what i wouldn't give for yahtzee over at zero punctuation to write a review for this game right now. it would be so funny beer would shoot out my nose! xD
I personally think anyone who has already spent REAL MONEY on a BETA is ****ing crazy. If you are stupid enough to have already spent real money on a game in BETA and you lose it...then tough titty. Anyone who has played an MMO in BETA knows that anything is possible...a wipe, a rollback; whatever to make the game RIGHT. I can't tell you how many BETAS I've played and before the game was released they did a complete wipe and I lost whatever progress on whatever character I had created. IT'S TO BE EXPECTED....
I've just got to say that if PWE made no money during this open beta period, there wouldn't be a final release. Just saying.
Like I and others said in alpha countless times: this game was not ready for beta, close or open. We begged and pleaded to keep the testing going but it seems Cryptic was so money-hungry they released this game with it's soft launch because of it's name recognition. With us really barely testing it for only 5 hours 2 days a week before eventually adding in a 6 hour Saturday, we never fully got the time to test every aspect of the game, especially with them giving us a focus on one zone and then moving on to the next zone one week later. You could tell they were rushing and the quality-control was severely lacking because of it. That said, I am opposed to any kind of wipe. I worked for what I have, even though I am not yet halfway to 60. The time I have spent playing was precious as I only play when my girlfriend is able to make time. All our work together would be undone. Cryptic is just as much at fault as these cheaters are. Don't put out a product when your testers are telling you that it's not ready.
Don't get me started on the Foundry. That's a whole other mess that many authors won't be able to finish because Cryptic won't treat it the same as the main game by limiting the features that can be produced.
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moldiver42Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I will most likely quit if they do a full wipe. I only really progressed in things because they said their would not be one. I've spent tons of time and $ in the last few days and items that were on a limited time frame. Just logging in to craft, come back later to do again, repeat. It's fun and enjoyable , but if they wipe, it's just not worth redoing. I'll just uninstall. I've gotten the starter pack, I've bought zen. I have contributed to a well built game. But to start over not on my own accord, is enough to flat out stop playing
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aberation42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Regarding the question of "open beta" going to game release. It is a fairly common strategy (economic) for "free" to play games to stay in open beta essentially for the lifetime of the game. That being the case I suspect for this game, I can only conclude to not completely alter the economy the illegal AD and related Zen would need to be removed from the game. The problem isn't tracking down the "original offenders" that is an easy task. The real problem is tracking the AD to "innocent" accounts that may have received the proceeds from these secondary transactions i.e gifts.
His issue, dude, is that he's a foundry publisher and he doesn't want to see all his hard work wiped out. It's a significant issue for these guys. It's great content and the future of the game in a lot of ways. So, show him a little empathy.
Will they really be taking away our foundries if they do a wipe? Why can't they just wipe characters? I worked hard all weekend on my foundry! PWE will hear it in both ears if they wipe my foundry!!!!! **** it, this pisses me off thinking they may wipe my foundry. Take my skills, spells, AD, gold, lvls, experience, but for the love of all that his holy, don't take my foundry.
NW-DULDNU5HG - A New Evil. ~15min Healthy balance of story and action.
This forum thread has to be the biggest "open mouth before engaging brain" commentary that I've ever read on a gaming forum. I personally have to say a huge Kudos to PW for taking down the servers in the first place, they loose money doing so. There's a lot of people calling for a wipe/rollback without the real knowledge of what that means;
1) If they do a full server-wipe they just ripped off everyone who has purchased zen for this game. Their paying customers. Why the hell would they do this to satisfy the hundreds/thousands who don't intend to spend a dime on this game?
2) If they do a rollback, they're going to be doing the same to their paying customers, but to a lesser extent. Again, not an option if they want to keep their paying customers paying.
The best way for them to solve this dilemma is to search the server logs for all accounts who have used and abused this exploit, cross-reference their IP addresses to find any extra accounts they might have, and ban the whole lot of them. Those who purchased items from these people (which isn't me) shouldn't be punished, because they had no way of knowing their purchase wasn't legit, unless it can be easily shown they were constantly dealing in exploited items. Once the players are dealt with, PW should fix the exploit and do the best they can to repair other economy damage.
Is it a perfect solution? No, but it's the only solution that will cause the least damage to the player base. The economy will still be broken for a while (then again, tell me 1 game who's economy isn't) but it should eventually sort itself out.
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sickenme56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
Got up this morning. Hopped on Neverwinter for most of the day once I got my morning stuff squared away around 10:30-ish. Hopped off to make dinner. Came back and tried to log back in:
Now I can't get ahold of customer support to try and get this thing straightened out. I don't know who used my account to do this, but I'm thinking it was someone on the forums since the "New Computer" e-mail came shortly after I made several posts about the exploit (not detailing it) getting people into trouble and customer support helping people out who had been screwed up by the people using this exploit.
I would really appreciate some help getting into contact with customer support, if it's viable, Community Team.
His issue, dude, is that he's a foundry publisher and he doesn't want to see all his hard work wiped out. It's a significant issue for these guys. It's great content and the future of the game in a lot of ways. So, show him a little empathy.
Working on Foundry Quests myself, tyvm and I do have sympathy. Read all this guys posts. Always abrasive, always over the top and to tell someone to "go die" (and worse don't remember the whole rant), as he did in his post is immature and uncalled for.
There is no reason for a wipe, if it is necessary, to affect Foundry at all. He just likes to threaten with every post he makes. If he is going to leave for a necessary reset, then don't let the door hit him in the you know what on the way out.
A destroyed economy will affect the game much more as people will leave in exodus when they cannot afford the simplest of crafting materials or other items.
Like I and others said in alpha countless times: this game was not ready for beta, close or open. We begged and pleaded to keep the testing going but it seems Cryptic was so money-hungry they released this game with it's soft launch because of it's name recognition. With us really barely testing it for only 5 hours 2 days a week before eventually adding in a 6 hour Saturday, we never fully got the time to test every aspect of the game, especially with them giving us a focus on one zone and then moving on to the next zone one week later. You could tell they were rushing and the quality-control was severely lacking because of it. That said, I am opposed to any kind of wipe. I worked for what I have, even though I am not yet halfway to 60. The time I have spent playing was precious as I only play when my girlfriend is able to make time. All our work together would be undone. Cryptic is just as much at fault as these cheaters are. Don't put out a product when your testers are telling you that it's not ready.
Don't get me started on the Foundry. That's a whole other mess that many authors won't be able to finish because Cryptic won't treat it the same as the main game by limiting the features that can be produced.
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aberation42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I want one
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nicbec63Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I read that and thought "so the only thing going to happen to people who used this exploit that destroyed the game world economy is a rollback". Not near enough of a punishment considering the damage done to the game.
im sure those accounts will be watched heavily for future exploits/bug abuses... if they aren't banning them that is ;o
His issue, dude, is that he's a foundry publisher and he doesn't want to see all his hard work wiped out. It's a significant issue for these guys. It's great content and the future of the game in a lot of ways. So, show him a little empathy.
sort of off topic (if that can be said in this thread) but who "owns" the player made content? Does PWE own it, or does the player have some rights to it? Just curious as I have never really seen anything like the Foundry in other mmo's.
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krehlmarMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
ROLLBACK for the love of all that is good...
AD can be used to buy/progress:
PROFESSION/CRAFTING
GEAR
PETS
PETS LEVELS
GOLD
The economy is ****ed on all fronts and if you CAN rollback every single account affected by the AD then go ahead, it'll spare me some hours of crafting.
BUT; I would not accept letting half the scammers get away with lvl 20 crafting spewing out "Hero"'s and blacksmiths all over the place.
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fluxus111Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
all they need to do is release the next tier of content and make the gear that drops BoP (at least the majority of it)
then all the current gear will fall in price and the economy will normalize
^THIS^
Along with a simple search of accounts that have increased their AD/Zen by over 500% in the past week. I'm sure it's not difficult to separate the cheaters from the clueless (like me) that just want to play the game and could care less about the AH.
While they're busy making gear BOP, how about fixing the Need rolls to prevent people that can't use an item from rolling Need?
Rollback to a specific date, dont wipe the game. Querys and seartch of database can resolv alot, but will take time. If you wipe, reimburse the money spent.
That's the kind of business I'll think of in a future. Instead of hiring testers and paying them for their job, I will make them to pay me for privilege of testing my product
People, this is BETA, it's not a full product. The exploiters are not bad guys, they're helping to make quality final product (yes, shut server still pisses me off the same way as waiting for a patch for cyclic FPS stall). As hackers are making systems more and more secure and there are more and more paid security officers. And so on...
This forum thread has to be the biggest "open mouth before engaging brain" commentary that I've ever read on a gaming forum. I personally have to say a huge Kudos to PW for taking down the servers in the first place, they loose money doing so. There's a lot of people calling for a wipe/rollback without the real knowledge of what that means;
1) If they do a full server-wipe they just ripped off everyone who has purchased zen for this game. Their paying customers. Why the hell would they do this to satisfy the hundreds/thousands who don't intend to spend a dime on this game?
2) If they do a rollback, they're going to be doing the same to their paying customers, but to a lesser extent. Again, not an option if they want to keep their paying customers paying.
The best way for them to solve this dilemma is to search the server logs for all accounts who have used and abused this exploit, cross-reference their IP addresses to find any extra accounts they might have, and ban the whole lot of them. Those who purchased items from these people (which isn't me) shouldn't be punished, because they had no way of knowing their purchase wasn't legit, unless it can be easily shown they were constantly dealing in exploited items. Once the players are dealt with, PW should fix the exploit and do the best they can to repair other economy damage.
Is it a perfect solution? No, but it's the only solution that will cause the least damage to the player base. The economy will still be broken for a while (then again, tell me 1 game who's economy isn't) but it should eventually sort itself out.
I would agree with you, but this situation is a little different. This amount is SEVERELY DETRIMENTAL to the economy if they didn't get it all. The only way to do that is a full wipe..which to me is completely lame cause i have 2 60's and I've spent $160 on the game so far, but it seems to be the only way. To do any better fix would require SOOO much downtime.
Once again though...that's just my 2AD.
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inyourmomsboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
C'mon Peeps! Need another 200 pages to close this thread!
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here we go....
1) I very, very rarely comment on forums anymore. I've played most every major MMO since Ultima Online, and there's a reason that I now mostly solo until I can't any longer, and then move on. I honestly can't stand dealing with other people. That's what real life is for, and I play games to unwind from that. Not targeted at you, but just a little personal background.
Flame away.
I could have written point 1 myself, I mean the whole thing from Ultima Online to the can't stand other people right to the flame away. Great post
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reclusiarcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would agree with you, but this situation is a little different. This amount is SEVERELY DETRIMENTAL to the economy if they didn't get it all. The only way to do that is a full wipe..which to me is completely lame cause i have 2 60's and I've spent $160 on the game so far, but it seems to be the only way. To do any better fix would require SOOO much downtime.
Once again though...that's just my 2AD.
Same 60's, spent the same cash. And I feel the same way as you.
Comments
I've just got to say that if PWE made no money during this open beta period, there wouldn't be a final release. Just saying.
Don't get me started on the Foundry. That's a whole other mess that many authors won't be able to finish because Cryptic won't treat it the same as the main game by limiting the features that can be produced.
LMFAO! Hilarious. +1
Will they really be taking away our foundries if they do a wipe? Why can't they just wipe characters? I worked hard all weekend on my foundry! PWE will hear it in both ears if they wipe my foundry!!!!! **** it, this pisses me off thinking they may wipe my foundry. Take my skills, spells, AD, gold, lvls, experience, but for the love of all that his holy, don't take my foundry.
@Daranar
Adriana - 41 Control Wizard - 10 Tailor - 4 Leader - Mindflayer
Daranar - 6 Guadian Fighter - Mindflayer
1) If they do a full server-wipe they just ripped off everyone who has purchased zen for this game. Their paying customers. Why the hell would they do this to satisfy the hundreds/thousands who don't intend to spend a dime on this game?
2) If they do a rollback, they're going to be doing the same to their paying customers, but to a lesser extent. Again, not an option if they want to keep their paying customers paying.
The best way for them to solve this dilemma is to search the server logs for all accounts who have used and abused this exploit, cross-reference their IP addresses to find any extra accounts they might have, and ban the whole lot of them. Those who purchased items from these people (which isn't me) shouldn't be punished, because they had no way of knowing their purchase wasn't legit, unless it can be easily shown they were constantly dealing in exploited items. Once the players are dealt with, PW should fix the exploit and do the best they can to repair other economy damage.
Is it a perfect solution? No, but it's the only solution that will cause the least damage to the player base. The economy will still be broken for a while (then again, tell me 1 game who's economy isn't) but it should eventually sort itself out.
I'm dying laughing...goodbye:)
Working on Foundry Quests myself, tyvm and I do have sympathy. Read all this guys posts. Always abrasive, always over the top and to tell someone to "go die" (and worse don't remember the whole rant), as he did in his post is immature and uncalled for.
There is no reason for a wipe, if it is necessary, to affect Foundry at all. He just likes to threaten with every post he makes. If he is going to leave for a necessary reset, then don't let the door hit him in the you know what on the way out.
A destroyed economy will affect the game much more as people will leave in exodus when they cannot afford the simplest of crafting materials or other items.
Don't get me started on the Foundry. That's a whole other mess that many authors won't be able to finish because Cryptic won't treat it the same as the main game by limiting the features that can be produced.
It's raining...
im sure those accounts will be watched heavily for future exploits/bug abuses... if they aren't banning them that is ;o
sort of off topic (if that can be said in this thread) but who "owns" the player made content? Does PWE own it, or does the player have some rights to it? Just curious as I have never really seen anything like the Foundry in other mmo's.
AD can be used to buy/progress:
PROFESSION/CRAFTING
GEAR
PETS
PETS LEVELS
GOLD
The economy is ****ed on all fronts and if you CAN rollback every single account affected by the AD then go ahead, it'll spare me some hours of crafting.
BUT; I would not accept letting half the scammers get away with lvl 20 crafting spewing out "Hero"'s and blacksmiths all over the place.
^THIS^
Along with a simple search of accounts that have increased their AD/Zen by over 500% in the past week. I'm sure it's not difficult to separate the cheaters from the clueless (like me) that just want to play the game and could care less about the AH.
While they're busy making gear BOP, how about fixing the Need rolls to prevent people that can't use an item from rolling Need?
Second rollback the chars that use exploits or ban them completely
Third if the ad problem is fixed give everyone there own Auction house item back if they put something on it so the auction house is empty.
So no rollback for anyone that didn't deserve it and they still have their ad and items they where selling they only need to put it on ah again.
People, this is BETA, it's not a full product. The exploiters are not bad guys, they're helping to make quality final product (yes, shut server still pisses me off the same way as waiting for a patch for cyclic FPS stall). As hackers are making systems more and more secure and there are more and more paid security officers. And so on...
Update: we're hoping to have more info for you soon, and are still working on the issue. Thanks so much for your patience!
This is so fecking worse than a teasing college sllutt!
I would agree with you, but this situation is a little different. This amount is SEVERELY DETRIMENTAL to the economy if they didn't get it all. The only way to do that is a full wipe..which to me is completely lame cause i have 2 60's and I've spent $160 on the game so far, but it seems to be the only way. To do any better fix would require SOOO much downtime.
Once again though...that's just my 2AD.
I could have written point 1 myself, I mean the whole thing from Ultima Online to the can't stand other people right to the flame away. Great post
Same 60's, spent the same cash. And I feel the same way as you.