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A possible first easy fix for GWF damage.

rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
edited May 2013 in The Militia Barracks
First of all take a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtBIsqU3uJA&feature=youtu.be .

It's very clear to who played GWF that this kind of DPS at level 60 it's doube++ the one you do single target.

...

One easy fix i suggest to GWF is to make Power flat bonus, damage % from strength count double because it's a twohanded weapon. For example 2500 power is 100 flat damage, to a rogue it s much more valuable than to a GWF because the attack speed is higher. On the contrary 100 flat damage have a very little difference over GWF at-wills and lower attack speed.

...

_______EDIT________
Just to underline the very low effect of Power on GWF at wills and their absolutely undecent low damage here are few screenshots... Here i'm considering Sure Strike damage from tooltip (which is the real damage, tested on dummy) in two setups with different power stat. Sure Strike for most of GWF builds is the best single target At-Will power and it does a damage similar to Weapon Master's Strike (though this one is a better AOE). Sure Strike execution time is roughly 2 seconds and it's a 4 attacks combo on which last attack hits for double damage. But let's check the screenshots:

SET1 (with cat summoned):
set1surestrike.png

SET2 (without cat summoned):
set2surestrike.png

From one setup to another the amount of flat damage power gives is 159 on SET2 vs 179 on SET1, the difference is of 20 points of flat damage. The amount of "max" damage Sure Strike does is just barely affected: from set 1 to 2 the difference is of only 9 points of "max" damage. This means that in this case the Sure Strike ability only takes a rough 45% of the flat amount of power you have.
Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
Post edited by rethophis on
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    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wow, someone with a serious (and surprisingly good) point on the forums.


    +1
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    rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    Screenshots added.
    Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
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    rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    It would be nice if a Developer could say a word or two about current state of GWF, because it's very shameful situation we got right now with the class.
    Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    it's beyond ridiculous a rogue does 3k damage non crit on a at will while a GWF does 600.

    on top of that the combo is better.

    but someone will say rogues are pure damage and have no CC, survavibility, mobility,...
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    ceonnynceonnyn Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rethophis wrote: »
    It would be nice if a Developer could say a word or two about current state of GWF, because it's very shameful situation we got right now with the class.

    The producer said yesterday in a video that they know GWF has issues.
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    rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    I'll concede that GWF are very sturdy class, very survivable but they are less survivable than GF: so why GF do more damage with their at will given equal gears (not gearscore because we know GF gearscore it's pumped by their conqueror feat that gives +100% power)?

    CC abilities? Control Wizards do better damage and a lot better CC: they're actually nuke wizards with control abilities.
    ceonnyn wrote: »
    The producer said yesterday in a video that they know GWF has issues.
    Nice to know! Thanks very much.
    Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
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    aorin84aorin84 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ceonnyn wrote: »
    The producer said yesterday in a video that they know GWF has issues.

    He also said "when we look at pure data, in terms of leveling speed and potion usage over time, it seems strictly in line with other classes and where we want it to be, but the FEEL of it isnt coming across very well"

    translation: working as intended, but we may make it look prettier
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    aorin84 wrote: »
    He also said "when we look at pure data, in terms of leveling speed and potion usage over time, it seems strictly in line with other classes and where we want it to be, but the FEEL of it isnt coming across very well"

    translation: working as intended, but we may make it look prettier

    do you know where i can watch?
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    cujo669cujo669 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wow i guess i was right to dump my GWF at level 10. I started with that and then tried a trickster and I could not believe how i had to sit there and trade blows with mobs forever with my GWF compared to my TR multiple mobs or not.

    I always wondered though: was it because the GWF might get much better with high levels? Now i know and they seriously need to increase the DPS of a GWF.
    My halfling trickster is level 44 atm and I put any GWF to shame when I'm near them.
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    feargxfeargx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 65
    edited May 2013
    hedas8 wrote: »
    it's beyond ridiculous a rogue does 3k damage non crit on a at will while a GWF does 600.

    on top of that the combo is better.

    but someone will say rogues are pure damage and have no CC, survavibility, mobility,...

    Yeah my rogue level 1 first at will you get crits for 4-7k a swing, 3-4k normal hits, very fast damage.

    Its insane, while GWF or GF slower dps, much lower damage.
    Profile name / Ingame handle: @FearGXxD
    Shard: Mindflayer
    Characters: Grim, Rune, Holy, Ruin - If the name isn't the @FearGXxD handle, it's not me! =)
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    aorin84aorin84 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    http://www.f2p.com/exclusive-interview-with-neverwinter-lead-producer-andy-velasquez/

    7:42 is the start of the GWF topic
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    even if they fix GWF damage, theyre still pointless compared to instantly killing **** with control wizard via throwing things off cliffs.
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    lilura138lilura138 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hedas8 wrote: »
    it's beyond ridiculous a rogue does 3k damage non crit on a at will while a GWF does 600.

    on top of that the combo is better.

    but someone will say rogues are pure damage and have no CC, survavibility, mobility,...

    When your secondary is a "Striker" 3000 vs. 600 is not valid. It should be more like 3000 vs. 1800. The rogue should be still on top with pure Striker but someone taking their secondary role and focusing on it should be close behind the pure Striker.
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    rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    aorin84 wrote: »
    http://www.f2p.com/exclusive-interview-with-neverwinter-lead-producer-andy-velasquez/

    7:42 is the start of the GWF topic
    Underpowered is an euphemism... And regarding the data, well most of the GWF i've played with expeed in party so most of the data is impure it needs better statistical pre-treatment before being used to say something like the producer said. The class needs a very good rework on its damage abilities.

    I would like to hear something from a developer about why the tanking fighter class does more damage than the striker fighter class, that would be very interesting.
    Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    aorin84 wrote: »
    http://www.f2p.com/exclusive-interview-with-neverwinter-lead-producer-andy-velasquez/

    7:42 is the start of the GWF topic

    thank you.
    /10 char.
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    feargx wrote: »
    Yeah my rogue level 1 first at will you get crits for 4-7k a swing, 3-4k normal hits, very fast damage.

    Its insane, while GWF or GF slower dps, much lower damage.

    we are talking about lvl 60 here as you would know had you watched the video about TRs and read the original post.
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    tumolololtumololol Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This is a segment from a post I did in another forum, however I think it'd fit in better here. Out of lazyness I won't rewrite it so I'll just quote it. Anyways, it'd be my guess on a more overall "fun" fix to GWS single target.
    tumololol wrote: »
    One thing they could do is to buff boss "non special ability dmg" to a point where rogues can't deal with it and make "pushback walls" on all ledges. That'd be an easy and simple fix for most dungeons.

    Now how to deal with that change would be pretty simple too. Firstly, make marks not fall off on caster taking damage (this would also make the GWF 15% extra dmg on marked targets talent better), buff the GF heroic feat which makes marks pull extra threat (make them more viable as tanks) and maybe weave a flat threat increase into another heroic feat for both fighters, the one buffing the defence stats maybe, would make them more viable talents over dps ones.
    Then there's the GWF unfamous dps issue. They're amazing aoe and with beforementioned changes they'd make decent add tanks. However their singletarget, mainly at-wills just plainly suck, they only have sure strike so you know what I'm talking about. WMS is also a boring ability but it would serve as a good wall between a mint aoe, singletarget or hybrid spec. Since if you want either amazing aoe or single target you'd need the debuff. However atm the choice of singletarget or even less of both with having wicked and sure strike together doesn't exist because of sure strike just being bad.
    Buffing sure strike would make it a way more viable class for soloing content and for having another ability that's actually worth using. Making the class more fun etc... One way to do it would be a flat dmg buff, it'd make the class (from what I hear) super strong pvp however. So how about looking at the TR's ranged ability? It increases dmg with every cast and resets once you stop casting. Would be interesting if Sure Strike was a 2 or 3 combo attack with no big slam at the end, however it'd be an neverending stream of attacks, starting as they are now in dmg and would keep increasing by either a % or a flat amount depending on power for every swing. Up to a maximum or... 10x 10% or flat amounts?

    just an idea atleast, sorry for the wall of text and all.

    P.S. Make the animation for WMS more interesting that just a copy of the first swing in wicked!!!! :P

    P.P.S. That would also make the name and description for Sure Strike more amazing. "The Fighter weapon swings make him more sure in the inpending victory for every hit the enemy suffers, making him do more and more dmg."
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    GWF at pvp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_Ds2ytz4o
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    rethophisrethophis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    hedas8 wrote: »
    GWF at pvp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_Ds2ytz4o
    Well, true story :p
    Known as Zerkul on DDO forums I]Ryumajin, Zavarthak, Leohands of Cannith[/I, look for me on YouTube.
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    usagi2697usagi2697 Member Posts: 61
    edited May 2013
    The only thing I didn't regret about rolling a GWF is that it gave me a hella of challenges in PvE/PvP to reach to 60. Feel really excited everytime I had to figure out a trick or think a lot how to complete a Quest or not getting killed by 1 or 2 hits in PvP. Unfortunately, I just got tired of getting killed by 1 shot by a lower gear TR/CW at end game or not being a favor class in dungeon.
    The only thing I regret about rolling a TR is that I should have rolled this class earlier, so that I didn't have to spend a lot of money on respec my GWF or to build my gear repeatedly for a difference.
    I've always played rogue or assassin in other mmo but when I watched the NW GWF class trailer on Youtube, I thought **** it, it's so <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, forget about the rogue, finally a class with cool animation and can beat the hell out of other ppl at the same time. But, it's a trap! :D
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    vaelosvaelos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aorin84 wrote: »
    http://www.f2p.com/exclusive-interview-with-neverwinter-lead-producer-andy-velasquez/

    7:42 is the start of the GWF topic

    Yeah I facepalmed when I listened to this.

    They don't even understand what's happening in the slightest. There's just something wrong with the "feel" of the class obviously!
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    terrorshardterrorshard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vaelos wrote: »
    Yeah I facepalmed when I listened to this.

    They don't even understand what's happening in the slightest. There's just something wrong with the "feel" of the class obviously!

    How can they be so out of touch with their own stuff? Makes me want to abandon the class.
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    incarealincareal Member Posts: 55
    edited May 2013
    terrorshard wrote: »
    How can they be so out of touch with their own stuff? Makes me want to abandon the class.

    yeah. im at 52 atm and everytime i see a TR/CW I cry myself to sleep
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    hedas8hedas8 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    you know devs are awesome at balance when they consider leveling pace (can buy lvl 60) and potion consumption.
    "Vera libertas dissipabis omnem tantibus" me.
    Hedas 60 GWF.
    Hrod 60 GF.
    Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
    Dragon.
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    clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    aorin84 wrote: »
    http://www.f2p.com/exclusive-interview-with-neverwinter-lead-producer-andy-velasquez/

    7:42 is the start of the GWF topic

    Way to steal my forum avatar.
    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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    magilzealmagilzeal Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    vaelos wrote: »
    Yeah I facepalmed when I listened to this.

    They don't even understand what's happening in the slightest. There's just something wrong with the "feel" of the class obviously!

    No, no, they're right. It doesn't feel right when a big swing of a greatsword deals less damage per hit than stabbing something with a little knife. It doesn't feel right when a GWF gets kicked from any epic level group it joins. It doesn't feel right when the GWF can't perform its defined role properly.

    It's all about the feels, apparently.
    Rise of the Fell King - A Forgotten Realms campaign (work in progress) NWS-DS38FJ5R8
    Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH
    Hopefully more to come!


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    usagi2697usagi2697 Member Posts: 61
    edited May 2013
    Feel like an unwanted child, poor little GWF.
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    emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    And what happens with people who prefer to play fighters in MMOs ? I, for one, dont like playing range classes, same goes for the stealth assassin types. I can enjoy a melee cleric with heavy armor and a 2h Mace but what I really like is 2h weapon fighter and I kinda doubt Im the only one. So here is this game that I was looking forward to and actually enjoyed in early betas( got access as a lifetimer in CO) and now in OB my fave class is a wimp, my next choice is getting less and less love ( GF) and so what am I supposed to do? Roll Tr/CW or DC? Short answer is 'no'. I wont be forced into playing a certain way/class in order to be viable, If they make a game then all class options should be viable thus providing the most important thing imo in mmos today, namely the player's choice to play as they like. So to heck with it, Ill just wait till they fix this or till ESO comes out.
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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    saviorgunsaviorgun Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    First your power is incredibly low. Like very very god aweful low. Second You are using the wrong skills. No wonder your damage is low and you think we need buffs.
    Rhek-60 GWF <Folklore>. "Rheking" damage meters since launch. Follow my streamwww.mmominds.com
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    usagi2697usagi2697 Member Posts: 61
    edited May 2013
    saviorgun wrote: »
    First your power is incredibly low. Like very very god aweful low. Second You are using the wrong skills. No wonder your damage is low and you think we need buffs.

    I'm not sure about this but do you really have lot of choices besides: Flourish & Indomitable Battle Strike as a GWF skill? I don't understand what you mean by wrong skills.
    According to his screenshot 4k4 power is not considered as "incredibly low", inspect a TR and check how much is his power and the output dps he does.
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