Yeah, you're thinking about it too much. A few strength isn't going to end your hopes of doing DPS, hehe. It's ok man. Grand Regent doesn't seem worth it to me right now, I almost have it completed, just need the gloves and then I'll check it out. If you want a T2 set, the Timeless is pretty sweet. I'll give me full thoughts on Regent once I have the 4th piece. It won't be a DPS king or anything but could be viable in the future if they make any changes to threat/meta game.
haha thanks man, I'll wait for your gloves then, where can i get it btw? i dont have that one as well -_-
ya true, maybe i am thinking about it too much, I still want to focus on pve, but this build inspired me to respec my feats so I can also do damage which helps my threat generation and relative party usefulness
I read in the patch notes that Guardian dmg was nerfed I assume it was Valiant set, while Stalwart is still unchanged? On another related note I just bought the helm for 70k Lucky me.
I read in the patch notes that Guardian dmg was nerfed I assume it was Valiant set, while Stalwart is still unchanged? On another related note I just bought the helm for 70k Lucky me.
Since my damage run shots were outdated, I posted a new one from the last run I just did. Just keep in mind, any damage you do in an instance is completely dependent upon the rest of your party and a plethora of other factors. It really means nothing, but it does give a good representation of the potential that a properly played GF has while in a typical group. This group setup was DC/DC/CW/TR/GF.
Currently my stats are around:
4200 unbuffed power, 12.5k with Stalwart stack
1655 unbuffed crit, 20% even (25% with rogue)
800 armor pen
2300 recovery (700 lower than I'd like)
5x tenebrous enchants (this is why my current recovery levels are so low)
3800 defense with 1400 deflect, 31.5k HP
I'll use the Timeless set in my next run of the same instance (with the same group) just to compare, but again, it won't be an accurate representation of anything, just a general reference point.
Idk how I feel about armor pen on a spec dedicated to AoE. Mobs who you attack get affected by -100% defense or more because of party members + you. This severely diminishes the effect of ArP.
what the best way to make AD?from pvp im doing like 45k every 5-10runs so not much,in dungeon so far i havent done much,only low epic one like clock tower and never got anything worth something so far...im currently using spider helm/icefall glove/greywolf chest/pvp boot/brutal lizard scismitar/crusher sheild and my accessory is junk green.im not sure i can run big dungeon to get T2 or thing like that....
i need to buy my cat for 980k,probably a respect for like 200-250k....and a T2 set that cost few million AD......how.
p.s:im currently using supjer build (more for pvp) but overall its almost the same exept your T2 choice so....if i respect i might go with ur build,not sure yet,also not sure if i go timeless or stalwart.if both have similar dps i might go timeless since i love crit and in pvp its better for burst dmg.i will wait to see the result of your test and it would be helpfull to get your opinion about that.thx
Idk how I feel about armor pen on a spec dedicated to AoE. Mobs who you attack get affected by -100% defense or more because of party members + you. This severely diminishes the effect of ArP.
I am not sure about this, but I think that armor penetration still applies as a damage multiplier even on targets with 0 defense?
Also rokuthy, I was wondering, how many HPs do you have now with dps jewels? With 4 radiant 5 I only got 30k now, with the 22/24/14 stats.
I'm a pretty big PUG player and I have to say now that I'm starting to transition towards T2's now that I'm all done farming T1's it's getting pretty disheartening. Without some organized/set team seems very hard to find a PUG. Even queueing in for random PUG queues I've been kicked a few times without them ever even seeing me perform. The one T2 Spellplague I got into (in place of a GWF in a 2x Cleric, 1 CW, 1 TR team) I was 2nd damage and not far behind the rogue but that doesn't seem to really matter at this time PUG wise.
Think I might go play my CW for a while until they nerf the double shield dealio and then maybe I can actually get into solid PUGs again.
Dunno what Im doing wrong, but I can never beat a rogue in overall damage during my dungeon runs. I can maybe sometimes outperform/match them prior to the bosses, but never on the bosses themselves as there doesnt seem to be a way for me to output more single-target damage. Even if I ignore the boss and concentrate on adds Im still far behind in damage output. On top of that while I do always try to position myself for effective cleaves, most of the time I cant hit all that many targets at once except when a wizard uses his black hole.
I've tried running with 3 single-target damage encounters, like Anvil-lunging strike-Knee breaker as is often suggested. Doesnt improve my damage by a lot but makes my character less functional as I lose my mass knockback/mass aggro skills which are important to control adds.
I'm running 22% self crit with 5k power and 1.5k recovery, so not the best stats, but adequate enough for T1, and I do have a cat. What's my problem?
Would you mind explaining me or adding a section to your guide on how to tank? I dont really have much experience with tanking and obviously I am not doing it right. Are the tacts different from T2 and normal dungeons? What abilities do you have equipped?
Hope you would give me some feedback and help me out
I'm a pretty big PUG player and I have to say now that I'm starting to transition towards T2's now that I'm all done farming T1's it's getting pretty disheartening. Without some organized/set team seems very hard to find a PUG. Even queueing in for random PUG queues I've been kicked a few times without them ever even seeing me perform. The one T2 Spellplague I got into (in place of a GWF in a 2x Cleric, 1 CW, 1 TR team) I was 2nd damage and not far behind the rogue but that doesn't seem to really matter at this time PUG wise.
Think I might go play my CW for a while until they nerf the double shield dealio and then maybe I can actually get into solid PUGs again.
Once you get geared up you will outdps even the most geared rogues by 5M+ in spellplague.
Once you get geared up you will outdps even the most geared rogues by 5M+ in spellplague.
I am geared up short of my jewelry (which comes out of T2) and shirt/pants (still working on crafting these). Armor/Weapon/etc are all T1 and my Ioun stone is geared out the same. I got around 4500 Power (without Stalwart Bulwark), 15% chance to crit, 45% dmg reduction, 23% deflection and around 29k HP. I'm using my abilities on cool down (when appropriate, I won't use Villain's Menace for 1 minion mob when there's a huge pack around the corner) and I find on average I'm usually just slightly behind the rogue and the boss battles where there's one big target to focus is where they really pull ahead. Prior to that point it's either neck and neck or me leading. Only if they are geared better (such as full T2) and are very good/experienced.
Really the problem I don't think here is performance. I mean if we were doing less than the CW or not keeping up at all with the Rogue I could see it being an issue but we're easily able to do that. The REAL issue is getting in the group at all in the first place, and after sitting around 30 minutes during Dungeon Delves last night TWICE before just giving up and auto queuing into Idris that's the part that's gotten pretty depressing.
i would love to know how exactly you tank in the dungeons. i can't hold any aggro at all when i do, one heal will take it all off me straight away. i really don't see the point in the guardian fighter unless he is fully kitted with gear to even stand a chance of "tanking" and all i seem to be reading is people getting dps. is this tank not even a tank. the only fight i have even managed to hold an add is lair of the mad dragon because i'm the only one hitting the dragon. would really like some info on tanking because it seems the tank is the most useless class to actually tank atm, everyone else seems to do it better and survive easier.
I noticed that the screenshot of your feats does not match the list you provide. What would you recommend people follow?
Thanks again!
Bale
The screenshot will always reflect what I'm currently testing (I respec every other day), while the guide list will reflect the last build that I felt was the 'best.' But each person should be able to find small, subtle differences to incorporate into their own builds in order to better fit their personal playstyle. The guide I've written is just a basic outline; within it lies plenty of room for personal modification.
i would love to know how exactly you tank in the dungeons. i can't hold any aggro at all when i do, one heal will take it all off me straight away. i really don't see the point in the guardian fighter unless he is fully kitted with gear to even stand a chance of "tanking" and all i seem to be reading is people getting dps. is this tank not even a tank. the only fight i have even managed to hold an add is lair of the mad dragon because i'm the only one hitting the dragon. would really like some info on tanking because it seems the tank is the most useless class to actually tank atm, everyone else seems to do it better and survive easier.
Aggro is quite literally held through massive damage and constant action. You have to be on top of your game, anticipating add spawns (if you can time your enforcing threat for when you know adds will spawn (bosses typically have a pretty set pattern) then you'll find that with a nice aggro lead it's hard to lose aggro.) Another thing to keep in mind, is the more adds there are, the harder of a time you're going to have holding aggro. That seems obvious, but the reason is because our frontline surge is capped at 3 mobs, and enforced threat is capped at 5 mobs. If you start letting mobs build up beyond those limits, then you're going to run into issues where you just aren't putting any threat/damage into mobs and you'll never get aggro back. The best way to combat that issue obviously is to kill the mobs before they build up. Which goes back to my first point: massive damage and cleaves. You need good synergy with your control wizard - when they gather the mobs, this is the time for you to really put out cleave damage, hit clumps with enforced threat, etc.
cheers for the reply mate. yeah i have been trying to deal out as much damage when stuff is being black holed and such didn't know about the cap on those moves good to know. i'm just trying to get the set you have said in your build but seems to be all rogue oriented drops atm ><. i realise it isn't like any other tanking and think i'm trying to do the harder stuff while trying to tank like i did in wow
cheers for the reply mate. yeah i have been trying to deal out as much damage when stuff is being black holed and such didn't know about the cap on those moves good to know. i'm just trying to get the set you have said in your build but seems to be all rogue oriented drops atm ><. i realise it isn't like any other tanking and think i'm trying to do the harder stuff while trying to tank like i did in wow
In the current state of the game, you just have to tank through damage - both dealing it and taking it. People are arguing for more threat, etc. I'm telling you, with the way the class is built right now, if our Enforced Threat hit an unlimited number of mobs and threat was actually tweaked to the point that we could hold aggro the way everyone "thinks" they want to hold aggro, we'd be in a pretty bad place. We'd die every 3 seconds. So unless they completely rework the way we mitigate damage, then we actually don't want too much increased threat. So instead, it's best to just kill mobs asap and don't let them pile up. Tank by damage.
I am geared up short of my jewelry (which comes out of T2) and shirt/pants (still working on crafting these). Armor/Weapon/etc are all T1 and my Ioun stone is geared out the same. I got around 4500 Power (without Stalwart Bulwark), 15% chance to crit, 45% dmg reduction, 23% deflection and around 29k HP. I'm using my abilities on cool down (when appropriate, I won't use Villain's Menace for 1 minion mob when there's a huge pack around the corner) and I find on average I'm usually just slightly behind the rogue and the boss battles where there's one big target to focus is where they really pull ahead. Prior to that point it's either neck and neck or me leading. Only if they are geared better (such as full T2) and are very good/experienced.
Really the problem I don't think here is performance. I mean if we were doing less than the CW or not keeping up at all with the Rogue I could see it being an issue but we're easily able to do that. The REAL issue is getting in the group at all in the first place, and after sitting around 30 minutes during Dungeon Delves last night TWICE before just giving up and auto queuing into Idris that's the part that's gotten pretty depressing.
I see what you're saying. Luckily people have witnessed my dps and I can get into parties pretty easily now. Try to get a stable group of people to play with.
The equation I have for average ability dmg is:
((((Abilitybasemindmg+(MinWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling)+(Abilitybasemaxdmg+(MaxWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling))/2)*(1+(Feats%+(Strength-10)+CA%+ArP%)*,01))
This is later factored in with crit and severity. However, with this equation Power is giving more than ArP even when I make ArP %mitigation=%dmg. Is something wrong?
edit: (1+(Feats%+(Strength-10)+CA%)*,01)*(1+Arp%*.01) is fix
Once you get geared up you will outdps even the most geared rogues by 5M+ in spellplague.
I am... not entirely sure about this. I suppose it varies with the dungeon, and spellplague does have a rather high density of trash... but still, a decent rogue would put out tremendous amount of damage regarless, even with aoe, from what I have seen. I can outdps a "baddie" rogue on every other day, but I find it extremely hard to even be on par with a good one. Perhaps I just suck.
For example, I did a spider temple run earlier, it ended up with the rogue around 17m damage, me second with 12m, then the wizard and gwf with around 9m each. The rogue was on top from start to finish, using aoe abilities on trash and switching to single target ones on bosses. Perhaps there would have been less difference in a dungeon with more "lowly" trash and less big elites, but I still find extremely hard to outdps a good rogue.
0
elanithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
hey there i just wanna ask...if is hard to get the stalwart set....is worthing go fo viliant pieces??? not set that to...just 3 piece...
The only "hard" piece to get is the Helm, but even thats doable if you get a group together and run it regularly to learn the fights. The other 3 pieces are fairly easy, but a bit repetitive if you have bad luck with drops. Depending on server you can even buy 1-2 pieces for cheap.
I am... not entirely sure about this. I suppose it varies with the dungeon, and spellplague does have a rather high density of trash... but still, a decent rogue would put out tremendous amount of damage regarless, even with aoe, from what I have seen. I can outdps a "baddie" rogue on every other day, but I find it extremely hard to even be on par with a good one. Perhaps I just suck.
For example, I did a spider temple run earlier, it ended up with the rogue around 17m damage, me second with 12m, then the wizard and gwf with around 9m each. The rogue was on top from start to finish, using aoe abilities on trash and switching to single target ones on bosses. Perhaps there would have been less difference in a dungeon with more "lowly" trash and less big elites, but I still find extremely hard to outdps a good rogue.
I outdps top rogues in server on any dung with AoE.
0
ruingaurMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree, helm is pretty hard to get. I have tried for the last few days. I feel I will eventually get it. Just have to get a good group like others said. Though I hope someone on the server decides to sale them :P Most groups do okay until about the 30% mark and then stuff tends to go sour for me.
I've been during Mad Dragon during my delves lately to try and hook some people up and it's not happening so far! Probably 20ish kills over the last couple days and no helm yet.
Comments
haha thanks man, I'll wait for your gloves then, where can i get it btw? i dont have that one as well -_-
ya true, maybe i am thinking about it too much, I still want to focus on pve, but this build inspired me to respec my feats so I can also do damage which helps my threat generation and relative party usefulness
Include Ability Score Rolling When Respec-ing (Click and Comment to Show Support)
No team here on Dragon I go with can even beat it. Hell I had to do the dungeon as a level 60 and still couldn't do it.
I hate you so much lol. Nice catch though.
Since my damage run shots were outdated, I posted a new one from the last run I just did. Just keep in mind, any damage you do in an instance is completely dependent upon the rest of your party and a plethora of other factors. It really means nothing, but it does give a good representation of the potential that a properly played GF has while in a typical group. This group setup was DC/DC/CW/TR/GF.
Currently my stats are around:
4200 unbuffed power, 12.5k with Stalwart stack
1655 unbuffed crit, 20% even (25% with rogue)
800 armor pen
2300 recovery (700 lower than I'd like)
5x tenebrous enchants (this is why my current recovery levels are so low)
3800 defense with 1400 deflect, 31.5k HP
I'll use the Timeless set in my next run of the same instance (with the same group) just to compare, but again, it won't be an accurate representation of anything, just a general reference point.
i need to buy my cat for 980k,probably a respect for like 200-250k....and a T2 set that cost few million AD......how.
p.s:im currently using supjer build (more for pvp) but overall its almost the same exept your T2 choice so....if i respect i might go with ur build,not sure yet,also not sure if i go timeless or stalwart.if both have similar dps i might go timeless since i love crit and in pvp its better for burst dmg.i will wait to see the result of your test and it would be helpfull to get your opinion about that.thx
I am not sure about this, but I think that armor penetration still applies as a damage multiplier even on targets with 0 defense?
Also rokuthy, I was wondering, how many HPs do you have now with dps jewels? With 4 radiant 5 I only got 30k now, with the 22/24/14 stats.
Think I might go play my CW for a while until they nerf the double shield dealio and then maybe I can actually get into solid PUGs again.
I've tried running with 3 single-target damage encounters, like Anvil-lunging strike-Knee breaker as is often suggested. Doesnt improve my damage by a lot but makes my character less functional as I lose my mass knockback/mass aggro skills which are important to control adds.
I'm running 22% self crit with 5k power and 1.5k recovery, so not the best stats, but adequate enough for T1, and I do have a cat. What's my problem?
Hope you would give me some feedback and help me out
I am geared up short of my jewelry (which comes out of T2) and shirt/pants (still working on crafting these). Armor/Weapon/etc are all T1 and my Ioun stone is geared out the same. I got around 4500 Power (without Stalwart Bulwark), 15% chance to crit, 45% dmg reduction, 23% deflection and around 29k HP. I'm using my abilities on cool down (when appropriate, I won't use Villain's Menace for 1 minion mob when there's a huge pack around the corner) and I find on average I'm usually just slightly behind the rogue and the boss battles where there's one big target to focus is where they really pull ahead. Prior to that point it's either neck and neck or me leading. Only if they are geared better (such as full T2) and are very good/experienced.
Really the problem I don't think here is performance. I mean if we were doing less than the CW or not keeping up at all with the Rogue I could see it being an issue but we're easily able to do that. The REAL issue is getting in the group at all in the first place, and after sitting around 30 minutes during Dungeon Delves last night TWICE before just giving up and auto queuing into Idris that's the part that's gotten pretty depressing.
I noticed that the screenshot of your feats does not match the list you provide. What would you recommend people follow?
Thanks again!
Bale
The screenshot will always reflect what I'm currently testing (I respec every other day), while the guide list will reflect the last build that I felt was the 'best.' But each person should be able to find small, subtle differences to incorporate into their own builds in order to better fit their personal playstyle. The guide I've written is just a basic outline; within it lies plenty of room for personal modification.
Aggro is quite literally held through massive damage and constant action. You have to be on top of your game, anticipating add spawns (if you can time your enforcing threat for when you know adds will spawn (bosses typically have a pretty set pattern) then you'll find that with a nice aggro lead it's hard to lose aggro.) Another thing to keep in mind, is the more adds there are, the harder of a time you're going to have holding aggro. That seems obvious, but the reason is because our frontline surge is capped at 3 mobs, and enforced threat is capped at 5 mobs. If you start letting mobs build up beyond those limits, then you're going to run into issues where you just aren't putting any threat/damage into mobs and you'll never get aggro back. The best way to combat that issue obviously is to kill the mobs before they build up. Which goes back to my first point: massive damage and cleaves. You need good synergy with your control wizard - when they gather the mobs, this is the time for you to really put out cleave damage, hit clumps with enforced threat, etc.
Just stay active and don't let adds pile up.
Cleave is the better choice. Even for single targets.
In the current state of the game, you just have to tank through damage - both dealing it and taking it. People are arguing for more threat, etc. I'm telling you, with the way the class is built right now, if our Enforced Threat hit an unlimited number of mobs and threat was actually tweaked to the point that we could hold aggro the way everyone "thinks" they want to hold aggro, we'd be in a pretty bad place. We'd die every 3 seconds. So unless they completely rework the way we mitigate damage, then we actually don't want too much increased threat. So instead, it's best to just kill mobs asap and don't let them pile up. Tank by damage.
((((Abilitybasemindmg+(MinWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling)+(Abilitybasemaxdmg+(MaxWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling))/2)*(1+(Feats%+(Strength-10)+CA%+ArP%)*,01))
This is later factored in with crit and severity. However, with this equation Power is giving more than ArP even when I make ArP %mitigation=%dmg. Is something wrong?
edit: (1+(Feats%+(Strength-10)+CA%)*,01)*(1+Arp%*.01) is fix
I am... not entirely sure about this. I suppose it varies with the dungeon, and spellplague does have a rather high density of trash... but still, a decent rogue would put out tremendous amount of damage regarless, even with aoe, from what I have seen. I can outdps a "baddie" rogue on every other day, but I find it extremely hard to even be on par with a good one. Perhaps I just suck.
For example, I did a spider temple run earlier, it ended up with the rogue around 17m damage, me second with 12m, then the wizard and gwf with around 9m each. The rogue was on top from start to finish, using aoe abilities on trash and switching to single target ones on bosses. Perhaps there would have been less difference in a dungeon with more "lowly" trash and less big elites, but I still find extremely hard to outdps a good rogue.
The only "hard" piece to get is the Helm, but even thats doable if you get a group together and run it regularly to learn the fights. The other 3 pieces are fairly easy, but a bit repetitive if you have bad luck with drops. Depending on server you can even buy 1-2 pieces for cheap.
I outdps top rogues in server on any dung with AoE.