It really isn't that complicated.
Leaving billions of AD/Zen sitting on Gold Farmer accounts would devalue the hell out of game currency.
Which would make it pretty **** hard for PWE to maintain Zen sales...
Free to Play only works if part of the player base is paying.
Seriously, PWE is a company, it does not exist for charity.
It needs to make a profit or it will fail.
So don't worry so much those of you screaming about mules;
a company is not going to leave massive outside controlled funds
on their own game servers where they are also trying to sell currency.
A lot of you are making it sound like refunding everything if they did wipe it would be a click of a button. It's A LOT of work to do all that refunding and whatnot. None of it is easy. Your idea is only good on paper, or in this case, pixels.
Those who spent money in a an open beta testing is simply foolish to begin with. Never would I spend my hard earned cash on anything in a beta testing. Tisk Tisk.
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defective14Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
People, can we please, please, PLEASE just let the Devs do what they need to do? I hope a lot of people realize that anything they do could potentially screw up the entire game and system therein. You don't want, I don't want it, we don't want it.
As a future Game Developer (I'm studying Game Production currently and will be graduating in November, plus I'm going to E3 next month), I am actually saddened at some of the replies here from people who don't know a **** thing about what it takes to run a MMO or to make sure nothing screws up with the fixes. Granted I don't either, but at least I have an idea and am studying the profession.
That being said, let the Devs work their magic, enjoy the game when the servers come back up, and as always: Good play!
I'm starting to think that the only option is an economy wipe. Not characters - just the economy.
Here's how I'm imagining this would work:
1) Wipe all AD from all accounts. (Founders starting AD would be reset).
2) Wipe all Zen from all accounts.
3) Refund back to PWE accounts all Zen bought with real money and transferred in Neverwinter. (eg, if you'd bought and transferred 15000 Zen into Neverwinter, you'd get 15000 Zen credited back to your PWE account. If you'd bought another 100000 Zen in game from the AD exchange, that is gone.)
4) Delete from all characters all items that are only purchasable with AD or Zen, including items that only drop from lockboxes like the Phoera.
5) Here's the hard part: The items sold on AH. I think they need to rollback all AH sales from the last 72 hours. Trouble is, I have no idea if they can actually do this short of a server-wide rollback. If they do do this rollback, Then I believe it would be wise for them to offer some form of compensation to reduce ragequits. I'd personally prefer this to not be anything that would impact the economy or game balance.
If they do all this, then it seems to me that the damage to the ongoing economy would be mostly undone, without the need to wipe characters.
Then again, I have no knowledge of whether all of this is actually possible with the way the game is designed.
Waiting for paladins...
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shadowwulf13Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
So people are mad they borrowed Zen (you dont OWN it you borrow it from PWE read your TOS)and might get screwed in the process of this issue with AD. Its Beta....
gonna go troll some wow boards till this is fixed..
There won't be a rollback as far as we can tell. "Gathering data" is pointless. There's no need together data. The data is in their face.
What's the point gathering data then a day down the road they decide to roll back. People lose 12+ hours of game play and especially people who only play the weekend and have no clue what's going on. That's going to effect them more than the rest of us on here who are weary not to get on.
"Gathering data" is pointless? Gathering data is important to any developer especially when it comes to an exploit and gathering information. Would you want some one to have an unfair advantage in a game that your particularly enjoy? Not just Neverwinter?
Well the point is that this is a open BETA, things are going to change as they do in a closed BETA, if a person doesn't like that then they didn't need to sign up for the open BETA knowing what you were getting into in the first place. Things are going to change for better for worse. They are collecting data for ingrates like you to make this game better so you can keep complaining about the changes that Cryptic makes. It's all a wait and see now. If you still don't like it after the changes are made, no one if forcing you to continue playing or to maintain an account.
To every one else that this message has possibly offended. I apologize. It's just that people that are similar to teldara don't realize no matter what the title of a beta is, be it closed or open it is still a beta. Things change, things get corrected, investigated or out right rewritten. All you can hope for is a playable product that keeps you entertained.
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daddyjackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
do not do a roll back, you are punishing everyone. I am not re leveling and waisting more time. Im done playing if you do
HaHa that has to be the funniest thing i have read yet on the forum today ... "wasting time"!!?? unless?? your making REAL money?
naa i'm sure that is not the case. but was funny either way.
Your getting it totally wrong.. Its the paying customers that want a wipe and the exploiters who dont. Does anyone stand to gain from them buying up any items that we want as players and no matter how much time/effort you spend doing it you will always be 2000 steps behind because of what they did. And everyone out there saying that they can track stuff is stupid. There is no mail logs, no logs for trading from person to person, so no matter how many of these obsolete accounts that have nothing on them by now that they ban. This exploit has been going since launch and they have so many alt accounts stocked with goods. Do you honestly think in any game so far that banning them has done any good at all.. poof they log in on their other accounts that are stocked and boom they all good with their pimped out 60s and so much stuff they can never spend it all.
its been stated that there will be no wipe at end of beta
It is not a test (beta) anymore; otherwise, they could just wipe it all and move along. The reason it is not beta and the biggest problem PW is still trying to figure out is what to do about what their PAYING CUSTOMERS have purchased. They can't screw them over or they will leave and there will be no reason to keep the game going.
Wipe, not likely because it would be too tramatic; however, a 24-48 hour rollback is the most likely outcome. As long as they can preserve the cash transactions that have occured. That is what everyone needs to remember, it is all about the paying customers as much as the naive masses would like to think it's about the broader (i.e, non-paying) playerbase.
after everything i have read here i want a full wipe too or i will dispute every charge i have made with paypal....if you guys know whats good for you you will do what your paying users want in this situation and that is a full wipe and a refund of all AD/Zen... thank you and good luck
I believe that constitutes fraud.
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shadowwulf13Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
So people are mad they borrowed Zen (you dont OWN it you borrow it from PWE read your TOS)and might get screwed in the process of this issue with AD. Its Beta....
gonna go troll some wow boards till this is fixed..
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steelpulseMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I seriously hope they decide not to do a wipe.
But if they do, please refund all zen to paying customers.
The company won't lose any $.
Zen can only spent in game & not at strip clubs or on prostitutes.
There will be no wipe!!!..i feel sry for those who just started this game..and have a lvl 30 char and wants a wipe ._. LOL
Ppl like me got alot play time here and we farmd all day to have our sets... they schould just ban all those dupers,exploit users and try to find out where all the dupe stuff are.
I give them credit, they wanna do this right, but it is kind of frustrating to run into a friend saying good things about the game whle on another Cryptic/PWI game... and what's worst is I lost track of this friend from SL and Yahoo so I liked being able to speak to her again metaphorically but boom, I can't because she doesn't actually HAVE STO. Still, if they're going to take the time to get it right then I guess I'll deal, and happily.
This is true. Its the paying customers who do not want a wipe or rollback. If you play this game for free your opinion really does not count as you don't pay them anything. So vote for a wipe all you want, maybe if you start paying your opinion may matter.
spent $40 on zen cause i was bored and wanted to buy a buncha key ... wipe it
+1vote from paying customer
and zen buyers are going to continue to buy zen only the cheaters will leave game cause they lost their Iwin ability.
i didnt exploit foundry or 1shot i also didnt exploit the ah when my guildies told me about it 4-5 days ago
i just want a fighting chance /shrug pvp sucks when 30% have cheated gear ... and you're a **** liar if ur getting your toon to max + all capped gear + gear for all your alts in 3 days. if you are then u are a cheater or ran with them ( replying to previous post on last part)
All those voting for a wipe are not exploiters and cheaters. However, only Cryptic knows their systems, and how it will affect the playerbase. They will pick the solution that affects the fewest honest folk. Sadly many of these cheaters don't play this game for fun, they play for profit. This is who they are going to affect, and no matter how you here them exclaim in this thread and others how they wont be affected, they absolutely will.
This game isnt about the exploiters and cheaters, its about the honest folk. Have you noticed why 90%+ of the posters whining on the forums are not in guilds? Because the great majority of those who actively play together happily, will be playing together happily after this fix, thanks to the NWO employees who are spending their entire Sunday, day and night, getting this game up, the right way.
Cryptic needs to make the honest folks, whether they are in a guild or not, feel like they are pro-actively making this a better place. They are proving their weight in gold, tonight.
psol1asMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
i think they will find a way to fix this and also be fair to every one....to the ones that did that for sure i hope ban ip...but i dont think wipe is the solution...so many hours spent for so many people and so many zen from others...i am a free player and i wouldnt like to have it wiped...imagine paying and everything you paid for goes of the cliff....wipe is not the solution...hope they fix it fast and nice......ty for working on it guys
My only question is.. why would you keep the servers up for so long after identifying the problem, you shut the AH down fairly early.. but left the servers up for the money to be toss around with the general population. Which I'm sure didn't make matters easier. There was so much spam in trade about cats and mounts and god knows what...
Does anyone else think that $40 for a mount is utterly ridiculous? Oh and the GWF is a complete GIMP especially in PVP.
Otherwise, this is a fun MMO. It has it's issues, and this AD logic exploit is one of them. Hopefully they get this all sorted, make the cash shop actually reasonable and balance out the classes.
Most of my MMO veteran buddies have already decided to chill a while on the game and see if they shape it into what it could be.
I'm willing to listen to whatever plan they put forward for correcting this exploit/issue, but I fear even the most comprehensive plan won't catch even a majority of the AD/Zen/item transfers; only a full wipe will restore the economy. What makes this entire issue worse is that it was a known issue http://i.imgur.com/oA6Z8.jpg that had already shown up in Star Trek Online. So clearly this exploit has been in practice since day one, meaning that even a 72 hour rollback wouldn't catch even a fraction of the duped AD.
Anything less taking this issue seriously and restoring the economy, will see me seeking a refund and moving on. I'm not prepared to invest time and money while it takes the game months to years to recover. Pulling the trigger now would restore faith in the company, while anything less leaves the economy suspect and the game a joke in the mmorpg community. I hope they do the right thing.
You worry too much about the economy. The currency of the economy will correct itself over time, sure it will mean inflation, but soon the currency will spread around and it won't really matter. That is assuming that a good portion of the artificial currency is removed. Of course there is also the issue of an abundance of high end gear from the instakill bosses exploit, but that isn't game breaking. That gear ain't hard to get legit and will be severely devalued anyway once Guantylgrym, sorry for the spelling, gets released which should be very soon.
Overall I'd say this extreme exploit, as bad as it is, won't do a whole lot to harm the game, but we will see.
Update 6:35 PM Pacific: We have a plan of action. We're verifying the exact timeline with the Neverwinter team, then we'll be triple-checking the planned forum post with all key stakeholders before posting. We're not finished yet, folks, but we're getting closer.
[/color][/b]
These folks are having a very long working weekend. As a developer who is on a pager rotation, I would hate to be in their shoes. lol Keep up the good work everyone and hopefully you get a comp day or two out of this. :cool:
I was away for a week, but got to 60 and like 10 mil AD and 3000 zen stuff and epics all legit - and a cat too.
Right now I'm worried cuz I can't login to check my account.
But I hope no one hacked my account and did stuff when I was gone.
If so, I hope they realize that most of the stuff I got legit - and I get to keep it after the 72 hour ban.
Otherwise it's not very fair.
i dont care if it takes 5 months as long as the money i spent isnt turned to ash over some cheaters who thought they were brilliant when they decided "oh, like printing money! more is more right???" no... you've royally f'd up the whole thing.
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heman9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
D&D GUY: Could you pls make my server Green? DEV:Winter Is coming! (no roll Backs- just randomly killing main Chars)!
I could not agree more with what you have said. I think the original poster should receive a 72 hour forum ban and that post should be taken down.
You agree with Rhiandriel defending her son by misspelling "HAMSTER" three times in a row? Congrats for not spotting a troll.
Original post has been edited, so now you can both go back to enjoying the engrossing, intelligent and ordered conversation that you've been trawling through 150+ pages of.
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shadathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Except yes, there are logs of everything, and yes, they can do selective rollbacks, which is what they said a good long while ago they were working on doing.
A full wipe is not necessary and I'm actually surprised to see it being called for on such a large scale. The thing is, a full wipe is not actually necessary. Let them do their jobs.
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sydeswypeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Comments
It really isn't that complicated.
Leaving billions of AD/Zen sitting on Gold Farmer accounts would devalue the hell out of game currency.
Which would make it pretty **** hard for PWE to maintain Zen sales...
Free to Play only works if part of the player base is paying.
Seriously, PWE is a company, it does not exist for charity.
It needs to make a profit or it will fail.
So don't worry so much those of you screaming about mules;
a company is not going to leave massive outside controlled funds
on their own game servers where they are also trying to sell currency.
As a future Game Developer (I'm studying Game Production currently and will be graduating in November, plus I'm going to E3 next month), I am actually saddened at some of the replies here from people who don't know a **** thing about what it takes to run a MMO or to make sure nothing screws up with the fixes. Granted I don't either, but at least I have an idea and am studying the profession.
That being said, let the Devs work their magic, enjoy the game when the servers come back up, and as always: Good play!
Here's how I'm imagining this would work:
1) Wipe all AD from all accounts. (Founders starting AD would be reset).
2) Wipe all Zen from all accounts.
3) Refund back to PWE accounts all Zen bought with real money and transferred in Neverwinter. (eg, if you'd bought and transferred 15000 Zen into Neverwinter, you'd get 15000 Zen credited back to your PWE account. If you'd bought another 100000 Zen in game from the AD exchange, that is gone.)
4) Delete from all characters all items that are only purchasable with AD or Zen, including items that only drop from lockboxes like the Phoera.
5) Here's the hard part: The items sold on AH. I think they need to rollback all AH sales from the last 72 hours. Trouble is, I have no idea if they can actually do this short of a server-wide rollback. If they do do this rollback, Then I believe it would be wise for them to offer some form of compensation to reduce ragequits. I'd personally prefer this to not be anything that would impact the economy or game balance.
If they do all this, then it seems to me that the damage to the ongoing economy would be mostly undone, without the need to wipe characters.
Then again, I have no knowledge of whether all of this is actually possible with the way the game is designed.
gonna go troll some wow boards till this is fixed..
"Gathering data" is pointless? Gathering data is important to any developer especially when it comes to an exploit and gathering information. Would you want some one to have an unfair advantage in a game that your particularly enjoy? Not just Neverwinter?
Well the point is that this is a open BETA, things are going to change as they do in a closed BETA, if a person doesn't like that then they didn't need to sign up for the open BETA knowing what you were getting into in the first place. Things are going to change for better for worse. They are collecting data for ingrates like you to make this game better so you can keep complaining about the changes that Cryptic makes. It's all a wait and see now. If you still don't like it after the changes are made, no one if forcing you to continue playing or to maintain an account.
To every one else that this message has possibly offended. I apologize. It's just that people that are similar to teldara don't realize no matter what the title of a beta is, be it closed or open it is still a beta. Things change, things get corrected, investigated or out right rewritten. All you can hope for is a playable product that keeps you entertained.
HaHa that has to be the funniest thing i have read yet on the forum today ... "wasting time"!!?? unless?? your making REAL money?
naa i'm sure that is not the case. but was funny either way.
It is not a test (beta) anymore; otherwise, they could just wipe it all and move along. The reason it is not beta and the biggest problem PW is still trying to figure out is what to do about what their PAYING CUSTOMERS have purchased. They can't screw them over or they will leave and there will be no reason to keep the game going.
Wipe, not likely because it would be too tramatic; however, a 24-48 hour rollback is the most likely outcome. As long as they can preserve the cash transactions that have occured. That is what everyone needs to remember, it is all about the paying customers as much as the naive masses would like to think it's about the broader (i.e, non-paying) playerbase.
I believe that constitutes fraud.
gonna go troll some wow boards till this is fixed..
But if they do, please refund all zen to paying customers.
The company won't lose any $.
Zen can only spent in game & not at strip clubs or on prostitutes.
Ppl like me got alot play time here and we farmd all day to have our sets... they schould just ban all those dupers,exploit users and try to find out where all the dupe stuff are.
spent $40 on zen cause i was bored and wanted to buy a buncha key ... wipe it
+1vote from paying customer
and zen buyers are going to continue to buy zen only the cheaters will leave game cause they lost their Iwin ability.
i didnt exploit foundry or 1shot i also didnt exploit the ah when my guildies told me about it 4-5 days ago
i just want a fighting chance /shrug pvp sucks when 30% have cheated gear ... and you're a **** liar if ur getting your toon to max + all capped gear + gear for all your alts in 3 days. if you are then u are a cheater or ran with them ( replying to previous post on last part)
This game isnt about the exploiters and cheaters, its about the honest folk. Have you noticed why 90%+ of the posters whining on the forums are not in guilds? Because the great majority of those who actively play together happily, will be playing together happily after this fix, thanks to the NWO employees who are spending their entire Sunday, day and night, getting this game up, the right way.
Cryptic needs to make the honest folks, whether they are in a guild or not, feel like they are pro-actively making this a better place. They are proving their weight in gold, tonight.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Since we're voting on making other people do stuff.
Otherwise, this is a fun MMO. It has it's issues, and this AD logic exploit is one of them. Hopefully they get this all sorted, make the cash shop actually reasonable and balance out the classes.
Most of my MMO veteran buddies have already decided to chill a while on the game and see if they shape it into what it could be.
You worry too much about the economy. The currency of the economy will correct itself over time, sure it will mean inflation, but soon the currency will spread around and it won't really matter. That is assuming that a good portion of the artificial currency is removed. Of course there is also the issue of an abundance of high end gear from the instakill bosses exploit, but that isn't game breaking. That gear ain't hard to get legit and will be severely devalued anyway once Guantylgrym, sorry for the spelling, gets released which should be very soon.
Overall I'd say this extreme exploit, as bad as it is, won't do a whole lot to harm the game, but we will see.
These folks are having a very long working weekend. As a developer who is on a pager rotation, I would hate to be in their shoes. lol Keep up the good work everyone and hopefully you get a comp day or two out of this. :cool:
Right now I'm worried cuz I can't login to check my account.
But I hope no one hacked my account and did stuff when I was gone.
If so, I hope they realize that most of the stuff I got legit - and I get to keep it after the 72 hour ban.
Otherwise it's not very fair.
You agree with Rhiandriel defending her son by misspelling "HAMSTER" three times in a row? Congrats for not spotting a troll.
Original post has been edited, so now you can both go back to enjoying the engrossing, intelligent and ordered conversation that you've been trawling through 150+ pages of.
A full wipe is not necessary and I'm actually surprised to see it being called for on such a large scale. The thing is, a full wipe is not actually necessary. Let them do their jobs.