I take issue with the defense of this seemingly daily maintenance/downtime by claiming that NW is in "OPEN BETA". That is a copout and could not be further from the truth. To be clear I am not complaining about anything here, just offering my opinions gathered with over 25 yrs gaming experience. "OPEN BETA" in today's MMO terms is equivalent to essentially a less hyped, soft launch. It is used to generate more $$ from today's gaming gereration. Companies use the term "OPEN BETA" to piggyback hype off of for the game's true release as well. Most of the game's features are already live and all the transaction mechanisms are 100% functional. That my friends is NOT a beta in the truest sense of the word.
With that said, I try not to be overly critical of the game's faults, technical issues and/or downtimes. I simply wanted to elaborate on the true definition of today's "OPEN BETAs".
25 years of gaming experience? Wow. But what's your open-beta-to-closed-beta ratio? As said in the OP, OB will have issues come up faster than CB simply because of the volume of players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
People who keep bringing up its free 2 play, don't have to spend money on it, or it's still in open beta maint is expected, need slapped in the **** mouth. I don't care if it's free to play. if you enjoy it spend money on it cause they rely on that.. And it's open beta with closed beta problems since PWE got greedy and launched it early. OBT was done in a few weekends? The hell kind of data you going to get from that?
Basically we got a preborn baby with problems and needs doctored up.
~They are Lions, and I am their Shepherd~
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
25 years of gaming experience? Wow. But what's your open-beta-to-closed-beta ratio? As said in the OP, OB will have issues come up faster than CB simply because of the volume of players.
I think your right I think that poster has never played a beta before. If he has I would love to hear which games were that awesome... because I have tested dozens and I have yet to see it.
Maybe you should try a search instead of basing an opinion on a single view point? :P
Well I just started today. Normally before I buy into a game I will go look at the forums. Check the bug pages. Check the patch history to see how often they patch, and what they are making a priority. Read the general forums as it gives me a good idea as to how the community actually feels about the game, it's features, and how mature the community is as a whole.
Well I just started today. Normally before I buy into a game I will go look at the forums. Check the bug pages. Check the patch history to see how often they patch, and what they are making a priority. Read the general forums as it gives me a good idea as to how the community actually feels about the game, it's features, and how mature the community is as a whole.
Thanks for saving me some money. I appriciate it.
So you admit your view is biased... Now all that's left is to search for posts by my username and see that your initial judgement is only partly correct.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
I think these constant maintenance hassles will put off a lot of players. It makes it harder to become attached when you are given regular 'breaks' to play something else. Also, it is common for MMO players to be reluctant to become attached to a game that gets a whiff of failure. MMO players in particular are very cautious, they are hesitant to put time and effort into their characters if the game is going to fail in some way.
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erebus2075Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Your professions don't stop just because the server does. There are severe bugs that are being addressed as fast as Cryptic and PWE can deal to them, which is a good thing. You may not understand this, but bugs will become far more apparent far quicker in open beta than in closed beta simply because of the volume of players.
this is NOT an open beta.
if it was our purchase would be PREORDERS which means full refund would by law be possible becouse the product couldn't have been taken into use (and they refuse to refund which i already tried to get)
another thing is: the issue's right now is that the time they set the maint on is on prime times instead of setting it at night like 3am would be an odd time for both continents to play thereby hitting less people and DONT have maint on a holyday unless its absolutely critical which clearly it wasnt since it was planned, its dev 101.
If anything, the founders should be complaining but - for the most part - we're not. The majority of founders understand that this type of thing is to be expected this early into the beta cycle. If you can't accept that a free game in an open beta state (As much as we all know what OB means with PWE) will have bugs and need a lot of server downtime, then leave or stop acting so entitled.
-Sigh- /calmrant
we are... we are complaining but it doesnt really make any difference now does it -.-
when investing 200€ into a product you at the same time sign your sanity away trying to do whatever you can to believe you did a good investment in the product therefore we are less likely to call it out as a GIANT issue becouse we dont wanna acknowledge that we did a really bad choice and threw away 200€ but if we where given the choice right now, i doubt many would still do it and if we could get the rightfull refund we should be entitled too (given this is called "open beta"=not a finished product=preorder not used product=full refund is entitled) i doubt many people would still be founders...
my words for you is:
stop deluding yourself.. i know it sucks and i am kicking myself for throwing 200€ away on this ****, but look at the reality, we took a bad choice and we are punished for it by bad marketing(this is not just about maints, its about cash shop and the fact the 200€ you used will no where nearly cover what you need to access all features and enjoy the game ot its fullest)
/nyx
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think these constant maintenance hassles will put off a lot of players. It makes it harder to become attached when you are given regular 'breaks' to play something else. Also, it is common for MMO players to be reluctant to become attached to a game that gets a whiff of failure. MMO players in particular are very cautious, they are hesitant to put time and effort into their characters if the game is going to fail in some way.
Sadly, yes. Though, honestly, we'll be likely to get more of the type that understand why the maintenances are occurring and, by extension, less of the complaints :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
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jonas2405Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
and if you read my other post you would know why i called it that.
How much i payed on the other hand is a whole other subject.
Not to mention that for the people who did pay for this is going though the same as i did.
I payed nothing. I won't cuz i'm doing just fine. But i still got my rights to complain. It's F2P but still P2W
If there no complainer's we're how do you think a Mmorpg would turn out? It would end up like ****
Cuz the devs would think everything is allright even though it isn't.
People would slowly begin to pack up their gear and move to the next mmorpg. or Return to what'ever the played before Wow lotro
etc. I'm a big big fanboy of wow but i never ever in my life defended it like this. and worst of all this game just came out as in *Open Beta* even though they still a taking money. Which is no longer a Open beta but a initial release)
Betas get reset / a full game does not.
Simple as that. read before talking
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Try reading the OP again;
His points are still valid. Once they start charging, they should provide satisfying service.
If they actually mean this is beta where things may go wrong, they should not start trying to profit.
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theevildrfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Fact. PWE got greedy and released the game early without doing proper testing, thats why pretty much every day the server either crashes or we have maintenance.
Opinion. Game was tested without lockboxes and level 60 content. I, for one, am glad i dont have to wait for a weekly update to get past irksome bugs.
Fact. PWE lies their face off to you. Emergency maintenance to "ensure" stable performance? right after we just had maintenance? rofl.
Opinion. It is a free to play game. As such we may be provided access to the game or not per the end user agreement (didnt read that did you?). Therefore, saying PWE is lying is slander (by definition).
this is NOT an open beta.
if it was our purchase would be PREORDERS which means full refund would by law be possible becouse the product couldn't have been taken into use (and they refuse to refund which i already tried to get)
No, they would not be pre-orders. Know why? Because there's no paid end-product.
another thing is: the issue's right now is that the time they set the maint on is on prime times instead of setting it at night like 3am would be an odd time for both continents to play thereby hitting less people and DONT have maint on a holyday unless its absolutely critical which clearly it wasnt since it was planned, its dev 101.
They're doing them when they can. They decided to install the network hardware that had just arrived after the 7am maintenance. Reading forum stickies and the team's Twitter feed would tell you as much.
we are... we are complaining but it doesnt really make any difference now does it -.-
when investing 200€ into a product you at the same time sign your sanity away trying to do whatever you can to believe you did a good investment in the product therefore we are less likely to call it out as a GIANT issue becouse we dont wanna acknowledge that we did a really bad choice and threw away 200€ but if we where given the choice right now, i doubt many would still do it and if we could get the rightfull refund we should be entitled too (given this is called "open beta"=not a finished product=preorder not used product=full refund is entitled) i doubt many people would still be founders...
Wikipedia time;
In finance, investment is putting money into something with the expectation of gain, usually over a longer term. [...] Most or all forms of investment involve some form of risk, such as investment in equities, property, and even fixed interest securities which are subject, inter alia, to inflation risk.
my words for you is:
stop deluding yourself.. i know it sucks and i am kicking myself for throwing 200€ away on this ****, but look at the reality, we took a bad choice and we are punished for it by bad marketing(this is not just about maints, its about cash shop and the fact the 200€ you used will no where nearly cover what you need to access all features and enjoy the game ot its fullest)
/nyx
You're clearly outside of the majority of founders I mentioned in the OP.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
Well I just started today. Normally before I buy into a game I will go look at the forums. Check the bug pages. Check the patch history to see how often they patch, and what they are making a priority. Read the general forums as it gives me a good idea as to how the community actually feels about the game, it's features, and how mature the community is as a whole.
Thanks for saving me some money. I appriciate it.
All the QQ aside I suggest you try the game out. You do not have to buy anything to play a F2P game.
Yes the game has a few issues however if you play the game as it was intended... doing quests etc. The game is very solid and honestly one of the more enjoyable games I have played in a LONG time. Here is a small list of things I personally like about the game.
1. All quests are voiced so this adds a lot of depth to the game element.
2. Quest story lines are well written and tie together very nicely... you look forward to the next quest to hear more about the story.
3. PvP while very limited is fun and engaging... though I do agree will probably get old after a few weeks with its current limited scenario.
4. Foundry while I have done very little with this allows for endless adventures... no other game in history allows this level of endless adventures. Now yes there are some gems and not so awesome adventures but as long as there are new Foundries created the potential for something new and engaging is always there.
5. Finally your classic dungeon runs... These start out very easy and slowly get harder and harder. The top level dungeons will challenge even the most seasoned players.
Now I am not saying the game doesn't have issues... far from it. However for long lasting fun and an engaging adventure this game is very solid. If you didn't at least try it you would be at a loss.
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If there no complainer's we're how do you think a Mmorpg would turn out? It would end up like ****
Cuz the devs would think everything is allright even though it isn't.
Unlike some people, the devs have more intelligence than a walnut. They know things are wrong, which is why we have maintenances.
People would slowly begin to pack up their gear and move to the next mmorpg. or Return to what'ever the played before Wow lotro
etc. I'm a big big fanboy of wow but i never ever in my life defended it like this. and worst of all this game just came out as in *Open Beta* even though they still a taking money. Which is no longer a Open beta but a initial release)
I wouldn't complain if I were a kid. 2 houts without playing is no problem. I complain because I am not a kid and I arrived home from work at the exact time the maintenance started.
gg
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I wouldn't complain if I were a kid. 2 houts without playing is no problem. I complain because I am not a kid and I arrived home from work at the exact time the maintenance started.
gg
You may not be a kid, but you're certainly acting childish.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
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erebus2075Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Were you forced to pay? No. Did you voluntarily pay? Yes. You were offered free cake and you chose to pay for it. .
WRONG! I was offered free cake with spit on it. If I wanted cake without spit I had to pay.
So to enjoy it and to say THX for making cake I choose to pay to get cake WHICH is now delayed for no good reason other then really bad planning.
No, they would not be pre-orders. Know why? Because there's no paid end-product. .
Yes you would. Go check what PREORDER means.
RELEASED PRODUCT= END PRODUCT you paid for(everything from there is simply updates to a released product) Amazing you don’t know this and are commenting on mmo’s since both in the eyes of law and of every gamer which have followed the mmo’s at ANY point knows this
They're doing them when they can. They decided to install the network hardware that had just arrived after the 7am maintenance. Reading forum stickies and the team's Twitter feed would tell you as much.
.
Ok let me repeat “YOU DO NOT HAVE MAINT! UNLESS ITS CRITICAL ON A TIME WHERE YOU DIRECTLY BREAK PEOPLE’S PRIME TIME”
Why? Because sht goes wrong and when sht goes wrong you need to have an x hours to fix it, doing it in the middle of prime or high populated time will send your community in a “frenzy” and prevent people who should play from doing so.
There is No reason to do it there, wait till 3-4am and do it here where it statistically prevent as few people as possible from playing. You need to work anyway as the maint guys so do it at a time where its not as big of an issue for the community. Its not rocket science… its basic 101 to running any service.
I just want to say that this is classic cryptic/pwe. The same thing happened in STO. It had a good f2p model and PWE saw dollar signs, that basically what's happened with neverwinter. It has a good core, if they'd give it the effort it deserves it could really be something. I don't see it happening though unfortunately. Saying the game is in early beta and it's expected to have issues is fine. I call it an excuse, what was the excuse for the same thing happening just after STO went f2p? "oh we didn't expect this many people we need new servers"? Why didn't you expect an increase in your player population? Sounds to me like the people who projected the numbers should have been fired instead of the rest of the gaming community having to suffer through login queues, random server shutdowns, emergency maintenance, buggy patches. I know this is not STO I just hope they give the ole college try on this game and don't repeat their mistakes. I'm a huge Neverwinter fan
I payed nothing. I won't cuz i'm doing just fine. But i still got my rights to complain.
You're using a product your don't own, nor have spent any money to even lease/use....but you think you have rights? Again, the level of entitlement is just amazing. Sadly this thought process doesn't stop at gamers, but is an unfortunate epidemic of entitlement that is spreading across the globe like a virus in all aspects of life.
It is a Beta and the purpose is to find bugs and fix them.They are doing us a favor by not wiping the chrs.It might be the reason for the cash shop since there wont be a wipe.They have to make money so since folks will keep what they buy it is good time to start getting a return on their investment.I think they have done a good job on fixing some of the problems.Give them a break.
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Try reading the OP again;
Beta is a testing phase of any game, which means charging for anything is absurd, unless the game is already stable and they are adding content on the fly... Not what's happening here, the guy you've replied to is right, I'm sorry...
so much for so little, the world has too many dumb people, but wth? That's how they make money!
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pressexpose1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
one could also ask that you stop blindly and willingly defending every single aspect of this process that some others find unacceptable simply because you have sunk a load of cash into it and feel the need to justify that to yourself on a daily basis.
Is complaining about maintenance worthwhile? No. Does it help some people vent their frustrations? Possibly. Is it your business? No.
is it worth someone's time to point out that having an emergency down 30 minutes after a scheduled and planned maintenance means that somebody clearly screwed up in either the writing or testing of the patch code or the implementation of said code? Probably not, but it's human nature to point and laugh when someone screws up.
Appointing yourself the moral arbiter of such matters is a much less worthwhile endeavour.
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
WRONG! I was offered free cake with spit on it. If I wanted cake without spit I had to pay.
So to enjoy it and to say THX for making cake I choose to pay to get cake WHICH is now delayed for no good reason other then really bad planning.
If you weren't so hungry for your cake, you'd take the time to consider the state of it before you gave your money for it.
Yes you would. Go check what PREORDER means.
RELEASED PRODUCT= END PRODUCT! Amazing you don’t know this and are commenting on mmo’s since both in the eyes of law and of every gamer which have followed the mmo’s at ANY point knows this
But you don't buy this product. You can't pre-order something that you voluntarily pay for and then complain about it not meeting your expectations.
Ok let me repeat “YOU DO NOT HAVE MAINT! UNLESS ITS CRITICAL ON A TIME WHERE YOU DIRECTLY BREAK PEOPLE’S PRIME TIME”
Why? Because sht goes wrong and when sht goes wrong you need to have an x hours to fix it, doing it in the middle of prime or high populated time will send your community in a “frenzy” and prevent people who should play from doing so.
There is No reason to do it there, wait till 3-4am and do it here where it statistically prevent as few people as possible from playing. You need to work anyway as the maint guys so do it at a time where its not as big of an issue for the community. Its not rocket science… its basic 101 to running any service.
You complain about a free game not being available when it suits you, as if its' meant to revolve around you. Pick one: Downtime to fix and improve things or an always-online service that never improves.
Comments
They have to pay for the hamsters someway
Destroy the enemy, just save some for me!
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
Basically we got a preborn baby with problems and needs doctored up.
I think your right I think that poster has never played a beta before. If he has I would love to hear which games were that awesome... because I have tested dozens and I have yet to see it.
Well I just started today. Normally before I buy into a game I will go look at the forums. Check the bug pages. Check the patch history to see how often they patch, and what they are making a priority. Read the general forums as it gives me a good idea as to how the community actually feels about the game, it's features, and how mature the community is as a whole.
Thanks for saving me some money. I appriciate it.
From your posts, "literally nothing" appears to be how much you've paid so far for this game. The level of entitlement amazes me.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
this is NOT an open beta.
if it was our purchase would be PREORDERS which means full refund would by law be possible becouse the product couldn't have been taken into use (and they refuse to refund which i already tried to get)
another thing is: the issue's right now is that the time they set the maint on is on prime times instead of setting it at night like 3am would be an odd time for both continents to play thereby hitting less people and DONT have maint on a holyday unless its absolutely critical which clearly it wasnt since it was planned, its dev 101.
we are... we are complaining but it doesnt really make any difference now does it -.-
when investing 200€ into a product you at the same time sign your sanity away trying to do whatever you can to believe you did a good investment in the product therefore we are less likely to call it out as a GIANT issue becouse we dont wanna acknowledge that we did a really bad choice and threw away 200€ but if we where given the choice right now, i doubt many would still do it and if we could get the rightfull refund we should be entitled too (given this is called "open beta"=not a finished product=preorder not used product=full refund is entitled) i doubt many people would still be founders...
my words for you is:
stop deluding yourself.. i know it sucks and i am kicking myself for throwing 200€ away on this ****, but look at the reality, we took a bad choice and we are punished for it by bad marketing(this is not just about maints, its about cash shop and the fact the 200€ you used will no where nearly cover what you need to access all features and enjoy the game ot its fullest)
/nyx
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
How much i payed on the other hand is a whole other subject.
Not to mention that for the people who did pay for this is going though the same as i did.
I payed nothing. I won't cuz i'm doing just fine. But i still got my rights to complain. It's F2P but still P2W
If there no complainer's we're how do you think a Mmorpg would turn out? It would end up like ****
Cuz the devs would think everything is allright even though it isn't.
People would slowly begin to pack up their gear and move to the next mmorpg. or Return to what'ever the played before Wow lotro
etc. I'm a big big fanboy of wow but i never ever in my life defended it like this. and worst of all this game just came out as in *Open Beta* even though they still a taking money. Which is no longer a Open beta but a initial release)
Betas get reset / a full game does not.
Simple as that. read before talking
His points are still valid. Once they start charging, they should provide satisfying service.
If they actually mean this is beta where things may go wrong, they should not start trying to profit.
Beta Junkie
No, they would not be pre-orders. Know why? Because there's no paid end-product.
They're doing them when they can. They decided to install the network hardware that had just arrived after the 7am maintenance. Reading forum stickies and the team's Twitter feed would tell you as much.
Wikipedia time; You're clearly outside of the majority of founders I mentioned in the OP.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
All the QQ aside I suggest you try the game out. You do not have to buy anything to play a F2P game.
Yes the game has a few issues however if you play the game as it was intended... doing quests etc. The game is very solid and honestly one of the more enjoyable games I have played in a LONG time. Here is a small list of things I personally like about the game.
1. All quests are voiced so this adds a lot of depth to the game element.
2. Quest story lines are well written and tie together very nicely... you look forward to the next quest to hear more about the story.
3. PvP while very limited is fun and engaging... though I do agree will probably get old after a few weeks with its current limited scenario.
4. Foundry while I have done very little with this allows for endless adventures... no other game in history allows this level of endless adventures. Now yes there are some gems and not so awesome adventures but as long as there are new Foundries created the potential for something new and engaging is always there.
5. Finally your classic dungeon runs... These start out very easy and slowly get harder and harder. The top level dungeons will challenge even the most seasoned players.
Now I am not saying the game doesn't have issues... far from it. However for long lasting fun and an engaging adventure this game is very solid. If you didn't at least try it you would be at a loss.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
I want bugs fixed and issues correct but wait, no - YOU CANT HAVE DOWN TIME
AMGAWD I HATE THIS GAME, i cant play !
Seriously kids - DO ONE
I respect and appreciated the work the PW guys are putting in, im hopeful once the major niggles are dealt with they will look at the zen pricing !?
I wouldn't complain if I were a kid. 2 houts without playing is no problem. I complain because I am not a kid and I arrived home from work at the exact time the maintenance started.
gg
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
So to enjoy it and to say THX for making cake I choose to pay to get cake WHICH is now delayed for no good reason other then really bad planning.
Yes you would. Go check what PREORDER means.
RELEASED PRODUCT= END PRODUCT you paid for(everything from there is simply updates to a released product) Amazing you don’t know this and are commenting on mmo’s since both in the eyes of law and of every gamer which have followed the mmo’s at ANY point knows this
Ok let me repeat “YOU DO NOT HAVE MAINT! UNLESS ITS CRITICAL ON A TIME WHERE YOU DIRECTLY BREAK PEOPLE’S PRIME TIME”
Why? Because sht goes wrong and when sht goes wrong you need to have an x hours to fix it, doing it in the middle of prime or high populated time will send your community in a “frenzy” and prevent people who should play from doing so.
There is No reason to do it there, wait till 3-4am and do it here where it statistically prevent as few people as possible from playing. You need to work anyway as the maint guys so do it at a time where its not as big of an issue for the community. Its not rocket science… its basic 101 to running any service.
Soo I am outside the majority because you say so?
but what can i expect from someone who doesn’t even know what a preorder is in an mmo -.-
You're using a product your don't own, nor have spent any money to even lease/use....but you think you have rights? Again, the level of entitlement is just amazing. Sadly this thought process doesn't stop at gamers, but is an unfortunate epidemic of entitlement that is spreading across the globe like a virus in all aspects of life.
Beta is a testing phase of any game, which means charging for anything is absurd, unless the game is already stable and they are adding content on the fly... Not what's happening here, the guy you've replied to is right, I'm sorry...
Is complaining about maintenance worthwhile? No. Does it help some people vent their frustrations? Possibly. Is it your business? No.
is it worth someone's time to point out that having an emergency down 30 minutes after a scheduled and planned maintenance means that somebody clearly screwed up in either the writing or testing of the patch code or the implementation of said code? Probably not, but it's human nature to point and laugh when someone screws up.
Appointing yourself the moral arbiter of such matters is a much less worthwhile endeavour.
But you don't buy this product. You can't pre-order something that you voluntarily pay for and then complain about it not meeting your expectations.
You complain about a free game not being available when it suits you, as if its' meant to revolve around you. Pick one: Downtime to fix and improve things or an always-online service that never improves.
Argumentum ad hominem, much?
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.