Some players have other responsibilities that take up their time. They play the game for a few hours here or there to unwind.
This is why stuff can also be bought from the store. People with a lot of time can skip this, people who have jobs and such have the option to hand over a few bucks now and then. It's not a charity project.
But I do agree that respecs should be free, and I have been saying that since beta (when they cost 500 instead of 600 Zen). I like the idea with the 7 coins. Sounds like a good compromise and would still be long enough to make people buy respec tokens (or wards instead).
I do like the OP's idea. Very clever, actually. Even if it were a chance to have one of the tokens in the box at the end of 7 days would be more than we have now. If they lowered the price of the respeccing to 100 Zen per, it might not be as much as a teeth-grinding issue to many, as people could grind that AD more readily to convert to Zen, but it would still take time.
Requiring someone to be dedicated enough to log in 7 days in a row to respec would be very nice, and those that want to do it more often can pay the Zen.
Free respec would only make choices meaningless. This game is supposed to be at the very least inspired by D&D, and there is no respec there.
And before you pretend to know anything more about d&d, you have to roll dice too, and there is no feat tree to build. Such in invalid moot point, it's not even funny.
the last half of your post confirms your mindset, "anyone that has anything to say about the RL money cost of respecing, or the time cost of respec-ing is just a whiner. They are also the same people who say - I have a real life, a job, and real responsibilities to play a game 24/7 like you when it comes to other aspects. so in this case we are hoping for a utopian ecconomy - IRL - "the great recession" that everyone's full time job is making them 150k a year + and not the estimated 42k avg. which of about a 1/3 goes to taxes. "I just go to the store and buy it."
The time cost and frustration of getting enough A-D to respec feats solely, and not powers, through things like daily queues where you might be forced into a group that cannot kill the last boss-either because your group composition is wrong or you cannot replace anyone that gives up, or is just so bad you want to replace them. I really hope they make a "healbot" for some of these clerics soon - because most of them can't keep on eye on much. But ya anyway the frustrations when you do kill a boss, FINALLY and someone that cannot equip or is obviously not going to use a piece of loot you would - wins it.
How long does it take you to complete all your daily quests?
from 20-30 - 30-40 40-50 and 50-60?
If I played about 5-6 hours - including the queue and more than likely problems in groups I think I could respec in about a weeks time or - 35 to 42 hours. (about a "normal" full time work week) So this game is a full time job? On one Character. Not level cap yet, but I am assuming .. at level cap/60 the cost is A LOT more than I think 45k for me right now.
Maybe I should buy keys! maybe I could get AD from idols and still not be able to change powers.
60cw 51tr 16dc 5gf
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blazingfistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well, you do get a blue ward for 7 celestial coins, which costs 1000 Zen in the store. A Respec token is only 600 Zen. I think this would be a good idea, actually. Seven days for one respec is a pretty long time, and you wouldn't be able to get something else that week, like said blue ward.
No, you have a *chance* at a blue ward. Most of the time you get a preservation ward with a value of 10 Zen in the store.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
D&D is an idea set on the wellspring of imaginative exploration and adventure. I cannot even attempt this exploration of my character - on one character, let alone one of each class. If I stay with the game I will have one of each class.EDIT *without paying a lot of time or money for it. BTW time is money.*EDIT I will pay for slots, I will pay for bags, I will pay for bank space, and I will pay for repecs - but not at the rates currently. Nor with the state of "open beta" currently i.e. many aspects that are not working as the should be. There's no denying there are issues,
IT"S OPEN BETA!?!?!? OMG!!!!
stop whining right?
Stop whining that nothing can be wrong or broken in open beta, including prices of broken things.
respecs are hardly needed although a few are of "use" when learning.
I agree they should have another form, such as 10-20gold, or a decent bit of ardent coins is a good idea. moer than 7 though.
you want respecs to hurt not be free, more so when they have a cash value. 30 or so is certainly more than reasonable - remember the best way to respec is to reroll before you already invested the gear.
Why exactly should repeccing being a massive inconvenience? All it does is punish unknowledgeable players for mistakes, and completely demote the thought of experimentation. I never understood why people think it's a good idea to offer players (even new ones) significant options that can severely hinder or improve your characters performance, but then make fixing choice-mistakes an extreme inconvenience. It's stupidity.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
*Actual screenshot taken in game.
IGN: Relek
Server: Lost City
PVE Is for Cowards b:surrender
PVP is for the Cool people b:cool
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dtrain69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I also think it's a good idea. But make it 10 celestial coins to make it easier on the interface, and also because the Faerunian calendar measures time in tendays rather than weeks.
D&D is an idea set on the wellspring of imaginative exploration and adventure. I cannot even attempt this exploration of my character - on one character, let alone one of each class. If I stay with the game I will have one of each class.EDIT *without paying a lot of time or money for it. BTW time is money.*EDIT I will pay for slots, I will pay for bags, I will pay for bank space, and I will pay for repecs - but not at the rates currently. Nor with the state of "open beta" currently i.e. many aspects that are not working as the should be. There's no denying there are issues,
IT"S OPEN BETA!?!?!? OMG!!!!
stop whining right?
Stop whining that nothing can be wrong or broken in open beta, including prices of broken things.
They don't understand whining is what forums are for. They are basically saying "let's sweep this under the rug and forget about it". No. If no one brings up these issues then PWI will pretend that there are none and keep doing wrong. If you disagree then post here and explain why you don't agree and then leave, or stay and debate if you have anything to bring to the table. You are not in the majority here and calling people "whiners" will get you nowhere.
Take away all of the free-to-players and see how fast this game gets run into the ground. While it may be the founder's and cash shop buyers who keep the game funded, without the free-to-players to populate and run the economy and game, it will die the fastest death imaginable. Get rid of the freeloader bull**** mindset. Most people have money and are willing to spend it, they just aren't going to blow $40 on a mount that only goes on one character or pay $6-10 for a respec.
Honestly, I have given them a lot of slack because I love the idea of the game, but between the bull**** bugs which is actually Cryptic's fault(this is not a beta, it's a full launch, don't even argue it.) and the cash shop **** that PWI has brought down upon us, even worse than any of their other games, I barely want to log-in any more. Either changes happen or this game will sink into mediocrity and low player-base like every other piece of **** PWI game.
I love Cryptic but they picked the wrong publisher this time.
Foundry Name: "Wolframs Last Stand" (@Holythirst)
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
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aveanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
All the talk saying 7 days coins fine, and its ward or respec, so your saying a respec worth 6$ is equal value than a ward worth 10k, or a ward worth 120k?
120k AD =/= 6$
and since the odds of even getting the blue ward are low, its even worse.
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denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
I think 7 Celestial coins would be ideal.
It's enough that it would make a player who wants to respec think very hard about the decision. A week's worth of work to get. Especially if you're sitting on zero coins. If you're not willing to wait a week, then you pay through the nose in AD/Zen.
Why not make it the best way there is.
First respec is free.
Second respec 15 ardent coins, 3rd 30 coins, 4th 45 coints etc up to 100 coins.
That will hurt people who are excesivly not thinking about what they are doing, but will not impact people who did mistake once, because they didnt know much about game mechanics. I seen many people getting confused with some skill/feats terms because they are not explained by the game, why they are punished for being miss/under informed?
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denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
Ardent coins would be too painful. More so than AD/Zen. As it is now... Most players with have to save up for close to a full year to spend their ardent coins on decent rewards.
Why not make it the best way there is.
First respec is free.
Second respec 15 ardent coins, 3rd 30 coins, 4th 45 coints etc up to 100 coins.
That will hurt people who are excesivly not thinking about what they are doing, but will not impact people who did mistake once, because they didnt know much about game mechanics. I seen many people getting confused with some skill/feats terms because they are not explained by the game, why they are punished for being miss/under informed?
Something like a very good idea. I doubt PWE will allow the first one to be free, though, so they are more likely to start at X number of ardent coins.
Ardent coins would be too painful. More so than AD/Zen. As it is now... Most players with have to save up for close to a full year to spend their ardent coins on decent rewards.
I am assuming the OP meant that this is an additional method and you still have the option for AD/ZEN respecs also,
right now I can respec at lvl 38 for like 47k AD (FEATS ONLY) I can purchase a token for $6, or option 3 since this game in modled to push people to buy just about everything, I could purchase 1mil for ONLY $16 AD from a spammer and respec my feats 20 times for the amount of AD I need at current level.
Hmmmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Y50hE5ri8
1 time $6 or 20 times $16. Model to push people to buy stuff, and they just might.
I am almost ready to quit this game already because of the unrealistic time and or money cost to respec.I have already leveled 1 control wizard to 26 and another to 18 just to have a pvp and a pve spec.I don't mind spending money on a game.but I will not spend $5 or $6 or whatever it is every couple levels to respec. this needs to change or alot of us will just leave and that will be that.
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omcrossMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people who will argue against reasonable respecs. A mechanic that is so simple and a part of MMOs for over a decade and still people find a way to argue against having fair purchase options (gold, ardent coins, etc). They could have released this game with only one class and the rest $20 a pop/3 mil astral diamonds and we'd have a legion of posters all saying, "Well, you don't have to play other classes. They need to make money somehow."
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited May 2013
You get 60 power points at level 60. It is the least restrictive part of your build. You should only ever need 1 respec - you will be able to afford almost every power.
Respecs are simply not a necessity, least of all necessary once a week.
Feats are much more important to plan carefully, and only require AD to respec.
Furthermore, with current conversion rates, a respec token is only 180k AD, and that price is only going to go down.
You get 60 power points at level 60. It is the least restrictive part of your build. You should only ever need 1 respec - you will be able to afford almost every power.
Respecs are simply not a necessity, least of all necessary once a week.
Feats are much more important to plan carefully, and only require AD to respec.
Furthermore, with current conversion rates, a respec token is only 180k AD, and that price is only going to go down.
Respecs are already more than reasonable.
and you apparently know the perfect build for the way you want to play, and are eliminating everyone under 60.
You only need one class or character to play the game, everything else you should pay for or be able to make lots of AD with No insane time investment. YOLO! You only level once, why allow respecs at all. I mean really /eyeroll. Especially for the stuff that doesn't work right.
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denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
It needs to be practically free for it to be enjoyable. You can't fully enjoy both pvp and pve otherwise.
That's a load of bull. There should always be the aspect of carefully making decisions. Being able to wantonly change at a moment's notice benefits nobody but the FoTM number cruncher. Which is one of the single most hangups in MMOs. Just like combat parsers.
I am almost ready to quit this game already because of the unrealistic time and or money cost to respec.I have already leveled 1 control wizard to 26 and another to 18 just to have a pvp and a pve spec.I don't mind spending money on a game.but I will not spend $5 or $6 or whatever it is every couple levels to respec. this needs to change or alot of us will just leave and that will be that.
This pretty much illustrates why the respec cost is fine.
Why in the world do you need to respec every couple of levels? I guarantee it's not because you have an unplayable character. Clearly, you enjoy tweaking your character, but it's not a necessity - it's a luxury. Charging for luxuries is what everyone insists the F2P model should be about.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I recently reached max level on a cleric of mine, and during the last few points into my talent tree, I ended up putting my points into talents that sounded much more appealing (I chose Hammer of Fate over Astral Shield) and now there is no way for me to change this without giving them money.
I have done surveys, and earning 600 zen through surveys is a hassle, and very unresponsive. You end up doing far more than the required for 600 zen just to reach the 600 mark you want.
This game is also in beta. Why are they pushing the cash shop so hard? Why not just let us mess around and test the game? There's no need to charge us actual money for this, especially before the game leaves beta.
Comments
Rofl
Just.. rofl
Sure you honestly don't NEED to respec for min/maxed builds. The ability to do so is a nice luxury.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is why stuff can also be bought from the store. People with a lot of time can skip this, people who have jobs and such have the option to hand over a few bucks now and then. It's not a charity project.
But I do agree that respecs should be free, and I have been saying that since beta (when they cost 500 instead of 600 Zen). I like the idea with the 7 coins. Sounds like a good compromise and would still be long enough to make people buy respec tokens (or wards instead).
Requiring someone to be dedicated enough to log in 7 days in a row to respec would be very nice, and those that want to do it more often can pay the Zen.
the last half of your post confirms your mindset, "anyone that has anything to say about the RL money cost of respecing, or the time cost of respec-ing is just a whiner. They are also the same people who say - I have a real life, a job, and real responsibilities to play a game 24/7 like you when it comes to other aspects. so in this case we are hoping for a utopian ecconomy - IRL - "the great recession" that everyone's full time job is making them 150k a year + and not the estimated 42k avg. which of about a 1/3 goes to taxes. "I just go to the store and buy it."
The time cost and frustration of getting enough A-D to respec feats solely, and not powers, through things like daily queues where you might be forced into a group that cannot kill the last boss-either because your group composition is wrong or you cannot replace anyone that gives up, or is just so bad you want to replace them. I really hope they make a "healbot" for some of these clerics soon - because most of them can't keep on eye on much. But ya anyway the frustrations when you do kill a boss, FINALLY and someone that cannot equip or is obviously not going to use a piece of loot you would - wins it.
How long does it take you to complete all your daily quests?
from 20-30 - 30-40 40-50 and 50-60?
If I played about 5-6 hours - including the queue and more than likely problems in groups I think I could respec in about a weeks time or - 35 to 42 hours. (about a "normal" full time work week) So this game is a full time job? On one Character. Not level cap yet, but I am assuming .. at level cap/60 the cost is A LOT more than I think 45k for me right now.
Maybe I should buy keys! maybe I could get AD from idols and still not be able to change powers.
No, you have a *chance* at a blue ward. Most of the time you get a preservation ward with a value of 10 Zen in the store.
IT"S OPEN BETA!?!?!? OMG!!!!
stop whining right?
Stop whining that nothing can be wrong or broken in open beta, including prices of broken things.
Why exactly should repeccing being a massive inconvenience? All it does is punish unknowledgeable players for mistakes, and completely demote the thought of experimentation. I never understood why people think it's a good idea to offer players (even new ones) significant options that can severely hinder or improve your characters performance, but then make fixing choice-mistakes an extreme inconvenience. It's stupidity.
*Actual screenshot taken in game.
IGN: Relek
Server: Lost City
PVE Is for Cowards b:surrender
PVP is for the Cool people b:cool
Good idea. A week between specs is enough time to work out if you want to keep it or not, Great idea.
Testing different especs in a Open Beta is a luxury now.
Fanboys...
They don't understand whining is what forums are for. They are basically saying "let's sweep this under the rug and forget about it". No. If no one brings up these issues then PWI will pretend that there are none and keep doing wrong. If you disagree then post here and explain why you don't agree and then leave, or stay and debate if you have anything to bring to the table. You are not in the majority here and calling people "whiners" will get you nowhere.
Take away all of the free-to-players and see how fast this game gets run into the ground. While it may be the founder's and cash shop buyers who keep the game funded, without the free-to-players to populate and run the economy and game, it will die the fastest death imaginable. Get rid of the freeloader bull**** mindset. Most people have money and are willing to spend it, they just aren't going to blow $40 on a mount that only goes on one character or pay $6-10 for a respec.
Honestly, I have given them a lot of slack because I love the idea of the game, but between the bull**** bugs which is actually Cryptic's fault(this is not a beta, it's a full launch, don't even argue it.) and the cash shop **** that PWI has brought down upon us, even worse than any of their other games, I barely want to log-in any more. Either changes happen or this game will sink into mediocrity and low player-base like every other piece of **** PWI game.
I love Cryptic but they picked the wrong publisher this time.
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
120k AD =/= 6$
and since the odds of even getting the blue ward are low, its even worse.
It's enough that it would make a player who wants to respec think very hard about the decision. A week's worth of work to get. Especially if you're sitting on zero coins. If you're not willing to wait a week, then you pay through the nose in AD/Zen.
First respec is free.
Second respec 15 ardent coins, 3rd 30 coins, 4th 45 coints etc up to 100 coins.
That will hurt people who are excesivly not thinking about what they are doing, but will not impact people who did mistake once, because they didnt know much about game mechanics. I seen many people getting confused with some skill/feats terms because they are not explained by the game, why they are punished for being miss/under informed?
Something like a very good idea. I doubt PWE will allow the first one to be free, though, so they are more likely to start at X number of ardent coins.
I am assuming the OP meant that this is an additional method and you still have the option for AD/ZEN respecs also,
600 zen for a respec should be THE luxury, not A luxury.
Simple put, dropping 240k AD or $6 for a respec would be for instant convenience, it shouldn't be the only way to get it.
And I'm not saying respecs are a luxury, because they aren't. Not in MMO's like this.
7 Celestial Coins.
20-50 gold.
A weekly quest that requires epic dungeons or something.
Etc.
Hmmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Y50hE5ri8
1 time $6 or 20 times $16. Model to push people to buy stuff, and they just might.
Respecs are simply not a necessity, least of all necessary once a week.
Feats are much more important to plan carefully, and only require AD to respec.
Furthermore, with current conversion rates, a respec token is only 180k AD, and that price is only going to go down.
Respecs are already more than reasonable.
and you apparently know the perfect build for the way you want to play, and are eliminating everyone under 60.
You only need one class or character to play the game, everything else you should pay for or be able to make lots of AD with No insane time investment. YOLO! You only level once, why allow respecs at all. I mean really /eyeroll. Especially for the stuff that doesn't work right.
That's a load of bull. There should always be the aspect of carefully making decisions. Being able to wantonly change at a moment's notice benefits nobody but the FoTM number cruncher. Which is one of the single most hangups in MMOs. Just like combat parsers.
This pretty much illustrates why the respec cost is fine.
Why in the world do you need to respec every couple of levels? I guarantee it's not because you have an unplayable character. Clearly, you enjoy tweaking your character, but it's not a necessity - it's a luxury. Charging for luxuries is what everyone insists the F2P model should be about.
I have done surveys, and earning 600 zen through surveys is a hassle, and very unresponsive. You end up doing far more than the required for 600 zen just to reach the 600 mark you want.
This game is also in beta. Why are they pushing the cash shop so hard? Why not just let us mess around and test the game? There's no need to charge us actual money for this, especially before the game leaves beta.