That's a load of bull. There should always be the aspect of carefully making decisions. Being able to wantonly change at a moment's notice benefits nobody but the FoTM number cruncher. Which is one of the single most hangups in MMOs. Just like combat parsers.
How does that even affect you? I've never played an MMO and said to myself, "****, if only people were slower to figure out what works best for their class and playstyle, then we'd really have something going here."
Gold is fine, or even 100 zen, or 7 coins, or 100,000 AD. Whatever, also I would like to test out respecs for an hour or two before they are set in stone...
What possible argument could you make to convince this company that they shouldn't milk this cow for all it's worth?
It's not like people aren't willing to pay. Cryptic/PWE are making money hand over fist.
-Travail.
Every player is going to have to respec at some point, but not every player is going to be willing to pay 600 Zen or whatever it is.
Therefore if PWE/Cryptic would like to keep as many of their players playing happily, (being able to respec will make players happy) PWE/Cryptic will need to lower the price of respec or offer alternative methods of respeccing.
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loverboyjetMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
except that you can't respec your powers with AD can you?
You know you can exchange the AD so you get the full respec. The Feat Respec is what? 150k AD? the current Zen exchange rate is what? 325? you can basically get a full respec with 325k AD...
A game that has both PVP and PVE needs to allow at least 2 permanent specs. Barring that, one needs to be able to respec at a reasonable cost if they want to have legit specs for pvp premades or endgame (laughable word to use for this game) pve.
Respec cost is fine as it is. You guys are crying for free respecs via invoking via Celestial Coins which hardly takes any effort at all.
A respec token from the Zen store is 600 zen or via the Zen Exchange costs approx. 205K based on a rate of 1 zen/342 AD, today's rate. Also, keep in mind that the zen/AD rate will continue to drop and stabilize; maybe in the 200K+ range, so the cost will lower as you get more zen per AD.
After collecting 7 Celestial coins, sell your coalescent ward, value in the range of 120+/- K AD. You can easily make up the 85K AD from selling loot you don't need. Are you guys saying you can't make a measly 85K in one week, even with casual play time? So, a respec is affordable and doesn't take much. Also, since a coalescent ward isn't guaranteed from that coffer, use your alts or buy some more character slots to farm those coalescent wards.
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devianthereticMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Or ya know...could do like STO, and CO but without the "Gold" status requirement... or some other games... gonna list options:
1.)
When you hit max level, or a certain point in the story, You EARN a respec token for all that hard work and the company semi-realizing "Maybe we should give them a treat they'll enjoy". The one token forces you to plan what you want since you now know your **** ups, miss-clicks, w/e you call them. right theirs enough of a reason to say the prices are manageable cause they gave you your first one for free after reaching a certain point in their product.
2.) might be familiar to some
Legit, server registered, game play for X amount of days and hours which will reward you with things. I.E: play 50 days, get 20,000 AD (Thats a good sum of a feat respect for a higher level character tallied, or the gear they wanted done. for lower levels, that a respec and a half) 100 days: Free Feat respect 150: x2-x3 Invocation reward/buff limit tokens (say...5 pack) 200 days: free respec!
3.) Go like CO bro...add a **** trainer to the game for each class, give the player the ability to refund powers or feats for absurd amounts of gold depending on your level like in CO, I'm only lvl 35 and a game purchased redo costs me...oh god Idk 300g+? took me 2 months of straight grinding to get enough sought after items to earn that up.
4.)Consistent Discounts on a respec...like every other month a respec token is only 50% of its asking price and an ingame feat respect is 30% deduction on AD cost.
those are just my ideas~ no need to rant and rave about them just simple comments and thoughts ^^
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I like this idea. Its something I can get once a week if I need it really badly.
So wait now the complaint isn't that it costs cash to buy a token but that it is so expensive in game you might as well buy the token?
I thought the complaint was that you could only buy the token to respec which isn't true. Now your moving that goal and stating that just because it costs a small amount of AD that is close to the AD to buy the Zen for a token that your complaint is still valid? Really?
I only gave my self 50K of the guardian starting AD and have spent 271K on a phoera and probably another 30 - 40K on scrolls, enchantments and the like, and I still have almost 300K AD. All that without trying to make AD. So really ... 180K is too expensive to pay in game currency to respec feats?
You sir, are either a liar, a troll, under level 60, a cheater/exploiter or a combination of two or more of these. Endgame, after level 60, requires you to spend obscene numbers of AD/gold in order to enchant armor and just keep a decent amount of potions/kits in your inventory. Go aquire a rank 9 or 10 enchant that is worth a **** and that 300k AD you have is worthless because you'll need closer to 2-3million AD, for ONE enchant.
Also side note, from what I've been reading here, ALOT of these folks can't read. The suggestion was CELESTIAL tokens, NOT ardent tokens. Celestial tokens are the ones that vanish if you miss logging in to pray for a day and you can only have 7 of them at a time. Using them to buy a respect token OR a shot at wards seems more than fair. I really hope cryptic take note of this thread as it's something that would make gameplay a little more enjoyable for their entire playerbase.
If you can't be constructive in your criticism, go back to world-of-whiners.
I can't believe people are actually arguing that you shouldn't be able to alter something as simple as spec without paying cash, where is dual spec? tri spec?
Who seriously wants to pay 6$ to respec every few hours depending if you're pvping, pve'ing, or in a dual class setup or not? Jesus christ...face palm.
If you're really so willing to throw money at something menial I've got some great beach front property in Colorado for you.
It requires you to have logged in for 7 days. It encourages and rewards people for logging into the game.
Respecs shouldn't be about cost. There's plenty of other things built into the game that does that already. The game should encourage experimentation and getting people to log in.
This request accomplishes both things.
When players are logged in and happy with their character, they are more inclined to spend money on other things. If they are unhappy with their character build and have to pay real money to change, they are less inclined to spend money on anything at all. Either that or just say screw it and make a new character/account.
1 Week is long enough to wait for a respec, it should be 7 coins.
You're giving up wards for that.
I agree completely.
The AD cost of respeccing feats is very, very high---exchange rate value puts it at nearly half of a full respec in zen value. The zen value of a respec is over five bucks.
Things happen in games. Tooltips can never be clear enough for everyone. Abilities change in function, or do not function as a player expects. Demographics in end game dictate specs that wildly vary from what a person might use while levelling up.
In the end, a respec is a choice to not "do over" an entire character from scratch. Fifteen years ago any price to respec might have seemed ok, but one evolution that gaming has made is the understanding that players appreciate, and even prefer, the opportunity to do it over again without it being overly punitive.
In my opinion, the current rates, both in AD for feat respec and zen for full respecs, is overly punitive. These numbers seem fine(and I've even used respecs on two occasions) in STO, but overall character spec is a more dynamic and personal thing in this or any fantasy game, but pricing is the same.
This is beta, a beta riddled with bugs and broken feats and stats not even properly showing their effects at character creation, and people want this to cost anything...? During a BETA, as the devs themselves call it? Idiocy.
Should be free until launch, as we do the work of identifying all their screwups for them. After "official launch", sure, I'd be okay with it costing... gold. Or minor AD costs. Not much, not Zen. For a hundred reasons.
What gets me is the people talking about "OMG 7 whole days to get 7 whole coins!" like it's some sort of difficult task. It's a simple, standard, daily login bonus mechanic. Relatively trivial to do. (Which is why the enchant box you get at the end has high chance to just be a single green Rank 4 enchant and a green Ward. Close to valueless, honestly..... I've stopped doing it, because I find the 5-day crafting box more valuable - over the last month, with multiple alts, I've not seen a blue ward.)
You're never going to get a 600 zen respec for a mere 7 celestials. (If they did, it would be a low drop chance in a random supply box).
Comparing the value of things in the Ardent Coin shop (like 15 days for a dye pack - maybe a couple hundred zen; or 100 days for a reskin of the basic 500 zen horse), the suggested 60-100 Ardents is closer to realistic.
while I haven't minded buying the respecs I have bought from the CS. This idea seems fair to me much more fair then using the in game gold that people have been tossing around. if you really want that respec you in a way have to work for it and prove you want it buy logging in. However, they could give the CC option and still leave CS option for the ones who want the respec now and don't want to wait 7 days then they have to pay for it
In general, expecting people to pay cash for respecs during something that is being claimed to be a beta is pretty bad practice. Like, "What are you thinking!?" practice.
As others have already mentioned, tons of my powers and feats (as a DC) are bugged and/or have tooltips that flat-out lie about their functionality. Trial and error (and reading others' trial and error) is indeed the only way we can find this out. There isn't even a single free respec when you reach level (whatever) out of consideration for the fact this is a beta.
And it does discourage me from spending more money on the game. (So far I've only spent $5 USD, which I think isn't unreasonable at all for the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of it, even if it were to shut down tomorrow.) Before I invest more, I want to feel comfortable that I'm not just sinking money into a publisher's wallet that doesn't intend on putting sufficient (and intelligently allocated) resources back into the game.
Overall, the cash-shop emphasis and lack of rapid attention and addressing of major gamebreaking bugs make me skeptical about the life expectancy of this game, which is a pity, because the basics of its gameplay are so lovely, and I'd hate to see the game go the way of the dodo just because the publisher never intended it to be anything more than a minor cash grab - even if it turned out to be a sleeper hit (which it already has).
p.s.: I love the celestial coin idea.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is not feasible for a casual player. Sure you can theoretically get everything in this game for free, but only if you can spend 40 hours a week playing a video game or be willing to wait 2 or three months just to try out a different power. Some players have other responsibilities that take up their time. They play the game for a few hours here or there to unwind.
A casual doesn't need min/maxing. Also, it's like every game - hardcore gamers play, casuals pay.
Respec cost is fine as it is. You guys are crying for free respecs via invoking via Celestial Coins which hardly takes any effort at all.
A respec token from the Zen store is 600 zen or via the Zen Exchange costs approx. 205K based on a rate of 1 zen/342 AD, today's rate. Also, keep in mind that the zen/AD rate will continue to drop and stabilize; maybe in the 200K+ range, so the cost will lower as you get more zen per AD.
After collecting 7 Celestial coins, sell your coalescent ward, value in the range of 120+/- K AD. You can easily make up the 85K AD from selling loot you don't need. Are you guys saying you can't make a measly 85K in one week, even with casual play time? So, a respec is affordable and doesn't take much. Also, since a coalescent ward isn't guaranteed from that coffer, use your alts or buy some more character slots to farm those coalescent wards.
Typing in a credit card number takes even less effort.
I don't see the issue with having other ways to pay either. I don't understand why some players think $6 for a respec, in a game that's buggy, and incomplete, is fine. There aren't enough ways to earn ad yet, beyond getting loot drops. And, for someone like me, getting loot drops that actually sell is rare. Running dungeon delves again and again, I have yet to get a good drop. Many times every drop is a blue, and maybe a purple that will sell for 2k ad. Yes, the chest drops blues as well.
Also, some classes aren't viable in dungeons, according to many players. Clerics, rogues and wizards will get a lot of drops, just from the group makeup. Or, you can farm mad dragon DD and hope for a helm, depending on class.
In general, expecting people to pay cash for respecs during something that is being claimed to be a beta is pretty bad practice. Like, "What are you thinking!?" practice.
Heh
They insist this is a beta. That means we are beta testers; not people playing a live game. And as beta testers, our function here is to hammer on the game and test everything.
So why are they asking for dollars in order to beta test different character builds? That's very strange behavior. If the game were live it would make perfect sense. But if the game is in beta as they say then this is very odd indeed.
The OP's suggestion is a good one. In fact, it's a great one; one of the few truly good ideas to grace the forum. Logging in for seven consecutive days in order to accumulate the required tokens and then choosing to spend them on a respec rather than a potentially useful or profitable item is an excellent way to regulate the ease and frequency with which one would resepc. It is as close to a perfect balance of convenience and consequence as one might achieve.
Unfortunately it's very unlikely to happen because there is no micro-transaction involved, which after all is the sole purpose of micro-transaction games.
What is interesting is how so many people selectively insist the game is in beta for free respecs, but other instances say, "No, it's a soft launch. Game is already LIVE and is only beta in name. It's a final release when cash shop is involved."
What is interesting is how so many people selectively insist the game is in beta for free respecs, but other instances say, "No, it's a soft launch. Game is already LIVE and is only beta in name. It's a final release when cash shop is involved."
What is interesting is how people constantly derail posts in what can only be attempts to devalue the merit of the concerns voiced.
If some call it beta and others dont is an "argument" utterly irrelevant here?
Personally I would call this a soft launch, sneaky and cheesy tactic from Cryptic/PW by calling it beta, but the fact of the matter is that the companies themselves call this "Open Beta", and STILL won't give free respecs. THAT'S the issue.
I've seen you around abit, and recall you more or less defending the companies behind this game (usually with little success), and I get that you probably like it and get tired of people bashing it, but just derailing other's posts and not even admitting to blatantly obvious schemes, sneaky tactics, utter disrespect and disregard to their customers - or pure laziness if you will - is kind of sad, and only accomplishes one thing; deepening the problem, not being part of the solution.
The more people that voice their disagreement or even nerdrage, on forums, twitter, facebook and with their wallets, the greater chance the playerbase have to actually help change this game for the better - if there even is a chance.
Or you could go down the fanboi route, put blinders on, derail or demean all legitimate concerns voiced here, and just defend Cryptic/PW in absurdum, only to log on one day in X months and find yourself alone in Protector's Conclave, save for the bots and gold spammers.
I played WoW for some years and there you can respec with low in-game currency. Its an easy thing to do and give the players a solid feel for what they like, because they can figure out how they want to play. It doesnt bring the the game down and ppl don't complain about it.
I think that Cryptic has a nice game with fun combat and i like the flow of questing and leveling. But the way they put the Zen-store in my face every time i open up a window and things like respec that cost real money did make me quit the game a few days ago. The game gave me the gut-feeling that i am not more then a wallet or milk cow.
I wouldn't have quit if they where more focused on bag-space, cosmetics and other stuff that didnt make that big of an impact at actually playing 'my' game. I am also on of the players that plays one of the 2 broken melee classes. I followed the forums and couldnt find anything that gave me the idea that gameplay and classbalance are #1 on the devs priority list.
So for me the developers are to greedy and i won't continue to support or play this game. I am someone that likes to support any game that i really like to play and is made with a lot of love towards us gamers. This one just doesnt feel good. Its sad.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
How does that even affect you? I've never played an MMO and said to myself, "****, if only people were slower to figure out what works best for their class and playstyle, then we'd really have something going here."
Gold is fine, or even 100 zen, or 7 coins, or 100,000 AD. Whatever, also I would like to test out respecs for an hour or two before they are set in stone...
What possible argument could you make to convince this company that they shouldn't milk this cow for all it's worth?
It's not like people aren't willing to pay. Cryptic/PWE are making money hand over fist.
-Travail.
Every player is going to have to respec at some point, but not every player is going to be willing to pay 600 Zen or whatever it is.
Therefore if PWE/Cryptic would like to keep as many of their players playing happily, (being able to respec will make players happy) PWE/Cryptic will need to lower the price of respec or offer alternative methods of respeccing.
You know you can exchange the AD so you get the full respec. The Feat Respec is what? 150k AD? the current Zen exchange rate is what? 325? you can basically get a full respec with 325k AD...
A respec token from the Zen store is 600 zen or via the Zen Exchange costs approx. 205K based on a rate of 1 zen/342 AD, today's rate. Also, keep in mind that the zen/AD rate will continue to drop and stabilize; maybe in the 200K+ range, so the cost will lower as you get more zen per AD.
After collecting 7 Celestial coins, sell your coalescent ward, value in the range of 120+/- K AD. You can easily make up the 85K AD from selling loot you don't need. Are you guys saying you can't make a measly 85K in one week, even with casual play time? So, a respec is affordable and doesn't take much. Also, since a coalescent ward isn't guaranteed from that coffer, use your alts or buy some more character slots to farm those coalescent wards.
1.)
When you hit max level, or a certain point in the story, You EARN a respec token for all that hard work and the company semi-realizing "Maybe we should give them a treat they'll enjoy". The one token forces you to plan what you want since you now know your **** ups, miss-clicks, w/e you call them. right theirs enough of a reason to say the prices are manageable cause they gave you your first one for free after reaching a certain point in their product.
2.) might be familiar to some
Legit, server registered, game play for X amount of days and hours which will reward you with things. I.E: play 50 days, get 20,000 AD (Thats a good sum of a feat respect for a higher level character tallied, or the gear they wanted done. for lower levels, that a respec and a half) 100 days: Free Feat respect 150: x2-x3 Invocation reward/buff limit tokens (say...5 pack) 200 days: free respec!
3.) Go like CO bro...add a **** trainer to the game for each class, give the player the ability to refund powers or feats for absurd amounts of gold depending on your level like in CO, I'm only lvl 35 and a game purchased redo costs me...oh god Idk 300g+? took me 2 months of straight grinding to get enough sought after items to earn that up.
4.)Consistent Discounts on a respec...like every other month a respec token is only 50% of its asking price and an ingame feat respect is 30% deduction on AD cost.
those are just my ideas~ no need to rant and rave about them just simple comments and thoughts ^^
I vote a free respec token per 250 invocations.
You sir, are either a liar, a troll, under level 60, a cheater/exploiter or a combination of two or more of these. Endgame, after level 60, requires you to spend obscene numbers of AD/gold in order to enchant armor and just keep a decent amount of potions/kits in your inventory. Go aquire a rank 9 or 10 enchant that is worth a **** and that 300k AD you have is worthless because you'll need closer to 2-3million AD, for ONE enchant.
Also side note, from what I've been reading here, ALOT of these folks can't read. The suggestion was CELESTIAL tokens, NOT ardent tokens. Celestial tokens are the ones that vanish if you miss logging in to pray for a day and you can only have 7 of them at a time. Using them to buy a respect token OR a shot at wards seems more than fair. I really hope cryptic take note of this thread as it's something that would make gameplay a little more enjoyable for their entire playerbase.
Who seriously wants to pay 6$ to respec every few hours depending if you're pvping, pve'ing, or in a dual class setup or not? Jesus christ...face palm.
If you're really so willing to throw money at something menial I've got some great beach front property in Colorado for you.
I agree completely.
The AD cost of respeccing feats is very, very high---exchange rate value puts it at nearly half of a full respec in zen value. The zen value of a respec is over five bucks.
Things happen in games. Tooltips can never be clear enough for everyone. Abilities change in function, or do not function as a player expects. Demographics in end game dictate specs that wildly vary from what a person might use while levelling up.
In the end, a respec is a choice to not "do over" an entire character from scratch. Fifteen years ago any price to respec might have seemed ok, but one evolution that gaming has made is the understanding that players appreciate, and even prefer, the opportunity to do it over again without it being overly punitive.
In my opinion, the current rates, both in AD for feat respec and zen for full respecs, is overly punitive. These numbers seem fine(and I've even used respecs on two occasions) in STO, but overall character spec is a more dynamic and personal thing in this or any fantasy game, but pricing is the same.
Should be free until launch, as we do the work of identifying all their screwups for them. After "official launch", sure, I'd be okay with it costing... gold. Or minor AD costs. Not much, not Zen. For a hundred reasons.
You're never going to get a 600 zen respec for a mere 7 celestials. (If they did, it would be a low drop chance in a random supply box).
Comparing the value of things in the Ardent Coin shop (like 15 days for a dye pack - maybe a couple hundred zen; or 100 days for a reskin of the basic 500 zen horse), the suggested 60-100 Ardents is closer to realistic.
+1 for pointing out the blatantly obvious!
Character handle:@skylia120410
(www.gwfnw.weebly.com)
GWF GUIDE SITE: Still being worked on not 60 yet
Divine Misfits (one of the Guild Leaders)(Guild Site Manager)
www.divinemisfits.guildlaunch.com
As others have already mentioned, tons of my powers and feats (as a DC) are bugged and/or have tooltips that flat-out lie about their functionality. Trial and error (and reading others' trial and error) is indeed the only way we can find this out. There isn't even a single free respec when you reach level (whatever) out of consideration for the fact this is a beta.
And it does discourage me from spending more money on the game. (So far I've only spent $5 USD, which I think isn't unreasonable at all for the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of it, even if it were to shut down tomorrow.) Before I invest more, I want to feel comfortable that I'm not just sinking money into a publisher's wallet that doesn't intend on putting sufficient (and intelligently allocated) resources back into the game.
Overall, the cash-shop emphasis and lack of rapid attention and addressing of major gamebreaking bugs make me skeptical about the life expectancy of this game, which is a pity, because the basics of its gameplay are so lovely, and I'd hate to see the game go the way of the dodo just because the publisher never intended it to be anything more than a minor cash grab - even if it turned out to be a sleeper hit (which it already has).
p.s.: I love the celestial coin idea.
Fixed
.....
Typing in a credit card number takes even less effort.
I don't see the issue with having other ways to pay either. I don't understand why some players think $6 for a respec, in a game that's buggy, and incomplete, is fine. There aren't enough ways to earn ad yet, beyond getting loot drops. And, for someone like me, getting loot drops that actually sell is rare. Running dungeon delves again and again, I have yet to get a good drop. Many times every drop is a blue, and maybe a purple that will sell for 2k ad. Yes, the chest drops blues as well.
Also, some classes aren't viable in dungeons, according to many players. Clerics, rogues and wizards will get a lot of drops, just from the group makeup. Or, you can farm mad dragon DD and hope for a helm, depending on class.
Heh
They insist this is a beta. That means we are beta testers; not people playing a live game. And as beta testers, our function here is to hammer on the game and test everything.
So why are they asking for dollars in order to beta test different character builds? That's very strange behavior. If the game were live it would make perfect sense. But if the game is in beta as they say then this is very odd indeed.
The OP's suggestion is a good one. In fact, it's a great one; one of the few truly good ideas to grace the forum. Logging in for seven consecutive days in order to accumulate the required tokens and then choosing to spend them on a respec rather than a potentially useful or profitable item is an excellent way to regulate the ease and frequency with which one would resepc. It is as close to a perfect balance of convenience and consequence as one might achieve.
Unfortunately it's very unlikely to happen because there is no micro-transaction involved, which after all is the sole purpose of micro-transaction games.
What is interesting is how people constantly derail posts in what can only be attempts to devalue the merit of the concerns voiced.
If some call it beta and others dont is an "argument" utterly irrelevant here?
Personally I would call this a soft launch, sneaky and cheesy tactic from Cryptic/PW by calling it beta, but the fact of the matter is that the companies themselves call this "Open Beta", and STILL won't give free respecs. THAT'S the issue.
I've seen you around abit, and recall you more or less defending the companies behind this game (usually with little success), and I get that you probably like it and get tired of people bashing it, but just derailing other's posts and not even admitting to blatantly obvious schemes, sneaky tactics, utter disrespect and disregard to their customers - or pure laziness if you will - is kind of sad, and only accomplishes one thing; deepening the problem, not being part of the solution.
The more people that voice their disagreement or even nerdrage, on forums, twitter, facebook and with their wallets, the greater chance the playerbase have to actually help change this game for the better - if there even is a chance.
Or you could go down the fanboi route, put blinders on, derail or demean all legitimate concerns voiced here, and just defend Cryptic/PW in absurdum, only to log on one day in X months and find yourself alone in Protector's Conclave, save for the bots and gold spammers.
I think that Cryptic has a nice game with fun combat and i like the flow of questing and leveling. But the way they put the Zen-store in my face every time i open up a window and things like respec that cost real money did make me quit the game a few days ago. The game gave me the gut-feeling that i am not more then a wallet or milk cow.
I wouldn't have quit if they where more focused on bag-space, cosmetics and other stuff that didnt make that big of an impact at actually playing 'my' game. I am also on of the players that plays one of the 2 broken melee classes. I followed the forums and couldnt find anything that gave me the idea that gameplay and classbalance are #1 on the devs priority list.
So for me the developers are to greedy and i won't continue to support or play this game. I am someone that likes to support any game that i really like to play and is made with a lot of love towards us gamers. This one just doesnt feel good. Its sad.