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We really need some reassurance Cryptic!!!
pyke1
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 43
As of right now, both fighter classes are not only not needed in end game content, but no longer wanted. 40% of your classes are completely broken. I understand you guys have a ton of things to work on and fix and such. But does this not seem like it should be at the top of that list? I understand it takes time to gather the data you need to make an educated stab at fixing the GF and GWF. But could we please at least get an official word from a Dev giving us an ETA or something? If I can't tank dungeons, with a tank, within the next few weeks Ill just stop playing because Im bored and cant participate in this game anymore. Im sure a lot of other folks are feeling the same way. When is the complete uselessness of fighters and the wonky out of control agro going to be addressed?
Edit - Someone said it was a good idea, so here.
I just want to tank a dungeon without feeling like I have to not only fight the monsters, but also the mechanics. Either get rid of, or fix the mark mechanic. Sure it sorta works. But it isn't fun to use AT ALL. If it isn't fun then what is the point? The whole thing needs an over hall.
Also please take that HAMSTER off GF tab ability, and replace it with something fun. Not up to date on my DnD, but I'd like to see something that involves the shield, because that is what makes GF unique. Maybe a something like the GWF. But instead of 50% dmg mitigation with faster attack speed and cc immunity, make ours 50% dmg reduction, our guard cannot be reduced below 1%, and we do not suffer from combat advantage or maybe we are immune to crits. If you wanted to add a damage component to it maybe make it reflect a % of all damage taken as a stacking dot. Make it produce a HAMSTER ton of threat while you are at it.
If something like that was made, it would allow GF to grab agro on a butt load of mosters and the boss and survive the damage spike in short bursts. This will let the GF maintain boss aggro, while being able to share the roll of add control. GF brings them all in, CW throws AS out to the side of you when your tab ability runs out, and then the GWF pops his tab ability and snags them all up when they come out the other side. That sounds like being a main tank to me. Controlling the battle, and then handing the trash off to your teammates.
Edit - Got to thinking about that tab ability more. If something like that was implemented, make sure you put some buffs for it in the defensive feat tree. If the defensive tree could have it up more often than the Conq or Tact trees, it would be a good step towards a tank that focuses on being tanky while staying viable.
Edit - Another thought I had. I honestly feel like either bringing the damage of Renegade CW spec way down, or limiting their ability to provide crazy aoe CC via stupid fast AP gain from 5% AP gain per crit would relieve a lot of the problems with getting kicked from groups as a fighter right now. I love my Renegade CW, but either the damage needs to come down, or the AP gain needs to be reduced. With lucky crits my CW can literally build a full AP bar with a single rotation of encounters and a few Magic Missiles thrown in.
Edit - Someone said it was a good idea, so here.
I just want to tank a dungeon without feeling like I have to not only fight the monsters, but also the mechanics. Either get rid of, or fix the mark mechanic. Sure it sorta works. But it isn't fun to use AT ALL. If it isn't fun then what is the point? The whole thing needs an over hall.
Also please take that HAMSTER off GF tab ability, and replace it with something fun. Not up to date on my DnD, but I'd like to see something that involves the shield, because that is what makes GF unique. Maybe a something like the GWF. But instead of 50% dmg mitigation with faster attack speed and cc immunity, make ours 50% dmg reduction, our guard cannot be reduced below 1%, and we do not suffer from combat advantage or maybe we are immune to crits. If you wanted to add a damage component to it maybe make it reflect a % of all damage taken as a stacking dot. Make it produce a HAMSTER ton of threat while you are at it.
If something like that was made, it would allow GF to grab agro on a butt load of mosters and the boss and survive the damage spike in short bursts. This will let the GF maintain boss aggro, while being able to share the roll of add control. GF brings them all in, CW throws AS out to the side of you when your tab ability runs out, and then the GWF pops his tab ability and snags them all up when they come out the other side. That sounds like being a main tank to me. Controlling the battle, and then handing the trash off to your teammates.
Edit - Got to thinking about that tab ability more. If something like that was implemented, make sure you put some buffs for it in the defensive feat tree. If the defensive tree could have it up more often than the Conq or Tact trees, it would be a good step towards a tank that focuses on being tanky while staying viable.
Edit - Another thought I had. I honestly feel like either bringing the damage of Renegade CW spec way down, or limiting their ability to provide crazy aoe CC via stupid fast AP gain from 5% AP gain per crit would relieve a lot of the problems with getting kicked from groups as a fighter right now. I love my Renegade CW, but either the damage needs to come down, or the AP gain needs to be reduced. With lucky crits my CW can literally build a full AP bar with a single rotation of encounters and a few Magic Missiles thrown in.
Post edited by pyke1 on
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dat balance
All I am able to do in game is foundry, auction housing, and running around waiting for profession/altar cds.
PvP? right, that fits right in the "running around" category, I can't kill anything, and I'm so squishy that I had to wear protection gear for PvP, even that I get 2-shotted often enough.
Dungeons, if there's a GWF, it's almost a guaranteed /kick, it takes hours to even find a T2 group.
I mean, sure I can wait for a change or roll another class,
but I don't feel like playing a game where there is not even an intention on fixing things.
The two classes that interest me the most, the GWF and the GF, are both in a very bad spot for end game PVE. Sure, the guild group probably would not have a problem with me coming along at level 60, but neither of these classes would be any better than bringing two of another.
I just wish I knew when things were going to improve. I have heard stories of other game like Champions, CoH, etc. That the tanking class was not brought up to spec for more than half a year. That's nuts. I do not know if I will wait that long.
I do like this game. I want to play it. I guess I should just roll another class or two and bide my time.
judging from the looks of it. i dont think they will fix gwf till 2014
working as intended.
If something like that was made, it would allow GF to grab agro on a butt load of mosters and the boss and survive the damage spike in short bursts. This will let the GF maintain boss aggro, while being able to share the roll of add control. GF brings them all in, CW throws AS out to the side of you when your tab ability runs out, and then the GWF pops his tab ability and snags them all up when they come out the other side. That sounds like being a main tank to me. Controlling the battle, and then handing the trash off to your teammates.
drinking potions while holding a 2 handed weapon had to have some downside, for balance.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
+1 I am really regretting that founders pack already
Actually in Champions Tank were broken and very very powerful. They could get damage stacks and enrage stacks that made them very powerful AKA Hulk Smash. It took a long time but eventually cryptic gave damage stacks to all characters to balance things out. This kinda made ranged characters a bit too good.
That's proabbaly the best idea I've seen for the GF Tab ability yet.
But I would simplify it
Give it a cooldown of about 15-20 seconds
Duration 5 seconds. You do not lose any guard meter while blocking, and you build massive threat on all mobs around you in s small radius while guarding.
Now the only thing that would need to be fixed is to give the GF another low level marking ability. Proably adding a marking to all of the GFs at wills would make sense or Move the paragon path at-will to replace tide of Iron at low levels. Tide or Iron is a useless at will anyways as you get a version of it while blocking
ranged is an advantage on it's own, and at this game only GF and GWF have no range BUT GWF have much worse CC, no reliable gap closers, no dodge/block(on demand CC immunity)... in short, fixing GWF damage isn't enough, but it's one less con and one more pro for the class.
the GF on the other hand needs 3 things:
1. fix threat.
2.make bosses require heavy defenses ( bosses sustained damage coming from big attacks rather than add swarm, at least on main bosses)
3. make the guarded attacks more responsive.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
I can't believe, given the severity of the situation, that no one from Cryptic has responded to one of the many many threads regarding these issues
Alienating the people playing 2 out of 5 classes by giving them the silent treatment is not only terrible business but also a complete lack of respect for the people trying to enjoy your game
I'm willing to wait it out IF we could get an official response. I'm not even looking for specifics, simply an achknowledgement of the current situation and that they're working on it would be enough
I don't think that's asking too much
EDIT
And a dev saying they're aware a class doesn't feel right does more damage than good. It's not about the feel of a class, it's about 2 classes being completely useless in end game to the point where they're met with an instant kick almost every time they queue
the thing about class feels just make us sure, that devs are totaly out of touch with their own work.
i got 10K GS GWF and TR with 2k less GS got 3times more powerfull atwill. i guess working as intended
However i'll choose to believe the situation is a result of an oversight and they'll fix it. At least until prove otherwise. Call me naive but i really do enjoy the playstyle of GWF and combat as a whole in this game so i'll stick around a bit longer while hoping they'll achknowledge the situation
That is ALL I want. I don't expect the GWF or GF to be fixed right now. I understand that it takes time. All I want is Cryptic to get on these forums, acknowledge the fact that GWF, GF, and any form of end game tanking in general is broken. And let us know that it is one of their top priorities.
Will I see the effort paid off? Because as far as I can see, Cryptic thinks their fighters are A-OK. Sure a group with a GF or GWF can complete end game dungeons, but they are not needed, nor wanted.
I would honestly like to see an entire rework of the mark system. It is not fun to use and it really seems to do very little. At lower levels I could tell marking had an effect. At end game it almost feels pointless to try and maintain marks. Another reason why I hate the mark system is because it makes me waste my guard meter on attacks I would rather face tank, so I can save that guard meter for when I actually need it. I would either like the whole concept to be removed from the game, or make it less punishing to use and have an actual impact on the game. I'm honestly at a loss for suggestions though. I simply cannot think of how wasting time marking enemies, solely to maintain aggro, is fun in anyway. It is an unoriginal and boring mechanic.
Also Tide of Iron is not useless, its just useless once you get a gap closer with no cd that also marks enemies. Tide of Iron in itself is good. 10% Guard recovery, decent damage, and a defense debuff. If I didn't have to always have Cleave to keep enough dps going to hold agro, I would run Tide of Iron with the paragon at-will.
My question is, if the GWF can't be a damage-dealing role or really a tank or threat role then what good is it?!
Honestly, once geared, late game GWF AOE dmg is not far off from being in a good spot. The problem is, why have a GWF there to burn down adds, when you can just control them for infinite amounts of time or simply knock them off a cliff. However GWF ability to tank, or off tank is pathetic outside of initiation of fights or while indomitable is up...and that is IF he can somehow get agro. I'd like to see the GWF be the go to guy for AOE dps, but when there is no AOE to be done, the GWF should be able to transition to a decent level of single target dps while being able to off tank. The GWF should be able to do all three of these things regardless of spec. Your spec should just determine which one you are the best at.
I feel like GF has it even worse, from what i've seen they tank only a little better than a GWF (with unstoppable up, which it usually always is) but put out a lot less damage, and seem to displace mobs (everyone seems to want them clumped so they can be pushed)
I've been wanting to try GF but I have a feeling their level 60 experience is even more depressing than a GWFs
Well GF is not worth playing at end game at the moment. But your assumptions of the class are a little off. GF if actually specced as a tank is pretty much unkillable. Problem is we can't do enough dps to maintain agro as a tank specced tank. Also GF does not put out a lot less dmg. With proper gear and spec a GF can get very close to striker level single target dps. If I had to choose between a lvl 60 GWF or GF, Id still go with GF simply because at least we still wreck PvP without having to completely rely on a one shot stun combo to do anything.
To be clear here, your talking about two TOTALLY diff specs and ways of gearing. A GF is not *unkillable* and *Striker level DPS*
GF is either damm hardy and does next to no DPS and totally HAMSTER threat. Or is as soft as a CW and puts out good DPS. Our block in DPS spec lasts all of 1 hit, we're basically strikers with no evasion mechanic when geared / spec'd that way. Sure our numbers over a run look good, but only if there is not a CW / DC knocking HAMSTER into pits on doom. GF DPS is all about the cleave. Our ST DPS is still no where close to a rogues. If your doing comparable DPS to an equally geared rogue ... that rogue is bad. (talking pure ST here, not cleaving wave upon wave of boss trash)
You're kidding me right? I do just fine in PVP.