You outdpsed bad players if it was by 4.2M, however, GWFs are the highest dps class bar rogues. DPS GF are close by (they are a mix of rogues and GWF: high aoe with Cleave and high single target through Lunging Strike, Knee break and Griffon's wrath). CWs aren't outdpsing anyone if the other classes are played optimally, they can get close though. In fights with a lot of aoe (most dungeons) GWFs get pretty **** close to rogues. Rogues are broken though; you shouldn't do more damage by single target dpsing than someone who's based on aoeing does by aoeing. That's just bad design. It's fine that rogues do the highest single target damage, and a class that does this is needed, but it shouldn't be so high that they can outdps someone who's hitting 5+ mobs at the same time.
Im close to giving up on the GWF since every single time I attempt to PvP I am unable to do enough damage to tickle someone or I get CCed all day long by CW or 1 shot by Rogues.
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professorpudgeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Im close to giving up on the GWF since every single time I attempt to PvP I am unable to do enough damage to tickle someone or I get CCed all day long by CW or 1 shot by Rogues.
Depends what level you are? Once you hit 30 and can get Flourish, pvp becomes more fun. Takedown -> Flourish --> Restorative Strike is a very viable stun-lock+high dmg (esp if you crit) burst that can finish off players who aren't at full health.
That being said, going 1 on 1 against any full health class without a lucky crit or full determination/Action bar involves lots of kiting till your cooldowns are up. We are not a face-to-face smash/skillmashing class.
Do your combos, kite, do your combos again and stop thinking that holding a greatsword means we can stand toe-to-toe without kiting and avoiding, and you will feel alot better with GWF in pvp.
Depends what level you are? Once you hit 30 and can get Flourish, pvp becomes more fun. Takedown -> Flourish --> Restorative Strike is a very viable stun-lock+high dmg (esp if you crit) burst that can finish off players who aren't at full health.
That being said, going 1 on 1 against any full health class without a lucky crit or full determination/Action bar involves lots of kiting till your cooldowns are up. We are not a face-to-face smash/skillmashing class.
Do your combos, kite, do your combos again and stop thinking that holding a greatsword means we can stand toe-to-toe without kiting and avoiding, and you will feel alot better with GWF in pvp.
Ya I am only 29, so when you are PvPing you do not use your at-will skills?
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daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im close to giving up on the GWF since every single time I attempt to PvP I am unable to do enough damage to tickle someone or I get CCed all day long by CW or 1 shot by Rogues.
Dumb question but I need to ask....whats CCing? I keep seeing people say that...
Depends what level you are? Once you hit 30 and can get Flourish, pvp becomes more fun. Takedown -> Flourish --> Restorative Strike is a very viable stun-lock+high dmg (esp if you crit) burst that can finish off players who aren't at full health.
That being said, going 1 on 1 against any full health class without a lucky crit or full determination/Action bar involves lots of kiting till your cooldowns are up. We are not a face-to-face smash/skillmashing class.
Do your combos, kite, do your combos again and stop thinking that holding a greatsword means we can stand toe-to-toe without kiting and avoiding, and you will feel alot better with GWF in pvp.
How do you kite exactly? I try to run and run out of stamina, quickly, and then I get caught and stunned by an invisible rogue and/or caught up in that tornado thing the wizards do. Then I can't run at all. Plus trying to even find the other players with everyone invisible Im swinging not even sure if Im hitting half the time because the rogues are so fast.
Also I didn't seem to be building much if any determination to get unstoppable off, even though with the huge amounts of damage I was taking I should have had it FAST.
Im not really *****ing, Im just trying to get better. Keep In mind Im Level 24 right now, so I know Im not going to do fantastically, but something would be nice.
Ya I am only 29, so when you are PvPing you do not use your at-will skills?
You have to, the other stuff takes a while to recharge. You have to hit with your powers and then use your at wills, hopefully while unstoppable, while they recharge. Problem is you're either stunned or stopped the whole time and can't use anything, when you can everyones invisible, running too fast or too far away to make them in a sprint before you run out of stamina and/or get stunned again. So half the powers I use are misses or I'm dead before I can use any of them because I was being controlled my something and two rogues took me down.
Dumb question but I need to ask....whats CCing? I keep seeing people say that...
How do you kite exactly? I try to run and run out of stamina, quickly, and then I get caught and stunned by an invisible rogue and/or caught up in that tornado thing the wizards do. Then I can't run at all. Plus trying to even find the other players with everyone invisible Im swinging not even sure if Im hitting half the time because the rogues are so fast.
Also I didn't seem to be building much if any determination to get unstoppable off, even though with the huge amounts of damage I was taking I should have had it FAST.
Im not really *****ing, Im just trying to get better. Keep In mind Im Level 24 right now, so I know Im not going to do fantastically, but something would be nice.
You have to, the other stuff takes a while to recharge. You have to hit with your powers and then use your at wills, hopefully while unstoppable, while they recharge. Problem is you're either stunned or stopped the whole time and can't use anything, when you can everyones invisible, running too fast or too far away to make them in a sprint before you run out of stamina and/or get stunned again. So half the powers I use are misses or I'm dead before I can use any of them because I was being controlled my something and two rogues took me down.
CCing is a general term in games for Crowd Control. You can get more specific with Hard CC (Stuns, knock ups, stuff that prevents you from doing ANYTHING) and Soft CC (Silences, slows, stuff that just stops you from doing some actions.)
In this game however silence is almost like a Hard CC can auto attack or run.. just walk away very slowly.
People have really got to stop using this as an excuse to showgloat on the forums, all classes can hit top damage in a dungeon depending on all kinds of builds and situations and the team involved etc. 1 GWF/GF/TR/CW/DC and 4 heal DC's could run a dungeon and be like "I OUT DPSED MY ENTIRE TEAM, MY CLASS RULES AND SO DO I"
Seriously you can tell when someone only cares about doing the most damage as opposed to playing well sometimes it just starts a friendly competition when someone pipes up "hey im doing the most damage!"
People have really got to stop using this as an excuse to showgloat on the forums, all classes can hit top damage in a dungeon depending on all kinds of builds and situations and the team involved etc. 1 GWF/GF/TR/CW/DC and 4 heal DC's could run a dungeon and be like "I OUT DPSED MY ENTIRE TEAM, MY CLASS RULES AND SO DO I"
Seriously you can tell when someone only cares about doing the most damage as opposed to playing well sometimes it just starts a friendly competition when someone pipes up "hey im doing the most damage!"
I don't know about most people but my main concerns are with PvP. I could care less about PvE damage.
I outgeared him a little. I had set bonuses and epic pants but he had epic belt which I did not.
Screenshot of his and my gear also provided
What say now GWF haters?
Firstly, pve who cares.
Secondly , you aoe trash brilliantly congrats. Single target a rogue 1k under you would eat your breakfast.
PVP is where most of the GWF rage is at.. and its justified.. pve is really of no consequence as most instances are so easy u can do them with any compilation. as long as u have a decent cleric.
Pretty sure our class should be renamed, GTF great trash fighter.
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aetherionMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Well, this is pretty much my build without any respecs, made it on the fly with what made the most sense.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
What problem can have with crowd control class, with controll IMMUNITY for some time ? Stunned? hitted by multiply fast attacks? Determination bar filled? so click "Tab" and go nuts on puny stunners. You getting it from level 10! Indominateble removes controlling eefects and makes you immune to it! Stuns isnt complain for GWF. One more time in PvP GWF is ANTYCONTROLLER due to his Indominateble. Smart stunners will just stun GWF and do not attack, that way he can be controlled, but hey, who cares, you get determination bar filled in seconds, in PvP I running without Indominatable like 2 seconds then it got filled by over 9000 of rouges, without healer in PvP, my HP bar is enough, for 3 Indominateble, and its alot in terms of capture, wait for reinforcment, catch wizard or rouge and Takedown him
Leveling - perfect, I enjoin seeing my character actualy developing and evolving, from simple guy who knows cople of sword swinging to a spacemarine man of.... avalence of steel . I started to paly rouge and like whaat? Leveling at low levels should be challenging, I enjoing to level my GWF, through quests and PvP. I think GWF and GF is only classes with sane leveling, that make sense, you not starting game already shadowdancer, or archemage who summons blackholes syngularitys at level 15
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
with the state of the end game and the ridiculous class compositions i'm seeing trying to queue for t2 dungeons as a cleric i'm likely to switch to a gwf main now.
gwf's - well played, on-the-ball gwf's taht know how to round up and deal with adds or be teh boss tank depending on composition - can make or break a pug, especially with the bloody queue gives you TWO ROGUES who are USELESS on most boss fights outside of pew pew'ng the boss.
I outgeared him a little. I had set bonuses and epic pants but he had epic belt which I did not.
Screenshot of his and my gear also provided
What say now GWF haters?
so you are able to out dps a rogue when a ton of mobs are around. why not just cc them (CW) and focus the boss, once again there is no point to a GWF at all. I could be wrong but name one boss fight were the mobs cant be cc, I would rather cc mobs and have the dps focus on the boss any day.
GWF cant tank at all because their agro sucks, they cant dps single target ( about 1/5 of a rogues ), they cant CC at all they have craptacular snare/roots. if they had some knockbacks that also root/snare, then you might can find a place for them. As of now any class is much better at everything that a GWF can do, making it pointless to bring them at all.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
so you are able to out dps a rogue when a ton of mobs are around. why not just cc them (CW) and focus the boss, once again there is no point to a GWF at all. I could be wrong but name one boss fight were the mobs cant be cc, I would rather cc mobs and have the dps focus on the boss any day.
GWF cant tank at all because their agro sucks, they cant dps single target ( about 1/5 of a rogues ), they cant CC at all they have craptacular snare/roots. if they had some knockbacks that also root/snare, then you might can find a place for them. As of now any class is much better at everything that a GWF can do, making it pointless to bring them at all.
are you not 60 or something or do you just not do any epic dungeons....ever?
so you are able to out dps a rogue when a ton of mobs are around. why not just cc them (CW) and focus the boss, once again there is no point to a GWF at all. I could be wrong but name one boss fight were the mobs cant be cc, I would rather cc mobs and have the dps focus on the boss any day.
GWF cant tank at all because their agro sucks, they cant dps single target ( about 1/5 of a rogues ), they cant CC at all they have craptacular snare/roots. if they had some knockbacks that also root/snare, then you might can find a place for them. As of now any class is much better at everything that a GWF can do, making it pointless to bring them at all.
theorycraft more, live in your head it does you good. You have clearly never done a t2 dungeon.
i dont need to explain more except that this guy is a moron
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im close to giving up on the GWF since every single time I attempt to PvP I am unable to do enough damage to tickle someone or I get CCed all day long by CW or 1 shot by Rogues.
do excellent in pvp. Rogues are frustrating
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yoshiichiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
GWF is quite miserable on low lvls in pve, yet the GF deals a lot more damage. It just depends on your desires: Do u wish to be viable at high lvls and dont care about your аss exploding while lvling ? Take GWF ! Otherwise take any other class. We dont have much choice for now.
p.s. sry for bad english.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
Still dont see problem at lowlevel GWF, proper leveling like it was in older games, I remember I was playing hard core rules DnD where 90% of characters dying not even leveld to level 2, it seems modern gamers consider balanced and not OP class as misereble, very sad.
Forsaken, your tips and build working awesome, roar is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in terms of filling AC. Thanks you for your efforts and work
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Still dont see problem at lowlevel GWF, proper leveling like it was in older games, I remember I was playing hard core rules DnD where 90% of characters dying not even leveld to level 2, it seems modern gamers consider balanced and not OP class as misereble, very sad.
Forsaken, your tips and build working awesome, roar is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in terms of filling AC. Thanks you for your efforts and work
are you not 60 or something or do you just not do any epic dungeons....ever?
This isn't really a good argument. The fact that a class becomes useful and necessary at high level does not make it alright for them to be underpowered at low level. "Well, just keep investing time and it will pay off later." Isn't a good way to design your classes.
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This isn't really a good argument. The fact that a class becomes useful and necessary at high level does not make it alright for them to be underpowered at low level. "Well, just keep investing time and it will pay off later." Isn't a good way to design your classes.
just because you played some other video game does not make you capable of passing judgement on this one. l2p
I did fine pre 60 leveling as a destroyer. Sure there were runs where a rogue doubled me in damage, but a lot of times that has to do with level and gearing differential more than anything. The reason the GWF shines at 60 is because in those groups people tend to be more on par in gearing level. Also the reason why they take off at level 37 to 40 or so, is because that is usually about where most GWF start maxing and using WMS.
If your in a run with a non idiot CW, about 50/50 in my experience, where the mobs stay relatively grouped up, you will wreck stuff. As for the single damage, I do not do what a rogue does, but that is not my role is it? In PvP I kill rogues one on one all the time, it mostly depends on who gets the jump. If I stand around and let them gank me sure, being at 50% life before I can use an encounter is a loss. But when I can smack them with a flourish and IDBS to open, they usually cannot recover from that. Same for a CW. It all comes down to who gets the jump. There have even been some times where I take on two, say a GF and DC and kill them both by myself. It all really depends on the players and how the battle unfolds, IMO there is not a whole lot wrong with our damage.
Now adding a block feature to Reaping Strike while it charges up, that is indeed needed. As well as some real threat mechanics in the Sentinel tree, *cough* taunts *cough*. But really the class is not as broken as some make it out to be. Granted I need to run epics yet but I think if I am in the right kind of group I will do well enough to be wanted in groups.
Edit: Oh and yes, a completely viable tactic is to wade into the other group, get off an encounter or two, then sprint out. Many times you will get them focusing on you and then your other players can go in on them with impunity. Call it a feint offensive if you will. It also many times gets them chasing you and lets your group pick them off one by one, or at times forces the other team to back up off the point and allows your team to move in and dominate it.
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res9Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'? You realize in the 'original' mmos that certain classes couldnt level alone at ALL and were a super pain to level, about 10 times harder than normal classes, but very worthwhile in the end?
You design a game then. They designed it like this. Are you an mmo god?
So apparently you have to be a "MMO God" to be allowed an entirely valid opinion, or to provide feedback to a game in BETA. The concerns raised by Pyrsarashi are entirely valid GWF's are the worst to level the CW outshines it in every way possible late game in terms of AOE Dps. Now i know you are going to say they are DPS/off-Tank, the issue with this being that unless you spec Sent you can't hold threat worth spit and if you spec sent your dps is trash. Even speced and a sentinel Your next to worthless as a CW or even a second GF would peel better. but that is beside the point lets get back to this "who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'?" well captain high horse if the class can't preform a role better than anyone else it becomes useless thusly it should not be run in any competitive level this in turn makes the class BROKEN those original MMO's you refer to (since you did not name any i can't cite any example sadly) did however provide useful roles for that class in the endgame for example the priest in WoW was a pain to level solo back in vanilla as a healer. The difference being that Priests were a rewarding class endgame with a clear role and competitive performance with in it. Unlike the GWF which in my opinion requires work. Deal with it i have an opinion i don't need to be an MMO god to have a valid complaint with a class.
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forsakenlich1Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So apparently you have to be a "MMO God" to be allowed an entirely valid opinion, or to provide feedback to a game in BETA. The concerns raised by Pyrsarashi are entirely valid GWF's are the worst to level the CW outshines it in every way possible late game in terms of AOE Dps. Now i know you are going to say they are DPS/off-Tank, the issue with this being that unless you spec Sent you can't hold threat worth spit and if you spec sent your dps is trash. Even speced and a sentinel Your next to worthless as a CW or even a second GF would peel better. but that is beside the point lets get back to this "who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'?" well captain high horse if the class can't preform a role better than anyone else it becomes useless thusly it should not be run in any competitive level this in turn makes the class BROKEN those original MMO's you refer to (since you did not name any i can't cite any example sadly) did however provide useful roles for that class in the endgame for example the priest in WoW was a pain to level solo back in vanilla as a healer. The difference being that Priests were a rewarding class endgame with a clear role and competitive performance with in it. Unlike the GWF which in my opinion requires work. Deal with it i have an opinion i don't need to be an MMO god to have a valid complaint with a class.
talk to the devs not to me. and im not reading that wall of text
additionally, idgaf i dominate in pvp and pve, so yours is a l2p issue
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res9Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
talk to the devs not to me. and im not reading that wall of text
additionally, idgaf i dominate in pvp and pve, so yours is a l2p issue
Ill use less words you can understand GWF in PvE does nothing special or better than anyone else thus is in need of a work over, you however can't be fixed I'm afraid you will always be a condescending arsehat
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mannokMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Nice informative thread, all around. I read it all. This class could be awesome with some adjustments.
My biggest concern is that the class relies too heavily on "Slam" and "Unstoppable" for any kind of less than mediocre damage, and these abilities are not 100% player controlled. This leaves the class with few options, especially in PvP.
Destroyer is great for PvE due to the masses of thrash, which helps built determination, but insignificant in PvP. The most viable spec in PvP is properly a deep dip into Sentinel for defence and abit in Instigator for the added stun to Flourish. Well my intuition tells me, that it feels like you need to use feats to get abilities that the class should have had from level 1.
It still lacks that semi-automatic 50% melee snare, that has proven in countless games before this, is the bread and butter of any melee dps. If they added that along 50-100% increase to Sure strike I think it would feel like a GWF and not the "GTF"
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
In PvP I Unstopoble 80% of the time. Ofcorse I will not survive alone against entire enemy team... Yeah if I cant kill 5 enemy players in PvP with 1 shot, then probably class is broken, will go and make CW (/sarcasmface)
As many people have said, damage out depends heavily on the group composition as well as the players in the group. For example, it depends on how many wipes on what boss, whether or not you have a CW in your group, whether or not you have multiple clerics, and so on. I think we can all agree that in general GWF is 'okay' in terms of raw damage output, the problem is that there are no other options. You can be an AOE king or.... nothing. You can't realistically offtank, you can't spec for single target at a loss of aoe damage, you can't change anything regarding playstyle. Every other class has multiple ways to play it; GWF has one trick, and that is AOE spam.
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sithisheMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
In all MMO, in end game hard core stuff, like Heroic Mod Raids in WoW, there is only one way to got with each class to be most efficient at something, ofcorse there is exetions, but mostly one way to go, for end game hard core stuff
Comments
Im close to giving up on the GWF since every single time I attempt to PvP I am unable to do enough damage to tickle someone or I get CCed all day long by CW or 1 shot by Rogues.
Depends what level you are? Once you hit 30 and can get Flourish, pvp becomes more fun. Takedown -> Flourish --> Restorative Strike is a very viable stun-lock+high dmg (esp if you crit) burst that can finish off players who aren't at full health.
That being said, going 1 on 1 against any full health class without a lucky crit or full determination/Action bar involves lots of kiting till your cooldowns are up. We are not a face-to-face smash/skillmashing class.
Do your combos, kite, do your combos again and stop thinking that holding a greatsword means we can stand toe-to-toe without kiting and avoiding, and you will feel alot better with GWF in pvp.
Ya I am only 29, so when you are PvPing you do not use your at-will skills?
Dumb question but I need to ask....whats CCing? I keep seeing people say that...
How do you kite exactly? I try to run and run out of stamina, quickly, and then I get caught and stunned by an invisible rogue and/or caught up in that tornado thing the wizards do. Then I can't run at all. Plus trying to even find the other players with everyone invisible Im swinging not even sure if Im hitting half the time because the rogues are so fast.
Also I didn't seem to be building much if any determination to get unstoppable off, even though with the huge amounts of damage I was taking I should have had it FAST.
Im not really *****ing, Im just trying to get better. Keep In mind Im Level 24 right now, so I know Im not going to do fantastically, but something would be nice.
You have to, the other stuff takes a while to recharge. You have to hit with your powers and then use your at wills, hopefully while unstoppable, while they recharge. Problem is you're either stunned or stopped the whole time and can't use anything, when you can everyones invisible, running too fast or too far away to make them in a sprint before you run out of stamina and/or get stunned again. So half the powers I use are misses or I'm dead before I can use any of them because I was being controlled my something and two rogues took me down.
CCing is a general term in games for Crowd Control. You can get more specific with Hard CC (Stuns, knock ups, stuff that prevents you from doing ANYTHING) and Soft CC (Silences, slows, stuff that just stops you from doing some actions.)
In this game however silence is almost like a Hard CC can auto attack or run.. just walk away very slowly.
Seriously you can tell when someone only cares about doing the most damage as opposed to playing well sometimes it just starts a friendly competition when someone pipes up "hey im doing the most damage!"
I don't know about most people but my main concerns are with PvP. I could care less about PvE damage.
Firstly, pve who cares.
Secondly , you aoe trash brilliantly congrats. Single target a rogue 1k under you would eat your breakfast.
PVP is where most of the GWF rage is at.. and its justified.. pve is really of no consequence as most instances are so easy u can do them with any compilation. as long as u have a decent cleric.
Pretty sure our class should be renamed, GTF great trash fighter.
Leveling - perfect, I enjoin seeing my character actualy developing and evolving, from simple guy who knows cople of sword swinging to a spacemarine man of.... avalence of steel
gwf's - well played, on-the-ball gwf's taht know how to round up and deal with adds or be teh boss tank depending on composition - can make or break a pug, especially with the bloody queue gives you TWO ROGUES who are USELESS on most boss fights outside of pew pew'ng the boss.
so you are able to out dps a rogue when a ton of mobs are around. why not just cc them (CW) and focus the boss, once again there is no point to a GWF at all. I could be wrong but name one boss fight were the mobs cant be cc, I would rather cc mobs and have the dps focus on the boss any day.
GWF cant tank at all because their agro sucks, they cant dps single target ( about 1/5 of a rogues ), they cant CC at all they have craptacular snare/roots. if they had some knockbacks that also root/snare, then you might can find a place for them. As of now any class is much better at everything that a GWF can do, making it pointless to bring them at all.
are you not 60 or something or do you just not do any epic dungeons....ever?
theorycraft more, live in your head it does you good. You have clearly never done a t2 dungeon.
i dont need to explain more except that this guy is a moron
do excellent in pvp. Rogues are frustrating
p.s. sry for bad english.
Forsaken, your tips and build working awesome, roar is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in terms of filling AC. Thanks you for your efforts and work
no problemo
This isn't really a good argument. The fact that a class becomes useful and necessary at high level does not make it alright for them to be underpowered at low level. "Well, just keep investing time and it will pay off later." Isn't a good way to design your classes.
just because you played some other video game does not make you capable of passing judgement on this one. l2p
If your in a run with a non idiot CW, about 50/50 in my experience, where the mobs stay relatively grouped up, you will wreck stuff. As for the single damage, I do not do what a rogue does, but that is not my role is it? In PvP I kill rogues one on one all the time, it mostly depends on who gets the jump. If I stand around and let them gank me sure, being at 50% life before I can use an encounter is a loss. But when I can smack them with a flourish and IDBS to open, they usually cannot recover from that. Same for a CW. It all comes down to who gets the jump. There have even been some times where I take on two, say a GF and DC and kill them both by myself. It all really depends on the players and how the battle unfolds, IMO there is not a whole lot wrong with our damage.
Now adding a block feature to Reaping Strike while it charges up, that is indeed needed. As well as some real threat mechanics in the Sentinel tree, *cough* taunts *cough*. But really the class is not as broken as some make it out to be. Granted I need to run epics yet but I think if I am in the right kind of group I will do well enough to be wanted in groups.
Edit: Oh and yes, a completely viable tactic is to wade into the other group, get off an encounter or two, then sprint out. Many times you will get them focusing on you and then your other players can go in on them with impunity. Call it a feint offensive if you will. It also many times gets them chasing you and lets your group pick them off one by one, or at times forces the other team to back up off the point and allows your team to move in and dominate it.
So apparently you have to be a "MMO God" to be allowed an entirely valid opinion, or to provide feedback to a game in BETA. The concerns raised by Pyrsarashi are entirely valid GWF's are the worst to level the CW outshines it in every way possible late game in terms of AOE Dps. Now i know you are going to say they are DPS/off-Tank, the issue with this being that unless you spec Sent you can't hold threat worth spit and if you spec sent your dps is trash. Even speced and a sentinel Your next to worthless as a CW or even a second GF would peel better. but that is beside the point lets get back to this "who are you to say classes should be 'evenly useful'?" well captain high horse if the class can't preform a role better than anyone else it becomes useless thusly it should not be run in any competitive level this in turn makes the class BROKEN those original MMO's you refer to (since you did not name any i can't cite any example sadly) did however provide useful roles for that class in the endgame for example the priest in WoW was a pain to level solo back in vanilla as a healer. The difference being that Priests were a rewarding class endgame with a clear role and competitive performance with in it. Unlike the GWF which in my opinion requires work. Deal with it i have an opinion i don't need to be an MMO god to have a valid complaint with a class.
talk to the devs not to me. and im not reading that wall of text
additionally, idgaf i dominate in pvp and pve, so yours is a l2p issue
Ill use less words you can understand GWF in PvE does nothing special or better than anyone else thus is in need of a work over, you however can't be fixed I'm afraid you will always be a condescending arsehat
My biggest concern is that the class relies too heavily on "Slam" and "Unstoppable" for any kind of less than mediocre damage, and these abilities are not 100% player controlled. This leaves the class with few options, especially in PvP.
Destroyer is great for PvE due to the masses of thrash, which helps built determination, but insignificant in PvP. The most viable spec in PvP is properly a deep dip into Sentinel for defence and abit in Instigator for the added stun to Flourish. Well my intuition tells me, that it feels like you need to use feats to get abilities that the class should have had from level 1.
It still lacks that semi-automatic 50% melee snare, that has proven in countless games before this, is the bread and butter of any melee dps. If they added that along 50-100% increase to Sure strike I think it would feel like a GWF and not the "GTF"