lethal critical damage against it to chase a cleric around in circles...
The real question here is are you? This whole thread is dedicated to the fact the cleric class has severe aggro problems. Obviously this would not be an issue if every other classes' control powers were working as they should.
Do you even have the tiniest idea of whatever it is you're talking about? In real D&D DMs are MERCILESS. If this game had a real DungeonMaster in it every mob in the area would begin chasing the cleric as soon as the he/she revealed himself/herself, regardless if he/she actually used a healing spell or not. It would not be a question of "aggro" or some stupid mmo mechanic, every sentient/trained/controlled mob in the general vicinity would aim for the cleric ASAP simply because it was common sense. Low level mobs ignoring the cleric would be excusable, but to have a high level mob ignore the cleric would be unfathomable (how the hell did it gain so many levels if it was that stupid?).
It was the responsibility of the cleric's party mates to make sure that the cleric remained alive. Every mob in the game interested in killing the cleric -> check. Party mates managing to successfully keep them away from the cleric -> unresolved.
What's your point? It is ALSO the function of the striker, controller and defender classes to be needed. Ideally you should have one of each. But why is it that to form a decent party all you really need, at the moment, is a good cleric?
Lol real DnD.
High level DnD used to be about ending the combat asap. Chase the cleric? How about ending combat in the first round or two
Frustrating merciless DMs used to be an art form. If you do it in mmos, you just get yelled at for exploiting.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Glad that you're asking because by reading your reply I highly doubt you even bothered to read what I posted earlier, and you quoted it...
I don't know what to tell you because you seem to be playing en entirely different game, but let's get started.
Clerics generate aggro, yes they do in this game and in every mmo out there. Notice how I meant MMORPG not pen&paper RPG? -> get this into your head: this is NOT real DnD, this is an action mmo inspired by DnD's lore. So forget about DMs and all that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It desn't apply here. (I feel like a bully bursting your balloon but the sooner you realise the better. I'm actually doing you a favour lol).
But cleric's threat generation is higher than it should be: Yes it is. It needs to be toned a tad down. It feels like we have a 300% aggro modifier on our skills while GFs have a 100% mod -> It doesen't work. We could live with a 300% threat modifier OR the 40% selfdebuff, but not both. Right now there's no way a CW or GWF can grab the add's aggro and that's not right.
So we need a lower threat mod on our skills, that's clear.
TRs need to control mobs? LOL no, HELL no.
TRs kill the strongest enemies while GWFs and CWs deal with trash, keeping the cleric safe -> but that's not working. Because GWFs can't override the cleric's aggro so they are useless. CWs can do their job just fine, in fact i'd say it's the only class in game that's not entirely broken (altho some of their skills and feats are utterly broken it doesen't affect their utility).
Aaaaand of course a party needs strikers and controllers, but a party can do just fine with 1 leader and 4 controllers or with 1 cleric 1 conroller and 2 defenders or with 1 leader 2 strikers and 2 defenders, etc...
See? the common factor is that you need at least 1 leader. No healing -> No survival. No survival -> No damage. No damage -> No dead boss. No dead boss -> Failure. It's quite simple.
Comments
Try Temple of Spider with a group of each class, quite impossible.
Unless you stack Regeneration and build to gain temporary HP mitigations, boost Foresight and so on.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
This is how my gameplay experience looks like when i enter a epic dungeon with my Cleric
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aW9-wv6gGg
Truth.
I don't even heal as a cleric I let the other cleric do it since there are so many people leveling cleric right now. And as pure Damage dealing cleric I make more threat than the healer. Cleric moves are so much better than fighter moves its not funny.
Buff the fighter to save the Cleric.
Also, you should NEVER be allowed to have the skills required to deal with that aggro all on your own. A true fix would be a boost to wizards/fighters/rogues control powers (and they really should implement this asap, mobs in general should really get stunned/knocked prone/frozen/etc much more frequently as per true D&D)
As it stands, clerics are already the only class absolutely required in dungeons. Sheer D&D-wise this is already a massive design flaw - it is sacrilegious for any class to actually be "required" in D&D. The real question at this point is whether the developers favor D&D mechanics (in which case the real bug would be the fact that people actually need clerics in their party to complete dungeons) or traditional MMO ones.
GFs may need a bit more control but that's it, just a little bit more.
GWFs don't control and CW has more than enough control on his own so no, more control is NOT needed on a CW.
People need clerics because it is currently the ONLY leader class in game. The funcion of a leader os to be NEEDED. Period.
Whenever we get the paladin/templar druid and bard (which are also leaders) clerics will not be needed in every dungeon since bards and druids give CONTROL and HEALING to the group while cleric and paladin/templar give DEFENSE and HEALING.
See what they have in common? Healing. You cannot expect healing classes not to be needed if the game itself is not built around being able to avoid 99% of the damage with the HUGE ammount of adds you get in a fight. You can only essentially avoid 45-50% of the damage.
I want this class in NW.
clerics agro-issue in the game. As well as a change in how bosses works.
Because i frankly find it not only a stupid solution to boss mechanics, but also a huge lack of
imagination to how a boss would work, by spamming adds and AoE's during the encounter.
Sure... all you fanbois are going to preach "bring the adds to the tank", but that doesn't really work
when AoE's spawns every other second that would take you to almost dead, while the tank is on the
boss and your goal is to actually AVOID being close to the boss during the encounter.
There's no way you can tell me Cleric's are working as intended at this moment. We have the largest
penalty of all classes, the worst dmg, and we're producing more threat then our entire team combined.
Do you even have the tiniest idea of whatever it is you're talking about? In real D&D DMs are MERCILESS. If this game had a real DungeonMaster in it every mob in the area would begin chasing the cleric as soon as the he/she revealed himself/herself, regardless if he/she actually used a healing spell or not. It would not be a question of "aggro" or some stupid mmo mechanic, every sentient/trained/controlled mob in the general vicinity would aim for the cleric ASAP simply because it was common sense. Low level mobs ignoring the cleric would be excusable, but to have a high level mob ignore the cleric would be unfathomable (how the hell did it gain so many levels if it was that stupid?).
It was the responsibility of the cleric's party mates to make sure that the cleric remained alive. Every mob in the game interested in killing the cleric -> check. Party mates managing to successfully keep them away from the cleric -> unresolved.
What's your point? It is ALSO the function of the striker, controller and defender classes to be needed. Ideally you should have one of each. But why is it that to form a decent party all you really need, at the moment, is a good cleric?
This is the basic problem, though, is that players of other classes actively and directly benefit by shafting the cleric. This should never be a workable mechanic in any party oriented game, let alone the preferred mode for the majority of players.
Also, as a DM, I can think of many circumstances where the cleric would not be the primary target. Example, archers set to harrass/ambush a party from a distance would obviously target the party wizard first.
A DM automatically targetting a cleric is as dumb as the AI of this game. I certainly would never allow a monster of any intelligence level to completely ignore immediate, lethal critical damage against it to chase a cleric around in circles...
Lol real DnD.
High level DnD used to be about ending the combat asap. Chase the cleric? How about ending combat in the first round or two
Frustrating merciless DMs used to be an art form. If you do it in mmos, you just get yelled at for exploiting.
Glad that you're asking because by reading your reply I highly doubt you even bothered to read what I posted earlier, and you quoted it...
I don't know what to tell you because you seem to be playing en entirely different game, but let's get started.
Clerics generate aggro, yes they do in this game and in every mmo out there. Notice how I meant MMORPG not pen&paper RPG? -> get this into your head: this is NOT real DnD, this is an action mmo inspired by DnD's lore. So forget about DMs and all that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It desn't apply here. (I feel like a bully bursting your balloon but the sooner you realise the better. I'm actually doing you a favour lol).
But cleric's threat generation is higher than it should be: Yes it is. It needs to be toned a tad down. It feels like we have a 300% aggro modifier on our skills while GFs have a 100% mod -> It doesen't work. We could live with a 300% threat modifier OR the 40% selfdebuff, but not both. Right now there's no way a CW or GWF can grab the add's aggro and that's not right.
So we need a lower threat mod on our skills, that's clear.
TRs need to control mobs? LOL no, HELL no.
TRs kill the strongest enemies while GWFs and CWs deal with trash, keeping the cleric safe -> but that's not working. Because GWFs can't override the cleric's aggro so they are useless. CWs can do their job just fine, in fact i'd say it's the only class in game that's not entirely broken (altho some of their skills and feats are utterly broken it doesen't affect their utility).
Aaaaand of course a party needs strikers and controllers, but a party can do just fine with 1 leader and 4 controllers or with 1 cleric 1 conroller and 2 defenders or with 1 leader 2 strikers and 2 defenders, etc...
See? the common factor is that you need at least 1 leader. No healing -> No survival. No survival -> No damage. No damage -> No dead boss. No dead boss -> Failure. It's quite simple.
I want this class in NW.