tealcobaltMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
I think it's funny that people complain so hard about this going on in the game and being left in the dark.
When in the real world your always in the dark do you realize that your being scammed every day? Do you realize you do not get a receipt for what Government spends taxes on? Do you realize as an American citizen you are not allowed to know where the money goes all you know is 50% goes straight into military projects we have no right to know about... Trillions of dollars go missing and our own government can't explain it and won't explain it because your not allowed to know even though it's your right to know. The CIA is allowed by law to take as much money as they want from any division of the government with no disclosure and answer to no one.
All this real insane stuff going on in the world and your crying more over a game and its broken economy that you have absolutely no control over.
So people exploited and now your calling AD and Zen worthless because there is so much around... seriously complaining about game economy what a joke. Have you seen the amount of money there is in the real world? Trillions and trillions Gas/oil alone is a 600 trillion dollar industry looks to me like Gas/oil have been exploiting people for years don't forget the banks they hold everyone's money so they have even more but guess whats even better the five top banks are owned by the five top Gas/oil companies so who owns your Government when the Government became corrupt and sold the banks and now have no control over the money. They own 51% of the worlds income/money and you tell me they don't run the world? You realize there is only 6-7 billion people on the planet. Why does poverty exist? Where is middle class going? Why are all the problems still around and getting progressively worse when there's more than enough money and to fix all of them.
I can make a company now days to and make a game and call it open beta and sell items for real money and then I could even close it down before it ever became retail and have pocketed some of that money and all the people that spent money on the game that wasn't "technically" out and well to bad for you the game wasn't out and you knew the entire time they can cancel it and you would probably get no money back. When you scam people the right way it's not against the law **** look at the Government and see what they created and **** they still got taken over and became corrupt by money and power. More people get away doing corrupt things than good look at the alcohol and tobacco companies they get away with murder lol... Everyone seems to be okay with that fact but the companies they only see it as money. Seriously calling a game open beta or any type of beta at all and charging money selling items is just another scam that is legal to get away with. Sorry but once you start charging money your game is retail in less it's donations.
Oh and don't forget how many people are addicted to pharmaceutical drugs in which I don't understand why you would ever even think about taking something that has over 20 side effects and one of them is "may cause death" if this occurs call your doctor right away... Really think the people making them drugs don't know what every single ingredient effect has on the body? Really don't think there's natural cures for everything? Maybe you need to take a good look at the perfect example of a planet we live on to show you what is possible. For example notice the planet has free wireless energy that it generates itself go learn about the ionosphere. Why make a cure for cancer you would put thousands of people out of jobs... probably why it's patent was never released just like the 5200+ free energy patents that are missing. For example if it's superior to Gas/oil in every single way why let the public know about it when you can stamp classified on it and continue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the people and the planet for money, power and control?
You tried to win the lotto? **** if everyone in the world gave everyone 1$ that's 6 billion times easier than winning the lotto and plus your going to have 6+ billion dollars. The lotto just scams your *** and pockets the money.
My question to you is what is currency worth seriously? Can you not figure it out it causes the same **** thing in the real world as it does in games.
Seriously stop crying about this problem it's not even that big of a deal because after all it's only "Open Beta" right?
Perfect World, you have an awesome game. I have spent hours playing, leveling up my characters and my professions. To me it has all been a labor of love. I'm willing to give my time and attention to your dynamic creations. To that end, if a reset, or reroll is what is needed to cure the exploits of those who are attempting to destroy the game in progress: DO IT. I do not mind starting over. I do not cheat, there is no need when you are doing a thing you love. The zen I have managed to gather, I have done so by doing surveys, I really do not mind doing it again if that's what it takes to stop cheating pieces of trash. Those who claim they'll 'go play another game' are free to do so. They really haven't invested anything of value to the game anyway. I am a dedicated fan, and I am sure there are a LOT of others like me out there. So I'll say it again, if you need to wipe the servers and make us start over, so be it! Its all for the better, afterall a master work is not created over night. To those who will whine and cry about lost 'work'... whaaa go elsewhere you are not needed or desired.
EXACTLY. Besides, leveling is incredibly fast in this game. While pay to play games make everything a lengthy grind to keep your monthly sub., in Neverwinter you gain a level every 4-5 quest turn ins. Sure, I'm only lvl 51 but I've played most MMO's since Everquest I and would be no where as close to max level in those games as I am in this one with my current play style.
I'm admittedly only L40, but I'm fine with a rollback or a complete wipe, so long as my Zen purchases get refunded. However, if this is more about protecting the income interests of Perfect World, and less about improving the game for the players, then I'll be moving on. That's been the case in the last couple of patches, where exploits that could hurt their bottom line were fixed before problems that we've been screaming about.
I don't even know what exploit they are talking about, I have been so busy pve leveling, I am a 54 cleric now, actually gained 4 levels yesterday cause the little woman was gone all day, I had a leveling marathon, it would be so lame to lose levels based on this
I have to give PW some latitude here and hope they figure a way to penalize the exploiters and replace whatever damage was done without losing my character
I may actually shed a tear, believe me when I say, if you do dungeon dailies and you are a cleric, it aint an easy way to level, just saying, I would hate to repeat the work again leveling a cleric, I like her just the way she is now
I admit I made some mistakes over time that had I known about in-game would have made playing my character easier, but that's why I have other character slots
GL PW
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ricshawMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
You only have to worry about rollbacks if you were using the exploit. Tomeanted.
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brambobeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I suggest they wipe all the free accounts and ban all the paying accounts that were involved in this.
This way legit paying customers wont get ****ed over and most of the damage is likely repaired.
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djvinenhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I think we need to think more about the well fare of the game, then of ourselves. The only way I can see these issues be resolved is a full server wipe. Yes it sucks, but what is done is done and a rollback of a few days isn't going to mitigate all the damage to our economy and make everyone happy.
Personally I think they should wipe the servers, and simply re-credit the zen and/or founder's packs that people have bought. How else can you actually fix the game and make it competitive again? I'm not convinced any other solution is more than a band-aid on a gaping wound.
Wouldn't it be better for them just to do what damage control they can on these servers and create new servers for people that don't want to play on those servers anymore?
They need to just wipe gear, AD and ZEN. They can do this or give people enough xp to get back to were they are right now. This can be done and people can get gear. But I do think that they need to refund all Zen and AD that people got legally if they wipe it.
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princecharmingsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
There needs to be a rollback or the economy is F'ed forever.
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shannairaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Etup was yacking about not sanitizing inputs. I come from a Database Architecture/Administration perspective.
Whoever is the Database Architect/Administrator who came up with a database model and didn't slap a constraint on the bids such that this couldn't happen, needs to be fired. immediately.
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rude81Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Well ... they do not even need to do a full wipe. Just ban the evildoers and their associates, reset the money and kill the items and gear. And they shouldn't forget to compensate the customers for the invested money.
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brotherlytechMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wouldn't it be better for them just to do what damage control they can on these servers? Then create new servers for people that don't want to play on those servers anymore.
This is impossible, as they plan on merging all the server eventually.
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oldbuggaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Actually, every transaction is logged in a database. Who it's from, and who it's to and when the transaction was made. They can run a script that finds every -AD transaction and then run another script on those accounts that recursively rolls back every step until every last AD is accounted for. If people sold an item on the AH to somebody who used the exploit, the person will get their item back. If they spent the AD on something, that item will get taken away.
Not a crisis and not game breaking, the sky isn't falling.
I agree. Ahh yes youthful impatience. They will get it sorted as equitably as they can without ruining the game for everyone.
By sheer coincidence (and I mean coincidence) I looked up on thew wiki yesterday how to transfer AD from one character to another one of mine (I got the founder pack and wanted to trfr a small amount of AD to be able to train the companion on the second char). Apparently the only way is via the AH (as per the wiki). So I posted a scrub item with a 10K buyout and after several logouts and logins to actually find the thing it all worked (minus the 10% AH cut). But the logouts and logins were because I couldn't find the item I posted amid the thousands of wierd postings. The AH seemed to be flooded with stuff. I hope my little sojourn into twinking and alt (legitimately as per the wiki) doesn't trigger their little flag.
They will get it sorted and we should be patient enough to let them get it right.
I paid $200 for the HoN Founder's Pack and have spent $150 on Zen. I anticipate spending quite a bit more.
I have spent every spare hour playing this game.
I am in favor of a wipe.
Honestly, enough about a total wipe.
If any of you seriously think that they would completely wipe this game and set it back to square one...you are out of your **** minds. Why is this still a topic? There will not be a wipe.
I repeat, there will not be a wipe...think about what it entails. Its not happening so stop dreaming.
Something that directly effects their sales = instant action. They are "still investigating"? Bull**** the information is right infront of them. They are still trying to find a proper fix instead of a bandaid is all.
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clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I also see a lot of "founders" claiming this and that without even being founders (founders can easily be identified by the "Hero of the North" or "Guardian" forum titles under their names--like you can see on mine).
I'm a Guardian Pack Founder and I don't have the forum title so maybe you should actually get your fact straight before you go spouting off nonsense in a public forum which makes yourself look like a complete idiot in the process and subsequently devalues the rest of your points which may or may not have been legitimate.
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jimbosaurusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
It's surprising a lot of people are complaining, as with the exploits, items that would be very hard to get or very expensive have produced a higher supply than normal resulting in reduced cost of said items. Now everyone can enjoy the the higher tier items and not just the super rich. I didn't realize that the city of Neverwinter was such an "us vs them" society in which only the powerful and rich can attain magical items. While the lower class are doomed to feed off the outskirts and can only attain the "uncommon" items. It's a shame that the people of Neverwinter have struggled for so long that when a few manage to strive for equality and rise above the social disorder to share the wealth of items and cats to all those less unfortunate souls they are removed and forgotten.
beta is a finished state of development where no content is added just refined - in essence all mmo's are beta
this mistake is imputed to the developer - exploits are a natural part of economy - since this is their interest and more, in their control to have address it
thaw this is i-relevant
as fore a solution economy roll back -just do a balance and credit the accounts
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silvr04Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
I like playing the game.
I like creating characters
I purchased both Packs
I purchased quite a bit of ZEN
I am not asking for my money back
As long as I get the AD and ZEN I spent money on, reset the game.
I may be a bit upset at the 'wasted' time spent but to reset and fir the economy (and any bugs/exploits) I am for it.
Oh. ANd put that butoon back on top of the game screen and set it up to report bugs and exploits. Hopefulls hones players with report a bug or exploit as soon as he finds it (and help prevent this from happeneing in the future)
Just my 2AD (Before inflation)
Agree. I did not spend a lot of money but i did spend some. If there has to be a complete wipe and reset as long as i get my zen credits back then i have no issues.
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skrikarnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A server rollback would also take care of the abuse people did with oneshotting bosses in dungeons.
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sectiriousMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
If they do a Rollback or a wipe, I'd hope they'd give us something for our lost time. Something like a Respec coin or a T2 mount/companion. something along those lines. If they punish the entire community and make no means to soften the blow, that's would feel like they don't care about us at all and just want our money.
My input: I would be satisfied with a complete server wipe - in fact I'd support it very much as long as we get our 5 exclusive days and have the free players wait for our head-start again. That would be fair and logical, and it'd give us a chance to refresh our characters and do things differently that we wish we had done during the first few days of play
In my opinion is this a game killing way to solve it, I understand that you want were you payed for. But I can tell you this: I have invited 3 friends to start playing this game (and two of them are WoW players who are used to spend a uge amounts of money to good MMORPGs). And they are all complaining about downtime because of updates (we are just unlucky that it's mostly on the time that we are free from school and done with homework and wanted to relax ;-) ). This are also potential players who will give money to the game and if you think that they say: "Oww, servers down for 5 days, never mind, I will start again in 5 days, no problem!" than you are wrong.
As much as I hate it without 100% full wipe I'm going to dispute on my transactions with PayPal. 3 weeks of lost gameplay is nothing I was planning to stick with the game for years to come hence my support but this is turning into a fraud.
Fools, you did even read the paypal EULA, you have no protection on digital goods.. here is a quote.
11.5 Items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection. The following are examples of items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection.
•Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
•Items that you deliver in person, including in connection with In-Store Checkout.
•Intangible items, including Digital Goods, and services.
•PayPal Direct Payments.
• Virtual Terminal Payments.
•PayPal Business Payments.
•Items that are not shipped to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery.
They're not going to commit to anything until they understand what they have and what steps need to be taken. I'm not sure it could be that much more informative. Hang in there and be patient, hard as it may be.
Stupid exploiters are at it again. This is the result of all those negative AH bids you've seen. Someone found a way to exploit that and create massive AD dumps. There's going to have to be some significant economy balancing after this so I'm very curious to see what steps they take. Hopefully, anyone touching that bug gets a perma-ban and their transactions unwound and obliterated.
I really hope I didn't accidentally 'touch that bug' while using the AH and get a perma ban. I will be seriously pissed.
No wipes or anything of the sort is needed. Not even a global rollback. All accounts that have exploited the issue can and will be identified. Those accounts can be banned. If they stockpiled any AD/Zen on mule accounts, those accounts can also be identified and banned. All it takes is a few database queries and tracing logs on flagged accounts which is what they are currently doing. This is just a time consuming process.
All I see here is a lot of fearmongering from people who do not realize how these things work. Which is understandable. Please relax and let them finish their work.
I also see a lot of "founders" claiming this and that without even being founders (founders can easily be identified by the "Hero of the North" or "Guardian" forum titles under their names--like you can see on mine).
Spamming this thread with opinions on what you think should be done is absolutely pointless. Specially when you have no idea what is and what is not feasible technically.
The only people who have anything to fear about this are the ones who used the exploit. Just relax, take a breath and wait for them to finish. No catastrophic unrepairable damage was done.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but how do you know no damage was done or what is feasible for them? Even if you're a rockstar developer somewhere, unless you're on the Neverwinter team, you're just speculating. If you were on their team, you wouldn't be able to post this, so your speculation is no more valid than anyone else's.
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slikkerishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
I am in favor of a complete wipe. As long as I get my Founders pack and some Zen I purchased.
Comments
When in the real world your always in the dark do you realize that your being scammed every day? Do you realize you do not get a receipt for what Government spends taxes on? Do you realize as an American citizen you are not allowed to know where the money goes all you know is 50% goes straight into military projects we have no right to know about... Trillions of dollars go missing and our own government can't explain it and won't explain it because your not allowed to know even though it's your right to know. The CIA is allowed by law to take as much money as they want from any division of the government with no disclosure and answer to no one.
All this real insane stuff going on in the world and your crying more over a game and its broken economy that you have absolutely no control over.
So people exploited and now your calling AD and Zen worthless because there is so much around... seriously complaining about game economy what a joke. Have you seen the amount of money there is in the real world? Trillions and trillions Gas/oil alone is a 600 trillion dollar industry looks to me like Gas/oil have been exploiting people for years don't forget the banks they hold everyone's money so they have even more but guess whats even better the five top banks are owned by the five top Gas/oil companies so who owns your Government when the Government became corrupt and sold the banks and now have no control over the money. They own 51% of the worlds income/money and you tell me they don't run the world? You realize there is only 6-7 billion people on the planet. Why does poverty exist? Where is middle class going? Why are all the problems still around and getting progressively worse when there's more than enough money and to fix all of them.
I can make a company now days to and make a game and call it open beta and sell items for real money and then I could even close it down before it ever became retail and have pocketed some of that money and all the people that spent money on the game that wasn't "technically" out and well to bad for you the game wasn't out and you knew the entire time they can cancel it and you would probably get no money back. When you scam people the right way it's not against the law **** look at the Government and see what they created and **** they still got taken over and became corrupt by money and power. More people get away doing corrupt things than good look at the alcohol and tobacco companies they get away with murder lol... Everyone seems to be okay with that fact but the companies they only see it as money. Seriously calling a game open beta or any type of beta at all and charging money selling items is just another scam that is legal to get away with. Sorry but once you start charging money your game is retail in less it's donations.
Oh and don't forget how many people are addicted to pharmaceutical drugs in which I don't understand why you would ever even think about taking something that has over 20 side effects and one of them is "may cause death" if this occurs call your doctor right away... Really think the people making them drugs don't know what every single ingredient effect has on the body? Really don't think there's natural cures for everything? Maybe you need to take a good look at the perfect example of a planet we live on to show you what is possible. For example notice the planet has free wireless energy that it generates itself go learn about the ionosphere. Why make a cure for cancer you would put thousands of people out of jobs... probably why it's patent was never released just like the 5200+ free energy patents that are missing. For example if it's superior to Gas/oil in every single way why let the public know about it when you can stamp classified on it and continue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the people and the planet for money, power and control?
You tried to win the lotto? **** if everyone in the world gave everyone 1$ that's 6 billion times easier than winning the lotto and plus your going to have 6+ billion dollars. The lotto just scams your *** and pockets the money.
My question to you is what is currency worth seriously? Can you not figure it out it causes the same **** thing in the real world as it does in games.
Seriously stop crying about this problem it's not even that big of a deal because after all it's only "Open Beta" right?
Welcome to Earth controlled by corporatism.
EXACTLY. Besides, leveling is incredibly fast in this game. While pay to play games make everything a lengthy grind to keep your monthly sub., in Neverwinter you gain a level every 4-5 quest turn ins. Sure, I'm only lvl 51 but I've played most MMO's since Everquest I and would be no where as close to max level in those games as I am in this one with my current play style.
I have to give PW some latitude here and hope they figure a way to penalize the exploiters and replace whatever damage was done without losing my character
I may actually shed a tear, believe me when I say, if you do dungeon dailies and you are a cleric, it aint an easy way to level, just saying, I would hate to repeat the work again leveling a cleric, I like her just the way she is now
I admit I made some mistakes over time that had I known about in-game would have made playing my character easier, but that's why I have other character slots
GL PW
This way legit paying customers wont get ****ed over and most of the damage is likely repaired.
Personally I think they should wipe the servers, and simply re-credit the zen and/or founder's packs that people have bought. How else can you actually fix the game and make it competitive again? I'm not convinced any other solution is more than a band-aid on a gaping wound.
Whoever is the Database Architect/Administrator who came up with a database model and didn't slap a constraint on the bids such that this couldn't happen, needs to be fired. immediately.
This is impossible, as they plan on merging all the server eventually.
I agree. Ahh yes youthful impatience. They will get it sorted as equitably as they can without ruining the game for everyone.
By sheer coincidence (and I mean coincidence) I looked up on thew wiki yesterday how to transfer AD from one character to another one of mine (I got the founder pack and wanted to trfr a small amount of AD to be able to train the companion on the second char). Apparently the only way is via the AH (as per the wiki). So I posted a scrub item with a 10K buyout and after several logouts and logins to actually find the thing it all worked (minus the 10% AH cut). But the logouts and logins were because I couldn't find the item I posted amid the thousands of wierd postings. The AH seemed to be flooded with stuff. I hope my little sojourn into twinking and alt (legitimately as per the wiki) doesn't trigger their little flag.
They will get it sorted and we should be patient enough to let them get it right.
Honestly, enough about a total wipe.
If any of you seriously think that they would completely wipe this game and set it back to square one...you are out of your **** minds. Why is this still a topic? There will not be a wipe.
I repeat, there will not be a wipe...think about what it entails. Its not happening so stop dreaming.
Of course they should all get banned right away. Fucck you exploiters. Fucck you.
I'm a Guardian Pack Founder and I don't have the forum title so maybe you should actually get your fact straight before you go spouting off nonsense in a public forum which makes yourself look like a complete idiot in the process and subsequently devalues the rest of your points which may or may not have been legitimate.
this mistake is imputed to the developer - exploits are a natural part of economy - since this is their interest and more, in their control to have address it
thaw this is i-relevant
as fore a solution
ewwwwwwwwwww
Agree. I did not spend a lot of money but i did spend some. If there has to be a complete wipe and reset as long as i get my zen credits back then i have no issues.
In my opinion is this a game killing way to solve it, I understand that you want were you payed for. But I can tell you this: I have invited 3 friends to start playing this game (and two of them are WoW players who are used to spend a uge amounts of money to good MMORPGs). And they are all complaining about downtime because of updates (we are just unlucky that it's mostly on the time that we are free from school and done with homework and wanted to relax ;-) ). This are also potential players who will give money to the game and if you think that they say: "Oww, servers down for 5 days, never mind, I will start again in 5 days, no problem!" than you are wrong.
Head of PR
http://www.gamersaurs.com/
Fools, you did even read the paypal EULA, you have no protection on digital goods.. here is a quote.
11.5 Items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection. The following are examples of items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection.
•Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
•Items that you deliver in person, including in connection with In-Store Checkout.
•Intangible items, including Digital Goods, and services.
•PayPal Direct Payments.
• Virtual Terminal Payments.
•PayPal Business Payments.
•Items that are not shipped to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery.
I really hope I didn't accidentally 'touch that bug' while using the AH and get a perma ban. I will be seriously pissed.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but how do you know no damage was done or what is feasible for them? Even if you're a rockstar developer somewhere, unless you're on the Neverwinter team, you're just speculating. If you were on their team, you wouldn't be able to post this, so your speculation is no more valid than anyone else's.