Hi forsakenlich1. I'm a little confused about your Dungeon build since you seem to change it over 3 pages. Is this correct?
At Will: Weapon Master Strike, Wicked Strike
Encounter: Come and Get It, Indomitable Weapon Strike and Roar
Daily: Slam, Crescendo
Passive: Destroyer, Steel Blitz
Hi forsakenlich1. I'm a little confused about your Dungeon build since you seem to change it over 3 pages. Is this correct?
At Will: Weapon Master Strike, Wicked Strike
Encounter: Come and Get It, Indomitable Weapon Strike and Roar
Daily: Slam, Crescendo
Passive: Destroyer, Steel Blitz
Paragon Feats:
Great Weapon Focus 5/5
Staying Power 5/5
Deep Gash 5/5
Relentless Battle Fury 5/5
Battle Awareness 5/5
Destroyer's Purpose 1/1
Student of the Sword: 5/5
Would like to know also. Thanks.
Any "goto" power to use and abuse while leveling? Its rough right now. Companions to use while leveling? Which stats to go for Power/recovery/crit/etc. What attributes to increase
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hi forsakenlich1. I'm a little confused about your Dungeon build since you seem to change it over 3 pages. Is this correct?
At Will: Weapon Master Strike, Wicked Strike
Encounter: Come and Get It, Indomitable Weapon Strike and Roar
Daily: Slam, Crescendo
Passive: Destroyer, Steel Blitz
Paragon Feats:
Great Weapon Focus 5/5
Staying Power 5/5
Deep Gash 5/5
Relentless Battle Fury 5/5
Battle Awareness 5/5
Destroyer's Purpose 1/1
Student of the Sword: 5/5
This is correct. In very heavy add fights like spellplague caverns last boss I sometimes switch out IDBS for Daring Shout as it allows me to survive a little better and do heavier damage because the density of mobs is 5x higher than anywhere else.
it has also been brought to my attention that skills like IDBS and WMS hit only a maximum of 5 enemies. This is both good and bad. Is is good because often do you dont want to simply maximize DPS but thin out the crowd. Doing higher DPS - still AoE - but to a few is the way to go here. In fact, unless you have a group solely of non-elites, which you almost never will, you still want to thin out the crowd rather than maximize DPS. In this case, in fact, not only is IDBS still viable but in a weird way even better you actually wanna keep using WMS even in large groups rather than wicked strike.
You know those fights where your killing one wave of adds, have them all to 5-10% and then the next wave spawns? The sheer number wipes your group. Thinning rather than maximizing DPS will save you here - you will simply end up with a much smaller number on the screen
As many people have said, damage out depends heavily on the group composition as well as the players in the group. For example, it depends on how many wipes on what boss, whether or not you have a CW in your group, whether or not you have multiple clerics, and so on. I think we can all agree that in general GWF is 'okay' in terms of raw damage output, the problem is that there are no other options. You can be an AOE king or.... nothing. You can't realistically offtank, you can't spec for single target at a loss of aoe damage, you can't change anything regarding playstyle. Every other class has multiple ways to play it; GWF has one trick, and that is AOE spam.
There is a good Single Target burst built that Chainer has put together if that is what you are looking for, but it is very RNG dependant and relies on cooldowns.
In all MMO, in end game hard core stuff, like Heroic Mod Raids in WoW, there is only one way to got with each class to be most efficient at something, ofcorse there is exetions, but mostly one way to go, for end game hard core stuff
Paladins dont do anything special. Your a wow monkey and expect everything to be wow clones. you know nothing of MMOS. look at the 'original' mmos to know what diversity is. But you want everything handed to you and mentally simple rather than complex playable mechanics
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swedishtrexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
Dont you think its a problem when all you talk about where its balanced in the absolute top end ? while its sad enough ppl are there already what about everyone else ? It's a pretty doomed if everyone else gets to hear the suck it up its better in full epics because alot of us never will be there or never will care to get on the little hamster wheel of gearchasing should we just stop playing ?
leveling is as important of an experience as the end game HAMSTER because alot of us plays that and dont particapate in the rest so balance would be preferable even for us, the problem sounds more to be gear scaling (sigh how unusual) than anything meaning this game is more akin to a wow clone than anything else.
meaning this game is more akin to a wow clone than anything else.
Sorry what? This game is almost as far as you can get from a wow clone.
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
theres nothing to do in this game apart from dungeons. you want to do dungeons. you want to do well. but you dont want the gear from dungeons that enables you to do well. dont you sound like your being an idiot and making excuses here? Wake up to reality. not everything is linear. why should it be in mmorpgs - which are an extension of life for many. dont dumb down mmorpgs because you cant deal with the difficulty of things irl. what is so linear irl? No old mmorpg is even this linear, let alone as linear as stupid games like WoW
they build it the way they want to - and imo it is fantastic and way better than teddybear chasing nonsense that gives you something to hang on to every 2 levels. You cant take the 2-3 weeks it takes to level up a character? Are you still being spoon fed and having your diapers changed? You cant earn a little t2 gear? gtfo...
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
All MMO begins at max level anyway, leveling its like loooong tutorial. You starting to see your class only when you get the very last skill of it, and very last feat on skill tree. MMO activitys is: End game PvE, end game PvP, and for someone RP. Well last you can do at any level hahaha.
Paladins dont do anything special. Your a wow monkey and expect everything to be wow clones. you know nothing of MMOS. look at the 'original' mmos to know what diversity is. But you want everything handed to you and mentally simple rather than complex playable mechanics
The hilarious part is that guy has been agreeing with you the entire thread was with that post.
Might want to dial down the vitriol and not friendly fire people who agree with you (no idea why they would though).
Continue with the epeen thread!
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The hilarious part is that guy has been agreeing with you the entire thread was with that post.
Might want to dial down the vitriol and not friendly fire people who agree with you (no idea why they would though).
Continue with the epeen thread!
who gives a **** what hes been doing 'all thread'. who gives a ****? this is for people that say gwf sucks. how is this an epeen thread i need nothing of my *****
your stupid
moron
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gyloirMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
All MMO begins at max level anyway, leveling its like loooong tutorial. You starting to see your class only when you get the very last skill of it, and very last feat on skill tree. MMO activitys is: End game PvE, end game PvP, and for someone RP. Well last you can do at any level hahaha.
This is what destroy's most mmo's, the peopel that think the "end game" is all it's about, and rush tot he end game and then complain/whine that ther'es not much to do.
The journey of getting to the end game is the MAJORITY of the game, so no it's not "end game = when the game begins."
end game is called END game for a reason, when all you have left to do is raids/dungeons and no more PVE quest chains, etc and you think that's not enough, it's your own fault for rushing it.
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djleberMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Respecced to this build from kartofflens today and i gotta say the AoE is amazing. before i was below the CW in my guild by far now im around the same dps or just a tiny bit below. massive difference
Do not go primary power. That is all. Take power as a tertiary stat but stack crit and crit severity 90% and armor pen. Nasty bad stuff watching 6k-8k crits rolling off in droves and unstoppable spamming, a beautiful thing to see. The initial stats build at character creation plays a role too....
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
This is what destroy's most mmo's, the peopel that think the "end game" is all it's about, and rush tot he end game and then complain/whine that ther'es not much to do.
The journey of getting to the end game is the MAJORITY of the game, so no it's not "end game = when the game begins."
end game is called END game for a reason, when all you have left to do is raids/dungeons and no more PVE quest chains, etc and you think that's not enough, it's your own fault for rushing it.
Lol, no. In a lot of MMOs the journey to the end is not the majority of the game.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
I wonder what GWFs place in the game will be when a true dps ranged class like the ranger or warlock is added. (being wizards are controllers)
Nothing changes for me, I always play mellee classes cuz they got all the girls, not some ranged cowards hahaha
When you hit max level, and start to do real chalenges, get new tiers of gear, progress through dificultys that is MMO about, well MMO for mature players at least. Storyline is awesome but... when you doing it 4th time, jsut to get full set of level 60 characters, tank healer melle dps, ranged dps etc, you begin to hate it, or take as looong tutorial and class adaptation. I agree, there is players who like to level characters, I saw them, they hit max level, dont give a HAMSTER about endgame, and starting new character, they had like 16 high level chars just becos they enjoi leveling... Well I saw 2 of them on all my history of MMO playing
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anotechMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'? You realize in the 'original' mmos that certain classes couldnt level alone at ALL and were a super pain to level, about 10 times harder than normal classes, but very worthwhile in the end?
You design a game then. They designed it like this. Are you an mmo god?
Hopefully he meant "equally desired" vs. evenly useful. Every MMO I've ever played has strange peaks and valleys for each class until it reaches max level. I've always heard that class optimization is done primarily on max level characters because it's near impossible to "balance" for every single level.
I do agree that right now classes are not equally desired at max level.
Im still waiting for when they GWF is going to offer something. Right now in PvP I blow my encounters and if I don't kill them in that first rotation they get to just run away from me since all the dodge skills cover more distance then our sprint.
One thing I don't understand is why the hell do rogues get a range attack...
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mrbloodybartucMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited May 2013
Some say the problem is in the lower levels, some say it is in the higher levels. All I can account for is that 1-30 is a cake walk with a GWF, so I'm not sure why people are complaining. Maybe it is because people don't like to put regen/life steal on their gear, or use restore strike/cleric companion when they are solo? Or is it only because of the damage you put out while in groups? Because that isn't a problem for me either. In groups I'm almost always in the #2 spot, if I'm not in the number one. (edit: although I do switch out all of my sustain gear for crit/apenn/damage while in a group)
I'm seriously not trying to boast here, it just confuses me that people are complaining when I've thought the class has been super powerful this whole time.
2013 quip is old. "random statistic" 90% of the forum posters think they can develop a game better. go do it then.
Get your game design document, find your programmers, your 3D modellers, 2d/3d graphic artists, map makers, quest makers. And do all and keep the design fun. Everyones a sideline developer.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
What I dont understand, what problem with GWF in PvP... Unstopoble all they way, takedown, not so fast, its pretty much lowlevel moves that will own everythng in PvP, problem is that modern players want play superhumans with superpowers, and never played in proper DnD or old school RPG\MMO
Compeletly agree, leveling for me is cakewalk as GWF, life stealing, regeneration, cleric companion...
Ah wait, gear manegment is for hard core players and we want naked killing over 9000 bosses (sarcasmface) Sad that when most people meet at least 1% of challenge or game make them think with their heads they begin to complain and whine to nerf\buff something
All these people saying all classes should be easy to level as the rest are sad. Obviously they have never played an Over Lord in Lineage 2. HAHA. I leveled a Cleric to 60 here and was HEALING speced. Much harder then leveling my GWF so I don't want to hear it. Group up, it is an MMO ya know.
All these people saying all classes should be easy to level as the rest are sad. Obviously they have never played an Over Lord in Lineage 2. HAHA. I leveled a Cleric to 60 here and was HEALING speced. Much harder then leveling my GWF so I don't want to hear it. Group up, it is an MMO ya know.
I've been playing MMOs since UO and Everquest era, and I've probably played every class in pretty much every MMO since. I've played my share of hard to level classes, and ones that are late bloomers that make you want to quit the class before even reaching the point of them being good.
I'm 54 with my GWF right now, and it's been really fun since 50. It has been a very rough path on the way, but doable. I can remember being on one of the very early level quests where you have to escort that woman through the sewers, and give her a potion to calm her down if she is frightened by monsters. Up to that point I had played pretty much every other class through there, and it's just been another quest. My GWF got to that point, and there was a few times in the instance where I had to give her a potion about 6 times through the course of me chipping away at 1-2 hard mobs. It was pretty awful.
Anyone who has to go through that would hate it. You probably did too at that point. It's just not fun at all. Yeah, I've played many classes that take forever to kill something. Mostly those classes weren't meant for fast killing, or I just specialized them that way, and purposely did it to myself. GWF isn't exactly a support class, or some other low damage dealing class. It's supposed to rip through minions, and be able to destroy single targets with heavy attacks. This is achieved at higher levels, but at lower levels it leaves a lot to be desired.
Why anyone would want to argue against GWF getting a buff lower levels is just beyond me. People saying they are fine just because they leveled them the way they are is just being obnoxious really. All classes should be enjoyable to play all the way to cap level. Just because some other MMO had a much harder to solo class doesn't mean it's okay for GWF to be the way it is. Don't even get me started on how bad the PvP is until higher levels. (To anyone claiming they are good at lower levels, I'd love to see a video of this. Keeping my gear pretty up to date with no twinking it was god awful at anything but knocking someone down and being sort of hard to kill)
I've paid my dues with classes like this many times over. I'd much rather have a class that is just fun to play all the way up to cap. I'm not going to sit and say everyone else should deal with it just because I've had to do it before.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Since I got level 10, not any elite mob never survived to my 2nd Unstopoble, I realy dont want harras anyone, but things just dying in notime. And I will not make any captures on my lowlevel pvp videom becos 1st I do PvP in that time. 2nd PC is LAGGING when you capturing video, at least mine. All I want to see its single target heavy DPS skill tree, becos some of us dont want play rouges due to personal matters, character RP, background, weapon you like, reagardless. GSW should never be more then 20 seconds without Unstopoble in combat, when leveling and things attack you.
who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'?
You have some very strange views.
You design a game then.
Okay!
Since general consensus is that low level GWF is terrible, and my own experience is that low level GWF spends ages killing tough single targets, let's overhaul in that direction.
1.) Replace Reaping Strike with Wicked Strike so new GWFs have a multi attack with their giant blade that is as effective as Guardians get from the start.
2.) Make Sure Strike a 2-swing combo with about 50% higher DPS than Wicked Strike on single target. The awkward 4-swing combo and marginal performance benefit over just spamming multi-attacks at single enemies is a huge part of what makes GWF suck at first.
3.) Level 20 at-will becomes "Dismembering Strike": something like Sure Strike (single-target big hits), but can be charged to have increasing chance to knock down and inflict bleeding damage.
4.) Blend GWF's "Restoring Strike" and GF's "Griffon Strike". Both have 3 encounter charges. Guardian gets heal on his heavy hit, GWF gets interrupt.
And that should pretty much do it. GWF no longer pointless at low levels, elitist attitude no longer required, everybody happy.
Some of the posts in this thread are yet another reason why meters are evil. When I am forced by the guildies online to play as a "Tank" I lead the Damage Done most often, but the run doesn't go as smoothly as it would if I was in an off-tank, trashduty role. When I play my role of trash collector I usually come in second behind our TR, but the run goes much smoother. There's not some problem with the builds or class viability to blame here, in these cases it's simply that as a tank, I'm the fight initiator. 1-2 seconds of DPS on every fight before the rest of the party arrives adds up over the course of a dungeon. Having the Cleric focused on you as tank (allowing you eat some of the weaker damage (red circles) while still remaining in DPS adds up over the course of the dungeon.
Damage Dealt total for a dungeon is a horrible measure of class effectiveness. At least DPS would account for some of this by not counting that second or two where your tank is already in combat before your first hit lands.
On that same note, the lack of ANY ranged attack means we are left out of some, albeit very few, situations every run where melee can't get into position before the mob dies.
At any rate, I always view a build or class based on how it impacts the group moving through a dungeon, and I think GWF has an excellent role in end-game in NW. I'm psyched to try a Sentinel build this week.
BTW, I've played both Destroyer and Instigator in T1 and T2. My GS is 9800.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
I'm 54 with my GWF right now, and it's been really fun since 50. It has been a very rough path on the way, but doable. I can remember being on one of the very early level quests where you have to escort that woman through the sewers, and give her a potion to calm her down if she is frightened by monsters. Up to that point I had played pretty much every other class through there, and it's just been another quest. My GWF got to that point, and there was a few times in the instance where I had to give her a potion about 6 times through the course of me chipping away at 1-2 hard mobs. It was pretty awful.
Anyone who has to go through that would hate it. You probably did too at that point. It's just not fun at all. Yeah, I've played many classes that take forever to kill something. Mostly those classes weren't meant for fast killing, or I just specialized them that way, and purposely did it to myself. GWF isn't exactly a support class, or some other low damage dealing class. It's supposed to rip through minions, and be able to destroy single targets with heavy attacks. This is achieved at higher levels, but at lower levels it leaves a lot to be desired.
Why anyone would want to argue against GWF getting a buff lower levels is just beyond me. People saying they are fine just because they leveled them the way they are is just being obnoxious really. All classes should be enjoyable to play all the way to cap level. Just because some other MMO had a much harder to solo class doesn't mean it's okay for GWF to be the way it is. Don't even get me started on how bad the PvP is until higher levels. (To anyone claiming they are good at lower levels, I'd love to see a video of this. Keeping my gear pretty up to date with no twinking it was god awful at anything but knocking someone down and being sort of hard to kill)
I've paid my dues with classes like this many times over. I'd much rather have a class that is just fun to play all the way up to cap. I'm not going to sit and say everyone else should deal with it just because I've had to do it before.
As far as the leveling experience, I agree with you. I leveled 1-60 completely solo. It was probably the hardest leveling experience I've had in a very long time. It was a major pain in the ***. But I felt like when I dinged 60 I had earned something.
I think I agree with some of the comments in here that in MMOs of the past, hard leveling usually meant BEAST at end-game. While I find GWF more than viable, I don't know that I find it BEAST. So I don't know that the payoff is worth it leveling up so much, but remember, leveling is temporary.
Steelkat/Unfrozen Caveman - DCs
Guild Leader of MOPP4 MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
Comments
At Will: Weapon Master Strike, Wicked Strike
Encounter: Come and Get It, Indomitable Weapon Strike and Roar
Daily: Slam, Crescendo
Passive: Destroyer, Steel Blitz
Feats:
Unstoppable Action 5/5
Steely Defense 5/5
Weapon Mastery 3/3
Disciple of Strength 5/5
Endless Assault 3/3
Devastating Critical 3/3
Toughness 1/3
Paragon Feats:
Great Weapon Focus 5/5
Staying Power 5/5
Deep Gash 5/5
Relentless Battle Fury 5/5
Battle Awareness 5/5
Destroyer's Purpose 1/1
Student of the Sword: 5/5
Would like to know also. Thanks.
Any "goto" power to use and abuse while leveling? Its rough right now. Companions to use while leveling? Which stats to go for Power/recovery/crit/etc. What attributes to increase
This is correct. In very heavy add fights like spellplague caverns last boss I sometimes switch out IDBS for Daring Shout as it allows me to survive a little better and do heavier damage because the density of mobs is 5x higher than anywhere else.
it has also been brought to my attention that skills like IDBS and WMS hit only a maximum of 5 enemies. This is both good and bad. Is is good because often do you dont want to simply maximize DPS but thin out the crowd. Doing higher DPS - still AoE - but to a few is the way to go here. In fact, unless you have a group solely of non-elites, which you almost never will, you still want to thin out the crowd rather than maximize DPS. In this case, in fact, not only is IDBS still viable but in a weird way even better you actually wanna keep using WMS even in large groups rather than wicked strike.
You know those fights where your killing one wave of adds, have them all to 5-10% and then the next wave spawns? The sheer number wipes your group. Thinning rather than maximizing DPS will save you here - you will simply end up with a much smaller number on the screen
There is a good Single Target burst built that Chainer has put together if that is what you are looking for, but it is very RNG dependant and relies on cooldowns.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
Paladins dont do anything special. Your a wow monkey and expect everything to be wow clones. you know nothing of MMOS. look at the 'original' mmos to know what diversity is. But you want everything handed to you and mentally simple rather than complex playable mechanics
leveling is as important of an experience as the end game HAMSTER because alot of us plays that and dont particapate in the rest so balance would be preferable even for us, the problem sounds more to be gear scaling (sigh how unusual) than anything meaning this game is more akin to a wow clone than anything else.
Sorry what? This game is almost as far as you can get from a wow clone.
they build it the way they want to - and imo it is fantastic and way better than teddybear chasing nonsense that gives you something to hang on to every 2 levels. You cant take the 2-3 weeks it takes to level up a character? Are you still being spoon fed and having your diapers changed? You cant earn a little t2 gear? gtfo...
The hilarious part is that guy has been agreeing with you the entire thread was with that post.
Might want to dial down the vitriol and not friendly fire people who agree with you (no idea why they would though).
Continue with the epeen thread!
who gives a **** what hes been doing 'all thread'. who gives a ****? this is for people that say gwf sucks. how is this an epeen thread i need nothing of my *****
your stupid
moron
This is what destroy's most mmo's, the peopel that think the "end game" is all it's about, and rush tot he end game and then complain/whine that ther'es not much to do.
The journey of getting to the end game is the MAJORITY of the game, so no it's not "end game = when the game begins."
end game is called END game for a reason, when all you have left to do is raids/dungeons and no more PVE quest chains, etc and you think that's not enough, it's your own fault for rushing it.
Nothing changes for me, I always play mellee classes cuz they got all the girls, not some ranged cowards
When you hit max level, and start to do real chalenges, get new tiers of gear, progress through dificultys that is MMO about, well MMO for mature players at least. Storyline is awesome but... when you doing it 4th time, jsut to get full set of level 60 characters, tank healer melle dps, ranged dps etc, you begin to hate it, or take as looong tutorial and class adaptation. I agree, there is players who like to level characters, I saw them, they hit max level, dont give a HAMSTER about endgame, and starting new character, they had like 16 high level chars just becos they enjoi leveling... Well I saw 2 of them on all my history of MMO playing
Hopefully he meant "equally desired" vs. evenly useful. Every MMO I've ever played has strange peaks and valleys for each class until it reaches max level. I've always heard that class optimization is done primarily on max level characters because it's near impossible to "balance" for every single level.
I do agree that right now classes are not equally desired at max level.
One thing I don't understand is why the hell do rogues get a range attack...
I'm seriously not trying to boast here, it just confuses me that people are complaining when I've thought the class has been super powerful this whole time.
2013 quip is old. "random statistic" 90% of the forum posters think they can develop a game better. go do it then.
Get your game design document, find your programmers, your 3D modellers, 2d/3d graphic artists, map makers, quest makers. And do all and keep the design fun. Everyones a sideline developer.
Compeletly agree, leveling for me is cakewalk as GWF, life stealing, regeneration, cleric companion...
Ah wait, gear manegment is for hard core players and we want naked killing over 9000 bosses (sarcasmface) Sad that when most people meet at least 1% of challenge or game make them think with their heads they begin to complain and whine to nerf\buff something
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
I'm 54 with my GWF right now, and it's been really fun since 50. It has been a very rough path on the way, but doable. I can remember being on one of the very early level quests where you have to escort that woman through the sewers, and give her a potion to calm her down if she is frightened by monsters. Up to that point I had played pretty much every other class through there, and it's just been another quest. My GWF got to that point, and there was a few times in the instance where I had to give her a potion about 6 times through the course of me chipping away at 1-2 hard mobs. It was pretty awful.
Anyone who has to go through that would hate it. You probably did too at that point. It's just not fun at all. Yeah, I've played many classes that take forever to kill something. Mostly those classes weren't meant for fast killing, or I just specialized them that way, and purposely did it to myself. GWF isn't exactly a support class, or some other low damage dealing class. It's supposed to rip through minions, and be able to destroy single targets with heavy attacks. This is achieved at higher levels, but at lower levels it leaves a lot to be desired.
Why anyone would want to argue against GWF getting a buff lower levels is just beyond me. People saying they are fine just because they leveled them the way they are is just being obnoxious really. All classes should be enjoyable to play all the way to cap level. Just because some other MMO had a much harder to solo class doesn't mean it's okay for GWF to be the way it is. Don't even get me started on how bad the PvP is until higher levels. (To anyone claiming they are good at lower levels, I'd love to see a video of this. Keeping my gear pretty up to date with no twinking it was god awful at anything but knocking someone down and being sort of hard to kill)
I've paid my dues with classes like this many times over. I'd much rather have a class that is just fun to play all the way up to cap. I'm not going to sit and say everyone else should deal with it just because I've had to do it before.
You have some very strange views.
Okay!
Since general consensus is that low level GWF is terrible, and my own experience is that low level GWF spends ages killing tough single targets, let's overhaul in that direction.
1.) Replace Reaping Strike with Wicked Strike so new GWFs have a multi attack with their giant blade that is as effective as Guardians get from the start.
2.) Make Sure Strike a 2-swing combo with about 50% higher DPS than Wicked Strike on single target. The awkward 4-swing combo and marginal performance benefit over just spamming multi-attacks at single enemies is a huge part of what makes GWF suck at first.
3.) Level 20 at-will becomes "Dismembering Strike": something like Sure Strike (single-target big hits), but can be charged to have increasing chance to knock down and inflict bleeding damage.
4.) Blend GWF's "Restoring Strike" and GF's "Griffon Strike". Both have 3 encounter charges. Guardian gets heal on his heavy hit, GWF gets interrupt.
And that should pretty much do it. GWF no longer pointless at low levels, elitist attitude no longer required, everybody happy.
Damage Dealt total for a dungeon is a horrible measure of class effectiveness. At least DPS would account for some of this by not counting that second or two where your tank is already in combat before your first hit lands.
On that same note, the lack of ANY ranged attack means we are left out of some, albeit very few, situations every run where melee can't get into position before the mob dies.
At any rate, I always view a build or class based on how it impacts the group moving through a dungeon, and I think GWF has an excellent role in end-game in NW. I'm psyched to try a Sentinel build this week.
BTW, I've played both Destroyer and Instigator in T1 and T2. My GS is 9800.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.
As far as the leveling experience, I agree with you. I leveled 1-60 completely solo. It was probably the hardest leveling experience I've had in a very long time. It was a major pain in the ***. But I felt like when I dinged 60 I had earned something.
I think I agree with some of the comments in here that in MMOs of the past, hard leveling usually meant BEAST at end-game. While I find GWF more than viable, I don't know that I find it BEAST. So I don't know that the payoff is worth it leveling up so much, but remember, leveling is temporary.
Guild Leader of MOPP4
MOPP 4′s community was created to cater to those who have served or currently serve in the armed forces around the world as well as friends, family & supporters of the armed forces. We also now proudly support the Wounded Warrior Project. For more details please go here.