I see that you are trying out "Battle Trample", what is the response so far? And how does it work anyway?
Thank you.
I'm curious about this, too. I was just this evening pondering going with Trample the Fallen as a class power and taking the Battle Trample feat. What I don't know for sure is what constitutes a "foe affected by a control power". If our taunts count as a control power, then Trample the Fallen would nearly always be in effect, adding 15% to our damage. That's... huge. Throw the Battle Trample Feat on top of that, and we generate even more threat and add 25% weapon damage. That's rather compelling.
Thank you, Rokuthy, for the fantastic guide, and to the posters in this thread for a lively and engaging discussion. This must be the single finest thread in the Neverwinter forums.
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
0
teapotguruMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited May 2013
Firstly, thank you Rokuthy for an awesome guide and to those who have also contributed.
Just seeking clarification on aspects of Enforced Threat and Frontline Surge.
I know that Enforced Threat is capped at 5 targets taunted. Now, is the aoe damage also limited to just those 5 targets as well? Or is it every mob within the aoe 30' range?
I am wondering the same for Frontline Surge. I know it knocks down 3 targets max, but does it damage any other mob in the 10' cylinder?
Reason is I'm looking at the synergy with Into the Fray and Wrathful Warrior as a replacement for one the above.
0
yeshuaruledMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
teapotguru,
I am fairly certain Enforced Threat damages any enemy in the area but only targets 5. I've used it everytime a CW uses Arcane Singularity (groups all enemies into a floating orb) and see more than 5 damage numbers and then if my daily Villain's Menace is up I'll use that and Cleave on through and spam single target encounter spells, not Frontline Surge as I want the mobs to stay in one spot. I based my build on a lot of the content from Envy's and Rokuthy's threads and find myself at the top of the damage charts, or 2nd, in almost every instance I run.
Rokuthy,
Thanks for the informative collaboration and being open minded by respec so often. I really like the sound of the Stalwart set. I'm fairly new to 60 and run PvP gear for Power and Power/Crit/Recovery (control and revolt) where I can.
I'm curious did you actually grind those 4 dungeons to get your set. I have the bracers and have grinded Cragmire about 15 times and keep getting Valiant Warrior and Knight Captain. I saw the prices on the AH, ridiculous I have 400k AD and don't really want to spend it all on one item, I'm on Mindflayer as well. I sent you a friend request but I doubt it will be accepted. The popularity you are getting from this guide is good reason not to. I'm just curious and the set I respec'd to something very close to your Hybrid but I think there is something to Armor Penetration from the PvE aspect. Have you had any respecs with Armor Penetration in mind?
I apologize if this brought up in this thread before, I just couldn't bare to read all 27 pages.
It's actually a little funny, but the helm and chest are the two pieces I farmed myself, while the gloves and boots I had to buy after 25+ Cloak/Crag runs. I got my platesmithing to 20 on the 2nd day of 5 day headstart, and start selling shirts/pants almost immediately. I've probably made 70-90 million AD from crafting in this game, and I've given most of that back to the community through testing various specs, gear, enchants, etc. So I do share as much as I can, even if sometimes my information is vague. I try to be precise as often as possible, but I do not like spreading misinformation without being 100% certain.
Which is why I don't come out and say "no matter what, power is better than crit." I simply point to my source (a spreadsheet), and then give the results based on math. How that math applies to actual in game scenarios will always be up for debate. Math can show that recovery is our strongest stat all day long (which it does), but when you actually apply the use of recovery in game, it may not feel as strong as the math says it should be. The same can be said for any stat, which is why I don't sit here and tell everyone the 'one and true' way to gear their character.
So yeah, I'm very open minded. I've been told by several people that they want to try Trample, or ask if I've tried it, etc. So instead of just saying it's terrible and writing people off, I'm giving it a shot to give everyone my experience with it. And after testing it today, I can say I do like it, but I'm not sure how much yet and I'm not ready to share the results quite yet. Need a little more time.
Another thing I've been testing out lately is the use of ArPen (which you just asked me). After seeing a formula for it (thanks again Sanctumz), it appears that ArPen is potentially our 2nd strongest stat after recovery. So I've been running around with 1,000 ArPen and Trample the Fallen, completely different than my typical setups and builds just to see how things work. Like I said, I enjoy it and I hate writing things off as being bad having never actually tried it. And so far, ArPen seems to be amazing not only on paper, but in game as well.
So right now my stat priorities *would be* - Recovery (3,000) -> ArPen (Don't know yet) -> Power (as much as possible) -> Crit (I happen to have 20% no matter how I flip my gear around, 25% rogue buffed) -> defense -> deflect. It is worth noting that I'm not hitting that recovery benchmark in my Stalwart gear because I'm using 5x Tenebrous enchants.
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
0
isfuturoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Hi Rokuthy,
Thousand appreciated your effort for GF community
I will just added Battle Trample for testing too.
And I love your thread very much which save a lot of our effort.
Thank you!!!!
0
sammylolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Hey rokuthy, I've been bouncing between Envy's guide and this one (both very well done, might I add, good job to you both) and with Envy's build focusing on PvP now, I'm probably going to go with Hybrid like I originally planned. I just have one question about the stat roll though, I was thinking of going Dwarf and going with 16 Str/16 Con/12 Dex with +2 Str and Con. Is this a good roll? Or should I have Con at 20?
Hey rokuthy, I've been bouncing between Envy's guide and this one (both very well done, might I add, good job to you both) and with Envy's build focusing on PvP now, I'm probably going to go with Hybrid like I originally planned. I just have one question about the stat roll though, I was thinking of going Dwarf and going with 16 Str/16 Con/12 Dex with +2 Str and Con. Is this a good roll? Or should I have Con at 20?
It's actually a little funny, but the helm and chest are the two pieces I farmed myself, while the gloves and boots I had to buy after 25+ Cloak/Crag runs. I got my platesmithing to 20 on the 2nd day of 5 day headstart, and start selling shirts/pants almost immediately. I've probably made 70-90 million AD from crafting in this game, and I've given most of that back to the community through testing various specs, gear, enchants, etc. So I do share as much as I can, even if sometimes my information is vague. I try to be precise as often as possible, but I do not like spreading misinformation without being 100% certain.
Which is why I don't come out and say "no matter what, power is better than crit." I simply point to my source (a spreadsheet), and then give the results based on math. How that math applies to actual in game scenarios will always be up for debate. Math can show that recovery is our strongest stat all day long (which it does), but when you actually apply the use of recovery in game, it may not feel as strong as the math says it should be. The same can be said for any stat, which is why I don't sit here and tell everyone the 'one and true' way to gear their character.
So yeah, I'm very open minded. I've been told by several people that they want to try Trample, or ask if I've tried it, etc. So instead of just saying it's terrible and writing people off, I'm giving it a shot to give everyone my experience with it. And after testing it today, I can say I do like it, but I'm not sure how much yet and I'm not ready to share the results quite yet. Need a little more time.
Another thing I've been testing out lately is the use of ArPen (which you just asked me). After seeing a formula for it (thanks again Sanctumz), it appears that ArPen is potentially our 2nd strongest stat after recovery. So I've been running around with 1,000 ArPen and Trample the Fallen, completely different than my typical setups and builds just to see how things work. Like I said, I enjoy it and I hate writing things off as being bad having never actually tried it. And so far, ArPen seems to be amazing not only on paper, but in game as well.
So right now my stat priorities *would be* - Recovery (3,000) -> ArPen (Don't know yet) -> Power (as much as possible) -> Crit (I happen to have 20% no matter how I flip my gear around, 25% rogue buffed) -> defense -> deflect. It is worth noting that I'm not hitting that recovery benchmark in my Stalwart gear because I'm using 5x Tenebrous enchants.
TLDR: Rokuthy is a bro.
Recovery is not only mathematically better, but it's deceptively strong: constant Villain's Menace uptime shouldn't be ignored.
On Trample: I've been using it because I don't really have survability problems. Keep in mind: Isn't Arcane Singularity a control power? A lot of our damage comes from Villain's -> Taunt -> fronstslide -> cleave spam on black hole.
Battle Trample seems like it'd be good to clear out trash (because Trash is what's getting CC'd) however it'd serve really no other function. It's a kind of "Kill more quicker" ability against trash because bosses can't be CC'd. Against Trash you would deal more damage which should be constantly getting CC'd. If the things are constantly getting CC'd then our damage doesn't really matter since they will die fully controlled.
Like most of our passives it's not entirely worthless, but not entirely great either.
Battle Trample seems like it'd be good to clear out trash (because Trash is what's getting CC'd) however it'd serve really no other function. It's a kind of "Kill more quicker" ability against trash because bosses can't be CC'd. Against Trash you would deal more damage which should be constantly getting CC'd. If the things are constantly getting CC'd then our damage doesn't really matter since they will die fully controlled.
Like most of our passives it's not entirely worthless, but not entirely great either.
You know, you can change passives/encounters on boss fights. Killing trash quicker can save you in boss fights, just sayin. Lastly, if you don't care about killing quickly then don't take a rogue in your parties . I still think Menacing Impact > all, specially with 3k recovery. Trample should still be used. Ferocious isn't really needed.
Hi rokuthy, great guide! Can you explain why the cat is better than the stone pet? I saw you listed a lot of the pros of cat but from my understanding the stonedude does the same stuff but has a better itemslot. So what makes the cat a better choice?
Edit: ok someone had the same question in mind while i was typing >_>
Ioun stone gives power/recovery/critical, not defense.
And I guess it's because the cat has higher critical and recovery, and since the power bonus of the Ioun isn't doubled as our own power it matters less. On the other hand, the Ioun can be equipped with an icon, which means it can have an endgame icon with high power/crit/recovery and offensive socket, whereas the cat gets a waist slot, but so far all the endgame waists I have seen have a fixed +Hp bonus (which doesn't transfer to you) and defensive slot.
Cat is better because we lack recovery and crit from gear, not power. On top of that, there's no icon better than the 133 ArP 133 Crit 110 Recovery belt you can get for the cat. Ioun is for people who have hit 3k recovery and 2k crit from gear.
You know, you can change passives/encounters on boss fights. Killing trash quicker can save you in boss fights, just sayin. Lastly, if you don't care about killing quickly then don't take a rogue in your parties . I still think Menacing Impact > all, specially with 3k recovery. Trample should still be used. Ferocious isn't really needed.
None of them are "really needed" that's kinda the point I was making.
Just did a test and this is not true, power does get transfered but you dont get the x2 from the last feat of conqueror.. that's probably why cat>ioun (and the fact that we already get tons of power from our sets). The difference is not THAT big anyway, im happy with my ioun atm
i would ask you guys if there is any list of GF tiers, along with the stats they give (like this one for TR)
Just did a test and this is not true, power does get transfered but you dont get the x2 from the last feat of conqueror.. that's probably why cat>ioun (and the fact that we already get tons of power from our sets). The difference is not THAT big anyway, im happy with my ioun atm
i would ask you guys if there is any list of GF tiers, along with the stats they give (like this one for TR)
Google didnt help me :<
No, power doesn't transfer over.
Have your cat/stone out with power slotted. Look at your attack/healing stat. Then dismiss the cat/stone and the attack/healing remains the same.
No, power doesn't transfer over.
Have your cat/stone out with power slotted. Look at your attack/healing stat. Then dismiss the cat/stone and the attack/healing remains the same.
I think that "attack/healing" value is as buggy as GS itself.. you say power does not transfer cause that value doesnt go up right? then try to look at the damage of your spells when you dismiss your cat/stone..look at your encounters instead, how come my lounging strike from 2844-3265 dmg goes up to 2900-3321. My stone is giving me 380 crit 380 power 876 recovery and 50 arp , but i dont think the arp is going to change that value, or is it? If it isnt going to boost that value then it must be the power.. or i am missing something as usual :V
edit: i did another try, removing the ring that gives arp and the damage from lounging still increases.. so the power must be transfering
edit2: i am spending my night on phosothop to make something resembling that "rogue tiers" pic, i'll probably ask some screens out of you guys later (or tomorrow @_@), if you're willing to help me i'd apreciate that :V
I think that "attack/healing" value is as buggy as GS itself.. you say power does not transfer cause that value doesnt go up right? then try to look at the damage of your spells when you dismiss your cat/stone..look at your encounters instead, how come my lounging strike from 2844-3265 dmg goes up to 2900-3321. My stone is giving me 380 crit 380 power 876 recovery and 50 arp , but i dont think the arp is going to change that value, or is it? If it isnt going to boost that value then it must be the power.. or i am missing something as usual :V
The values on encounters also go up if you equip the CN sword over the scimitar even though it gives less power/damage. A lot of the visuals of the character sheet are buggy to be honest.
Well i dont know.. i did another try: i've put a ring that gives 150 power (so almost the same as the cat since with the feat it gives 300) in my pack and the damage goes down just by the same amount.. might be a visual sheet bug you're right but it really seems like the power is passing over.. it might also be that the value of attack/healing considers ONLY the gear you're wearing (just like the last feat afterall, you get 100% power only from those items you're wearing).
Comments
I see that you are trying out "Battle Trample", what is the response so far? And how does it work anyway?
Thank you.
I'm curious about this, too. I was just this evening pondering going with Trample the Fallen as a class power and taking the Battle Trample feat. What I don't know for sure is what constitutes a "foe affected by a control power". If our taunts count as a control power, then Trample the Fallen would nearly always be in effect, adding 15% to our damage. That's... huge. Throw the Battle Trample Feat on top of that, and we generate even more threat and add 25% weapon damage. That's rather compelling.
Thank you, Rokuthy, for the fantastic guide, and to the posters in this thread for a lively and engaging discussion. This must be the single finest thread in the Neverwinter forums.
Just seeking clarification on aspects of Enforced Threat and Frontline Surge.
I know that Enforced Threat is capped at 5 targets taunted. Now, is the aoe damage also limited to just those 5 targets as well? Or is it every mob within the aoe 30' range?
I am wondering the same for Frontline Surge. I know it knocks down 3 targets max, but does it damage any other mob in the 10' cylinder?
Reason is I'm looking at the synergy with Into the Fray and Wrathful Warrior as a replacement for one the above.
I am fairly certain Enforced Threat damages any enemy in the area but only targets 5. I've used it everytime a CW uses Arcane Singularity (groups all enemies into a floating orb) and see more than 5 damage numbers and then if my daily Villain's Menace is up I'll use that and Cleave on through and spam single target encounter spells, not Frontline Surge as I want the mobs to stay in one spot. I based my build on a lot of the content from Envy's and Rokuthy's threads and find myself at the top of the damage charts, or 2nd, in almost every instance I run.
Rokuthy,
Thanks for the informative collaboration and being open minded by respec so often. I really like the sound of the Stalwart set. I'm fairly new to 60 and run PvP gear for Power and Power/Crit/Recovery (control and revolt) where I can.
I'm curious did you actually grind those 4 dungeons to get your set. I have the bracers and have grinded Cragmire about 15 times and keep getting Valiant Warrior and Knight Captain. I saw the prices on the AH, ridiculous I have 400k AD and don't really want to spend it all on one item, I'm on Mindflayer as well. I sent you a friend request but I doubt it will be accepted. The popularity you are getting from this guide is good reason not to. I'm just curious and the set I respec'd to something very close to your Hybrid but I think there is something to Armor Penetration from the PvE aspect. Have you had any respecs with Armor Penetration in mind?
I apologize if this brought up in this thread before, I just couldn't bare to read all 27 pages.
Which is why I don't come out and say "no matter what, power is better than crit." I simply point to my source (a spreadsheet), and then give the results based on math. How that math applies to actual in game scenarios will always be up for debate. Math can show that recovery is our strongest stat all day long (which it does), but when you actually apply the use of recovery in game, it may not feel as strong as the math says it should be. The same can be said for any stat, which is why I don't sit here and tell everyone the 'one and true' way to gear their character.
So yeah, I'm very open minded. I've been told by several people that they want to try Trample, or ask if I've tried it, etc. So instead of just saying it's terrible and writing people off, I'm giving it a shot to give everyone my experience with it. And after testing it today, I can say I do like it, but I'm not sure how much yet and I'm not ready to share the results quite yet. Need a little more time.
Another thing I've been testing out lately is the use of ArPen (which you just asked me). After seeing a formula for it (thanks again Sanctumz), it appears that ArPen is potentially our 2nd strongest stat after recovery. So I've been running around with 1,000 ArPen and Trample the Fallen, completely different than my typical setups and builds just to see how things work. Like I said, I enjoy it and I hate writing things off as being bad having never actually tried it. And so far, ArPen seems to be amazing not only on paper, but in game as well.
So right now my stat priorities *would be* - Recovery (3,000) -> ArPen (Don't know yet) -> Power (as much as possible) -> Crit (I happen to have 20% no matter how I flip my gear around, 25% rogue buffed) -> defense -> deflect. It is worth noting that I'm not hitting that recovery benchmark in my Stalwart gear because I'm using 5x Tenebrous enchants.
Thousand appreciated your effort for GF community
I will just added Battle Trample for testing too.
And I love your thread very much which save a lot of our effort.
Thank you!!!!
18/18 is fine
TLDR: Rokuthy is a bro.
Recovery is not only mathematically better, but it's deceptively strong: constant Villain's Menace uptime shouldn't be ignored.
On Trample: I've been using it because I don't really have survability problems. Keep in mind: Isn't Arcane Singularity a control power? A lot of our damage comes from Villain's -> Taunt -> fronstslide -> cleave spam on black hole.
Like most of our passives it's not entirely worthless, but not entirely great either.
You know, you can change passives/encounters on boss fights. Killing trash quicker can save you in boss fights, just sayin. Lastly, if you don't care about killing quickly then don't take a rogue in your parties
To answer this: Timeless might be better by VERY little or equal to Scimitar > Ancient
So Ancient is worse than scimitar and timeless and timeless is slightly better than scimitar?
it depends on your ArP/Crit/Recovery values, but it's close, timeless most likely wins.
cat for crit/revovery
or
Ion stone for Power/recovey/defense ?
Edit: ok someone had the same question in mind while i was typing >_>
Power doesnt transfer over currently.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
And I guess it's because the cat has higher critical and recovery, and since the power bonus of the Ioun isn't doubled as our own power it matters less. On the other hand, the Ioun can be equipped with an icon, which means it can have an endgame icon with high power/crit/recovery and offensive socket, whereas the cat gets a waist slot, but so far all the endgame waists I have seen have a fixed +Hp bonus (which doesn't transfer to you) and defensive slot.
None of them are "really needed" that's kinda the point I was making.
Just did a test and this is not true, power does get transfered but you dont get the x2 from the last feat of conqueror.. that's probably why cat>ioun (and the fact that we already get tons of power from our sets). The difference is not THAT big anyway, im happy with my ioun atm
i would ask you guys if there is any list of GF tiers, along with the stats they give (like this one for TR)
Google didnt help me :<
No, power doesn't transfer over.
Have your cat/stone out with power slotted. Look at your attack/healing stat. Then dismiss the cat/stone and the attack/healing remains the same.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
I think that "attack/healing" value is as buggy as GS itself.. you say power does not transfer cause that value doesnt go up right? then try to look at the damage of your spells when you dismiss your cat/stone..look at your encounters instead, how come my lounging strike from 2844-3265 dmg goes up to 2900-3321. My stone is giving me 380 crit 380 power 876 recovery and 50 arp , but i dont think the arp is going to change that value, or is it? If it isnt going to boost that value then it must be the power.. or i am missing something as usual :V
edit: i did another try, removing the ring that gives arp and the damage from lounging still increases.. so the power must be transfering
edit2: i am spending my night on phosothop to make something resembling that "rogue tiers" pic, i'll probably ask some screens out of you guys later (or tomorrow @_@), if you're willing to help me i'd apreciate that :V
The values on encounters also go up if you equip the CN sword over the scimitar even though it gives less power/damage. A lot of the visuals of the character sheet are buggy to be honest.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
We should ask a GM or something lol