I'm not promoting anything except an end to AFKers. I could care less if we get XP or not in PvP. Some of you are reading into my post a little TOO much and that's alright.
You can't penalize a person for going AFK in all reality since it's that player's decision at home to just up and leave. Sure if you kick em they lose out on XP and glory but either,
A) you're 4 manning it now
or
if you don't kick, then that person's still gonna be AFK so you're still 4 manning it.
Automated kick won't work either since all they have to do to prevent it is wiggle the mouse.
So all you can do as a dev is make it not worth it.
Tying XP to point gain would not be worth it because they'd actually have to up and participate. Everyone wins there. Those of you who enjoy leveling through pvp still can.
I'm glad you are thinking and passionate about the afk problem- I hate them as well.
The issue you highlight above would and should be solved by allowing people to enter part way through the game- I believe the functionality is already there as sometimes I kick people and a new member comes in, or I am teleported into a game that has already started; however, it is either not working consistantly or there is some other problem.
Automated kick cuts down on the problem; then vote to kick or kick by leader helps further. It is unlikely that you can totally eliminate afkers, unless you make pvp utter pointless in relation to the rest of the game-in which case you create a variety of other problems- but there is still a lot that can be done without resorting to penalizing people that actually play pvp.
At the moment I would say there is an afker either on my team or the enemy team in nearly every game I play; I beleive this could be cut down substantially by auto-kick, leader or group vote kick and, very importantly, a reliable requeue function to get active players into the game.
At the moment I would say there is an afker either on my team or the enemy team in nearly every game I play; I beleive this could be cut down substantially by auto-kick, leader or group vote kick and, very importantly, a reliable requeue function to get active players into the game.
Make a premade and have more fun. Right now, even if your randoms don't afk, the other team can be 5 coordinated players. They will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> all over your pugs :P
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
make the XP gain based on final score, the closer it is the more XP rewarded, make XP scale based on round length so a 5min match only grants 10% of a what would be a 20min match.
horrible yes, i also noticed a guy with 5 accounts doing it. that`s at least 150k ad each hour at the moment for doing nothing.
good for the market, not ;p
or they could disconnect you if you stay in the respawn area for too long with a timer or something... afk or not, then again... they could just drop from that and wait somewhere else to be killed... i dont usually enjoy in pvp killing afk players... i got the training dummies for that.
Remove all xp and loot from pvp..Make it for fun only, then only players who are having fun will do it. Seriously, is it required that you get more reward than enjoyment from every single thing you do in game.
remove all xp? dude i enjoy pvp more than i enjoy questing (not saying i dont quest, just doing that less), why should i be forced to quest or do dungeons or something else to level up rather than do what i like? truth is they could reward you for what you actually do in pvp... if you dont DO anything, you dont GET anything... even if i leveled up slower, i'd still do it rather than "go there, kill that, get back here, oh wait, you forgot to kill that other thing, go back" quests.
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dyxiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
On my phone so I'll be quick. They should take a look athow gold wars 2 handles pvp, make a separate xp and leveling system exclusive for ovp and make the open world xp different, then pvpers are happy pveers are happy, also the short in pvp afk timers would be nice!
I also like yhe idea fo checking for afkers before capping pionts so you can farm them to bordem to detract them from afking!
We will be performing server maintenance tomorrow, 05/15/13, at 7 a.m. Pacific. We anticipate that the maintenance will take two hours. Once the maintenance begins, we'll keep you in the loop on progress!
We will be deploying a host of critical updates in this build, including:
-A fix for a bug that allowed Guardian Fighters to inflict significantly more damage than intended under certain circumstances (this is not a balance change - this is related to a very specific circumstance where damage would be calculated incorrectly)
-A change that will prevent certain bosses from being defeated multiple times
-A change that will automatically remove players from PVP matches if they go AFK
For details about any additional changes that will be occurring in the upcoming build, please keep an eye out for the Patch Notes.
Thank you to the players who have reported the above issues and provided us with the details needed to resolve them. Some players have posted feedback that the above issues may have had an effect on the game's economy. This is something that we take very seriously. In addition to the above fixes, we have a team actively working to ensure that these issues are looked into and addressed to the best of our ability. As a reminder, please keep in mind that attempting to exploit the game in any way can lead to actions taken against the account, up to and including permanent account closure.
Thank you for your patience and understanding. We've collected a ton of great feedback during the Neverwinter open beta, and have made several major improvements as a direct result of the many constructive comments we've received. We hope to continue this trend, so please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts with us!
We will be performing server maintenance tomorrow, 05/15/13, at 7 a.m. Pacific. We anticipate that the maintenance will take two hours. Once the maintenance begins, we'll keep you in the loop on progress!
We will be deploying a host of critical updates in this build, including:
-A fix for a bug that allowed Guardian Fighters to inflict significantly more damage than intended under certain circumstances (this is not a balance change - this is related to a very specific circumstance where damage would be calculated incorrectly)
-A change that will prevent certain bosses from being defeated multiple times
-A change that will automatically remove players from PVP matches if they go AFK
For details about any additional changes that will be occurring in the upcoming build, please keep an eye out for the Patch Notes.
Thank you to the players who have reported the above issues and provided us with the details needed to resolve them. Some players have posted feedback that the above issues may have had an effect on the game's economy. This is something that we take very seriously. In addition to the above fixes, we have a team actively working to ensure that these issues are looked into and addressed to the best of our ability. As a reminder, please keep in mind that attempting to exploit the game in any way can lead to actions taken against the account, up to and including permanent account closure.
Thank you for your patience and understanding. We've collected a ton of great feedback during the Neverwinter open beta, and have made several major improvements as a direct result of the many constructive comments we've received. We hope to continue this trend, so please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts with us!
Thank you!
The Neverwinter Team
I wonder if you still won't be able to fill a spot mid match? So if someone afks and gets kicked, it's still a 4v5 the rest of the match and most of your group will probably run around in circles to make sure they at least get losing glory? Cool.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Oh that would be me! (Edit : re casual pvp player)
I did PvP for the first time yesterday - grumpily as I don't really want to but it seems to be something that they want you to do here with the dailies. I didn't kill anything and got the lowest score I didn't realise you couldn't drink health pots in there and there were a stack of times I would go to cast stuff and it didn't work and I don't know why.
I basically ended up just going around annoying the other team laying down hallowed ground. At least if they were trying to kill me that meant I was contributing? Either that or you get extra points for kills and I was an obvious easy target
I am told I need to pvp in order to get stuff for a GS high enough to get into epics - but frankly I'm so bad at this I seriously don't think I should be allowed!
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I skipped essentially every zone after level 35. I went from level 35-60 playing PvP, and while it wasn't exactly a short route, it was still faster than pve. I still play PvP every day, probably 10-50 matches a day depending on what else the guild is doing.
Changes I think would stop AFKers and increase competition in pvp:
1.) Remove XP entirely or implement a mechanic which can detect AFK players.
2.) Reduce Glory per loss by about 40%
3.) Increase glory per win by about 10%
Lol? People would make teams to trade nodes and level even faster. Try again.
Only if a moron designed the system. The maximum gain would be equal to the current gain, all it would mean is that to equal the current returns they would have to "make teams to trade nodes" instead of AFK.
Which means they would have to work for it, at least more than now.
I skipped essentially every zone after level 35. I went from level 35-60 playing PvP, and while it wasn't exactly a short route, it was still faster than pve. I still play PvP every day, probably 10-50 matches a day depending on what else the guild is doing.
Why did you decide to pvp soley from level 35?
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helza123Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
I would imagine it has nothing to do with reporting and everything to do with 4 of them TRYING to play and prolonging the match. If you kick them instead, it guarantees a short match.
This is exactly right. The afkers kick the legitimate players because actually pvp'ing will prolong the game. I hear the arguments that pvp exp is better than quest exp but I disagree that this is the prime motivator for doing this. The real motivation to sit there and hit the keys or design a hack that will is MONEY. They do it for the money. To sell glory and glory items.
Legitimate players are not being allowed to play pvp and this has to stop.
It's a fundamental, basic error when PvP grants xp. Remove that, problem solved (for the most part)
I disagree. PVP with 0 xp means you get players that sit at a level with the best gear for that level. This is minor but the most often bracket for this behavior is the lowest one where the geared to the max stagnant character dominates new players, which discourages them from playing at all. Pvp has to grant a small xp bonus to slowly force these characters to move on.
It solves one problem but creates another. The xp reward needs to be small enough that afk matches are not worth it, and big enough that players cannot sit for decades at level 19 or whatever it is.
I wonder if you still won't be able to fill a spot mid match? So if someone afks and gets kicked, it's still a 4v5 the rest of the match and most of your group will probably run around in circles to make sure they at least get losing glory? Cool.
We may see some of this for a short while but this issue will also be addressed. I would still prefer to suffer this inconvenience than to continue not to be able to play my character of choice or get stuck with an overwhelming wave of afk'ers. Eventually the people who are using this exploit will stop queuing for pvp simply because they can't make money at it.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I actually love pvp gaming, despite arguing to ignore pvp ion this game as a true aspect of the game. My reasoning is that if a game is not built for pvp from the ground up, starting with class design, then you are getting into an ugly cycle that ultimately degrades every aspect of the game.
I want NWO to do well, but I think in order to shine it needs to focus on the pve aspect. Removing all rewards from pvp and having it a for fun only event would be best. This way we can still slug it out, but no one will feel compelled to cheat the system to get ahead.
Player who enjoy pvp combat will come to fight anyway, and probably in more stable and active numbers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I disagree. PVP with 0 xp means you get players that sit at a level with the best gear for that level. This is minor but the most often bracket for this behavior is the lowest one where the geared to the max stagnant character dominates new players, which discourages them from playing at all. Pvp has to grant a small xp bonus to slowly force these characters to move on.
It solves one problem but creates another. The xp reward needs to be small enough that afk matches are not worth it, and big enough that players cannot sit for decades at level 19 or whatever it is.
I am sure a simple math formula could be used to calculate how many games would be logical for one toon to play in a bracket and not be considered "twinking"..So could we not just impose ,say a 200 game limit in lower brackets? (pulled the number out of the air, but you get the point)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I had an other interesting experience, if an AFK player gets teamleader he/she will often KICK EVERYONE in the team. Maybe this is so no one can report them or something I do not know. But kick should be VOTE based. NOT give all power to RANDOM.
One plausable solution would be taht players that dont mvoe for 2-3min get a warning if they dont leave spawn they get kicked or something. and get a debuff so they cant join any more pvp for an houer or something.
Can confirm this, happened to me a few times and also seen it happen on the opposite team. Really, really sad
100% agreed on votekick. Being assigned as team leader based on amount of kills/assists would also be a great system if such a thing is possible - that way, AFKers would NEVER get teamleader and also means the person who does get teamleader knows what he's doing.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Only award xp/glory/daily quest when winning. Solved.
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prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
reduce xp gain from losses by 2/3rds. increase win xp by 20%. So, a win will grant you 120% of the current gains... a loss will give you 33%. In my opinion, successful play should yield much greater results than AFKing.
Honestly my opinion for a fix for this is make rewards performance based, so it also stops people from quitting if they get beat up a few times, i mean seriously its pvp if you aren't gonna do it you don't deserve the reward. In other words for example if your team gets 0 points your reward is only 20% it would be if lets say your team played and got 600 points giving you maybe 100% at that point. Making you have to work for your full reward even if you're gonna lose you don't give up since the more points you score the more xp/glory you'll get.
Also add a 1min timer for afk auto boot, while at the same time giving a 10 min pvp queue lock out and a 1 hour long -50% glory gain, since some people would obviously use it to leave a losing game early if theres only a short lock out period.
I'll say it again its pvp if you are gonna join a match and not participate in it then there should be consequences, even if you are losing, its called sportsmanship to play your hardest till the bell. You don't see your favorite sports team in any sport just walk off the field because they don't feel they're gonna win, its just a bad mentality to have in general to give up the moment you see the chance you won't succeed.
With that said, if anyone suggests a surrender feature i'd only favor it if it had draw backs enough to make it only really viable in a no hope scenario like you're actually fighting and can't manage a single point, in other words maybe having it at surrender only netting 30% rewards or whatever your current teams score reward which ever is lower. So you'll be encouraged to play if you already netted 40% since it'll drag your xp/glory down while giving you a chance to end it if there is truly if no hope with at least a 4/5 votes.
Since without a draw back you'll have these afk teams become surrender teams for full rewards making their process faster, probably need a time requirement also so its not just 1-2 fights surrender we can't win, need at least for example 5-7mins of play before it opens up.
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prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
the change I would most like to see in pvp... these domination games should last like 2/3rds as long as they currently do... it doesn't take a full 1000 points for a game to be decided. only 1 out of 50 games will come down to the wire... The vast majority of games I've played have been majorly 1-sided, and had been decided in the first 100 points... so the result is a painful experience for both winners and losers for 900 points.. Can we play to 700 instead of 1000? At least in the -60 brackets?
Comments
I'm glad you are thinking and passionate about the afk problem- I hate them as well.
The issue you highlight above would and should be solved by allowing people to enter part way through the game- I believe the functionality is already there as sometimes I kick people and a new member comes in, or I am teleported into a game that has already started; however, it is either not working consistantly or there is some other problem.
Automated kick cuts down on the problem; then vote to kick or kick by leader helps further. It is unlikely that you can totally eliminate afkers, unless you make pvp utter pointless in relation to the rest of the game-in which case you create a variety of other problems- but there is still a lot that can be done without resorting to penalizing people that actually play pvp.
At the moment I would say there is an afker either on my team or the enemy team in nearly every game I play; I beleive this could be cut down substantially by auto-kick, leader or group vote kick and, very importantly, a reliable requeue function to get active players into the game.
Make a premade and have more fun. Right now, even if your randoms don't afk, the other team can be 5 coordinated players. They will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> all over your pugs :P
good for the market, not ;p
I also like yhe idea fo checking for afkers before capping pionts so you can farm them to bordem to detract them from afking!
So if it's a close match say 100% vs 90% they would get similar xp/glory, except maybe the winning team would get like an extra 20% or w/e on top.
So you'd have to actual play to get something.
Boy that was hard
a weak solution that pisses off half your community.
It encourages people to try, sure. But more often then not it's a de-motivator then a motivator.
Better to alter rewards so that afking just isn't worth it rather than make the venture itself completely worthless.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We will be performing server maintenance tomorrow, 05/15/13, at 7 a.m. Pacific. We anticipate that the maintenance will take two hours. Once the maintenance begins, we'll keep you in the loop on progress!
We will be deploying a host of critical updates in this build, including:
-A fix for a bug that allowed Guardian Fighters to inflict significantly more damage than intended under certain circumstances (this is not a balance change - this is related to a very specific circumstance where damage would be calculated incorrectly)
-A change that will prevent certain bosses from being defeated multiple times
-A change that will automatically remove players from PVP matches if they go AFK
For details about any additional changes that will be occurring in the upcoming build, please keep an eye out for the Patch Notes.
Thank you to the players who have reported the above issues and provided us with the details needed to resolve them. Some players have posted feedback that the above issues may have had an effect on the game's economy. This is something that we take very seriously. In addition to the above fixes, we have a team actively working to ensure that these issues are looked into and addressed to the best of our ability. As a reminder, please keep in mind that attempting to exploit the game in any way can lead to actions taken against the account, up to and including permanent account closure.
Thank you for your patience and understanding. We've collected a ton of great feedback during the Neverwinter open beta, and have made several major improvements as a direct result of the many constructive comments we've received. We hope to continue this trend, so please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts with us!
Thank you!
The Neverwinter Team
I wonder if you still won't be able to fill a spot mid match? So if someone afks and gets kicked, it's still a 4v5 the rest of the match and most of your group will probably run around in circles to make sure they at least get losing glory? Cool.
I did PvP for the first time yesterday - grumpily as I don't really want to but it seems to be something that they want you to do here with the dailies. I didn't kill anything and got the lowest score
I basically ended up just going around annoying the other team laying down hallowed ground. At least if they were trying to kill me that meant I was contributing? Either that or you get extra points for kills and I was an obvious easy target
I am told I need to pvp in order to get stuff for a GS high enough to get into epics - but frankly I'm so bad at this I seriously don't think I should be allowed!
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
Yeah you're right people literally making AFK groups is better
I skipped essentially every zone after level 35. I went from level 35-60 playing PvP, and while it wasn't exactly a short route, it was still faster than pve. I still play PvP every day, probably 10-50 matches a day depending on what else the guild is doing.
Changes I think would stop AFKers and increase competition in pvp:
1.) Remove XP entirely or implement a mechanic which can detect AFK players.
2.) Reduce Glory per loss by about 40%
3.) Increase glory per win by about 10%
Only if a moron designed the system. The maximum gain would be equal to the current gain, all it would mean is that to equal the current returns they would have to "make teams to trade nodes" instead of AFK.
Which means they would have to work for it, at least more than now.
Why did you decide to pvp soley from level 35?
This is exactly right. The afkers kick the legitimate players because actually pvp'ing will prolong the game. I hear the arguments that pvp exp is better than quest exp but I disagree that this is the prime motivator for doing this. The real motivation to sit there and hit the keys or design a hack that will is MONEY. They do it for the money. To sell glory and glory items.
Legitimate players are not being allowed to play pvp and this has to stop.
I disagree. PVP with 0 xp means you get players that sit at a level with the best gear for that level. This is minor but the most often bracket for this behavior is the lowest one where the geared to the max stagnant character dominates new players, which discourages them from playing at all. Pvp has to grant a small xp bonus to slowly force these characters to move on.
It solves one problem but creates another. The xp reward needs to be small enough that afk matches are not worth it, and big enough that players cannot sit for decades at level 19 or whatever it is.
as if anyone who matters, cares
We may see some of this for a short while but this issue will also be addressed. I would still prefer to suffer this inconvenience than to continue not to be able to play my character of choice or get stuck with an overwhelming wave of afk'ers. Eventually the people who are using this exploit will stop queuing for pvp simply because they can't make money at it.
I want NWO to do well, but I think in order to shine it needs to focus on the pve aspect. Removing all rewards from pvp and having it a for fun only event would be best. This way we can still slug it out, but no one will feel compelled to cheat the system to get ahead.
Player who enjoy pvp combat will come to fight anyway, and probably in more stable and active numbers.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I am sure a simple math formula could be used to calculate how many games would be logical for one toon to play in a bracket and not be considered "twinking"..So could we not just impose ,say a 200 game limit in lower brackets? (pulled the number out of the air, but you get the point)
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Can confirm this, happened to me a few times and also seen it happen on the opposite team. Really, really sad
100% agreed on votekick. Being assigned as team leader based on amount of kills/assists would also be a great system if such a thing is possible - that way, AFKers would NEVER get teamleader and also means the person who does get teamleader knows what he's doing.
Also add a 1min timer for afk auto boot, while at the same time giving a 10 min pvp queue lock out and a 1 hour long -50% glory gain, since some people would obviously use it to leave a losing game early if theres only a short lock out period.
I'll say it again its pvp if you are gonna join a match and not participate in it then there should be consequences, even if you are losing, its called sportsmanship to play your hardest till the bell. You don't see your favorite sports team in any sport just walk off the field because they don't feel they're gonna win, its just a bad mentality to have in general to give up the moment you see the chance you won't succeed.
With that said, if anyone suggests a surrender feature i'd only favor it if it had draw backs enough to make it only really viable in a no hope scenario like you're actually fighting and can't manage a single point, in other words maybe having it at surrender only netting 30% rewards or whatever your current teams score reward which ever is lower. So you'll be encouraged to play if you already netted 40% since it'll drag your xp/glory down while giving you a chance to end it if there is truly if no hope with at least a 4/5 votes.
Since without a draw back you'll have these afk teams become surrender teams for full rewards making their process faster, probably need a time requirement also so its not just 1-2 fights surrender we can't win, need at least for example 5-7mins of play before it opens up.