First your power is incredibly low. Like very very god aweful low. Second You are using the wrong skills. No wonder your damage is low and you think we need buffs.
Saviorgun could you please PM me a screenshot of your stats and sure strike damage tooltip? Anyway don't consider the powers I have loaded I was just doing some tests that's all.
I have a GWF in guild with over 5500 power and from what I've checked he does very little damage more because power flat damage influences very little the at-wills.
First your power is incredibly low. Like very very god aweful low. Second You are using the wrong skills. No wonder your damage is low and you think we need buffs.
/facepalm
4k plus power is not 'incredibly low.' Power isn't even something someone should really be worrying about, it's god awful (linear scaling is bad, especially super low linear scaling).
you need to use indomitable and flourish in order to deal some dps
if you use other skills then you are useless in dps department
that is the sad part ( reason is because our at wills are just too weak )
i want to use skills such as battlefury, leap, etc but since our at wills are too weak we need some kind of damage.
we are using a 2h weapon for dam sake and not a stick baton
I read somewhere that mobs have generally >22% damage reduction. I have Constitution Focus, 25 Con and 5% Armour Penetration (total 22%)... If I hit a mob I still get reduced about 8% while my friend trickster rogue with 22% from gear only hitting the same mob doesn't get reduced.
This is quite annoying, because could mean that constitution armour pen doesn't work. Could someone do some tests as well? ... And eventually bug report?
It's not really on to have the big guy with the big sword being outdone in DPS and damage by the rogue. It makes no sense. We shouldn't have to struggle through 40 levels of impossible misery, spending all our money on potions just to survive when playing the supposed damage-dealing class. I really hope Cryptic sorts this out soon.
It's not really on to have the big guy with the big sword being outdone in DPS and damage by the rogue. It makes no sense. We shouldn't have to struggle through 40 levels of impossible misery, spending all our money on potions just to survive when playing the supposed damage-dealing class. I really hope Cryptic sorts this out soon.
I agree. Apparently in Cryptic's eyes, working as intended = Your damage sucks so you level slower. Thus you play longer before you start getting kicked from groups.
I agree. Apparently in Cryptic's eyes, working as intended = Your damage sucks so you level slower. Thus you play longer before you start getting kicked from groups.
I wanted 3 things from cryptic as far as the GWF is concerned:
1. acknowledge the GWF is broken.
2. revert to BW3 while something deeper is done about the class.
3. release the damage formulas(and other hidden stats if possible) for the community.
Obviously the lead game designer have no clue. The problem with GWF is two folds. First our skill does not scale well in terms to the power curve and in relation to the other two DPS class - CW and TR. And second our skill animation takes too long to execute, there's too much build up time in which we are literally rooted in the ground unable to react to new situations. Example: I do Intomindable weapon strike, my character does the winds up animation, then the boss does his super attack, my character literally cannot move away for 2 seconds until the animation finishes. The temporary solution is to use sprint to cancel the wind up animation, which consume stamina. GWF is an agility/finesse fighter while we lack in damage migitation or absorption we make it up for it by being finesse. Unfortunately the game mechanic simply does not allow that to happen hence we're sitting ducks and it makes the class feel weak and undesirable.
Is anyone using Reaping Strike? Test that out, see what the power scaling is on it. Highest crit I've seen is 12k on a debuffed target. That's one hit that takes 3.5 seconds to execute without unstoppable, and it's an at-will. Yes, I use the destroyer 25% buff to single-target damage with it, as well as the 10% increase to at-will damage.
Honestly wondering if you tested it on RS, or just Sure Strike. I question you on this because Sure Strike is worthless even as a single-target ability, yet everyone seems to use it for some reason.
Is it just because it's obviously single target and looks cool so it must be better? Even when WMS is barely behind it in damage as an AoE skill? Or are you tapping WMS and cancelling into Sure Strike?
Honestly curious here.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I think WMS and Wicked Strike is a better combo for dungeons. Sure strike is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dmg not, aoe but it's fast. The problem with Wicked Strike and WMS is they are very slow.
Slow is only a problem if you don't hit them. If the damage you get in trade for being slow is good damage, then it's worthwhile.
WMS combined with Wicked Strike is powerful if you're an Instigator build, as Instigator gets a buff to Wicked Strike that increases the damage you get per target hit by 5%. Even if this just removes the negatives to damage you get for hitting multiple targets, it's easy to see why it's a go-to choice.
Using Wicked Strikes as a Destroyer is wasting the potential of the Destroyer. If you don't like Reaping Strike, you should really not be a Destroyer build IMO.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Slow is only a problem if you don't hit them. If the damage you get in trade for being slow is good damage, then it's worthwhile.
WMS combined with Wicked Strike is powerful if you're an Instigator build, as Instigator gets a buff to Wicked Strike that increases the damage you hit per target hit by 5%. Even if this just removes the negatives to damage you get for hitting multiple targets, it's easy to see why it's a go-to choice.
Using Wicked Strikes as a Destroyer is wasting the potential of the Destroyer. If you don't like Reaping Strike, you should really not be a Destroyer build IMO.
I would like to use reaping strikes if only you can be mobile with it. Charge > run > unleash... Unfortunately most fights are a chaotic affair with lots of moving around and the 3 seconds it takes to charge up is not viable.
I calculated with my damage numbers (from ingame tooltip and taking in account crits) the DPS of a Destroyer Single target Reaping Strike (with +25% damage) VS Sure Strike. Raw numbers, taking into account execution time, says Reaping Strike wins: but the real downside is that it is interruptable and it's not possible to keep up the Destroyer and Weapon Master Stacks. IF you take into account these stacks, single target wise, Sure Strike comes out on the top. So that feats for 25% extra damage are completely worthless because sure strike does more dps if you have destroyer and weapon master feature.
Continuing on this i've also calculated the differece between Sure Strike and Weapon's Master Strike DPS wise: the first one is only roughly 15% better than Weapon Master on single target if you take into account the weaponmaster debuff as well. So ideally SS,WM,SS,WM is the best single target rotation for at-wills. Consider also that WM debuffs VS encounters if you have the relevant feat, making it a very good at-will to use: in theory you can just tap that and forget SS because the difference even in single target is little.
Yeah, 28 GWF here, just chipping in. Ever since I got my Cleric companion at 16 the leveling process has been much easier - I'm no longer a potion-chugging machine. But PvP... oh my god it's so bad. Like, really bad. I have 750 Power, 90% Critical Severity, and most of my items are at least level 26, with even a few blues. My Sure Strike was hitting a Control Wizard for 18. Eighteen. Then an all-time high of 40. My Takedown was hitting for 200, and my Restoring Strike crit for 500. As a reference, I have 7500 hp. Meanwhile I'm walking into Chains of Blazing Light that do 650 damage, and Rogues casually critting me for 1800 left and right. WTF is going on? I can't kill anything.
It makes me wonder whether this is a GWF issue, or if it's a bug of some sort. I've heard of a bug in PvP where if you're not actually 29, the leveling boost you get for PvP actually reduces your stats. Which would explain the above situation, but... I'm still mad
but the real downside is that it is interruptable and it's not possible to keep up the Destroyer and Weapon Master Stacks. IF you take into account these stacks, single target wise, Sure Strike comes out on the top. So that feats for 25% extra damage are completely worthless because sure strike does more dps if you have destroyer and weapon master feature.
In practice alternating with WMS will keep any stacks you care to mention beyond Student of the Sword. While unstoppable, which is where you do your most damage, even SotS will be there quick and a follow up Reaping Strike with fast-cast will finish what WMS started. I've been using this setup in dungeons, and frankly it works fine. I always have 3 destroyer and 5 WM stacks.
I mean, what are the upsides of Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike for a Destroyer? It's interruptable by the same stuff Reaping Strikes is interruptable by. You get knocked back with RS, you still keep your charge and the range on RS is further than you might think. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but you can't move at all while using Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike. You can interrupt it's cast, but you can interupt the cast of RS with sprint just as easily. Where is the benefit? The only one I see is that WS and SS are easier to use, and you see fast low numbers. If the slow big numbers do better even over the long term, WTF are you doing using the obviously worse option? Are you being focus fired by everything and eating every interrupt, cone, and circle thrown at you?
Continuing on this i've also calculated the differece between Sure Strike and Weapon's Master Strike DPS wise: the first one is only roughly 15% better than Weapon Master on single target if you take into account the weaponmaster debuff as well. So ideally SS,WM,SS,WM is the best single target rotation for at-wills. Consider also that WM debuffs VS encounters if you have the relevant feat, making it a very good at-will to use: in theory you can just tap that and forget SS because the difference even in single target is little.
In consideration of the OP, I'm really only curious about how it scales so I appreciate knowing that Reaping Strike is indeed on top. I can see how people might have problems with the way Reaping Strike executes, but I don't see it that way.
Side question, do you think it's coincidence or design intent to put the feat's for Sure Strike in the Sentinel tree? If so, do you think it is an accident that Wicked Strikes is in the Instigator Tree or that Reaping Strike is in the Destroyer tree?
EDIT: Seriously though, I do appreciate you crunching the numbers. I already knew it pulled ahead just from playing it, but it's nice to know for sure.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
mownage123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
Power doesn't scale well at 60 and not really dynamic with any feats
In practice alternating with WMS will keep any stacks you care to mention beyond Student of the Sword. While unstoppable, which is where you do your most damage, even SotS will be there quick and a follow up Reaping Strike with fast-cast will finish what WMS started. I've been using this setup in dungeons, and frankly it works fine. I always have 3 destroyer and 5 WM stacks.
I mean, what are the upsides of Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike for a Destroyer? It's interruptable by the same stuff Reaping Strikes is interruptable by. You get knocked back with RS, you still keep your charge and the range on RS is further than you might think. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but you can't move at all while using Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike. You can interrupt it's cast, but you can interupt the cast of RS with sprint just as easily. Where is the benefit? The only one I see is that WS and SS are easier to use, and you see fast low numbers. If the slow big numbers do better even over the long term, WTF are you doing using the obviously worse option? Are you being focus fired by everything and eating every interrupt, cone, and circle thrown at you?
In consideration of the OP, I'm really only curious about how it scales so I appreciate knowing that Reaping Strike is indeed on top. I can see how people might have problems with the way Reaping Strike executes, but I don't see it that way.
Side question, do you think it's coincidence or design intent to put the feat's for Sure Strike in the Sentinel tree? If so, do you think it is an accident that Wicked Strikes is in the Instigator Tree or that Reaping Strike is in the Destroyer tree?
EDIT: Seriously though, I do appreciate you crunching the numbers. I already knew it pulled ahead just from playing it, but it's nice to know for sure.
Last time i tried using Reaping Strike i managed only few times to keep up the stacks of Weapon Master and Destroyer: if you don't time it perfectly you loose them and i often do because i have some delay server due to the fact i'm european so i went for SS and WS that are like you say easier to use. I also appreciate better mobility to be honest, because with these attacks i don't have to be walking super slow while charing reaping strike. You know easier execution also means for me more reliable DPS source that's all.
For sure i can tell you that SS is in the sentinel tree because it is supposed to make you able to tank bosses ... Instigator is an opportunist while i feel destroyer much like a frontal assault DPS.
Wanna be a good GWF? Spec for Reaping Strike and actually use it. Know which boss skills won't one-shot you so that you ALWAYS have determination going.
Nothing I love more than bursting off 25k average Reaping Strikes on a boss every 1.5s(Some RS's as high as 35k).
GWF's are broken in the sense that our Encounters suck, sure. But in the damage department? Hardly.
Edit note: I am a pot chugging machine. Then again, gold isn't an issue for me. WTS PVP Epics for Gold ALL DAY
Edit note #2: With only myself/my debuffs Reaping Strike crit for 16.5k
I also appreciate better mobility to be honest, because with these attacks i don't have to be walking super slow while charing reaping strike.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can. Wicked Strikes and Sure Strike do not give you better mobility. They lock you in place. Reaping Strikes is slow, but you can move while charging it.
Reaping Strikes is an increase in mobility over using WS or SS, which do not allow you to move.
They are easier to interrupt during their cast, but with sprint you can just as easily cancel RS.
It's just a tiny bit harder to execute while doing more damage for a destroyer. If you are a Destroyer and using SS, you are doing it wrong and your complaints about damage are due to you using the tanking at-will ability.
The latency issue is the only decent excuse put forward.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I'm level 35. Full blues. Enchanted to the gills. Like, irresponsibly enchanted, with so many R4 and R5s in my gear that I will not be able to unbind the gems before 60.
My sure strike hits for 120 when I'm unstoppable. Down from 160.
The best gear available for my level. Better enchants than 90% of the population (for my level, and to my detriment).
Comments
I have a GWF in guild with over 5500 power and from what I've checked he does very little damage more because power flat damage influences very little the at-wills.
/facepalm
4k plus power is not 'incredibly low.' Power isn't even something someone should really be worrying about, it's god awful (linear scaling is bad, especially super low linear scaling).
if you use other skills then you are useless in dps department
that is the sad part ( reason is because our at wills are just too weak )
i want to use skills such as battlefury, leap, etc but since our at wills are too weak we need some kind of damage.
we are using a 2h weapon for dam sake and not a stick baton
This is quite annoying, because could mean that constitution armour pen doesn't work. Could someone do some tests as well? ... And eventually bug report?
I agree. Apparently in Cryptic's eyes, working as intended = Your damage sucks so you level slower. Thus you play longer before you start getting kicked from groups.
I wanted 3 things from cryptic as far as the GWF is concerned:
1. acknowledge the GWF is broken.
2. revert to BW3 while something deeper is done about the class.
3. release the damage formulas(and other hidden stats if possible) for the community.
how is that unreasonable?
or time consuming?
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Honestly wondering if you tested it on RS, or just Sure Strike. I question you on this because Sure Strike is worthless even as a single-target ability, yet everyone seems to use it for some reason.
Is it just because it's obviously single target and looks cool so it must be better? Even when WMS is barely behind it in damage as an AoE skill? Or are you tapping WMS and cancelling into Sure Strike?
Honestly curious here.
WMS combined with Wicked Strike is powerful if you're an Instigator build, as Instigator gets a buff to Wicked Strike that increases the damage you get per target hit by 5%. Even if this just removes the negatives to damage you get for hitting multiple targets, it's easy to see why it's a go-to choice.
Using Wicked Strikes as a Destroyer is wasting the potential of the Destroyer. If you don't like Reaping Strike, you should really not be a Destroyer build IMO.
I would like to use reaping strikes if only you can be mobile with it. Charge > run > unleash...
Continuing on this i've also calculated the differece between Sure Strike and Weapon's Master Strike DPS wise: the first one is only roughly 15% better than Weapon Master on single target if you take into account the weaponmaster debuff as well. So ideally SS,WM,SS,WM is the best single target rotation for at-wills. Consider also that WM debuffs VS encounters if you have the relevant feat, making it a very good at-will to use: in theory you can just tap that and forget SS because the difference even in single target is little.
Nice to see you around here Ryu,
Kaethline of Cannith
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
It makes me wonder whether this is a GWF issue, or if it's a bug of some sort. I've heard of a bug in PvP where if you're not actually 29, the leveling boost you get for PvP actually reduces your stats. Which would explain the above situation, but... I'm still mad
In practice alternating with WMS will keep any stacks you care to mention beyond Student of the Sword. While unstoppable, which is where you do your most damage, even SotS will be there quick and a follow up Reaping Strike with fast-cast will finish what WMS started. I've been using this setup in dungeons, and frankly it works fine. I always have 3 destroyer and 5 WM stacks.
I mean, what are the upsides of Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike for a Destroyer? It's interruptable by the same stuff Reaping Strikes is interruptable by. You get knocked back with RS, you still keep your charge and the range on RS is further than you might think. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but you can't move at all while using Wicked Strikes or Sure Strike. You can interrupt it's cast, but you can interupt the cast of RS with sprint just as easily. Where is the benefit? The only one I see is that WS and SS are easier to use, and you see fast low numbers. If the slow big numbers do better even over the long term, WTF are you doing using the obviously worse option? Are you being focus fired by everything and eating every interrupt, cone, and circle thrown at you?
In consideration of the OP, I'm really only curious about how it scales so I appreciate knowing that Reaping Strike is indeed on top. I can see how people might have problems with the way Reaping Strike executes, but I don't see it that way.
Side question, do you think it's coincidence or design intent to put the feat's for Sure Strike in the Sentinel tree? If so, do you think it is an accident that Wicked Strikes is in the Instigator Tree or that Reaping Strike is in the Destroyer tree?
EDIT: Seriously though, I do appreciate you crunching the numbers. I already knew it pulled ahead just from playing it, but it's nice to know for sure.
I agree.
Last time i tried using Reaping Strike i managed only few times to keep up the stacks of Weapon Master and Destroyer: if you don't time it perfectly you loose them and i often do because i have some delay server due to the fact i'm european so i went for SS and WS that are like you say easier to use. I also appreciate better mobility to be honest, because with these attacks i don't have to be walking super slow while charing reaping strike. You know easier execution also means for me more reliable DPS source that's all.
For sure i can tell you that SS is in the sentinel tree because it is supposed to make you able to tank bosses
Nothing I love more than bursting off 25k average Reaping Strikes on a boss every 1.5s(Some RS's as high as 35k).
GWF's are broken in the sense that our Encounters suck, sure. But in the damage department? Hardly.
Edit note: I am a pot chugging machine. Then again, gold isn't an issue for me. WTS PVP Epics for Gold ALL DAY
Edit note #2: With only myself/my debuffs Reaping Strike crit for 16.5k
I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can. Wicked Strikes and Sure Strike do not give you better mobility. They lock you in place. Reaping Strikes is slow, but you can move while charging it.
Reaping Strikes is an increase in mobility over using WS or SS, which do not allow you to move.
They are easier to interrupt during their cast, but with sprint you can just as easily cancel RS.
It's just a tiny bit harder to execute while doing more damage for a destroyer. If you are a Destroyer and using SS, you are doing it wrong and your complaints about damage are due to you using the tanking at-will ability.
The latency issue is the only decent excuse put forward.
My sure strike hits for 120 when I'm unstoppable. Down from 160.
The best gear available for my level. Better enchants than 90% of the population (for my level, and to my detriment).
And I do the damage of a level 15 rogue.