It's not the Exploiter's fault they found an exploit and kept exploiting it.
rolls eye
When you are a beta tester you play to find and report faults or mistakes in the game so they can make it a stable platform to play. That is why you are playing, not to burn them for making the game, do what is right. To be a beta tester; report and make the game better for the sake of better gaming. if you exploit the game you only hurt yourself in the long run, only dishonest people need to get ahead by cheating the system. Integrity defined is, what you do when people are not looking. Like Matt Damon said in the movie "The Legend of Bagger Vance" when they told him he could get away from taking off a stroke and not win the game he told "Yes, but I'll know the ball moved", that is integrity. Apparently you share the same belief as the exploiters. Earn your levels work for them like the honest people do.
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree with the OP on this one PWE/Cryptic have bug reports of all this HAMSTER. These reports have been around for a long time. Lets look at them...
PvP AFK - This to me is the worse one... not only do they farm AD, destroy the glory market, they ruin other players fun. Foundry - exp from level 1-60 in less than 6 hrs. Farm unlimited heal pots, gold, and ID scrolls... sad thing this HAMSTER is still going on Dungeons - chain killing bosses... this one has been seen in every game... what a shocker it was found here too Crafting - Leadership is just messed up.. lets see 100 gold, AD 1million per day with your 20+ accounts using programs to automate gateway url clicks... Assuming your too lazy to even log in and do the same **** thing AH - not even going to go into this one Zen market - yup there are some nasty ones here too Class bugs - as a Tactics GF I found this one very amusing... considering how broken and unplayable all other specs are except the broken OP Conq build. I just love how PWE/Cryptic force you to pay to respec a broken class. Repeat Quests - seen in nearly have game I have ever played. Not really consider an exploit by most... but I will add it to the list. Harvesting Boxes - yup even a really ugly one here.. i will let you figure this one out
Now can anyone tell me how any of this even got through closed beta. 100% of these have been reported. 90% of them have been seen over and over in almost every game out there. I find it amazing that anyone is shocked by any of this... most of all PWE/Cryptic.
You leave a bone in the dogs dish and tell him not to eat it... most dogs even good dogs will eat it.
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
"Don't blame the thieves who stole your car. Blame the police for not being there." No thanks. I'm a sensible and reasonable person. I'm going to blame the thieves.
Yeah the exploiters are pathetic selfish rejects of society, but I don't think it really hurt the game as a whole.
If you think that a person's conduct in a video game, especially the conduct in question, makes them "pathetic selfish rejects of society", I'm pretty sure that makes you an actual sociopath.
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tyezMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
Sounds like an exploiter to me... Dont blame me for breaking the game and not reporting it.. blame them for not making the perfect game on their 1st try!!
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
"It's not the thief's fault that the store's security system was so poorly designed that it's riddled with flaws. Blame the store instead."
While I agree that something should have been done about the exploits, their existence in no way shape or form excuses the actions of those who took advantage of them. They not only cost the company lots of money by their actions, they managed to impede the enjoyment and actions of other customers (us) with relation to the product.
I'm surprised they are not pursuing legal/criminal action against these exploiters.
I agree with the OP on this one PWE/Cryptic have bug reports of all this HAMSTER. These reports have been around for a long time. Lets look at them...
PvP AFK - This to me is the worse one... not only do they farm AD, destroy the glory market, they ruin other players fun. Foundry - exp from level 1-60 in less than 6 hrs. Farm unlimited heal pots, gold, and ID scrolls... sad thing this HAMSTER is still going on Dungeons - chain killing bosses... this one has been seen in every game... what a shocker it was found here too Crafting - Leadership is just messed up.. lets see 100 gold, AD 1million per day with your 20+ accounts using programs to automate gateway url clicks... Assuming your too lazy to even log in and do the same **** thing AH - not even going to go into this one Zen market - yup there are some nasty ones here too Class bugs - as a Tactics GF I found this one very amusing... considering how broken and unplayable all other specs are except the broken OP Conq build. I just love how PWE/Cryptic force you to pay to respec a broken class. Repeat Quests - seen in nearly have game I have ever played. Not really consider an exploit by most... but I will add it to the list. Harvesting Boxes - yup even a really ugly one here.. i will let you figure this one out
Now can anyone tell me how any of this even got through closed beta. 100% of these have been reported. 90% of them have been seen over and over in almost every game out there. I find it amazing that anyone is shocked by any of this... most of all PWE/Cryptic.
You leave a bone in the dogs dish and tell him not to eat it... most dogs even good dogs will eat it.
There were bugs in wow's beta that continued even a few years after release. Loot bug anyone?
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juravianMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 63
What if you could log into your online banking using ALL CAPS and if you did it multiplied your savings by 1000? Yeah, you'd do it. And so would everyone else. And that wouldn't make you diseased, it would make you smart.
Sorry, no. Everyone else would not do this.
Any person with any kind of morals would call the bank and tell them of the error, and not try to steal money from the bank and other people.
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drexl420Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
You really don't understand how basic economics work, do you? The influx of millions upon millions of Astral Diamonds has caused the currency to become devalued to the point of being virtually useless. Look up the Weimar Republic and look what happened to that country. Or even Zimbabwe. Whenever excessive amounts of currency are introduced into a market, hyperinflation swiftly follows as the general price level within the given market skyrockets uncontrollably. Its economics 101
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mownage123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Really, there is no economy in the game. The AH has nothing on it worth buying other than consumables, or cosmetic stuff.
What it did do was rob Cryptic of cash since people were getting stuff for free instead of paying for it like a normal person.
Yeah the exploiters are pathetic selfish rejects of society, but I don't think it really hurt the game as a whole.
Not sure what's confusing about exploiting players having a billion AD to buy whatever gears, enchants they want, while other players spent days/weeks and/or cash to acquire the same items. It not only robbed Cryptic but the non cheating players that invested their time and money into this game, that just no longer has a level playing field. That's game-breaking.
If you think that a person's conduct in a video game, especially the conduct in question, makes them "pathetic selfish rejects of society", I'm pretty sure that makes you an actual sociopath.
How does that make him a sociopath? It makes him a sociopath to think that people who do things intentionally knowing it impacts on other people's enjoyment and purposely do things because they want to see something crash and burn? You realize how many people are on the internet who would love to destroy a company just because they can gloat that they had the power to do so? People who intentionally grief others just to see them rage and get upset? Why do you feel someone is less accountable for their behavior in a game than in real life? Is it simply because they're "Anonymous"? Sorry, if someone is a jerk in a video game I'm going to view them as a jerk irl.
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I do agree this is beta. However it is very ballzy to release a pay system in a beta game. Then tell everyone there is no wipes in a beta game. There is a reason why you wipe beta... my previous post is a very small list of the reasons why.
To make matters worse... in the end PWE/Cryptic may even cut their own wrists because of this very risk manuver. If history has proven anything broken MMO releases kill games. The MMO graveyard is full of games that have made mistakes like this.
Nice false equivalency there. So you're actually comparing taking advantage of a bug inside a video game to gain an advantage (not illegal), to killing people (illegal)? Wow, you're an idiot.
It says so in the rules exploiting is against the rules. There is not excuse why someone would exploit, if you found a flaw, report it and move on, not abuse it all day to get stuff faster.
The blame falls on both of them. The exploiters knew what they where doing. They knew the risks, and they knew what it would do to the game. But Cryptic is NOT without blame as much as some of the fanboys want to claim otherwise. Companies need to stop doing these bull**** closed beta weekends that they use as timed free press weekends and get back to the old beta systems. Sure, games have always had bugs but the quality of launches have gotten much worse. If you look at games that do the BS beta weekend HAMSTER those games usually have some MAJOR exploits at launch/OB compared to focused testing or "always open" invited beta tests. Thoes games usually just have several minor bugs and maybe a couple gamebreaking bugs (quests not working ect) but very few ever have game-changing exploits let alone multiple ones like this game has had.
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
No, blame the exploiters.
Look, there are going to be loopholes and bugs in games. Everyone knows this, even the developers. That's why they have everyone agree to a Terms of Service or EULA before playing the game. You know, the one that says "I won't abuse bugs".
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shroommageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Op is a exploiter trying to justify his exploiting lol.
It is like a bank robber saying the vault was open I had to steal the money, not my fault it is the banks.
Nice ad hominem.
It's more like a customer at a bank saying it's the bank's fault for leaving the vault open.
If your game is riddled with cheaters, guess where the problem lies. If the cheaters go unpunished, everyone else is penalized. It is the responsibility of the developer to prevent and punish cheating. The honor system isn't really a great model for a video game.
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juravianMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 63
If you think that a person's conduct in a video game, especially the conduct in question, makes them "pathetic selfish rejects of society", I'm pretty sure that makes you an actual sociopath.
I think you have no clue what a sociopath is. You should look it up sometime so you know what a word means before you use it.
People who exploit or cheat, and rob a company of funds, are indeed pathetic. It is no different than robbing a store. They stole from a company and would likely do the same in RL if they had the chance.
Not sure what's confusing about exploiting players having a billion AD to buy whatever gears, enchants they want, while other players spent days/weeks and/or cash to acquire the same items. It not only robbed Cryptic but the non cheating players that invested their time and money into this game, that just no longer has a level playing field. That's game-breaking.
Yeah, I get that they stole from the company, but how does this hurt the economy in the game?
It doesn't. It might make some people jealous that they don't have the stuff that someone else has, but that's going to happen even without the exploiters.
How is there not a level playing field? You can still get the same gear as anyone else. You still have control over your own toon, and it does not take away from your gameplay at all. So what exactly is broken about the game?
My point is that the game is NOT broken, there is no economy to begin with, and people need to play the game and have fun and not worry about what someone else has.
Let Cryptic deal with the exploiters, and move on.
I think you have no clue what a sociopath is. You should look it up sometime so you know what a word means before you use it.
People who exploit or cheat, and rob a company of funds, are indeed pathetic. It is no different than robbing a store. They stole from a company and would likely do the same in RL if they had the chance.
Personally I find it pathetic that companies don't have more protection if they're based online. An mmo company for instance is expected to have their own security, their own teams, and to police their own game which is what I don't get. I don't get why scripters for instance cannot be punished by law. People aren't expected to protect their own physical businesses. It's like saying if someone robs a store "That store owner should have had a gun. Oh, the crooks had more guns and more friends? It's the store's fault. They should have hired more guards. Should have had more security who were better armed and trained." People put more pressure and have higher expectations on online companies than they do real live physical ones.
If the exploits were known about and reported during closed beta then both the exploiters and cryptic are to blame.
The exploiters for taking advantage, and cryptic for not doing their jobs and releasing a product, more importantly taking money with these exploits still unresolved.
This is still open Beta. Technically speaking, its the job of all of us as testers if we find these exploits to report them, not abuse them. Guess where i put the blame?
Look, there are going to be loopholes and bugs in games. Everyone knows this, even the developers. That's why they have everyone agree to a Terms of Service or EULA before playing the game. You know, the one that says "I won't abuse bugs".
In a perfect world everyone does the right thing. From what i have seen in Video games that is hardly the case. Quick example, "GW2" currency farming. Nearly 100% of the population that could do it, did it. The zones were spammed with 1000s of people doing it. After it was "fixed" within 1 hour another exploit was found and again EVERYONE was doing it again. Funny thing is even those that complained and reported it... didn't stop.
With that said did I now about the AH bug, yes. Did I use it, no... why? The only reason I didn't is because I want to feel that rush when I get the drop from the boss I kill. Though at the same time I felt tempted either way not because I care about the AD. It was more of an annoyance at PWE/Cryptic for letting PvP afkers ruin hours of my game time. Not to mention I am really upset with them for not releasing 1 fix for GF and forcing me to pay them cash to respec completely broken class. Messed up perhaps... but that was my thought process.
It's not the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly designed and coded that its riddled with ten billion exploits. blame cryptic instead
It IS the exploiters fault, that is like blaming the (Insert word that rhymes with grape due to profanity filter) victim.. So essentially you are saying "Cryptic had it comin!" huh?
Well to cheaters, exploiters and farmers I say this.
NO NO.. dont let this get out of hand guys, the OP is right
He is right in saying that its NOT the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly ****ing designed and encoded, that is down to cryptic
However he is whole hearted wrong in every other aspect that he insinuates, it IS the fault of the exploiter when they use it to gain an advantage over other players, be that electronicly or physically, in this case, BOTH
Do not make excuses being them legit or otherwise for people who make up their own minds based on what they can gain from it, these people will never be trusted in real life and if i had my own way to deal with em, id put a bullet in each of their brains and wash my hands of it
Cryptic is at fault for a badly coded game
Exploiters are at fault for being plain bad human beings
Mix the two together and u get a result like this one every single time
Comments
When you are a beta tester you play to find and report faults or mistakes in the game so they can make it a stable platform to play. That is why you are playing, not to burn them for making the game, do what is right. To be a beta tester; report and make the game better for the sake of better gaming. if you exploit the game you only hurt yourself in the long run, only dishonest people need to get ahead by cheating the system. Integrity defined is, what you do when people are not looking. Like Matt Damon said in the movie "The Legend of Bagger Vance" when they told him he could get away from taking off a stroke and not win the game he told "Yes, but I'll know the ball moved", that is integrity. Apparently you share the same belief as the exploiters. Earn your levels work for them like the honest people do.
PvP AFK - This to me is the worse one... not only do they farm AD, destroy the glory market, they ruin other players fun.
Foundry - exp from level 1-60 in less than 6 hrs. Farm unlimited heal pots, gold, and ID scrolls... sad thing this HAMSTER is still going on
Dungeons - chain killing bosses... this one has been seen in every game... what a shocker it was found here too
Crafting - Leadership is just messed up.. lets see 100 gold, AD 1million per day with your 20+ accounts using programs to automate gateway url clicks... Assuming your too lazy to even log in and do the same **** thing
AH - not even going to go into this one
Zen market - yup there are some nasty ones here too
Class bugs - as a Tactics GF I found this one very amusing... considering how broken and unplayable all other specs are except the broken OP Conq build. I just love how PWE/Cryptic force you to pay to respec a broken class.
Repeat Quests - seen in nearly have game I have ever played. Not really consider an exploit by most... but I will add it to the list.
Harvesting Boxes - yup even a really ugly one here.. i will let you figure this one out
Now can anyone tell me how any of this even got through closed beta. 100% of these have been reported. 90% of them have been seen over and over in almost every game out there. I find it amazing that anyone is shocked by any of this... most of all PWE/Cryptic.
You leave a bone in the dogs dish and tell him not to eat it... most dogs even good dogs will eat it.
"Don't blame the thieves who stole your car. Blame the police for not being there." No thanks. I'm a sensible and reasonable person. I'm going to blame the thieves.
GENIUS!!
*facepalm*
"It's not the thief's fault that the store's security system was so poorly designed that it's riddled with flaws. Blame the store instead."
While I agree that something should have been done about the exploits, their existence in no way shape or form excuses the actions of those who took advantage of them. They not only cost the company lots of money by their actions, they managed to impede the enjoyment and actions of other customers (us) with relation to the product.
I'm surprised they are not pursuing legal/criminal action against these exploiters.
There were bugs in wow's beta that continued even a few years after release. Loot bug anyone?
Sorry, no. Everyone else would not do this.
Any person with any kind of morals would call the bank and tell them of the error, and not try to steal money from the bank and other people.
You really don't understand how basic economics work, do you? The influx of millions upon millions of Astral Diamonds has caused the currency to become devalued to the point of being virtually useless. Look up the Weimar Republic and look what happened to that country. Or even Zimbabwe. Whenever excessive amounts of currency are introduced into a market, hyperinflation swiftly follows as the general price level within the given market skyrockets uncontrollably. Its economics 101
Not sure what's confusing about exploiting players having a billion AD to buy whatever gears, enchants they want, while other players spent days/weeks and/or cash to acquire the same items. It not only robbed Cryptic but the non cheating players that invested their time and money into this game, that just no longer has a level playing field. That's game-breaking.
How does that make him a sociopath? It makes him a sociopath to think that people who do things intentionally knowing it impacts on other people's enjoyment and purposely do things because they want to see something crash and burn? You realize how many people are on the internet who would love to destroy a company just because they can gloat that they had the power to do so? People who intentionally grief others just to see them rage and get upset? Why do you feel someone is less accountable for their behavior in a game than in real life? Is it simply because they're "Anonymous"? Sorry, if someone is a jerk in a video game I'm going to view them as a jerk irl.
To make matters worse... in the end PWE/Cryptic may even cut their own wrists because of this very risk manuver. If history has proven anything broken MMO releases kill games. The MMO graveyard is full of games that have made mistakes like this.
It says so in the rules exploiting is against the rules. There is not excuse why someone would exploit, if you found a flaw, report it and move on, not abuse it all day to get stuff faster.
No, blame the exploiters.
Look, there are going to be loopholes and bugs in games. Everyone knows this, even the developers. That's why they have everyone agree to a Terms of Service or EULA before playing the game. You know, the one that says "I won't abuse bugs".
Nice ad hominem.
It's more like a customer at a bank saying it's the bank's fault for leaving the vault open.
If your game is riddled with cheaters, guess where the problem lies. If the cheaters go unpunished, everyone else is penalized. It is the responsibility of the developer to prevent and punish cheating. The honor system isn't really a great model for a video game.
I think you have no clue what a sociopath is. You should look it up sometime so you know what a word means before you use it.
People who exploit or cheat, and rob a company of funds, are indeed pathetic. It is no different than robbing a store. They stole from a company and would likely do the same in RL if they had the chance.
Yeah, I get that they stole from the company, but how does this hurt the economy in the game?
It doesn't. It might make some people jealous that they don't have the stuff that someone else has, but that's going to happen even without the exploiters.
How is there not a level playing field? You can still get the same gear as anyone else. You still have control over your own toon, and it does not take away from your gameplay at all. So what exactly is broken about the game?
My point is that the game is NOT broken, there is no economy to begin with, and people need to play the game and have fun and not worry about what someone else has.
Let Cryptic deal with the exploiters, and move on.
Personally I find it pathetic that companies don't have more protection if they're based online. An mmo company for instance is expected to have their own security, their own teams, and to police their own game which is what I don't get. I don't get why scripters for instance cannot be punished by law. People aren't expected to protect their own physical businesses. It's like saying if someone robs a store "That store owner should have had a gun. Oh, the crooks had more guns and more friends? It's the store's fault. They should have hired more guards. Should have had more security who were better armed and trained." People put more pressure and have higher expectations on online companies than they do real live physical ones.
The exploiters for taking advantage, and cryptic for not doing their jobs and releasing a product, more importantly taking money with these exploits still unresolved.
In a perfect world everyone does the right thing. From what i have seen in Video games that is hardly the case. Quick example, "GW2" currency farming. Nearly 100% of the population that could do it, did it. The zones were spammed with 1000s of people doing it. After it was "fixed" within 1 hour another exploit was found and again EVERYONE was doing it again. Funny thing is even those that complained and reported it... didn't stop.
With that said did I now about the AH bug, yes. Did I use it, no... why? The only reason I didn't is because I want to feel that rush when I get the drop from the boss I kill. Though at the same time I felt tempted either way not because I care about the AD. It was more of an annoyance at PWE/Cryptic for letting PvP afkers ruin hours of my game time. Not to mention I am really upset with them for not releasing 1 fix for GF and forcing me to pay them cash to respec completely broken class. Messed up perhaps... but that was my thought process.
It IS the exploiters fault, that is like blaming the (Insert word that rhymes with grape due to profanity filter) victim.. So essentially you are saying "Cryptic had it comin!" huh?
Well to cheaters, exploiters and farmers I say this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaKj9iISQUE
totally agree with this. A new shard for those who want a fresh start with a clean economy.
So when your child is so poorly dressed and lacking experience in self defense, blame yourself when they get taken advantage of.
I love the logic game!
That is like saying don't blame people blame guns...
No regardless of what faults or exploits are there, we, as thinking human beings, have the ability to NOT take advantage of an exploit.
He is right in saying that its NOT the exploiters fault that the game is so poorly ****ing designed and encoded, that is down to cryptic
However he is whole hearted wrong in every other aspect that he insinuates, it IS the fault of the exploiter when they use it to gain an advantage over other players, be that electronicly or physically, in this case, BOTH
Do not make excuses being them legit or otherwise for people who make up their own minds based on what they can gain from it, these people will never be trusted in real life and if i had my own way to deal with em, id put a bullet in each of their brains and wash my hands of it
Cryptic is at fault for a badly coded game
Exploiters are at fault for being plain bad human beings
Mix the two together and u get a result like this one every single time