nice game but how PW handle this major bug is not acceptable. it was reported a weak ago ... maybe they still celebrate big party with all the founder pack money.
or: more epics in the auctionhouse = more people who buy zen for AD = more $$$$$$
what's so difficult, to disable a set bonus via hotfix... until it is repaired?
or: more epics in the auctionhouse = more people who buy zen for AD = more $$$$$$
This. Plus they are too busy fixing minor issues like people getting free BoP bags, because that actually takes money from them directly.... Who cares about bagspace when GF's can solo endgame content?
This. Plus they are too busy fixing minor issues like people getting free BoP bags, because that actually takes money from them directly.... Who cares about bagspace when GF's can solo endgame content?
GF's obviously. But don't worry, we will probably get a new 40 USD mount to zen store to compensate the damages caused by exploits and bugs.
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valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
i have not seen a game as easily exploited as this one. And i'm laughing my a,s,s off
0
zerowaitMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
I suggest that anyone who thinks this is going to make anything cost *more* astral diamonds google the word "deflation".
Economics doesn't work this way. When you take cash out of the economy, stuff gets less expensive. Not more. Why? You still have the exact same amount of product, and demand for that product, as you did pre-deflation. Now, however, you've got less currency to give for said products.
Let me explain this a bit more directly. If I've got 10,000 zen to sell, and the economy has 200k astral diamonds with which to buy this, I'll be able to sell said zen for 20AD. Now, if that number is cut in half, and I have only a 100k pool of astral diamonds to buy from, I'm selling my zen for 10AD. The ADs are now worth more. This will, true, effect the static priced things. Unslotting, etc... But it's not like there's a static amount of AD in game being passed around. You're still able to farm for more of em. Only, now, you'll need less of em to buy stuff off auction, or zen.
The only reason deflation is ever bad for an economy, on the whole, is because it makes the actual value of any debt quite a bit higher. If you owe 100 million, you owe 100 million, even if that 100 million buys twice as much as when you accrued the debt. But, for the individual purchaser? It actually tends to be a benefit. Tell me you wouldn't be happy, for example, to get gas for a buck fifty a gallon.
And, yeah, you could argue "they can then dump those ADs into the economy and make it collapse". Well... So can Bill Gates. Every economy is always going to have a super rich percentage. Those people would be foolish to devalue their own money by dumping it all at once. So doomsaying? A bit extreme, guys. A wipe isn't needed, imo. Fix the bug and let it sort itself out. But fix it NOW.
The irony is this might actually do a good bit to fix player complaints about how expensive everything is.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
The irony is this might actually do a good bit to fix player complaints about how expensive everything is.
Except it won't. Sure, T1/2 rares will become cheap. But everything worth buying will go up. Why? Because the people who need it now have 100mil+ AD. They can afford to spend 500k on a Coalescent Ward, but no one else can. The AH will completely cater to the super rich.
Except it won't. Sure, T1/2 rares will become cheap. But everything worth buying will go up. Why? Because the people who need it now have 100mil+ AD. They can afford to spend 500k on a Coalescent Ward, but no one else can. The AH will completely cater to the super rich.
Items are already super inflated in the AH. Also, there's a limit to how much AD a person can farm in a day, especially due to the daily refine limit, so you have a controlled inflation built in.
No wipe is necessary. You can't just decide to wipe the game due to a small minority that exploited and the vast majority played legitimately. Any wipe would lead to a mass exodus of people from this game.
Ok lets try this cycle and demonstrate what would happen if Cryptic did what you're all calling for right now.
Ban all exploiters.
Exploiters create new accounts and carry on as is.
Server Rollback
Legitimate players quit, PWE loses money in refunds, Bad press gets even worse, Exploiters level and carry on as they are.
My personal suggestion - Do nothing until exploits are fixed and then ban accounts and remove their lots from the AH.
Economy tanks for a while then recovers when legitimate items and AD start to enter the market.
Oh look, it's in Cryptic and PWE's best interests to actually fix the exploits before doing anything, seriously guys, you don't create an ingame economy in 2 weeks.
Probably is from a PvE standpoint once you obtain all your gear and everyone else in your guild has then boredom starts to set in. The game has been out long enough to expect new content.
You expect new content 2 weeks into a soft launch. (Yes I'm aware that PWE says it's an official launch but who do you believe, the guys who want to make money saying it's launched or the people working on the actual code?) But you need to get your head screwed on if you think they'll release content this fast.
Ok lets try this cycle and demonstrate what would happen if Cryptic did what you're all calling for right now.
Ban all exploiters.
Exploiters create new accounts and carry on as is.
Server Rollback
Legitimate players quit, PWE loses money in refunds, Bad press gets even worse, Exploiters level and carry on as they are.
My personal suggestion - Do nothing until exploits are fixed and then ban accounts and remove their lots from the AH.
Economy tanks for a while then recovers when legitimate items and AD start to enter the market.
Oh look, it's in Cryptic and PWE's best interests to actually fix the exploits before doing anything, seriously guys, you don't create an ingame economy in 2 weeks.
You expect new content 2 weeks into a soft launch. (Yes I'm aware that PWE says it's an official launch but who do you believe, the guys who want to make money saying it's launched or the people working on the actual code?) But you need to get your head screwed on if you think they'll release content this fast.
Well if they banned them first, it would still slow them down wouldn't it?
We need more things like this. So people will stop wasting time with any PWE product. Maybe they'll learn to quit making cash grab games. PS: PWE will not do anything bout this. Mayb, ban the character, thats about it. Enjoy your economy, oh and don't forget you can just grind AD to get cash chop items. Should only take a year to get that bag you want lol.
As much as I enjoy the game, you're right. Its difficult to say which of the two companies contribute more to the greed. PWE with the lockboxes for sure, but Cryptic was also one of the first companies to have the audacity to include a cash shop on top of a subscription. I also believe that PWE refuses to allow their developers to communicate with the players. I know Nexon doesn't. Which frustrates the devs who would love to fix problems but their managers and higher ups won't allow them to.
Marvel Heroes comes out in two weeks. This game is fun, but I don't expect it to have lasting appeal. I wish it would, but the cash grabs are probably going to drive me away, and PWE doesn't care. Especially when Wildstar drops this fourth quarter.
I'll stick with it. I'm just saying there are alternatives for me.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
A lot of you here havent learned your lesson playing Cryptic games....on Champions Online, an Infinite Money exploit destroyed that games economy, 3 years after and the economy is still monopolized and broken. After tens of thousands of complaints did they fix it? Did they ###k, they ignored the community and ran away from the game like cowards.
Some of you here who came from Champions Online.....didnt you learn your lesson the first time? They cant do math, they never listen (no matter how many people on test server reported and screamed that a game-destroying bug is about to go live...they ignore it and put it live anyway), they dont fix game breaking bugs (theres God-Mode exploits still on CO even now)
Seriously...theyre useless...what even made you think for a second that they have changed.
Give it some time, and after Cryptic have taken your money, they will abandon this game too.
0
necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why would they lose money on refund? If someone bought zen and spent them on mounts or whatever, he'd get his zen back if there was a rollback/wipe.
dude, I cannot stay interested in games that may as well be single player by expecting me to run around alone killing a few things at a time and spending half of my time running back and forth looting this or that and running back to hand it in. I'm forcing it on my main already, I plan to force myself through 2 or 3 other characters to 60 with pvp in between in the higher levels in each bracket to avoid the fetch questing when I have the egar and skill points caught up to the higher levels ine ach bracket. Once I've raised my toons to 60, or even finish this first one, if they wipe it, there is no way in hell I'm taking zen back for it because I would never spend it as I will not do all of those boring fetch quests again. ******bags unfortunately got them to make the foudnry useless, and I'm a grinder, a REAL grinder, as in set up at a camp with a good respawn/kill/pull rythm and killt hings ot level up. even though the fetch bs can be done in days to 60, I have to force myself to do it continuously and would rather spend a couple or few weeks grinding most of my way, I spent 3 years on my first mmorpg doing that and didn't even finish the free month or first paid month of every other mmorpg I have ever played that is full of solo fetch quest to level cap lameness. If they do full wipes, or xp resets, I'd rather have my money refunded not the zen so I could blow it someplace else until i get tired of that too. don't pray for punishments ofr people that didn't foundry themselves to 60, or didn't ogre foundry especially, it's sad that legitimate grind potential was killed by this ogre HAMSTER. and bundle and kill cw HAMSTER, and push off ledges HAMSTER. pretty soon, pvp won't even give xp any more, and our only option will be running all over hell and creation for one or 2 little things at a gd time running these lame *** solo fetch quests that every modern mmorpg is full of thanks to you blizzard and your HAMSTER subscribers. my god at least make 2 new zones for each level range if you're going to wipe, so it isn't the same scenery running through hell and creation for somebody's hand basket that 2 or 3 bandits took or something.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
i'm more depressed that the gaming press- which usually jumps all over a game when HAMSTER like this happens - has largely ignored neverwinter entirely.
the game is popular. it has a lot of streamers. yet very little press.
Players proving, once again, that the players are the REAL reason for failed after failed MMO launch...I feel really bad for all of the developers that spend so much time making otherwise good games...
This, exactly.
... although I wouldn't rush calling NWN "failed".
i know we wont get any character wipes, but can we please get some action taken agianst the exploiters, and some kind of rollback?
i mean look at this, this guy i know, using a damage exploit and a boss bug managed to do this in under an hour
he has spent the last 3 days doing stuff like this nonstop, destroying the economy and amassing riches on a mule character to "hide" his illicit actions.
he's amassed over 200 million ad.... and with no rollback once the zen prices tank he's just going to cashout and sell zen, making hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars.
Good job PWE..
(200 million ad @ 200/zen is 1m zen, thats 10,000$ worth of zen, even at 400 ad per zen which is way more than it goes for now is 5,000$ worth of zen)
Game/economy is already polluted and corrupted. Won't and can't be fixed.
Open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta open beta
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Comments
nice game but how PW handle this major bug is not acceptable. it was reported a weak ago ... maybe they still celebrate big party with all the founder pack money.
or: more epics in the auctionhouse = more people who buy zen for AD = more $$$$$$
what's so difficult, to disable a set bonus via hotfix... until it is repaired?
This. Plus they are too busy fixing minor issues like people getting free BoP bags, because that actually takes money from them directly.... Who cares about bagspace when GF's can solo endgame content?
GF's obviously. But don't worry, we will probably get a new 40 USD mount to zen store to compensate the damages caused by exploits and bugs.
RaiderZ which is also published by PWE has the same glitch/bug exploit where players stacking stats/damage and 1 hitting every thing in the world.
Though I do agree with the wipe option but keep it only to those who are exploiting.
We do not want legit players to get affected by this now do we?
I need to read the forums more often. Cryptic may not give us any fun news, but the community sure does.
Seems they don't learn from their mistakes. Good to know. Lol what else happened in RaiderZ? Lets see if it happens here.
Economics doesn't work this way. When you take cash out of the economy, stuff gets less expensive. Not more. Why? You still have the exact same amount of product, and demand for that product, as you did pre-deflation. Now, however, you've got less currency to give for said products.
Let me explain this a bit more directly. If I've got 10,000 zen to sell, and the economy has 200k astral diamonds with which to buy this, I'll be able to sell said zen for 20AD. Now, if that number is cut in half, and I have only a 100k pool of astral diamonds to buy from, I'm selling my zen for 10AD. The ADs are now worth more. This will, true, effect the static priced things. Unslotting, etc... But it's not like there's a static amount of AD in game being passed around. You're still able to farm for more of em. Only, now, you'll need less of em to buy stuff off auction, or zen.
The only reason deflation is ever bad for an economy, on the whole, is because it makes the actual value of any debt quite a bit higher. If you owe 100 million, you owe 100 million, even if that 100 million buys twice as much as when you accrued the debt. But, for the individual purchaser? It actually tends to be a benefit. Tell me you wouldn't be happy, for example, to get gas for a buck fifty a gallon.
And, yeah, you could argue "they can then dump those ADs into the economy and make it collapse". Well... So can Bill Gates. Every economy is always going to have a super rich percentage. Those people would be foolish to devalue their own money by dumping it all at once. So doomsaying? A bit extreme, guys. A wipe isn't needed, imo. Fix the bug and let it sort itself out. But fix it NOW.
The irony is this might actually do a good bit to fix player complaints about how expensive everything is.
RIP Caine
Except it won't. Sure, T1/2 rares will become cheap. But everything worth buying will go up. Why? Because the people who need it now have 100mil+ AD. They can afford to spend 500k on a Coalescent Ward, but no one else can. The AH will completely cater to the super rich.
Well said .
No wipe is necessary. You can't just decide to wipe the game due to a small minority that exploited and the vast majority played legitimately. Any wipe would lead to a mass exodus of people from this game.
Given that PWE haven't banned anyone ADVERTISING IN ZONE CHAT FOR EXPLOIT PARTIES, I really doubt they will ban people over this or any other exploit.
Seriously you'll never get it sold for that, I just bought one for 15 AD on the AH.
Oh look, it's in Cryptic and PWE's best interests to actually fix the exploits before doing anything, seriously guys, you don't create an ingame economy in 2 weeks.
You expect new content 2 weeks into a soft launch. (Yes I'm aware that PWE says it's an official launch but who do you believe, the guys who want to make money saying it's launched or the people working on the actual code?) But you need to get your head screwed on if you think they'll release content this fast.
Well if they banned them first, it would still slow them down wouldn't it?
Given that people reported hitting level 60 in one day legitimately then it would be negligible.
As much as I enjoy the game, you're right. Its difficult to say which of the two companies contribute more to the greed. PWE with the lockboxes for sure, but Cryptic was also one of the first companies to have the audacity to include a cash shop on top of a subscription. I also believe that PWE refuses to allow their developers to communicate with the players. I know Nexon doesn't. Which frustrates the devs who would love to fix problems but their managers and higher ups won't allow them to.
Marvel Heroes comes out in two weeks. This game is fun, but I don't expect it to have lasting appeal. I wish it would, but the cash grabs are probably going to drive me away, and PWE doesn't care. Especially when Wildstar drops this fourth quarter.
I'll stick with it. I'm just saying there are alternatives for me.
Why would they lose money on refund? If someone bought zen and spent them on mounts or whatever, he'd get his zen back if there was a rollback/wipe.
Because people would demand cash refunds or contact their bank for a chargeback.
Some of you here who came from Champions Online.....didnt you learn your lesson the first time? They cant do math, they never listen (no matter how many people on test server reported and screamed that a game-destroying bug is about to go live...they ignore it and put it live anyway), they dont fix game breaking bugs (theres God-Mode exploits still on CO even now)
Seriously...theyre useless...what even made you think for a second that they have changed.
Give it some time, and after Cryptic have taken your money, they will abandon this game too.
dude, I cannot stay interested in games that may as well be single player by expecting me to run around alone killing a few things at a time and spending half of my time running back and forth looting this or that and running back to hand it in. I'm forcing it on my main already, I plan to force myself through 2 or 3 other characters to 60 with pvp in between in the higher levels in each bracket to avoid the fetch questing when I have the egar and skill points caught up to the higher levels ine ach bracket. Once I've raised my toons to 60, or even finish this first one, if they wipe it, there is no way in hell I'm taking zen back for it because I would never spend it as I will not do all of those boring fetch quests again. ******bags unfortunately got them to make the foudnry useless, and I'm a grinder, a REAL grinder, as in set up at a camp with a good respawn/kill/pull rythm and killt hings ot level up. even though the fetch bs can be done in days to 60, I have to force myself to do it continuously and would rather spend a couple or few weeks grinding most of my way, I spent 3 years on my first mmorpg doing that and didn't even finish the free month or first paid month of every other mmorpg I have ever played that is full of solo fetch quest to level cap lameness. If they do full wipes, or xp resets, I'd rather have my money refunded not the zen so I could blow it someplace else until i get tired of that too. don't pray for punishments ofr people that didn't foundry themselves to 60, or didn't ogre foundry especially, it's sad that legitimate grind potential was killed by this ogre HAMSTER. and bundle and kill cw HAMSTER, and push off ledges HAMSTER. pretty soon, pvp won't even give xp any more, and our only option will be running all over hell and creation for one or 2 little things at a gd time running these lame *** solo fetch quests that every modern mmorpg is full of thanks to you blizzard and your HAMSTER subscribers. my god at least make 2 new zones for each level range if you're going to wipe, so it isn't the same scenery running through hell and creation for somebody's hand basket that 2 or 3 bandits took or something.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
the game is popular. it has a lot of streamers. yet very little press.
... although I wouldn't rush calling NWN "failed".
Game/economy is already polluted and corrupted. Won't and can't be fixed.
whinerssssssssss
Rollback the players who had been bugging.
no wipe = no beta