To be clear here, your talking about two TOTALLY diff specs and ways of gearing. A GF is not *unkillable* and *Striker level DPS*
GF is either damm hardy and does next to no DPS and totally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> threat. Or is as soft as a CW and puts out good DPS. Our block in DPS spec lasts all of 1 hit, we're basically strikers with no evasion mechanic when geared / spec'd that way. Sure our numbers over a run look good, but only if there is not a CW / DC knocking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into pits on doom. GF DPS is all about the cleave. Our ST DPS is still no where close to a rogues. If your doing comparable DPS to an equally geared rogue ... that rogue is bad. (talking pure ST here, not cleaving wave upon wave of boss trash)
Lol not trying to be rude I don't feel like you read what I wrote. I said almost everything you just said. But don't exaggerate. GF can get "near" striker level dps with a PvP spec, but its "near" striker level dps and we are not as squishy as CW by a long shot. But that just means it takes three giant crits to kill you, instead of 2. GF can also do enough DPS to maintain aggro on a small number of mobs while still being tanky enough to do it decently.
Really, the GF as a whole, if you exclude the mark system and our tab ability, is a really solid class. Perhaps even slightly unfair in PvP against certain builds that rely on cc. They have all the tools they need to be a monster tank as well. But the single boss mechanic of add spawns, mixed with the over all overtuning of damage and ap gain across all classes makes it a hard argument to bring a fighter along. We don't want to nerf daily's. But we need to bring the ability to use them down to a reasonable level. The number one source of the problem is boss mechanics. As long as every boss requires nothing more than dodging the red and getting rid of adds things won't have room to change much.
I definitely made the mistake of thinking I was going to tank on my GF but I have seen plenty of GF's at cap do tons of damage and pull their weight in groups. The thing is we have a nice balance of the damage we do that other classes don't have, we do well with single and multitarget damage and we can also take hits from adds that other people cant.
Going tank is stupid though, not enough aggro is generated and adds rip you apart of you actually have aggro, against bosses its better to use a class with more mobility.
I'm switching from Dwarf to Half Orc and emphasizing crit with my next build.
Given Cryptic's track record, don't expect any fix for the warrior classes before 6-8 months. Then they'll probably overbuff them to Godmode for a few months, during which TR, DC and CW will be totally useless.
I haven't seen many people with equal gear smoke me in DPS as a GWF. I check every time, and every time they have a purple weapon that whoops my level 52 blue sword I bought with seals.
I'm reserving my judgement until then. That being said, I was in a Dread Vault yesterday with another GWF that barely out DPSed me in all Purple gear. I'm wearing greens/blues. So I think there are some play issues at factor here that might account for some people's complaints. That being said, there's probably a grain of truth to the criticism.
When I really do horrible at damage, it's usually because of a CW that thinks Black Hole is for n00bs and just uses knockbacks.
Like, always.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
gwf needs big single target damage at will most time u dont even aoe end game, gwf also needs viable threat abilitys for its tank build noticed as well his aoe encounter powers are low damage his better off using his at will than some of them
and i am talking about gwf when its 10k gs or so i think if u say view about gwf you should say lvl or gear score becase some points when leveling its fine well tbh i think i could lvl a hirling with out char leveling is that easy on all class's
what matters is end game pvp balancing and end game dungons as is no one wants gwf for ever
Guys it's good to voice oppinions so the devs knows our classes are too weak atm but don't forget this is still open beta(if i'm not misstaken). I bet they are gathering loads of data right now and will fix as much as they can the days they bring it down(if they) for launch and fix issues.
But yes not the most fun being a warrior class right now.
Guys it's good to voice oppinions so the devs knows our classes are too weak atm but don't forget this is still open beta(if i'm not misstaken). I bet they are gathering loads of data right now and will fix as much as they can the days they bring it down(if they) for launch and fix issues.
But yes not the most fun being a warrior class right now.
oh they are gathering data. very important data - lvling speed and POTION usage...... those data relates to endgame sooooooooo much
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Guys it's good to voice oppinions so the devs knows our classes are too weak atm but don't forget this is still open beta(if i'm not misstaken). I bet they are gathering loads of data right now and will fix as much as they can the days they bring it down(if they) for launch and fix issues.
But yes not the most fun being a warrior class right now.
Very true but the thing that worries me is that the only dev feedback we've gotten so far regarding GWF is that it doesn't feel right
That worries me because i haven't seen a lot of people complaining about how the class feels
The problem is that we lack the dps to be a decent dps class unless it's a specific fight that favours us and those are rare. We're not decent tanks either because we lack the ability to hold threat
There is simply no reason to bring a GWF to a t2 because other classes can do it much better
dont give a **** about the economy. dont give a **** about the gateway or foundry. but i do care when there are feat bugs, aggro problems, useless classes, and bad dungeons and queue designs. i'm done till they fix it. logging in once a day to get my coins
MAKE MARK HIT ENEMY AND ALL ENEMIES AROUND IT.
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
dont give a **** about the economy. dont give a **** about the gateway or foundry. but i do care when there are feat bugs, aggro problems, useless classes, and bad dungeons and queue designs. i'm done till they fix it. logging in once a day to get my coins
word up. funny thing is that with this economy problem they showed us that they are able to "fix" things pretty fast.
but when u adress them directly with question about whats up with GF/GWF they dont even bother to reply.
all those feels
dont give a **** about the economy. dont give a **** about the gateway or foundry. but i do care when there are feat bugs, aggro problems, useless classes, and bad dungeons and queue designs. i'm done till they fix it. logging in once a day to get my coins
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i'm done with this game too, they don't give a **** to GF problems
3
farming ADs and hoping that they will fix it before RIFT goes f2p on 12th june, if not i'll give ADs to friend and abandon ship. Not planing to pay single dime
GF - make their "shift" button mechanic an aoe taunt that can be fired while their shield is up. Significantly increase the guard meter (I personally don't think they should have a guard meter, but since several mechanics are tied to improving or refreshing it, at least make it much more durable). Fighters in actual 4E and their marks did some cool stuff. Fighters applied/refreshed marks on any attack, and a marked target was punished whenever a monster made an attack that didn't include the fighter, and when they tried to move away or past the fighter. If the marking mechanic was based off fighter attacks, and GF's could mark anything they hit as part of the attack it might be even better. Also punish monsters more for disregarding the mark. Apply a slow debuff to marked targets so they have a hard time getting away from a fighter, and make them take damage whenever they attack anyone other than the fighter, and have that damage give the fighter more threat. These are just some ideas that are both more in line with 4E D&D and might help the GF's do better.
GWF - Not sure what the intention here was, as it seems this guy can't decide if he is a defender or a striker. Should have been modeled after the D&D 4E Essentials Slayer, who unlike the Great Weapon Fighter build, is not a wannabe striker strapped onto a defender chassis, but is a full fledged fighter striker, that has mechanics and options dedicated to that role. OR scrap the GWF and remake it into the Rageblood Barbarian, which is a 2 weapon striker built around a Rage mechanic and charging enemies, which is what it kinda looks like the GWF was going for in some respects but never fully committed to it. Either way, Cryptic needs to decide what role GWF is trying to fulfill, since hybridization just means he isn't as good as a class devoted only to being either a defender or a striker.
I thought that BASIC class balance , BASIC end game PvP-ing and dungeon mechanics are a priority.... i guess foundry quests , gateway stuffs and new looking mounts are way more important.....
Have you seen the new items in the zen store? I hear they are nice lol.
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kirkhodgesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm with you, some reassurance would be great. But neverwinter is a f2p mmo. Which means it's one step above Farmville. So, we shouldn't hold our breaths (i.e. their won't be a dev response to this thread).
Well even though I didn't get a dev post in this thread. We did get that State of Neverwinter post. The way I read it, is they want to make sure that all game mechanics and exploits are ironed out. Then they want to make sure that all the abilities and feats of each class are working as intended. Then they will look into class balance and hopefully fix the joke we call fighters.
Servers seem pretty stable, most things in the game are starting to work as intended. So hopefully within the next week or two we will start seeing patches that fix known issues with feats and abilities, this alone may help the fighters out. Especially GWF, since from my experience, it seems like a large majority of the feats made zero difference. So maybe towards the end of next month we can see some meaningful balance changes that will hopefully give GWF and GF a job in end game content. I'm being optimistic... let's hope it pays off. Also, good job Cryptic, you guys keep surprising us. Your State of Neverwinter post was very transparent, and at least for me, relieved a lot of my worries.
I agree with the OP, got my GWF to 60 last week and was very happy to have my first and only character to 60. started queuing for T1 dungeons, as soon as i enter, i get instantly kicked lol wtf...... I just wasted all my time leveling that GWF to 60 and i feel like ditching this game now, I really do.
with the login issues and forever loading screens it looks like we'll be waiting months till any class fixes. that and they need to be able to run space missions with the gateway first
MAKE MARK HIT ENEMY AND ALL ENEMIES AROUND IT.
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
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rama07Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
I agree with the OP, got my GWF to 60 last week and was very happy to have my first and only character to 60. started queuing for T1 dungeons, as soon as i enter, i get instantly kicked lol wtf...... I just wasted all my time leveling that GWF to 60 and i feel like ditching this game now, I really do.
IMO, people need to understand what the GF and GWF are supposed to do.
The GF is supposed to keep control of the big bad monsters, not worry about the little minions that die in 3 hits from a CW or GF. Focus on keeping control of the big baddies and you will be much happier in the game.
For GWF, you are not a single target damage striker, leave that to the TR. You are a minion/slightly bigger mob controller. Your goal is to round up all of the little things, and just cleave your way through them.
Once the people playing the game learn this, and stop abusing the ability to kill mobs with cliffs, things will become much more enjoyable for everyone involved.
The GF is supposed to keep control of the big bad monsters, not worry about the little minions that die in 3 hits from a CW or GF. Focus on keeping control of the big baddies and you will be much happier in the game.
For GWF, you are not a single target damage striker, leave that to the TR. You are a minion/slightly bigger mob controller. Your goal is to round up all of the little things, and just cleave your way through them.
GF - TR tanks just fine under astral shield... or two.
GWF - CW pushes mobs off the cliff much faster then GWF kills them.
The only goal those 2 serve right now is making any party do a 4 man dungeon with little 'extra' help.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
CW also does more damage than GWF
GF also does more damage than GWF
TR also does more damage than GWF
DC also has the capability to do more damage than GWF
IMO, people need to understand what the GF and GWF are supposed to do.
The GF is supposed to keep control of the big bad monsters, not worry about the little minions that die in 3 hits from a CW or GF. Focus on keeping control of the big baddies and you will be much happier in the game.
For GWF, you are not a single target damage striker, leave that to the TR. You are a minion/slightly bigger mob controller. Your goal is to round up all of the little things, and just cleave your way through them.
Once the people playing the game learn this, and stop abusing the ability to kill mobs with cliffs, things will become much more enjoyable for everyone involved.
This is what everybody thought when started playing there fighters. Nothing new. Not a lesson you can teach us.
We are talking about the state of the game as it is now... thats a whole other story. A bit of a nightmare tbh...
Comments
Lol not trying to be rude I don't feel like you read what I wrote. I said almost everything you just said. But don't exaggerate. GF can get "near" striker level dps with a PvP spec, but its "near" striker level dps and we are not as squishy as CW by a long shot. But that just means it takes three giant crits to kill you, instead of 2. GF can also do enough DPS to maintain aggro on a small number of mobs while still being tanky enough to do it decently.
Really, the GF as a whole, if you exclude the mark system and our tab ability, is a really solid class. Perhaps even slightly unfair in PvP against certain builds that rely on cc. They have all the tools they need to be a monster tank as well. But the single boss mechanic of add spawns, mixed with the over all overtuning of damage and ap gain across all classes makes it a hard argument to bring a fighter along. We don't want to nerf daily's. But we need to bring the ability to use them down to a reasonable level. The number one source of the problem is boss mechanics. As long as every boss requires nothing more than dodging the red and getting rid of adds things won't have room to change much.
Going tank is stupid though, not enough aggro is generated and adds rip you apart of you actually have aggro, against bosses its better to use a class with more mobility.
I'm switching from Dwarf to Half Orc and emphasizing crit with my next build.
I'm reserving my judgement until then. That being said, I was in a Dread Vault yesterday with another GWF that barely out DPSed me in all Purple gear. I'm wearing greens/blues. So I think there are some play issues at factor here that might account for some people's complaints. That being said, there's probably a grain of truth to the criticism.
When I really do horrible at damage, it's usually because of a CW that thinks Black Hole is for n00bs and just uses knockbacks.
Like, always.
and i am talking about gwf when its 10k gs or so i think if u say view about gwf you should say lvl or gear score becase some points when leveling its fine well tbh i think i could lvl a hirling with out char leveling is that easy on all class's
what matters is end game pvp balancing and end game dungons as is no one wants gwf for ever
But yes not the most fun being a warrior class right now.
oh they are gathering data. very important data - lvling speed and POTION usage...... those data relates to endgame sooooooooo much
That worries me because i haven't seen a lot of people complaining about how the class feels
The problem is that we lack the dps to be a decent dps class unless it's a specific fight that favours us and those are rare. We're not decent tanks either because we lack the ability to hold threat
There is simply no reason to bring a GWF to a t2 because other classes can do it much better
dont give a **** about the economy. dont give a **** about the gateway or foundry. but i do care when there are feat bugs, aggro problems, useless classes, and bad dungeons and queue designs. i'm done till they fix it. logging in once a day to get my coins
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
word up. funny thing is that with this economy problem they showed us that they are able to "fix" things pretty fast.
but when u adress them directly with question about whats up with GF/GWF they dont even bother to reply.
all those feels
2
i'm done with this game too, they don't give a **** to GF problems
farming ADs and hoping that they will fix it before RIFT goes f2p on 12th june, if not i'll give ADs to friend and abandon ship. Not planing to pay single dime
GWF - Not sure what the intention here was, as it seems this guy can't decide if he is a defender or a striker. Should have been modeled after the D&D 4E Essentials Slayer, who unlike the Great Weapon Fighter build, is not a wannabe striker strapped onto a defender chassis, but is a full fledged fighter striker, that has mechanics and options dedicated to that role. OR scrap the GWF and remake it into the Rageblood Barbarian, which is a 2 weapon striker built around a Rage mechanic and charging enemies, which is what it kinda looks like the GWF was going for in some respects but never fully committed to it. Either way, Cryptic needs to decide what role GWF is trying to fulfill, since hybridization just means he isn't as good as a class devoted only to being either a defender or a striker.
seems legit.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Servers seem pretty stable, most things in the game are starting to work as intended. So hopefully within the next week or two we will start seeing patches that fix known issues with feats and abilities, this alone may help the fighters out. Especially GWF, since from my experience, it seems like a large majority of the feats made zero difference. So maybe towards the end of next month we can see some meaningful balance changes that will hopefully give GWF and GF a job in end game content. I'm being optimistic... let's hope it pays off. Also, good job Cryptic, you guys keep surprising us. Your State of Neverwinter post was very transparent, and at least for me, relieved a lot of my worries.
with the login issues and forever loading screens it looks like we'll be waiting months till any class fixes. that and they need to be able to run space missions with the gateway first
MAKE THREATENING RUSH A 2-3 SECOND TAUNT THAT STILL MARKS THE SAME WAY.
REMOVE HEALING AGGRO.
Heck, I'm already getting kicked at lv. 40.
The GF is supposed to keep control of the big bad monsters, not worry about the little minions that die in 3 hits from a CW or GF. Focus on keeping control of the big baddies and you will be much happier in the game.
For GWF, you are not a single target damage striker, leave that to the TR. You are a minion/slightly bigger mob controller. Your goal is to round up all of the little things, and just cleave your way through them.
Once the people playing the game learn this, and stop abusing the ability to kill mobs with cliffs, things will become much more enjoyable for everyone involved.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
GF - TR tanks just fine under astral shield... or two.
GWF - CW pushes mobs off the cliff much faster then GWF kills them.
The only goal those 2 serve right now is making any party do a 4 man dungeon with little 'extra' help.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
GF also does more damage than GWF
TR also does more damage than GWF
DC also has the capability to do more damage than GWF
This is what everybody thought when started playing there fighters. Nothing new. Not a lesson you can teach us.
We are talking about the state of the game as it is now... thats a whole other story. A bit of a nightmare tbh...