test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Neverwinter is Pay to Save Time, Not Pay to Win
divastation
Member Posts: 21 Arc User
Pay to Win is when you can buy something to get an edge over someone else who doesn't have/use the option to pay.
- Every single thing in the cash shop can be acquired without paying a single cent. All it takes is time. You want to get something faster, or not spend the time and effort to get it, you can buy it. How is that different than the guy who farmed for 4 hours and got something?
.
. - There is no advantage any player can get over another exclusively through paying real money. The best they can get is to save some time before getting an item.
.
. - This is no different than the no-lifers playing the game 20 hrs a day and getting top items before the majority of other players - and by the way are still WAY more frequent than any hardcore paying player.
Post edited by divastation on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Pay2Win if and only if:
Player B pays real money and becomes superior to Player A (assuming similar skills) who has infinite in game currency and does not pay real money.
To summarize, if they are equal at the end of the day it is NOT Pay2Win. Most, if not ALL, free to play MMO has some sort of cash shop, (pay for convenience) so do not go around spouting Pay2Win in every free MMO you come across if you are not sane. Some might do this knowing full well that it is NOT Pay2Win in hopes that everything becomes free? This will not happen so give it up. Why? Developers and the such needs an income too. I mean only so much of you are willing to work for no pay.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I have to wait 1 year to farm the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you buy in 5 mins from the cash shop.
You enjoy the new endgame content with the best enchants while I farm that year for the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> lower content.
You are so entitled to the best stuff in the game because you got a fat paycheck and I don't.
It so reeks of fairness.
Which is pretty much where you veer off from pay for convenience into pay to win.
Player A: Goes into the game and gets to max level in a reasonable time, up until now he's more or less equal to player B, he now has reasonable gear for pvp/pve and opens up his wallet and lets loose with his money, he focuses on maxing his enchants and gear/mount and maxes himself as far as the human wallet can take him.
Player B: does the same but is put off by the price of the items, and is more conservative and decides he's going to wait a bit and see if the aspects of the cash shop are imbalancing, he reads on the forums that he can just PLAY to get the stuff but it will take longer, He comes across player A in a pvp match and due to obvious differences gets creamed. not massively but it's a lot harder due to the advantages that player A has, he decides he's better off waiting to gear up via the optional alternative to cash, ONE YEAR LATER. He has successfully closed the gap "slightly" with player A, who has by this point arguably once again leapt ahead in progress via cash and now that initial large gap is insurmountable (not a definite but possible)
discuss.
I am pretty sure, if I paid fora toon with a thunderfury rather than making my own, I'd have unfair advantage, for a very very very long time. And that's what happens with enchants.
I'm doing the wild shake.
-Still managed to die? No problem, buy a resurrect scroll and beat the boss with your wallet
-Frustrated about that 1% chance to fuse runestone? No problem, give us 10 euros and its done.
-Suck too much even with the above 3 options? No problem, just convert 100-200 euros to AD and buy everything from auction house.
Game is pretty fun to play overall, but its blatantly pay to win. Even the worst player in the internet can beat this game with heavy wallet. Therefore any raiding/competetive content will be complete joke if its ever added
People- the point of making a p2w game is that those months and months of grinding to get to the same level as someone who spent cash will get you there right as new, better things are put in game- and the grind is reintroduced. The entire point is to make it so the players who pay will keep paying, and those that don't will not catch up.
But believe what you will- I'll just be here to say I told you so in six months when you've grinded out enough to get a level 30 companion, full top tier enchants and a 110% mount, when level 40 companions, 130% speed mounts and a whole new tier comes out.
Of course- you could just do what sensible people are doing- afk farming glory and selling pvp sets, or ninjaing every item that drops to sell, or using all the tasty exploits we told Cryptic about in alpha and they didn't do anything about until they'd already unbalanced the game.
Cryptic has pretty much told us already how we have to play- either we pay, or we cheat- but legit players are SOL as it goes now. Technically a solid launch, but the economy is already way out of whack due entirely to things that they should have known would happen. Worst part is- unlike many other poor launches, these guys are f2p mmo veterans.
Also, you can get wards from celestial coins.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
You can get a chest, every week if you log on every day once and invocate within the timespan needed which offers a CHANCE that a coalescent ward will be in it.
Please stop making out it is a guarantee'd coalescent. or that you only need ONE of them....
Goodnight.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
lol
10 chars
Where did that formula come from? If it comes from your own definition of "win" then it is frankly speaking pretty worthless an analysis if nobody shares your sentiments. Doesn't the formula also mean that even if the conversion rate was 1 Zen = 5 trillion AD, the game would still be a fair one?
Why is everyone so fixated on the attempting to clearly lay out the definition of "Pay2Win"? Neither attempt from either side will manage to convince a detractor otherwise. I completely understand why people may choose to support the devs and I have no problems with eventually paying for the game, but I think both sides are trying too hard to push a point that will be meaningless in the end.
I love the game because I am very casual a player, but no one should be able to deny the claims that spending real money gives a player a VERY distinct headstart and advantage, and though the gap can technically be closed, the effort required is nigh impossible to sustain. Just having a very fast mount alone allows you to be advantaged significantly PvP (in the lower brackets at least, where no non-payer could have possibly grinded out a Zen mount). Is the game completely pay to win? Maybe, maybe not. But is the way with which the non-payer is discriminated fair? Not quite...
i rest my case
if you dont understand what this is, go look them up...
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Great thing is that since you can tip if you like a quest, a skilled and popular quest creator is going to wind up with a supply of AD which will possibly let them get anything in the game that can be bought that way... including, if I understand correctly, Zen. And that's without any grinding, unless you count the considerable work involved in producing a good quest as a grind
I'm definitely going to be seeing what I can do with that tool... I love the idea that you could get rich in an MMO with REAL crafting, where it's real world skill (level design and writing) that's rewarded, not clicking ability.
^
Speaking as though they didn't READ any of the other posts that addressed this specific issue. See? Anyone can do that too... lol
I made 800k AD in a day spending roughly 75k AD in a single day. If you don't know how to work with the AH, sounds like personal problem bro bro.
You sound like the auction house is mandatory, I wasn't aware this was Neverwinter tycoon: 2013
And no, not everyone wants to, or feels they should have to flip items on the auction house like burgers before the market inevitably goes to pot.
Yep. Everyone who claims it's easy to get AD spends a lot of time 'playing' the auction house. Also notice how they all seem have Guardian or Hero of the North titles meaning that they started with at least 600k AD. "It takes money to make money".
Not to mention people who powerleveled to 60 so that they could start farming PvP and dungeons for gear to sell. You won't get rich if you play NW casually.
Which is also why people made so many variations of "50 ogres" missions. They got paid.
But that isn't a pay2win issue. Those items are just as powerful whether you farm for them in-game or just put in an extra shift at work.
The exchange working both ways means nothing is out of reach to one playing for free. Some of us are just impatient.
I'm guilty of that.
And you had to convey this in a manner that makes you look like a ******* why?
Wards? Earn AD through AH (ohhh yes, PLAY THE AH - it's a part of the game, come on) and then buy the Wards with Zen.
Gear? Like ANY MMO, there will be many who quickly outgear you and will stomp you. The grind exists in both .
Other stuff? Again, it's either possible with easy enough AD acquisition, or a continued grind for Zen.
Basically a system like Neverwinter's eliminates all personal satisfaction except what you personally want to create for yourself.
1) Want to be a leet hero within a week? Pony up allll the cash.
2) Want to be helped along on your month long journey? Spare some dollars, about a month's sub's worth, by design.
3) Want to make it all on your own? It'll take months, but you'll get there! The game is still free.
And then when the next 'tier' of stuff inevitably comes, the first group may or may not continue to P2SaveTime, the second group may or may not P2SaveTime, and the 3rd group may or may not keep playing for free.
You know what? The game is likely balanced so that $60 Founder's Pack is pretty much buying the game and getting treated like you bought it. Then a $15/month keeps you long the endgame at a brisk enough pace.
But you wanna pay more than that? Cool, you have a clear advantage now in how *fast* you get to the top.
You don't want to pay at all? Cool, Cryptic needs you to fill their servers anyway, and you'll be there for at least some weeks longer, trying to catch up.
In PvE, you'll be grinding and not getting any Server Firsts let me tell you that, and in PvP, you'll have to go through the gear grind that... shocker! :O... players have to do anyway in SUBSCRIPTION MMOs.
But a $15/month+$60 should be all that's needed in order to comfortably move along, at least at a casual gamer pace, because you'll still be gaining AD from ~~Dailies + AH (the biggest one) + Foundry Tips~~
All you lose is the satisfaction of being uber leet next to other players.
And you know, many people do NOT care about that Thunderfury legendary you got. They just want to have the stuff that lets them do the endgame, and F2P models like this work for them. It's up to you whether it works for you
Personally, I haven't decided yet. I want to get into endgame and the heroic versions of the dungeons, as well as do every quest, then I'll see. The way I see it, in any F2P system, you're strongly nudged by the game to put SOMETHING (not even $15/month, but even $5 minimum) forward in order to save yourself some pain.
The difference just exists between P2W and P2SaveTime.
P2W = You're a free player, and will NEVER get the stuff a paid player will get.
P2SaveTime = You're a free player, but with time (from weeks to.. yes, months), you'll get to where those paying players got to, at least how they were when you started the grind.
I think I prefer B2P systems the most, because while they have fasttracking elements (Secret World and Guild Wars 2 both have 'boosters', but they're entirely understandable), they also keep things like gear and character enhancements largely OUT of their cash shop.
But all of this is done by Cryptic/PWI in order to first make up for the 'lost box sales' they might have had otherwise ($60+ each player!, at least as possibly determined by them), and then continued profit onwards, as players leave.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Once raids arrive you will be called a total **** for the pitiful dps you deal, right before they kick you. Maybe not literally but you understand the meaning, gear matters in PvE because that too can be a competitive environment.
Of course if you don't mind under performing in every aspect of the game, then sure, it doesn't matter, but don't expect everyone to have the same view.