test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Class Forums›
Proof of GWF Viability 60+
forsakenlich1
Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
People are still arguing that GWF is bad has trash DPS etc and they ask for screenshots
so here they are
This is from my most recent Spellplague Caverns Tier 2 Dungeon.
Out DPS similarly geared rogue by 4.2 million
This is not a one off and not an accident
My guide can be found here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?185882-My-GWF-DPs-PvP-Build. It is not fully updated look to page 3 for my 'real build'
I outgeared him a little. I had set bonuses and epic pants but he had epic belt which I did not.
Screenshot of his and my gear also provided
What say now GWF haters?
so here they are
This is from my most recent Spellplague Caverns Tier 2 Dungeon.
Out DPS similarly geared rogue by 4.2 million
This is not a one off and not an accident
My guide can be found here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?185882-My-GWF-DPs-PvP-Build. It is not fully updated look to page 3 for my 'real build'
I outgeared him a little. I had set bonuses and epic pants but he had epic belt which I did not.
Screenshot of his and my gear also provided
What say now GWF haters?
Post edited by forsakenlich1 on
0
Comments
GWFs below 60 and people who have not played GWF do not have a say in viability, and I think it's usually those who scream the loudest. Although, the way to 60 have room for much improvement.
The items tend to be hybrid, as my lvl 60 blue Smiting boots are far superior to my purple T2's when it comes to power.
12% flat damage increase is more valuable to me than 4.5% crit chance.
and no, plenty of people are griping about GWFs after 60 and asking for screenshots, quitting, saying it is broken
Well classes should be evenly useful throughout the leveling process. People crying about the low levels being bad have a valid claim about low levels being bad. Rogues don't have the problem of being complete **** for 30levels, ok for 20 levels then super good for the last 10. They're good at all stages of the leveling process, so are wizards. GWF on the other hand are fairly awful early on, EVEN with the right spec, which is another issue, it seems to me that there are absolutely must have feats that if for some reason you don't get, you won't even come close to being useful as a DPS.
you make the game then
who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'? You realize in the 'original' mmos that certain classes couldnt level alone at ALL and were a super pain to level, about 10 times harder than normal classes, but very worthwhile in the end?
You design a game then. They designed it like this. Are you an mmo god?
Couldn't agree more, regardless we play different specs - just like you smoking in tier 2. 17 million in Caverns against red dragon, 5 mill ahead of wiz, 6 mill ahead of rogue.
Btw how you take a screenshot?
Extinction - GWF
The rogue is still a lot better in Boss fights. They have enough mobility to zip around and peg off trash mobs one by one quickly and effectiantly while the GWF is trying to hit 3 or more trash mobs at once, and he will take just as much time to kill 3 trash mobs as a rogue. However they all take longer to kill meaning they beat on your cleric or wizard a lot more. Now that is assuming a CW is grouping up the mobs all nice for the GWF to aoe them down. If mobs are scattered. 1v1 the GWF sucks compared to a rogue. Rogues at lv 60 are boasting 50k crits I've seen a 12k Crescendo once on my DPS build but I think it might have had extra damage from at will attacks added to that big number. And yeah I've been one shotted by a rogue in lv 60PvP without unstoppable up so I believe it.
Now that is the best you can expect from GWF. Now the Tank version is absolutely horrible. They have next to nothing for threat even with all the threat moves. I remember soloing a fire giant as my Threat speced GWF, a wizard came along dropped some controls on it and wandered off when the controls wore off the Giant was at 25% health and following the wizard. It was dumb.
GWF don't have a viable role in the group, They do best when teamed up with a Wizard or GF that can group the mobs all nice in one place for him. They need to be a viable offtank, and should be the Go to guy to protect your Cleric. Right now that's the Wizards Job. If they could hold threat and take hits better they would not need help to be able to put out good total damage in the dungeon because they would be in first to hold all the little guys and keep damage on them. While your version of GWF can be I chase down mass numbers and kill them quickly. Both should be able to put up good damage numbers. Lower damage tanky GWF by being in the fight longer and not having to chase as much and the Destroyer path just for having high damage output.
Both GWF need to be viable. And I think the Tanky variation is a lot more important as the game will be full of Striker type classes when the new classes come in. There will be very little tanks or offtanks.
Your wrong in every single way and it shows just how pig headed people can be and know nothing about their class. You refuse to learn the play style of this game and your class then complain that it is bad. Welcome to real life.
So what if AoE is where GWF shines? If single target was where he shone by law of balance he could not shine at AoE, peeling and off-tanking. If Single target was where he shone what would rogues do? Lick themselves? Whats their use then?
I crit 25k+ regularly on Indomintable Battle Strike if your gs is only 600 below mine and your maxing out at 12k Crescendo Crits your build is wrong.
'Thats the best you can expect from a GWF'. OutDPSing a rogue with the same gear score by 4.2 million while bringing better utility peel and off-tanking capabilities is 'the best you can expect from a GWF'. Your in a fantasy world and want sparkling unicorns on your characters head if you want any 'more'.
'GWF don't have a viable role in the group, They do best when teamed up with a Wizard or GF that can group the mobs all nice in one place for him. '. Your pathetic your 60 and don't realize you have a skill called Come and Get it? It has insane range, short cooldown, and groups up mobs and pulls them to you all at the same time. It is the strongest trash mob positioning control power in the game
If they 'held threat' they would die. They can off tank adds for a while. The reason your not 'holding threat' is because your damage and skills suck. Use my build in this guide. I can hold threat just fine when I need to. Your peeling abilities come from moves like Come and Get it. You dont need to have a targeted 'Draw Aggro' ability or you would be a GF.
SMH you post proof of this kind and you still get responses that are lost in their own heads and in their own world and dont see the proof right in front of them that shows them that the problem is with them and not the class.
Ill tell you something else there are some other dungeons i paid attention to my stats just because i wanted to prove GWFs are great - Pirate King runs where I did 6 million more DPS than TWO ROGUES on my team, one of which made the statement I am speechless I have never been outdpsed in PvE before. This same run I had no deaths and a damage taken score only 300k less than the GF, max executes as well. Not useful? Right there I am the #1 most useful member in that group by far and if these screenshots make you think that the GWF has 'no use' you need to have your head examined...
This class needs to be played at it's peak to shine...and then..there's still pvp and lvling.
people asked for screenies i provided it. This is one of the main T2 Dungeons in this game not a 'random instance'. I regularly beat CWs by a **** ton and rogues in instances.
We have plenty of utility. Rogues and wizards cannot off tank. Of course we cant compare to the single target damage of a rogue, otherwise youd be QQing that rogues are useless instead.
Your junk learn it
Well it's 2013 idiot devs know better.
your a carebear since you think that 'making everything right' is what an mmorpg is about. End game balance is what it is about. The rest of it is open world. The more imbalanced the rest of it is the more real of an mmorpg it is.
I got news for you, 'idiot', WoW is no longer a true mmorpg although they use that title. This game isnt really an mmorpg. they might be mmogs, but the 'rp' part of it is gone when you put instant cross server dungeon ques, allow people to roll both races on the same server, allow people to level to 60 without taking a step out of main cities.
Games these days know less than many old school mmorpgs particularly korean ones
any 'real' dev with an idea for a great mmorpg will know that if you want a great, varied end game with depth and panorama your 'early' and 'mid' game will be weird and possibly skewed.
you just dont know this
You have plenty of utility if your too busy looking into the mirror.And I'm not qqing about any class I play 3 of them sometimes I end up first sometimes I get beaten.I'm not coming here to complain about anyones class and certainly not to play some attention monger about some imaginary ppl who asked about his personal view of the class.If you know the class is good you wouldn't feel the need of coming here to tell the whole world unless...yea you should get it by now.
i get that your an idiot
you dont get it at all by the looks of it...
I use WMS as my main at will, and I keep everything debuffed, all the time. I use Reaping Strike as my Primary AoE when not Unstoppable, WMS spam when Unstoppable. I find at 60 I rarely use Reaping strike, I almost always have up Unstoppable or Slam.
I use Slam and Crescendo as my Daily powers. Slam for AoE damage and fast determination. Crescendo as a single target finisher and burst. Crescendo has critical hit for well over 20k with WMS debuff and Combat Advantage. The final hit alone was over 17k damage. My GWF is in the PvP purple gear, with the Delzoun Sword, and blue level 55 rings and a blue level 60 amulet. Still the lame shirt and pants. Gear score is around 8100 IIRC, I still have not run a single epic dungeon.
I use Indomitable Battle Strike, which critical hits for 12k +, Flourish, which critical hits for 2-3k per hit with the bigger finish, plus the interrupt, and Restoring Strike, which critical hits for about 8k damage and can heal me for almost 3k.
I was surprised at how effective I was in PvP. I beat most other GWF one on one, and I beat many other classes as well one on one. GF gives me the biggest pain with their stupid silly OP block mechanic. But I placed 1-3 in most PvP sessions. I also placed 1-3 in most PvE skirmish and dungeons that I ran. I did them all except the level 52 spell plague and the last one in the Underdark. I also found myself pretty able to help kill the adds and keep the DC clean. Not always with aggro but with my encounter power load out I can do significant single damage to an elite and take it down solo fast enough.
My build shines in both AoE and single damage. I could do more AoE damage with Mighty Leap, Roar, and Not So Fast. But I find that the groups need me more for burst on the elite mobs not so much on the little guys. I also find that grousp really suck at keeping things gathered up. I did take Come And Get It, but I have not played around with it yet. I may try a load out with that, Mighty Leap, and Not So Fast for grouping and tearing down AoE packs.
They key is to cycle Slam and Unstoppable. Yes you can blow them both at once and just wreck stuff, but if you do, they are both going to be down a long time. I use my encounters and Unstoppable together and it is pretty good, it builds the AP for Slam back up quickly. Some fights I have Unstoppable up so much, I literally can keep it up almost non stop. Couple that with the 10% heal from PvP 4 set, and there is a lot of survival there too. I may even keep those set pieces around to solo farm once I upgrade them.
I have read about the Instigator AoE builds, and they look strong, but I just like the Destroyer build. I gain Determination so fast that I really don't even need Roar in my load out, nor to use Reaping Strike much. All in all, I think there are many ways to make a GWF work. Only the Sentinel line struggles for two reasons. 1) Their threat generation sucks. 2) They sacrifice too much damage for survival and the people that only look at damage numbers will not value them in groups. I do think the Sentinel needs love, and a lot of it. Mainly in the threat generation area.
Let me put it this way, on my GF I can keep everyone clean with one encounter and one at will, and that is at level 16-20. Clerics don't have to fret in groups with me on a GF, with me on a GWF... well I can help but there is no way I am "keeping them clean".
In summary, I think the damage specs of the GWF, both Instigator and Destroyer have a lot of little nuances and variations, and they both seem viable. The Sentinel needs love. I can see where people playing that line might have issues, but even with them, I would have to see how the gear effects them. Because I can say for me, the difference in a fresh 60 without the Delzoune Weapon, and one with it was night and day. I cannot speak for other classes, but I can say that the GWF needs to have a good build, decent player, and the gear to back them up to really shine.
Very uninformed post. It's unfortunate that you don't realize how useful the GWF actually is in high level game play. How is the rogue going to deal with ENDLESS trash waves, key word ENDLESS trash waves in boss fights and still take out the boss?? You are a million times more useful for that then the rogue would ever hope to be. Your unstoppable also reduces DAMAGE TAKEN so that you are able to deal with the trash where the rogue just melts and dies. It doesn't matter which spec you use even the so far seemingly gimpy sentinel, a rogue has no hope in doing what you do.
I'm sorry to say the game is not designed as a single target burst fest, whether you like that direction or not is another story. You couldn't be more wrong that a rogue will do it better then a GWF at his role. You use an example of 3 mobs, good luck with any key battles that involve 3 mobs, try 10-20 or more. So while the rogue is beating them down one at a time the other 19 mobs and the boss are laying waste to your party. Have fun with that lol.
Extinction - GWF
It is the utility knife of the party for sure, filling in to help out in all roles depending what is needed. I've never been in a group that wasn't happy to have the GWF in the party and have had lots of friend request at the end of a dungeon delve for an invitation to future runs.
Extinction - GWF
Interesting feedback, and well written with experience of the end game. In fact you have progressed further then I have and higher gear score. Though my observations up to mount so far are way different. I can't speak deeper into the dungeons then that.
I laid waste in mount, honestly millions ahead in damage vs our wizard and the rogue another million behind the wizard which was 5 million behind me. The damage numbers are what they are, and don't mean a whole bunch at the end of the day, but we did the run with 2 clerics and I tanked the place as an instigator. I tried destroyer but found instigator far better for me.
Not sure how we have such varied takes on effectiveness? I got friended by everyone but the rogue at the end of the run and I know my role and contribution to the dungeon was important.
Honestly not sure how there is that big of discrepancy?
Extinction - GWF
People who make statements like these do not have a say in viability. LOL
Seriously, what kind of stupid logic is that? Sorry I am not one of those that want to grind 1-60 in under 48 hours. I, along with the majority of the player base of ANY mmo, like to enjoy the entire content, not just endgame. Sure it is good to know that GWF are very viable at 60. But for the 59 other levels, when I want to enjoy low level dungeons, skirmishes, PvP, and whatnot, I still want to be viable. I dont want to dominate. I am ok with a TR 3 shotting me. I am ok with Clerics being able to AOE heals like nutcases, and I am even OK with CW's crowd control. What I am not ok with is GF out DPSing me as much as 4x in lower levels. I am not ok with standing over a CW while unstoppable and take out 25% of his health by the time he kills me. I am not ok with a Cleric doing more AOE dps than I am all from the safety of range and no way of hampering their heals while fighting them 1v1...among many other things.
This is not a QQ. I know this is still "Beta", and I know that things will be balanced eventually to some degree. The whole point of this post is to totally criticize the logic that if a class is fine at 60, than all is well.
It's kind of amusing that you would post that with incorrect punctuation.
Not necessarily. If you read the "question" as a statement/command then it does not require a question mark.