As a founder and someone who's happily sunk plenty of cash into this game my concerns are what I'd call realistic.
1. Figure out the exploits performed. Make it so that it can't happen again.
2. Deal with the people who preformed these exploits accordingly. Capture their mac addresses, their credit cards and IP space if not natted and email addresses. Ban the accounts. Hopefully by exploiting your software they took enough money for you to pursue legal action.
3. If you can't track down all the items/AD/transactions linked to this simply roll back to a date where you can without any doubt believe it's safe.
We just want to play, you made a great game. Fix your issues and let's move on.
If they are only going to ban the cheaters for 72 hours that is bs. They should be ban from this game for life and their IP address so they can not make other acct's up. It is a shame that the few bad apples always have to ruin it for the rest of us honest players.
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w0lfpcakfanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The damage is already done. Banning/limited wipes doesn't cure the problem, it is just a insulation of the problem. To say "we have done something" to the folks. A guy on this one website I seen today, managed to exploit this from the beginning. He has several accounts, exploited on Account A and B transferred it to legit new Accounts C, D, and E. Give many items to normal Players, and friends too.
If they want "ban" then they must literally ban all accounts which were affected of this. They cant really do anything to clean up all of this. This guy exploited thousands of millions of diamonds, and he was not alone.
It's pretty amateur hour that Cryptic didn't plan on people using the program they used for this (not going to name it, but it is a very well know tool for this type of thing). Really drops my faith that they have the right people in the right positions managing this game.
Oh PLEASE do a full wipe! then the little jerk that wrote: I WILL QUIT! I will tell everyone who as played D& D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. will QUIT. Then the people like myself, that have been playing D&D for the last 30+ yrs can have fun without whining little 14 yr old kids flashing around the bazaar on their hobby horses as if they were 4. GRIN
Don't Mess with the Affairs of Dragons for you are Crunchy and Good with KETCHUP!!:p
At least I can give you some comforting feedback. IF they did ever do a wipe, they would use the same procedures they have demonstrated both here and in STO. In the case of Neverwinter a lot of us bought Zen during the closed weekends. When they did the server wipe, all zen was re-applied back to our store account, so that we could re-purchase whatever items we wanted again. I also went on a crazy spending spree with my AD during closed beta, and when they did the wipe, all of that AD was refunded back to me as well.
As long as we acquired our funds and resources following the game rules, we have nothing to worry about. I hope this helps
It is comforting, actually, to know that they have past actions like that. It makes me have a bit more hope towards a good solution, one way or another. I'll leave it up to the people who actually know what they're doing!
Why the hell put an real money Shop in Beta phase ?? are u stupid or just greedy ?...Beta phase = bug correction right ?
i think that was the major mistake!
if there wasnt cash shop, wipe already done right now.
I think I represent a little-heard majority of gamers when I say I don't much care if you roll back. Don't much care if you wipe. This is a free game, I've been enjoying it, I'll keep playing it. I'd never in my life pay real money in a beta game, so I've never had those kinds of worries. If there's a 24-48 hour rollback, I'll just power through all the work I've done. If there's (ever) a wipe, I've already thought long and hard about changes I'll make to how I play the next time around. It's a beta game, I expect bumps along the way, don't know of a released MMO that didn't go through (sometimes major) growing pains during the beta. The addition of real money transactions within beta games is a very troubling modern development, but I've already made a commitment to myself that until a game goes live, I don't consider it a finished product and it is not yet worthy of my cash. This isn't an indie game or an indie company, they by no means need my money to continue development or survive. This is a multi-million dollar enterprise. For a previous poster who said that beta is for finding bugs, not making money, I have to disagree. In this day-and-age, it has become both. Buyer beware.
Meanwhile, best of luck to the devs getting this sorted out.
For I prefer no wipe just because we don't know the true facts of the case and to make a decision without all the information is well, fool-hardy. It's easy to complain but much harder to fix the fundamental flaws. A wipe is just a shortcut not what I would consider a true fix.
That said I would prefer the solution is to permanently ban all toons that have gained 10k in AD or more and let the rest of the community move forward. The message should be clear. If you use an exploit for your own personal gain, you run the chance of losing your toon. Sure they can come back, but all the mules and any other related toon should be perma-banned.
If your familiar with the 2008 financial meltodwn the reason is simply "moral hazard". You don't want people thinking using an exploit won't have any consequence, therefore perma-ban the toon, give them slots to make new toons with but leave the old one locked and visible as sign of what not to do in the future.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
How hard is it to find a problem, fix it, and IP ban all those ******s?
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defective14Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
There needs to be a complete wipe, refund all zen and AD, and start new...We need to speak out and let these people know we are tired of this type of business practice.
No, no, aaaaaaaaaaaand, no. You don't know what you're talking about and are adding nothing of value to what the Developers are already doing.
Why the ignorant choose to open their mouth to a situation they know nothing about is beyond me.
We've made a decision on making a decision, and have decided to make that decision on a decision when we have collected all our facts need to make that decision. We do expect this decision to come shortly after we have made it.
They've formed a committee to determine the members of the committee that will decide how many subcommittees will be needed to fully analyze this issue.
If only it were politics, we wouldn't be waiting for an answer, we'd have given up by now.
xerokewlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2013
I thought that WoW and Age of Conan had bad launchs but this one makes them look not so bad unfixed yet reported bugs Selling store items in a BETA seems alittle suspicious
We've made a decision on making a decision, and have decided to make that decision on a decision when we have collected all our facts need to make that decision. We do expect this decision to come shortly after we have made it.
Further info forthcoming on the gathering of data to formulate a decision about what information is needed in the case where a decision may be reached within the current session set to occur on or before the date of the gathering of the info necessary to provide a basis for deciding the proper course of action in regards to the effect intended.
Not understanding why you wouldn't just shut the servers down due to the severity of this exploit. The economy of the game is broken in so many ways that no amount of traced bans will solve it, I fail to see what "data" needs to be collected for you guys to understand that simple concept.
Well lets see... given that a 24 hour rollback if they decide to go that extreme would wipe pretty much all of this particular problem away, I can imagine that:
1. If you use a little creative thinking and deductive reasoning, its possible servers where left up in order to observe the players and the AH to see who was clearlyt abusing. Makes the job of gathering data a lot easier when you watch the ppl in action while they think they are unobserved.... ya? That too complicated to understand?
2. Its just possible that for the brilliant geniuses who exacerbated this problem exponentially by hollering out the lame brained "warnings to devs" in zone chat in game were totally unaware that this was a Sunday. While community managers and GMs are generally online watching Zone chat, about the worst way to go about getting something done while keeping knowledge of it down to a minimum is to start hollering about it in zone chat, expecting that there is some kind of direct channel to the server killswitch sitting next to some community manager's desk. LMAO... Seriously? WHat did ppl expect to see happen as they started panicing and shouting out about an AH exploit that was putting billions of ADs in exploiters pockets? No, NO ONE is gonna go google and find explicit instructions on how to use this exploit now that they've been told about it by well meaning but incredibly stupid ppl in zone chat. Next time the ppl posting in the forums should have the sense to post in a PM or bug report that isn't open to th epublic eye. And ppl hollering in game should stop and think for a second about how little power the peons in game watching zone chat have when it comes to decisions as large and company affecting as unplanned server kills and downtimes.
3. So, its clear a lot of Chicken Little's are continuing the same kind of attitude, behavior and actions that led to this thing becoming such a large problem in the first place. Namely, getting over excited, running their mouths about things before actually having enough info to make any kind of informed decision... so, maybe all you children should turn your little computers off and go outside for a while. I can tell ya, the weather outside was great today where i live!
Get something straight... if you can't understand the way businesses and their chain of command works and why issues like this a just a little more complex than deciding who gets to pass out the graham crackers before nappy time in kindie garten, then maybe you should actually go get a real job for a few days and learn how the real world works.
No major lasting harm has been done. Things similar to this have happened in so many different games its a joke to even worry about it if youre not on teh company side. Lineage, gw2... theres a good one... you want to see a case of something similar to this but on a far larger scale? Look at GW2 after official release. That was on a scale large enough that it actually did break the economy.. it wasn't something limited enough in scale as to simply be a small hiccup the economy would hiccup and get over on its own over a small period of time. Yes, thats right... Believe it or not, far worse has happened to 9 out of 10 MMOs still alive and well out tehre today. Economies don't break games.. they can add a bit of depth, but in the end what... its impssible to go get 99% of the items in question from actually PLAYING the game?Lol.. go run a dungeon if youre worried about not ebing able to afford that uber rare weapon or armor.
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nodic3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Why wouldnt they just wipe items/currency (refunding pw rm zen purchases) and dish out level-scaled green item kits.
The big reason why most people who dont want a wipe don't want it is so they dont have to go thru the level grind again.
I really dont want to have to do that again, even tho I kinda enjoyed it. But I agree that a wipe will fix the issue best. Just let me keep my level!
shtzngigglzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Sorry but they will NOT do a character wipe. They have already said that if anything needs to be done to characters, it will be done to those characters who were involved in the use of the exploits. A game like this that depends on people spending real world $ will not do a wipe after tons of people have spent money on the game and bought founders packs etc. Please stop making people paranoid and putting word in the Dev's mouths, no mention of wipes has been talked about except for possibly those doing the exploiting.
Why the hell put an real money Shop in Beta phase ?? are u stupid or just greedy ?...Beta phase = bug correction right ?
i think that was the major mistake!
if there wasnt cash shop, wipe already done right now.
If it weren't for the people that have sunk some money into the game the game would mostly likely not be here. Just saying.
Don't feel bad... this just means that you probably have a real life. :P
You're cracking me up. It's good to see someone with a positive attitude. Thank you for post.
My unrelated thoughts on so many other posts...
Personally I've found the game perhaps a bit too easy to level up. I've only played casually about 2 weeks and I'm nearly done leveling up (54 or 55-ish) and I know if I really wanted to level up fast I'd have done so faster. Since I'm not really interested in repeated "end game" repeat runs/raids/dungeons/etc I'm not really sure what I plan on doing once I get to 60 and run out of the solo and small group content. Maybe start another character.
As far as the current kerfuffle I'd like to say I can't believe all the complaining people are doing but I've seen too many things like this happen in too many games and people will always whine. All the arguments for there "needs" to be a wipe or not are simultaneously funny and pointless. There doesn't "need" to be anything. The game developers will determine what they feel is needed and our feedback is only that, feedback. We aren't going to force them.
Regardless of whether there is a wipe or not at some future point there will always be people who demand the opposite, make threats if their wants (not needs, wants) are not met, and will presume they know best. In the end it's almost a certainty that the final decision will be made based not on the squeaky wheel that posts loudest and most often but on whatever the analysts determine will net the game the most money. Our only options are to post feedback and, if we ultimately disagree, stop supporting it by no longer paying money or choosing to play the game. Anything more is about as effective as spitting in the wind.
Wow! Can I borough your T.A.R.D.I.S. cause in my little section of the time space continuum it's still down?
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internatioMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well... I Am So Glad I Didn't Buy Any Of Those Astral Diamonds Or Gold From One Of Those Sites That Popped Up All The Time|I Was Close To Buying Though
P.s Where Is The Sword Mage Class They Show In The Begining Scene!!!
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defective14Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Comments
If they want "ban" then they must literally ban all accounts which were affected of this. They cant really do anything to clean up all of this. This guy exploited thousands of millions of diamonds, and he was not alone.
It's pretty amateur hour that Cryptic didn't plan on people using the program they used for this (not going to name it, but it is a very well know tool for this type of thing). Really drops my faith that they have the right people in the right positions managing this game.
I was under the impression that "Soon" was Trademarked by another MMO . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I want a cake!!!!!!!!!
It is comforting, actually, to know that they have past actions like that. It makes me have a bit more hope towards a good solution, one way or another. I'll leave it up to the people who actually know what they're doing!
i think that was the major mistake!
if there wasnt cash shop, wipe already done right now.
Meanwhile, best of luck to the devs getting this sorted out.
That said I would prefer the solution is to permanently ban all toons that have gained 10k in AD or more and let the rest of the community move forward. The message should be clear. If you use an exploit for your own personal gain, you run the chance of losing your toon. Sure they can come back, but all the mules and any other related toon should be perma-banned.
If your familiar with the 2008 financial meltodwn the reason is simply "moral hazard". You don't want people thinking using an exploit won't have any consequence, therefore perma-ban the toon, give them slots to make new toons with but leave the old one locked and visible as sign of what not to do in the future.
No, no, aaaaaaaaaaaand, no. You don't know what you're talking about and are adding nothing of value to what the Developers are already doing.
Why the ignorant choose to open their mouth to a situation they know nothing about is beyond me.
They've formed a committee to determine the members of the committee that will decide how many subcommittees will be needed to fully analyze this issue.
If only it were politics, we wouldn't be waiting for an answer, we'd have given up by now.
All of this is true and majority of players knew it already
Just sayin' because it's true: Trailturtle, you are a class act. Good on ya!
Further info forthcoming on the gathering of data to formulate a decision about what information is needed in the case where a decision may be reached within the current session set to occur on or before the date of the gathering of the info necessary to provide a basis for deciding the proper course of action in regards to the effect intended.
Well lets see... given that a 24 hour rollback if they decide to go that extreme would wipe pretty much all of this particular problem away, I can imagine that:
1. If you use a little creative thinking and deductive reasoning, its possible servers where left up in order to observe the players and the AH to see who was clearlyt abusing. Makes the job of gathering data a lot easier when you watch the ppl in action while they think they are unobserved.... ya? That too complicated to understand?
2. Its just possible that for the brilliant geniuses who exacerbated this problem exponentially by hollering out the lame brained "warnings to devs" in zone chat in game were totally unaware that this was a Sunday. While community managers and GMs are generally online watching Zone chat, about the worst way to go about getting something done while keeping knowledge of it down to a minimum is to start hollering about it in zone chat, expecting that there is some kind of direct channel to the server killswitch sitting next to some community manager's desk. LMAO... Seriously? WHat did ppl expect to see happen as they started panicing and shouting out about an AH exploit that was putting billions of ADs in exploiters pockets? No, NO ONE is gonna go google and find explicit instructions on how to use this exploit now that they've been told about it by well meaning but incredibly stupid ppl in zone chat. Next time the ppl posting in the forums should have the sense to post in a PM or bug report that isn't open to th epublic eye. And ppl hollering in game should stop and think for a second about how little power the peons in game watching zone chat have when it comes to decisions as large and company affecting as unplanned server kills and downtimes.
3. So, its clear a lot of Chicken Little's are continuing the same kind of attitude, behavior and actions that led to this thing becoming such a large problem in the first place. Namely, getting over excited, running their mouths about things before actually having enough info to make any kind of informed decision... so, maybe all you children should turn your little computers off and go outside for a while. I can tell ya, the weather outside was great today where i live!
Get something straight... if you can't understand the way businesses and their chain of command works and why issues like this a just a little more complex than deciding who gets to pass out the graham crackers before nappy time in kindie garten, then maybe you should actually go get a real job for a few days and learn how the real world works.
No major lasting harm has been done. Things similar to this have happened in so many different games its a joke to even worry about it if youre not on teh company side. Lineage, gw2... theres a good one... you want to see a case of something similar to this but on a far larger scale? Look at GW2 after official release. That was on a scale large enough that it actually did break the economy.. it wasn't something limited enough in scale as to simply be a small hiccup the economy would hiccup and get over on its own over a small period of time. Yes, thats right... Believe it or not, far worse has happened to 9 out of 10 MMOs still alive and well out tehre today. Economies don't break games.. they can add a bit of depth, but in the end what... its impssible to go get 99% of the items in question from actually PLAYING the game?Lol.. go run a dungeon if youre worried about not ebing able to afford that uber rare weapon or armor.
The big reason why most people who dont want a wipe don't want it is so they dont have to go thru the level grind again.
I really dont want to have to do that again, even tho I kinda enjoyed it. But I agree that a wipe will fix the issue best. Just let me keep my level!
and make a new event for wipe
you wanna see ppl have ad 999999999 with exploit are you f**k*ng kidding me?
Play offline if you wanna see like that
You're cracking me up. It's good to see someone with a positive attitude.
My unrelated thoughts on so many other posts...
Personally I've found the game perhaps a bit too easy to level up. I've only played casually about 2 weeks and I'm nearly done leveling up (54 or 55-ish) and I know if I really wanted to level up fast I'd have done so faster. Since I'm not really interested in repeated "end game" repeat runs/raids/dungeons/etc I'm not really sure what I plan on doing once I get to 60 and run out of the solo and small group content. Maybe start another character.
As far as the current kerfuffle I'd like to say I can't believe all the complaining people are doing but I've seen too many things like this happen in too many games and people will always whine. All the arguments for there "needs" to be a wipe or not are simultaneously funny and pointless. There doesn't "need" to be anything. The game developers will determine what they feel is needed and our feedback is only that, feedback. We aren't going to force them.
Regardless of whether there is a wipe or not at some future point there will always be people who demand the opposite, make threats if their wants (not needs, wants) are not met, and will presume they know best. In the end it's almost a certainty that the final decision will be made based not on the squeaky wheel that posts loudest and most often but on whatever the analysts determine will net the game the most money. Our only options are to post feedback and, if we ultimately disagree, stop supporting it by no longer paying money or choosing to play the game. Anything more is about as effective as spitting in the wind.
Wow! Can I borough your T.A.R.D.I.S. cause in my little section of the time space continuum it's still down?
P.s Where Is The Sword Mage Class They Show In The Begining Scene!!!
"The server is unavailable at this time."
Says Neverwinter.