Wow obviously the person who made this thread has no idea how hard it is to make a game 100% exploit free from release and therefore everything he just said means nothing...if anything I'm 100% happy it happened in open beta!
If you think that a person's conduct in a video game, especially the conduct in question, makes them "pathetic selfish rejects of society", I'm pretty sure that makes you an actual sociopath.
When someone cheats.. at a game of all things, whether it's a video game or Chutes and Ladders, Monopoly, Scrabble, etc.. it's just.. really? How lame are you?
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mownage123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
You must not pvp that much, and that's only one aspect that makes this exploit broken.
Say your team are all legit players. The other team is all decked out in uber gears and enchants via cheats. It's no fun getting steamrolled.
When one team or player has an unfair advantage, it breaks the game for everyone else that worked hard to stay competitive. It's really that simple.
As of this morning, a lot of people were exploiting this, as evidenced by all the -AD bids in the AH. Now if they all get the banhammer, and the game resets (or a new fresh server created), the playing field is even.
The most recent "exploit" would be akin to if someone discovered that if you were wearing sunglasses, ATM machines would spit out 100 $20 bills per minute for you.
Cryptic designed the game to be entirely based on currency. You can buy every piece of gear, and the best items are things you HAVE to buy (cats, enchants, etc).
Calling people who took advantage of this colossal coding mistake "exploiters" and comparing them to thieves or criminals is naive, absurd, and borderline sociopathic. As if you can really judge a person's character based on whether they stop and collect $20 bills spewing out of an ATM machine while 100 other people within eyeshot are doing the same.
There's a big difference between cheating and holding out your hat when money is falling from the sky.
What if you could log into your online banking using ALL CAPS and if you did it multiplied your savings by 1000? Yeah, you'd do it. And so would everyone else. And that wouldn't make you diseased, it would make you smart.
Stop trying to make lame and completely false excuses.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.
Your excuse with the bank account just shows what kind of human being you are. I am sorry, but DECENT human beings have the ability to rationalize what is right and what is wrong, and do what is right REGARDLESS of if the know they will get caught or not, or if everyone else around them is doing it too. This goes for real life or in a game world. In fact, in a game there is less chance of anything negative happening to yourself if you do find an exploit and abuse it, and it takes a stronger person to report it and move one and not take advantage of it.
Frankly, it is just a matter of doing what's right or being held accountable if you choose to do whats wrong. Anything else is just some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trying trying to justify his wrong doings by point the finger at everyone else. It is why the world is going down the drain, because self entitled people that assume everything is for them and they can take it regardless of who it affects.
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melanko0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
The OP is correct on this point. This is similar to the industry I work in which is Information Security. As an example, if a hacker gets into and banking institution's network either through a network flaw or website flaw, the bank will be held accountable. The company I work for transacts tens of thousands of credit cards a day and if we even lose one of those number to a hacker, the Payment Card Industry will fine us for half a million dollars.
Will a hacker/exploiter be caught and punished? Yes and rightly so. But it goes to show that the responsibility of the company is to protect it's users information and assets. Failure to do so is a problem. So the only people I can blame at this time is the Cryptic developers and QA for not properly spotting a problem like this already and fixing it immediately.
Luckily the exploiters went all out when this was discovered. All we needed was for it to be discovered and only utilized subtly so it would go undetected.
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
The same solid logic used by most of the people currently sitting in a jail cell. Example a. someone leaves there keys in there car lets steal it. or b. let them know and be a responsible citizen hmmm.. its easy to tell who the people are with the questionable morals. It's a shame that so many gamers in this digital age seem unable to associate the two and think its just ok.
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juravianMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 63
You must not pvp that much, and that's only one aspect that makes this exploit broken.
Say your team are all legit players. The other team is all decked out in uber gears and enchants via cheats. It's no fun getting steamrolled.
When one team or player has an unfair advantage, it breaks the game for everyone else that worked hard to stay competitive. It's really that simple.
As of this morning, a lot of people were exploiting this, as evidenced by all the -AD bids in the AH. Now if they all get the banhammer, and the game resets (or a new fresh server created), the playing field is even.
Right now, its broken.
And this happens even without the exploiters. You have people here that have paid for AD and gear, or were Founders that started 7 days ahead of everyone else.
After they rollback alot of the exploited accounts or outright ban them, we will have to see where we stand.
Wiping the servers just puts everyone back to 0 so those who did not get an early start can try to get ahead. It won't change the economy in any way.
Ultima Online was one of the first MMOs and I remember it almost entirely because of the insane number of exploits, bugs and bad design. It was one of the first and they could say they never expected their players to stack a chair while eating a banana on a doorstep would put you under the house and able to exploit their way in.
When you're a company like Cryptic who has clearly designed games before AND stand on the shoulders of all the examples that came before there isn't much excuse for allowing the frankly absurd levels of game mechanic abuse, rampant exploit, and completely amateur level of mistakes.
Blaming the exploiters is like the Frog blaming the Scorpion for being a Scorpion (google it). Exploiters are going to happen and people will abuse, exploit and take advantage of anything you let them. It is their nature. When you allow anyone to participate in your product that will include the Scorpions. A toxic player base has always come with F2P games because they have nothing to lose. Cryptic chose this design and the player base that comes with it.
To not place all and complete blame on Cryptic is simply faulty and wrong. It's your denial of the situation. There can be no one else to blame. This is why games used to have real open betas where information was wiped, so "scorpions" (who can't help themselves) exploit and you catch it before any real harm is done. Cryptic was the one who limited access to open beta in order to push sales. It's not these legitimate customers that you need to test your game and show you the real flaws.
Cryptic engineered the situation in which has taken place. They made their bed and now they get to sleep in it. Many years from now when all of us are looking back we're going think back on this and it will be impossible to not associate Neverwinter or Cryptic without disdainfully thinking of all the bugs, exploits and otherwise that they let (and continue) to run rampant.
OP is stating that they were reported. They just weren't fixed in a timely fashion.
Exactly. At first I was pissed off at the exploiters, but why? When a greedy company allows cash purchases during an untested Open Beta, why blame people trying take advantage of their incompetence?
I never cheated or exploited myself, but I did profit from it by getting a few dirt cheap cats and mounts.
Hoping they dont wipe so I get to keep all my stuff, and knowing Cryptic, I know they won't.
Op is a exploiter trying to justify his exploiting lol.
It is like a bank robber saying the vault was open I had to steal the money, not my fault it is the banks.
Actually, it's more like a bank has their vault undergoing security tests, and one of the security team found a way to get in and steal the money. Then the bank gets angry at the security testers for having broken in which was their job to do in the 1st place.
Did the exploiters take it a little far? Yes. Did the exploiters do something wrong in the 1st place? No. The game is in open beta, and that means it's undergoing a process in which it relies on the player base to test the games limits, and to find anything that could be game breaking.
If this had happened while the game was LIVE, I would be going ape**** but it didn't. It happened during a beta phase. I'm glad that the problem was caught and fixed in beta stage.
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
Like many others, you have serious thinking errors.
1. It's never the victims fault.
2. You are trying to justify doing something that's wrong.
3. You are trying to redirect the blame.
Examples of the victims fault thinking error:
A thief mugs someone for $100, it isn't the thief's fault, it's the guy that got mugged fault for carrying $100.
A girl gets <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...It isn't the rapists fault, it was her fault because of the way she looked.
Examples of justification:
I did it because everyone else was.
If they didn't want it they should have did something about it.
Example of trying to redirect the blame:
It's not my fault, he just left it there.
To put it simply, the blame falls solely on the people that choose the do wrong .
Because this bug existed a year ago in Star Trek Online and took Cryptic months to fix. The bug was discovered in Neverwinter Closed Beta and reported. When the game went Open Beta people tried it and found that it was still there. Surprised this only blew up recently. Maybe some folks were using it quietly so as to gain huge amounts of AD and remain under the radar for the last few weeks.
Yes let's blame the exploiters but Cryptic has to take some of the blame. Using old buggy code in Neverwinter which had been fixed in STO to remain well into open beta is just stunningly inept.
And this happens even without the exploiters. You have people here that have paid for AD and gear, or were Founders that started 7 days ahead of everyone else.
After they rollback alot of the exploited accounts or outright ban them, we will have to see where we stand.
Wiping the servers just puts everyone back to 0 so those who did not get an early start can try to get ahead. It won't change the economy in any way.
The economy has been screwed for weeks now because people heavily exploited the game using a variety of exploits, muled away the ill gotten goods, had their main account banned, and then never had their alt accounts touched allowing them to make thousands of dollars (so they claim). The multiple millions that people are trading for high end items didn't just come from Founder Packs and it sure as hell didn't come from the paltry thousands you can earn each day through legitimate means.
Last night I sold a number of items that were "legtimately" priced. They were likely purchased with ill gotten AD or flat out exploit. This happened for a number of people. There's no way you can control that with targeted roll backs without rolling back the whole system. They might get a few big cash cow accounts but there's literally thousands accounts affected by the AH/AD exploits. To be ignorant of that not having an effect doesn't mean it will actually have no effect.
The rot is there. They can either purge it and start over without the rot or keep trying to triage it. They seem hell bent on triaging it and trying to keep ahead of it but they never will. They're letting critical game mechanic abuses and exploits run rampant which is just wrecking their game. The rot is deep.
Op is a exploiter trying to justify his exploiting lol.
It is like a bank robber saying the vault was open I had to steal the money, not my fault it is the banks.
the game is in BETA
bugs are supposed to exist
if someone finds a bug and uses it to their advantage then so what ?
if they're going to ban people for it then don't call the game BETA
Because this bug existed a year ago in Star Trek Online and took Cryptic months to fix. The bug was discovered in Neverwinter Closed Beta and reported. When the game went Open Beta people tried it and found that it was still there. Surprised this only blew up recently. Maybe some folks were using it quietly so as to gain huge amounts of AD and remain under the radar for the last few weeks.
Yes let's blame the exploiters but Cryptic has to take some of the blame. Using old buggy code in Neverwinter which had been fixed in STO to remain well into open beta is just stunningly inept.
awesome post
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snakeoil88Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
And this my friends is exactly what is wrong with this world .......... it's everyone's fault but your own.
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juravianMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 63
the game is in BETA
bugs are supposed to exist
if someone finds a bug and uses it to their advantage then so what ?
if they're going to ban people for it then don't call the game BETA
When they use the exploit to steal RL money from the company, then yes they should be banned. BETA or not.
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melanko0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
I am really surprised the amount of people are defending Cryptic on this. I underestimated the fanboy-ism. It is the company's responsibility to protect the game from cheaters and exploiters. Cheating, hacking and exploiting is just the nature of technology and the proper protections have to be put in place.
I am really surprised the amount of people are defending Cryptic on this. I underestimated the fanboy-ism. It is the company's responsibility to protect the game from cheaters and exploiters. Cheating, hacking and exploiting is just the nature of technology and the proper protections have to be put in place.
Because this bug existed a year ago in Star Trek Online and took Cryptic months to fix. The bug was discovered in Neverwinter Closed Beta and reported. When the game went Open Beta people tried it and found that it was still there. Surprised this only blew up recently. Maybe some folks were using it quietly so as to gain huge amounts of AD and remain under the radar for the last few weeks.
Yes let's blame the exploiters but Cryptic has to take some of the blame. Using old buggy code in Neverwinter which had been fixed in STO to remain well into open beta is just stunningly inept.
Bing bing bing!
These AD/AH exploits been going on for a while now. All the Diamonds didn't get created from thin air. You can only earn so much in a day and certainly not the multi-millions that are being slung around. While certainly a good chunk was from Founder packs that doesn't account for the many millions that items are going for these days.
Because this bug existed a year ago in Star Trek Online and took Cryptic months to fix. The bug was discovered in Neverwinter Closed Beta and reported. When the game went Open Beta people tried it and found that it was still there. Surprised this only blew up recently. Maybe some folks were using it quietly so as to gain huge amounts of AD and remain under the radar for the last few weeks.
Yes let's blame the exploiters but Cryptic has to take some of the blame. Using old buggy code in Neverwinter which had been fixed in STO to remain well into open beta is just stunningly inept.
Cryptic seems to have a corporate culture that completely discounts input from outside testers. Sort of you're a dev or you're little people attitude.
I am really surprised the amount of people are defending Cryptic on this. I underestimated the fanboy-ism. It is the company's responsibility to protect the game from cheaters and exploiters. Cheating, hacking and exploiting is just the nature of technology and the proper protections have to be put in place.
Cryptic needs to be held responsible for this.
Wrong
Cheating, hacking and exploiting isn't the nature of technology, it's the nature of criminals, it's the nature of people that don't have the correct morals and principles.
Every person has a choice of whether to do thing right or wrong. Each choice has it's pros and cons.
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melanko0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Cryptic seems to have a corporate culture that completely discounts input from outside testers. Sort of you're a dev or you're little people attitude.
Which is sad because the companies with the highest level of security actually had paid bug bounties where info security enthusiasts can actually get paid for finding exploits and responsibly disclosing them (Facebook/Google).
not to mention the poor response team, which makes a tiny buffer overflow exploit require massive rollbacks and insane downtimes, and this problem will persist for months now that the exploiters already made their money, destabilising the economy for legit players who are already challenged by the poor drop rates of nearly all the mobs in the game up to lvl60
the important thing to remember is that this was an integer overflow exploit, not really a security industry problem; consider cryptographic keys computing have a lifetime of applied mathematics in elliptical maths and entropy generation -- now that's what i would call the security industry. If a 2 year old burns the house down because of a chinese electronic toy, doesn't make him an expert arsonist...
Comments
When someone cheats.. at a game of all things, whether it's a video game or Chutes and Ladders, Monopoly, Scrabble, etc.. it's just.. really? How lame are you?
Say your team are all legit players. The other team is all decked out in uber gears and enchants via cheats. It's no fun getting steamrolled.
When one team or player has an unfair advantage, it breaks the game for everyone else that worked hard to stay competitive. It's really that simple.
As of this morning, a lot of people were exploiting this, as evidenced by all the -AD bids in the AH. Now if they all get the banhammer, and the game resets (or a new fresh server created), the playing field is even.
Right now, its broken.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Stop trying to make lame and completely false excuses.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.
Your excuse with the bank account just shows what kind of human being you are. I am sorry, but DECENT human beings have the ability to rationalize what is right and what is wrong, and do what is right REGARDLESS of if the know they will get caught or not, or if everyone else around them is doing it too. This goes for real life or in a game world. In fact, in a game there is less chance of anything negative happening to yourself if you do find an exploit and abuse it, and it takes a stronger person to report it and move one and not take advantage of it.
Frankly, it is just a matter of doing what's right or being held accountable if you choose to do whats wrong. Anything else is just some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trying trying to justify his wrong doings by point the finger at everyone else. It is why the world is going down the drain, because self entitled people that assume everything is for them and they can take it regardless of who it affects.
Will a hacker/exploiter be caught and punished? Yes and rightly so. But it goes to show that the responsibility of the company is to protect it's users information and assets. Failure to do so is a problem. So the only people I can blame at this time is the Cryptic developers and QA for not properly spotting a problem like this already and fixing it immediately.
Luckily the exploiters went all out when this was discovered. All we needed was for it to be discovered and only utilized subtly so it would go undetected.
The same solid logic used by most of the people currently sitting in a jail cell. Example a. someone leaves there keys in there car lets steal it. or b. let them know and be a responsible citizen hmmm.. its easy to tell who the people are with the questionable morals. It's a shame that so many gamers in this digital age seem unable to associate the two and think its just ok.
And this happens even without the exploiters. You have people here that have paid for AD and gear, or were Founders that started 7 days ahead of everyone else.
After they rollback alot of the exploited accounts or outright ban them, we will have to see where we stand.
Wiping the servers just puts everyone back to 0 so those who did not get an early start can try to get ahead. It won't change the economy in any way.
When you're a company like Cryptic who has clearly designed games before AND stand on the shoulders of all the examples that came before there isn't much excuse for allowing the frankly absurd levels of game mechanic abuse, rampant exploit, and completely amateur level of mistakes.
Blaming the exploiters is like the Frog blaming the Scorpion for being a Scorpion (google it). Exploiters are going to happen and people will abuse, exploit and take advantage of anything you let them. It is their nature. When you allow anyone to participate in your product that will include the Scorpions. A toxic player base has always come with F2P games because they have nothing to lose. Cryptic chose this design and the player base that comes with it.
To not place all and complete blame on Cryptic is simply faulty and wrong. It's your denial of the situation. There can be no one else to blame. This is why games used to have real open betas where information was wiped, so "scorpions" (who can't help themselves) exploit and you catch it before any real harm is done. Cryptic was the one who limited access to open beta in order to push sales. It's not these legitimate customers that you need to test your game and show you the real flaws.
Cryptic engineered the situation in which has taken place. They made their bed and now they get to sleep in it. Many years from now when all of us are looking back we're going think back on this and it will be impossible to not associate Neverwinter or Cryptic without disdainfully thinking of all the bugs, exploits and otherwise that they let (and continue) to run rampant.
Exactly. At first I was pissed off at the exploiters, but why? When a greedy company allows cash purchases during an untested Open Beta, why blame people trying take advantage of their incompetence?
I never cheated or exploited myself, but I did profit from it by getting a few dirt cheap cats and mounts.
Hoping they dont wipe so I get to keep all my stuff, and knowing Cryptic, I know they won't.
Actually, it's more like a bank has their vault undergoing security tests, and one of the security team found a way to get in and steal the money. Then the bank gets angry at the security testers for having broken in which was their job to do in the 1st place.
Did the exploiters take it a little far? Yes. Did the exploiters do something wrong in the 1st place? No. The game is in open beta, and that means it's undergoing a process in which it relies on the player base to test the games limits, and to find anything that could be game breaking.
If this had happened while the game was LIVE, I would be going ape**** but it didn't. It happened during a beta phase. I'm glad that the problem was caught and fixed in beta stage.
you just went full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> man...never go full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
Like many others, you have serious thinking errors.
1. It's never the victims fault.
2. You are trying to justify doing something that's wrong.
3. You are trying to redirect the blame.
Examples of the victims fault thinking error:
A thief mugs someone for $100, it isn't the thief's fault, it's the guy that got mugged fault for carrying $100.
A girl gets <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...It isn't the rapists fault, it was her fault because of the way she looked.
Examples of justification:
I did it because everyone else was.
If they didn't want it they should have did something about it.
Example of trying to redirect the blame:
It's not my fault, he just left it there.
To put it simply, the blame falls solely on the people that choose the do wrong .
Because this bug existed a year ago in Star Trek Online and took Cryptic months to fix. The bug was discovered in Neverwinter Closed Beta and reported. When the game went Open Beta people tried it and found that it was still there. Surprised this only blew up recently. Maybe some folks were using it quietly so as to gain huge amounts of AD and remain under the radar for the last few weeks.
Yes let's blame the exploiters but Cryptic has to take some of the blame. Using old buggy code in Neverwinter which had been fixed in STO to remain well into open beta is just stunningly inept.
The economy has been screwed for weeks now because people heavily exploited the game using a variety of exploits, muled away the ill gotten goods, had their main account banned, and then never had their alt accounts touched allowing them to make thousands of dollars (so they claim). The multiple millions that people are trading for high end items didn't just come from Founder Packs and it sure as hell didn't come from the paltry thousands you can earn each day through legitimate means.
Last night I sold a number of items that were "legtimately" priced. They were likely purchased with ill gotten AD or flat out exploit. This happened for a number of people. There's no way you can control that with targeted roll backs without rolling back the whole system. They might get a few big cash cow accounts but there's literally thousands accounts affected by the AH/AD exploits. To be ignorant of that not having an effect doesn't mean it will actually have no effect.
The rot is there. They can either purge it and start over without the rot or keep trying to triage it. They seem hell bent on triaging it and trying to keep ahead of it but they never will. They're letting critical game mechanic abuses and exploits run rampant which is just wrecking their game. The rot is deep.
the game is in BETA
bugs are supposed to exist
if someone finds a bug and uses it to their advantage then so what ?
if they're going to ban people for it then don't call the game BETA
awesome post
When they use the exploit to steal RL money from the company, then yes they should be banned. BETA or not.
Cryptic needs to be held responsible for this.
If someone finds a bug it's their responsibility to report it and NOT use it to their advantage. People with correct morals and principles know this.
I'll let George Carlin speak for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX7bfDT_Yok
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Bing bing bing!
These AD/AH exploits been going on for a while now. All the Diamonds didn't get created from thin air. You can only earn so much in a day and certainly not the multi-millions that are being slung around. While certainly a good chunk was from Founder packs that doesn't account for the many millions that items are going for these days.
Cryptic seems to have a corporate culture that completely discounts input from outside testers. Sort of you're a dev or you're little people attitude.
Wrong
Cheating, hacking and exploiting isn't the nature of technology, it's the nature of criminals, it's the nature of people that don't have the correct morals and principles.
Every person has a choice of whether to do thing right or wrong. Each choice has it's pros and cons.
Which is sad because the companies with the highest level of security actually had paid bug bounties where info security enthusiasts can actually get paid for finding exploits and responsibly disclosing them (Facebook/Google).