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To the "Millions of AD" complainers

epixcomixepixcomix Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.
Post edited by epixcomix on
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  • Options
    altonimaraltonimar Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Best post today.
  • Options
    demianikusdemianikus Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How much AD do you have on other accounts?
  • Options
    hurk97hurk97 Member Posts: 154 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    But what are the Emo kids going to cry about now? Guess I will have to steal their lollipop.
  • Options
    majorbpaynemajorbpayne Member Posts: 46
    edited May 2013
    Well, I can tell you for near-fact that the AD is not going to stay in their accounts. Reason being, I sold an item on the AH for 100,000 AD pre-rollback. Now my 100,000 AD is gone, and so is my item. So whatever they sold, got, acquired, stole, whatever, Is gone. If I got mine legit and it was taken away, Then I don't see why the exploiters won't be taken away.
  • Options
    knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    They still should've roll backed further IMO.

    It really started at midnight pst last night while I was leveling. And the exchange started exploding. I was leveling during then and the roll back didn't go that far back apparently.

    So they have alot of cleaning up to do, also have to track excess gold amounts as well as cats and other items.

    I'm afraid I won't be able to afford anything in this game the way it's going.
  • Options
    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is not (so much) that exploiters have got a zillion AD on a single account, it is that the AD they created has been filtered to other parties, some of whom have without doing anything wrong benefited enormously. This will be almost impossible to find and remove (not to mention unfair) and has devalued the AD that had been legitimately grinded or obtained from Founders Packs,
  • Options
    rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects.

    I don't believe you. Here's why.
    epixcomix wrote: »
    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.
  • Options
    weak77weak77 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Great post and thoughtful thinking, unlike the rest of the posts for the past few days. There is a problem they are working on fixing it and it may not be a instant fix but hey look at any problem that involves thousands of people from various parts of the world. There will not be a bandage that fixes everything instantly for everyone involved. At least they give some what about the game unlike other game companies.
  • Options
    amandoxamandox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There's one flaw in your theory. While investigating these people have free access to spread the astral diamonds :) which will result in untrackable AD. The damage has been done, it has been contained but cannot be reversed, only minimalised, as what they are doing now, sadly.
  • Options
    bbsoonerbbsooner Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 84
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

    1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

    4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

    5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

    6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


    So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.

    Stop bringing logic and standard business practices to forums. Dont you know? This place is for overreaction and raging rooted in ignorance.

    Oh and in case no one heard, the sky is falling and the commies are putting mind control agents in our water supply.
  • Options
    epixcomixepixcomix Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    The problem is not (so much) that exploiters have got a zillion AD on a single account, it is that the AD they created has been filtered to other parties, some of whom have without doing anything wrong benefited enormously. This will be almost impossible to find and remove (not to mention unfair) and has devalued the AD that had been legitimately grinded or obtained from Founders Packs,

    There is going to be some impact on the economy, yes, but honestly there are AD and money sinks in the game and within a few weeks, that will correct some of this problem. It will take perhaps a month maybe even two before things stabilize to their "normal" level but it will happen, and it will get a little better every day. I am not here to tell you that what happened won't have any impact, but rather to explain that it's not the "end of the game" scenario a number of people are claiming it to be. The biggest and most unbalancing transactions will be tracked down and handled.
  • Options
    sagasaintsagasaint Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    what we'r dealing with here is a developer who not only left a bug that appeared in their other games twice and was also reported here beforehand at large , but also ignores a myriad other bugs of gamebreaking nature on daily basis for weeks (now a month) on end...

    if you seriously think that they are going to do all that work....I got a spare London Bridge here and I was thinking of getting rid of it for cheap. pm me for the specifics.

    let me tell you what they will do.

    they will track the biggest offenders of the last couple days and clean them out of the AD, if they are freeloaders they will ban them but if they are big spenders they will let them go with a wristslap. they wont bother going back thru the logs to cacth those who were abusing this long before the exploit went viral

    and they will keep ignoring alll the other bugs myriad bugs, since they dont directly affect their income gain


    sorry, but the moment you signed to play a F2P game (and specifically a PWE at that) you tacitly admitted you would get the most hilariously bad (if existant) support to ever disgrace the industry. declare yourself content if they do ANYTHING at all.
  • Options
    meattreatmeattreat Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.



    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    Did they not have databases or database Queries on these pretend MMO's you worked on.
  • Options
    spyke2009spyke2009 Member Posts: 674 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

    1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

    4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

    5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

    6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


    So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.

    I feel as though I've just found an oasis of blue watery refreshing sense, in a sea of burning flame-laden redundant garbage sand.
  • Options
    nephtnepht Member Posts: 5,826 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've lost like 25 AD I am so enraged about that I will consider quitting sometime in the year 2016. That will teach you Cryptic.
    nepht_siggy_by_nepht-d8xf5sk.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
  • Options
    ganzor123ganzor123 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

    1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

    4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

    5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

    6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


    So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.

    Garbage post and people are eating it up. I heard a query works good for selecting data from a database.
  • Options
    banditgrcbanditgrc Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    The problem is not (so much) that exploiters have got a zillion AD on a single account, it is that the AD they created has been filtered to other parties, some of whom have without doing anything wrong benefited enormously. This will be almost impossible to find and remove (not to mention unfair) and has devalued the AD that had been legitimately grinded or obtained from Founders Packs,

    Let's not forget that most "smart" exploiters used the duped AD to "clear" vendors and basically convert it into disposable items easily distributed throughout multiple accounts or even random individuals. While, it's technically possible to locate these people and affected accounts via server logs and transactions, a manual or semi-manual process will literally take months, in order to yield actual results. The real question here is whether this game and its community can afford to wait for that long, with the economy borked and tainted, not to mention the other issues not connected to this particular exploit. It also begs the question, whether people are actually, relatively "safe" from future exploits of this magnitude, seeing that Cryptic has a history of these kinds of exploits (STO etc). You have to really wonder what kind of code they ported for the engine and whether anyone bothered to check for updates/fixes. All in all, the current situation sets yet another negative if not dangerous precedent for the company, a precedent that a lot of people that have played previous Cryptic/PWE games, are already familiar with.

    Unfortunately, this is exactly what happens, when you design your game around micro transactions, leaving 90% of your stuff as Bind on Equip, so that they can be bought/sold/exchanged for virtual currency, loosely connected to real world currency. We have yet to see the fallout of the exploits and it won't happen before the AH/Zen Exchange is reinstated.
  • Options
    tallulahkattallulahkat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 112 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

    1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

    4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

    5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

    6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


    So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.

    so pretty much what you are saying is they are going to take all these measures that will take a good month, possibly longer.. when they could have fixed the issue in one day by doing FULL WIPES after fixing the exploits? Makes sense to me....
  • Options
    rodpalrodpal Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    10 char

    Best post i read by far!

    Thank you.
  • Options
    elessymelessym Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tallulahkat wrote: »
    so pretty much what you are saying is they are going to take all these measures that will take a good month, possibly longer.. when they could have fixed the issue in one day by doing FULL WIPES after fixing the exploits? Makes sense to me....

    Full wipes would have entailed massive refunds. Reality check please.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • Options
    sasheriasasheria Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If any of these exploiters are using "Money Laundering 101" you won't be able to trace them easily without taking weeks/months to track down logs.
    To grow old is inevitable, to grow up is optional.
    Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
  • Options
    tfangeltfangel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    altonimar wrote: »
    Best post today.

    Yeah, i expected a meme post or similar.
  • Options
    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tallulahkat wrote: »
    so pretty much what you are saying is they are going to take all these measures that will take a good month, possibly longer.. when they could have fixed the issue in one day by doing FULL WIPES after fixing the exploits? Makes sense to me....

    What is more hilarious are those people thinking that Cryptic will go to all this trouble when they couldn't be bothered to put in the comparatively much, much less effort to fix exploits that had been reported to them multiple times.....
  • Options
    tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    An SQL query is what they would use.
  • Options
    werepedobearwerepedobear Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 41
    edited May 2013
    sagasaint wrote: »
    what we'r dealing with here is a developer who not only left a bug that appeared in their other games twice and was also reported here beforehand at large , but also ignores a myriad other bugs of gamebreaking nature on daily basis for weeks (now a month) on end...

    if you seriously think that they are going to do all that work....I got a spare London Bridge here and I was thinking of getting rid of it for cheap. pm me for the specifics.

    let me tell you what they will do.

    they will track the biggest offenders of the last couple days and clean them out of the AD, if they are freeloaders they will ban them but if they are big spenders they will let them go with a wristslap. they wont bother going back thru the logs to cacth those who were abusing this long before the exploit went viral

    and they will keep ignoring alll the other bugs myriad bugs, since they dont directly affect their income gain


    sorry, but the moment you signed to play a F2P game (and specifically a PWE at that) you tacitly admitted you would get the most hilariously bad (if existant) support to ever disgrace the industry. declare yourself content if they do ANYTHING at all.

    OMG THIS ONE HAS INSURMOUNTABLE PROOF OF PWE's incompetence! I'm quitting now and joining him in trolling this forum while regularly checking my account for my free gift! Yes ! I'm quitting now! Wait let me just log in and pray, I dont wNt to lose my coins even though I quit. BUT IM QUITTING. FOR REALZ. YOLO.

    Friggin hypocrites.
    forumskill.gif
  • Options
    vamps37vamps37 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 40
    edited May 2013
    You might have CLAIMED to work for a gaming company but your still not thinking this thru (Not trying to troll you either)

    1) people used up the AD to buy ZEN
    2) people used the AD and where flooding the market w/ FREE cats to people to spread the issue around causing even more problems. (even before yesterday)
    3) AD was spread around to mule accounts (if anyone is smart enough)
    4) AD was used to AUTO level trade skills to max level and other stuff that would have taken weeks/months

    I can keep going on here but there are LOTS AND LOTS of flaws in your theory/solution. Sorry but please find another solution and its not gonna fly. They knew about this issue and they did nothing (along with the other exploits) They need to wipe the servers as its BETA and start in a fresh ecomony. Or give us that want (majority of us) a fresh server.
  • Options
    maximiliousmaximilious Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    but then someone will say banning by IP doesnt mean jack because they can spoof their MACS and such.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    absynthe7absynthe7 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Most importantly, the rollback filtered out the majority of exploit-created AD, and all of the "ruined economy" shrieking is comprised of falsehoods, trolling, and hearsay. They didn't pick the time for the rollback out of a hat, y'know.
  • Options
    rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    absynthe7 wrote: »
    They didn't pick the time for the rollback out of a hat, y'know.

    How did they pick it, then?

    It sounds like you're assuming that the accusations that this bug was extant and being exploited before yesterdays catsplosion are false, yes?
  • Options
    lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    epixcomix wrote: »
    For all of those players with complaints about all the excess AD floating in the economy and the people who have millions or billions of AD and weren't caught in the roll back, let me toss out some information.

    I worked in the MMO industry for over 10 years and on several projects. Now I do not work for Cryptic or PWE, and I don't know all the inner workings of this game, but having seen a number of similar games from the back end, I can give you a pretty good hypothesis about what is going to happen.

    1) You have the rollback to correct some of the latest and most obvious issues with people using the AD exploit

    2) You build an algorithm (if it isn't already built which it very well could be) that displays every account/character that has over X amount of AD.

    3) All accounts over X are checked individually through the logs from the open beta start (less than a month so they should have them all on back up still).

    4) Accounts are then cross referenced by IP and all accounts accessing or sharing that IP are also checked.

    5) Major transactions are tracked from those accounts to other accounts.

    6) AD is removed from those accounts and bans take place, as well as IP bans depending on the number of infractions and the IPs involved.


    So for those of you that think the rollback was the only measure to be taken regarding this incident, perhaps now you can see that's only the very initial stages of what takes place. Be angry if you like, quit the game if you like, but realize eventually, this will all be resolved and the excess removed from the game.

    Most of the so called "Millions of AD" complainers are trying to push their full server wipe agenda that started way before this latest issue came to light.
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
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