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Stop saying "It's beta"

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  • vertisonevertisone Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 67
    edited May 2013
    beaghan1 wrote: »
    yeah when they drop the tag the half the community that buys into being beta will start expecting them to perform better, less crashes etc. so they will not drop the tag for as long as they can. the tag limits peoples expectations.

    so you are admitting the game has problems but want them to drop the tag so that everyone (instead of 50% of them) can tell them they suck, ok i get it now. You are mad.
  • kilo418kilo418 Member Posts: 823 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    beaghan1 wrote: »
    yeah when they drop the tag the half the community that buys into being beta will start expecting them to perform better, less crashes etc. so they will not drop the tag for as long as they can. the tag limits peoples expectations.

    So, you're saying that they wont drop the beta tag until it's past a beta state in development? That makes sense to me....
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It's getting old seeing this in response to any complaint. This game stopped being "In beta" the minute they started taking real money from people and promised no wipes.


    If you're going to say something like "they needed to test the cash shop"...

    1) It's already been extensively tested in STO.

    2) That could have easily been tested by giving everyone a stipend of Zen with the understanding all would be wiped before launch.

    Cryptic has stated clearly that the game is in Open Beta and that your expectations should be that Neverwinter is NOT in release state. I'm sorry if this is in conflict with what you would like, however it does not change the facts...
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • helbourne63helbourne63 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    Look at the patch notes since open beta begain. the only things that have been addressed are minor bugs and issues that impact Cryptics pay-to-win revenue stream. Technically, for this to be beta doesn't the development team need to be addressing game issues. Have they even fixed the issue reporting/tracker bug yet?

    I've worked in many other high compliance industries developing software and we never got a beta... Beta-Schmeta
    Helbourne
    Hero of the North
  • edgenwedgenw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    kilo418 wrote: »
    So, you're saying that they wont drop the beta tag until it's past a beta state in development? That makes sense to me....

    More like they won't drop the beta tag until they feel like the game is safe for reviewing, thus avoiding all the pitfalls of being live while reaping all the benefits. It's a crappy move that I would prefer not catching on to other products. Because they can take their sweet time fixing problems while not catching criticism because "it's beta".

    Look at it this way:

    Game-A and Game-B are both at the same point in development, with the same problems. Game-A labels itself "live" while Game-B labels itself as "beta with no wipes". Both games are free to play but have similar cash shop options.

    A year from now, under community/reviewer pressure Game-A has made significant advancements over Game-B, which is still strolling along under the safety of its "we're still beta, but not really" tag.

    The beta tag doesn't benefit you, it only benefits them. In fact, we can argue that the longer they pretend to be in beta, the worse it is for us. It would be different if they weren't collecting money through the cash shop, thus having a serious incentive for getting this game to a point where they consider it polished enough for the live label, but that's not what they did. They're making money off of the game right now. So, "beta" and "live" become meaningless labels. Internally they consider this game to be live. Externally they will refer to it as beta because that's the entire point of their spin.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vertisone wrote: »
    so you are admitting the game has problems but want them to drop the tag so that everyone (instead of 50% of them) can tell them they suck, ok i get it now. You are mad.

    no I wouldn't care one bit if you're like minded people wanted to think it's alpha but people get sick of every legit complaint thread having posts of "geez chill dude it's only beta" that's the whole reason lots of people are getting tired of the beta believers.
  • edgenwedgenw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    edit: Forum bugged out.
  • wrenaqwrenaq Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,

    :p
  • helbourne63helbourne63 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    wrenaq wrote: »
    It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,It's beta, It's beta,

    :p

    Nope it's not :p
    Helbourne
    Hero of the North
  • xavrathxavrath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    You potato and I say potahto. Promise or not, it may turn out to be auspicious for Cryptic/PWE that they called this an open beta. By doing so they can announce to the community that they will indeed be performing a character wipe when open beta ends. Doing a character wipe in live release would be almost unprecedented and disastrous to the reputation of Cryptic. Doing a wipe at the end of an open beta would be relatively normal procedure.

    All that "Open Beta" really means is that Cryptic was smart enough to keep their options open. Breaking a promise about not having a character wipe is vastly preferable to having a broken economy for months or even years to come due to exploiters. I fully realize that many people may be upset over having a character wipe, but I really do not see a viable alternative that would truly repair the damage that has been done to the in-game economy.

    While a character wipe is, obviously, not the ideal solution, it may be the only good solution. I heard hundreds of players swear they were quitting World of Warcraft upon its rocky launch. If they stuck to that promise then Blizzard never missed them after they had over sixteen million subscribers at their zenith. A rocky start need not result in a failed game. What matters is getting it right. Angering a few hotheaded nerds is nothing compared to wrecking the game. The hotheads will return if the game succeeds, despite their protestations.
  • thej0shthej0sh Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lltsnwn wrote: »
    Cryptic has stated clearly that the game is in Open Beta and that your expectations should be that Neverwinter is NOT in release state. I'm sorry if this is in conflict with what you would like, however it does not change the facts...

    Cryptic has stated clearly that the game is in Open Beta (...), however it does not change the facts...

    There, fixed that for you :)
  • thekedtheked Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    itsaysbeta.jpg

    I'm confused, now.
  • eight1foureight1four Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Cant believe people still think this is a real beta. So when the game releases in weeks/months there will be tens of thousands players already max level with best gear available? People will have already quit the game because they are bored with it. You cant be serious guys, you cannot do a open beta for weeks without a wipe at the end.
  • mok33mok33 Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Oh look this thread again. Hello old friend.
  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Nope it's not :p

    What Cryptic/PWE press release or FAQ are you quoting or is this just your opinion?
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • randomone777randomone777 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's getting old seeing this in response to any complaint. This game stopped being "In beta" the minute they started taking real money from people and promised no wipes.


    If you're going to say something like "they needed to test the cash shop"...

    1) It's already been extensively tested in STO.

    2) That could have easily been tested by giving everyone a stipend of Zen with the understanding all would be wiped before launch.

    In my opinion, "Beta" is a known WoTC way of skirting potential issues. They did the same thing with several of their D&D tools; that they do it with this fails to surprise me.

    That said, I'm enjoying the game so far. Just wish they'd get the danged marketplace back up... I'm running out of room and need to put a few things up to sell. :(
    Maniacal mage making magical messes; mercifully, made mostly of menaces.

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  • glanniganglannigan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 463 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It's Beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta, beta.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lltsnwn wrote: »
    What Cryptic/PWE press release or FAQ are you quoting or is this just your opinion?

    thank God for press releases or you'd do what? sit in a corner and deny the whole world exists, oh and btw PWE has a Green "L" next to the game on their games page, look at the legend L = LIVE, that official enough for you?
  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    thej0sh wrote: »
    Cryptic has stated clearly that the game is in Open Beta (...), however it does not change the facts...

    There, fixed that for you :)

    Normally when I think of Open Beta I expect that they will do a complete wipe before the game was released, however Cryptic has stated many times over that there will NOT be a wipe at the end of Open Beta... Those are Cryptic/PWE's words not mine... As a beta tester you should have certain expectations for testing a beta product is all I was saying...
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • xavrathxavrath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    beaghan1 wrote: »
    thank God for press releases or you'd do what? sit in a corner and deny the whole world exists, oh and btw PWE has a Green "L" next to the game on their games page, look at the legend L = LIVE, that official enough for you?

    I think you entirely missed the point there. Since we must be explicit in our conversation, just suffice it to say that almost everything that was not announced in a press release is speculation. Speculation is a form of assumption, and we all know what assuming things does.

    So now tell me, does your speculation count for more than that of anyone else because you said it? Here is some speculation for you...

    Let's say that Cryptic decides to do a character wipe at the end of beta after all. Does that make this a true open beta at that point?
  • xavrathxavrath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lltsnwn wrote: »
    Normally when I think of Open Beta I expect that they will do a complete wipe before the game was released, however Cryptic has stated many times over that there will NOT be a wipe at the end of Open Beta... Those are Cryptic/PWE's words not mine... As a beta tester you should have certain expectations for testing a beta product is all I was saying...

    I see. So you actually believe that they really will not do a wipe under any circumstances just because they said it repeatedly? I can assure you, if Cryptic decides that a character wipe is the only thing that can save Neverwinter then they will do one. Certainly, they will try to do everything they can to avoid a wipe, but at some point it becomes clear that it must happen. Neverwinter is clearly nearing that point. All it will take is one or two more big game-breaking exploits to push it into the area where a wipe is pretty much the only choice. Some would argue that the game is already at that point.

    There is a reason that you should never say never.
  • eight1foureight1four Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wipe + free zen to correctly test the zen shop would make a true open beta.
    xavrath wrote: »
    I think you entirely missed the point there. Since we must be explicit in our conversation, just suffice it to say that almost everything that was not announced in a press release is speculation. Speculation is a form of assumption, and we all know what assuming things does.

    So now tell me, does your speculation count for more than that of anyone else because you said it? Here is some speculation for you...

    Let's say that Cryptic decides to do a character wipe at the end of beta after all. Does that make this a true open beta at that point?
  • swamprobswamprob Member Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    This game stopped being "In beta" the minute they started taking real money from people and promised no wipes.

    The problem with this oft-repeated statement is that it is YOUR definition of the word beta. I've seen games out for years that still call themselves beta, so beta they are.

    The bottom line is this, whether or not you agree that the company labeling a game as beta is correct to do so, you spend money or don't knowing that THEY consider it a beta. The risk is yours to take or not.

    So never mind telling people to stop using the phrase 'It's a beta'. Instead, you should tell yourself to stop insisting it isn't when the company is telling you it is.
  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    beaghan1 wrote: »
    thank God for press releases or you'd do what? sit in a corner and deny the whole world exists, oh and btw PWE has a Green "L" next to the game on their games page, look at the legend L = LIVE, that official enough for you?

    I asked about this issue and it was replied to:

    According to Perfect World website Neverwinter is currently Live not Open Beta

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?276411-According-to-Perfect-World-website-Neverwinter-is-currently-Live-not-Open-Beta

    Did anyone else notice that Perfect World has Neverwinter as Live and not Open Beta status?

    http://www.perfectworld.com/

    If it was in Open Beta it would have a blue "O" letter and not a green "L" next to the game title. Did I miss the press release or is this some kind of error on Perfect World's website?

    ANSWER:

    The lastest information from Cryptic/PWE is that is an unintentional display error will be changed.

    So there you go :)
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • eight1foureight1four Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Please tell me one major MMO that didnt wipe everything at the end of the open beta. Tell me one that once released, tens of thousands of peoples were already max level with best in slot gear.
    swamprob wrote: »
    The problem with this oft-repeated statement is that it is YOUR definition of the word beta. I've seen games out for years that still call themselves beta, so beta they are.

    The bottom line is this, whether or not you agree that the company labeling a game as beta is correct to do so, you spend money or don't knowing that THEY consider it a beta. The risk is yours to take or not.

    So never mind telling people to stop using the phrase 'It's a beta'. Instead, you should tell yourself to stop insisting it isn't when the company is telling you it is.
  • thej0shthej0sh Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    theked wrote: »
    I'm confused, now.

    You're not the only one...
    nwlivebeta.jpg
  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    xavrath wrote: »
    I see. So you actually believe that they really will not do a wipe under any circumstances just because they said it repeatedly? I can assure you, if Cryptic decides that a character wipe is the only thing that can save Neverwinter then they will do one. Certainly, they will try to do everything they can to avoid a wipe, but at some point it becomes clear that it must happen. Neverwinter is clearly nearing that point. All it will take is one or two more big game-breaking exploits to push it into the area where a wipe is pretty much the only choice. Some would argue that the game is already at that point.

    There is a reason that you should never say never.

    When a company repeatedly states over and over that there will be NO WIPE at the end of open beta and release why should I not believe them? It's their game after all...
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    xavrath wrote: »
    I think you entirely missed the point there. Since we must be explicit in our conversation, just suffice it to say that almost everything that was not announced in a press release is speculation. Speculation is a form of assumption, and we all know what assuming things does.

    So now tell me, does your speculation count for more than that of anyone else because you said it? Here is some speculation for you...

    Let's say that Cryptic decides to do a character wipe at the end of beta after all. Does that make this a true open beta at that point?

    first, how is PWE having the game marked as Live speculation? That is how they have it, nothing speculated. To answer your question now, yes if they announced a full wipe then I would concede that it is truly beta as that is the only possible defense that they would have to the class action lawsuits that would hit them. That being said, every, that is EVERY, dev that posts on these forums has said that there will under no circumstance be a character wipe. Yes that then adds to my "speculation" that this is not beta as it should to anyone with any intelligence on these forums. Somehow a large number of people seem to want to be able to say it's beta though. Maybe for the same reasons that Cryptic wants these believer to keep it up, maybe because they need that so that they don't have to admit to themselves that this game that they had so much faith in being the best MMO ever, just isn't all that after all, that's just more speculation on my part though.
  • beaghan1beaghan1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lltsnwn wrote: »
    I asked about this issue and it was replied to:

    According to Perfect World website Neverwinter is currently Live not Open Beta

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?276411-According-to-Perfect-World-website-Neverwinter-is-currently-Live-not-Open-Beta

    Did anyone else notice that Perfect World has Neverwinter as Live and not Open Beta status?

    http://www.perfectworld.com/

    If it was in Open Beta it would have a blue "O" letter and not a green "L" next to the game title. Did I miss the press release or is this some kind of error on Perfect World's website?

    ANSWER:

    The lastest information from Cryptic/PWE is that is an unintentional display error will be changed.

    So there you go :)

    so there you go? hahahahaha you crack me up. They could change that in less than 5 seconds if they wanted it changed LOL you really made me laugh. btw, I have a good deal on some swamp land I'd like to sell you, don't worry about it being swamp as it had loads of oil under it :p
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