I don't wanna burst anyone's bubble, but the problem is a playerbase one, not a system one.
There are too many people who want the reward, and that's it.
The game is supposed to be enjoyable. Being better geared to make you more competitive can equate to more fun, but the people who just want the full PvP set just because... we could replace the game with a window where every time you click you get a flashing screen and the message 'Congratulations; for your epic performance you have received an Armoured Nightmare!'
It's outright rude to think it's fair to think your desire for a shiny purple outweighs 9 people's desire to just have some fun. The people who see 1 afker, give in, and go afk, are just as bad because that makes it the norm- it's now OK.
There's problems at the far end of the spectrum, too, though. The diehards who won't ever give in, flaming their team who are trying (rather than afking) but just aren't that good or can't compete with their opponents' gear. If they cop abuse 50% of the time when they DO put in effort... well you can understand them being unwilling to continue subjecting themselves to that.
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asmoday12321Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's outright rude to think it's fair to think your desire for a shiny purple outweighs 9 people's desire to just have some fun. The people who see 1 afker, give in, and go afk, are just as bad because that makes it the norm- it's now OK.
This is like saying to someone, "You are so selfish, you only care about your own wants! You should care about MINE instead!".
Premade players don't care about whether their PUG opponents have fun, neither do those who camp the spawn points. Everyone is in it for their own fun, regardless of what anyone else wants. If someone wants to get their PvP daily out of the way so they can get 4000 AD and buy an item they really like and enjoy, then that desire is no less valid than that of a premade player who just wants to "pwn" undergeared, uncoordinated people. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's only fun for one side.
I'll agree with afking being a problem when and if the matchmaking system matches premades and partial premades against each other, and when it attempts to assemble balanced teams (that is, not one side having two clerics and the other having none). So far, this is not the case.
In my opinion, if you are just doing the PvP for the daily, then just go in and get owned if necessary, collect your reward, then go about your business. If you are not interested in really winning the match, what does it matter if you get face rolled? Have fun with it.
First of all I suggest adding in a kick system that allows anyone in the party to start a vote kick (not just the party leader), for instances and PvP alike. If at least 3 or 4 players agree then the person is booted and leader can queue up for another member. A better kick system will not solve much, but it is mainly for the convenience.
I also suggest that Daily AD quest for PvP should not merely be participate in 1 or 2 domination matches to receive credit, but 'Win' that 1 or 2 matches. Reason for this is that it will stop players who afk in domination for dailies. Why? Usually, but not always, 1 afk = 4v5 and 5 is usually better than 4; especially in a match of capping and holding points where quantity 'may' be more advantageous than quality. Then what of those who afk to farm Glory points? I suggest Glory points should be awarded based on win/lose AND player score from kills/death/assist. I snatched this idea from Tera's PvP; battlegrounds. The concept of capping points is similar, so I believe this suggestion can be applied without much hassle.
Summarize
1) Let anyone in party start a vote kick but put a few minute cool down for each player so it can not be abused. (idea from Tera) e.g Lets say Player A vote kicks Player C. Player A can not vote kick for 5 minutes regardless of kick passing or not, but other players can still vote kick.
2)To decrease Daily afk: Make AD Dailies require wins rather than just participation. The only ones who will disagree are those who afk in domination. Regardless of your skills, there are always times where you win or lose as long as you play your part. e.g your godlike but your team is heavy = lost, you not so godlike but your team are elites = win. So all you afkers do not make an excuse like I am bad at PvP, so this change is not fair! Not convinced? AD Dailies for dungeon and foundry... do you get credit if you fail? Exactly! I win! Discussion closed. ;p
3)To decrease Glory afk: Make the amount of glory scale off of win/lost and score of player. e.g. from Tera, lost is 30-80 credits (30 and every 100 score that player has they get 1 credit more so anything over 5000 points only caps at max of 50 more credits; kills awarded most scores, then assist, and capping pyres also awarded some score but not too much where everyone is more concerned about capping rather than defending the caps), win is 80-130 points (similar explanation as above). With this change, huehuehue, those who afk will get minimum Glory points with no extra (assuming they lost and team did not carry him/her in a 4v5). Those who lost but contributed may still receive reward similar to those that won, but afk will get so little that it is not as meaningful to continue doing.
4) Also auto kick players idle for 30 sec (1 min, etc); again for convenience because it will not always work if they move around every so often. Just there for like a multi-layered filter for afkers.
So if all this implemented I would expect these Scenarios for AFKs
Scenario A- AFK >> 30 sec >> auto kicked
Scenario B- AFK >> move! avoided auto kick! haha so ezpz >> vote kicked
Scenario C- similar to above but had afking buddies so kick not passed >> no kills/assist? lost? minimal Glory points + no AD daily credits. Best outcome for them is 'hope' to get carried in 4v5? but then again if they hoping so much they might as well participate and try to contribute for the win! therefore AFK >> Active!
There is never a legit reason to just AFK in something you queued for. If you are put against a 5 man premade then you fight them and you learn how to better play. By playing people of same or less skill you yourself never grow in skill and knowledge.
As for talking about WoW there was auto systems inplace to stop people from AFKing. There are the reports from players that were actually looked at and people were simply banned for AFKing. You took a great risk in AFKing with your account unlike you do so here where people like yourself think that it is ok to do it if you cant win. Sorry, but that is a HAMSTER poor excuse. I have played WELL over hundreds of thousands of WoW BGs in my 7 years I played that game. I see more AFKing here than I ever did in WoW, or Tera, Or Rift,EQ, Aion and others.
The whole award glory based on personal score is how the system works now, and nothing will ever stop people from being dumb and fighting between points. They are there to get kills because they think thats what wins things. Removing the AD Daily reward system is a terrible idea, as it will stop people from even knowing there is PvP or even trying it and seeing that they actually like it.
There are many good ways to fix this problem actually.
So r u saying u played what 200 thousand bgs in 7 years. So 78 a day. You said hundreds of thousands so i picked 200 as a low figure maybe you played more...
Nice ideas but this is what will happen. U dont get glory except if you win. So if your team is losing due to a premade new player then people will votekick them to get a better player.
People will then create premades so pvp is owned by guildies on ts coordinating so most of the player base will not try or enjoy pvp.
Right now there are problems with healers missing out on glory due to lack of kills. People getting higher scores for final hits.
I agree afkers are annoying as hell but you change this and people will find a way to exploit it.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
2)To decrease Daily afk: Make AD Dailies require wins rather than just participation. The only ones who will disagree are those who afk in domination.
I disagree and I'm not an AFKer. For example out of the 6 matches I was in yesterday my team probably only one one. Two at best. "Forcing" people to keep playing when they don't want to isn't going to help.
I disagree and I'm not an AFKer. For example out of the 6 matches I was in yesterday my team probably only one one. Two at best. "Forcing" people to keep playing when they don't want to isn't going to help.
"reward me for losing in a competitive environment!"
"at least i tried"
"I had fun, and that's all that matters!"
People like you ruin sports/anything that is competitive in nature.
PVP is very fun, and very messed up. I wont talk about class balance cause everyone knows about TR and CW problems. But the AFKing with no penalty and quitters with no deserter debuff is idiotic. Last night I even discovered that as lead of my team, I can KICK everyone and then leave the group myself. Not sure how it affects the other teams honor, but when I am captain and I see one or more AFKers on my team that is what I do. Screw them man they aint getting any free glory.
If I am NOT captain and I am in with some loser AFKers, I just quit and immediately requeue as there is no penalty for doing so.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
"reward me for losing in a competitive environment!"
"at least i tried"
"I had fun, and that's all that matters!"
People like you ruin sports/anything that is competitive in nature.
How about you just get better at the game?
I am a firm believer in earning your way onto a team and all but that statement in this situation s just asinine. That would be the equivalent to telling pro sports players that they will not get payed for a game unless they win it. I don't care how good your individual skill is, if you are in a PUG against a well organized premade, you WILL lose.
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wasaguestMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
This is always a problem in games where PvP rewards gear that can be used in PvE. Outside of GM policing, there's really only a few things they can do to "fix" this.
Remove any and all PvP rewards that can be used in/for PvE.
Make the exact same rewards (look, stats and more) available in PvE gainable within the same time frame or less (since a no effort issue can get them the items in PvP and lazies will still go for the idle rewards vs actually playing and earning it).
I am a firm believer in earning your way onto a team and all but that statement in this situation s just asinine. That would be the equivalent to telling pro sports players that they will not get payed for a game unless they win it. I don't care how good your individual skill is, if you are in a PUG against a well organized premade, you WILL lose.
I hate this argument. What is stopping you from finding a pre-made to play in?
Forcing people to win to get their dailies is actually a good idea. You can win against better teams and you can win against premades, because it's DOMINION not TvT. I once had a team in which we got slaughtered really bad. I mean really, really bad. We won 1000-600, because we started focusing on caps more than fighting them. We actually avoided them as much as we could. I lost one out of 25 games so far and it was the first PvP I participated in. And we had an idler .
In order to ensure your PvP is actually enjoyable always:
1. Look for premades.
2. Find a guild.
3. Make sure you queue when you're near the top of your bracket (27-29, 37-39 etc.).
Forcing people to win to get their dailies is actually a good idea. You can win against better teams and you can win against premades, because it's DOMINION not TvT. I once had a team in which we got slaughtered really bad. I mean really, really bad. We won 1000-600, because we started focusing on caps more than fighting them. We actually avoided them as much as we could. I lost one out of 25 games so far and it was the first PvP I participated in. And we had an idler .
In order to ensure your PvP is actually enjoyable always:
1. Look for premades.
2. Find a guild.
3. Make sure you queue when you're near the top of your bracket (27-29, 37-39 etc.).
Then it's all fun!
Regards,
Kalantris
+1 good advice, although that will be too difficult for 90% of the trolls on these forums. They will find something to complain about, trust me.
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Almost every match I am in were the other team is AFK is from guild, 'Neverfun'
You have to love how creative Chinese Gold Farmers are....
I hate this argument. What is stopping you from finding a pre-made to play in?
I am all for people to find a guild/premade. In fact, I encourage it. I did for a short time on STO and had fun. That said, I am not a PvP player. I dabble. I may or may not do any PvP in this game. I personally don have the time to commit fully to a premade team. I have a job and a family that takes the majority of my time. That is why I dont find a premade. Your suggestion then essentially handicaps me and anyone like me that puts real life ahead of coding and pixels.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Anyway, AFKers are the biggest problem. Fix that first then evaluate whether or not further tweaking like removing rewards is the way to go. I am not sure why everyone wants to over complicate it. The rewards are there to get people playing. If you make it so that only 5% of the playerbase is bothering with PvP you're just hurting yourself as that's less people to play against.
I am all for people to find a guild/premade. In fact, I encourage it. I did for a short time on STO and had fun. That said, I am not a PvP player. I dabble. I may or may not do any PvP in this game. I personally don have the time to commit fully to a premade team. I have a job and a family that takes the majority of my time. That is why I dont find a premade. Your suggestion then essentially handicaps me and anyone like me that puts real life ahead of coding and pixels.
I'm in a guild that does pre-made PvP teams. Most of us have lives, wives, kids, etc... They don't ask you to put your life on the backburner to PvP. If 5 of us are on, and a few of us want to PvP, we do. If not, we don't, no biggie.
All i'm saying, these kids whine and complain about pre-mades as if they have some kind of special privilege that they aren't entitled to. NOTHING is stopping them from finding 4 friends and doign the same, excewpt the fact that they don't have 4 friends.
And if this was seriously to address AFKs, like I've been saying, join a pre-made. if you get matched up against AFK'ers, finish the game in 5 minutes, profitt, then re-queue
All i'm saying, these kids whine and complain about pre-mades as if they have some kind of special privilege that they aren't entitled to. NOTHING is stopping them from finding 4 friends and doign the same, excewpt the fact that they don't have 4 friends.
I agree with this. I would like see a system where there are two levels of PvP. Normal PvP where anyone can join via the queue. This would be geared towards casual players. Yes afkers would still be an issue. The second would be Elite. To be able to queue for an elite match, you would be required to be in a team of five. They could up the rewards for completion of Elite PvP to attract players.
All i'm saying, these kids whine and complain about pre-mades as if they have some kind of special privilege that they aren't entitled to. NOTHING is stopping them from finding 4 friends and doign the same, excewpt the fact that they don't have 4 friends.
Personally, I'm not whining about premades (I do wish I was a kid, though, instead of being old enough to have adult children!), I used to run them back in 2004-8 and I know all about how one justifies the fact that it ruins the game for others. It's almost always the "playing with friends" thing, a few personal attacks here and there, and the "you can do it too" line. Been there, done that, and it's very transparent. But anyway, I have no issue with people forming premades. If you want to win without rarely facing a challenge, joining a premade is the smart thing to do and I don't blame people for taking the easiest road, especially now where premade players flood the market with PvP gear and Glory for ADs.
What I do have an issue with is that the game matches premades and PUGs against each other. That is a technical/game design issue, however, and not a social one. I won't play against premades if I solo queue, for that reason. It works for me (gets me out of those games faster) and it works for the premades (maybe not as well, because it's one person less that contributes to your "woah, *presses print key*, I am so good at this game!" kill count at the end, but you get the reward faster at least). It doesn't work for the other PUG members on my team, but if enough people complain about the side effects of premade/PUG matchmaking, we might see some changes down the road. Whether those are good (from my perspective) or not, I don't know.
Who knows, maybe I will do the hypocritical thing and join a premade. Like I said, for me, this has nothing to with the players, only with the system.
What I do have an issue with is that the game matches premades and PUGs against each other. That is a technical/game design issue, however, and not a social one. I won't play against premades if I solo queue, for that reason.
So, you are admitting to being the person who AFKs in PvP games. Good job, you're cool.
You're one of those who gets his a$$ spanked in PvP, then says "Oh they are a pre-made, I'm afking, I don't want to be bullied!"
I dislike PvP in almost any video game. Just not my thing.
I only started this game two days ago, but if I can join a PvP match, do nothing and get AD out of it, why shouldn't I?
So you dont like to PvP. I dont either. So what is the problem with going out there and doing something.....anything. Afraid you'll he embarrassed when you get owned? What does it matter? You are sitting behind a computer in some undisclosed location and no one (or very few) really know who you are. Why be so afraid to "die" that, that you would rather do nothing?
The people who are using wow as an example must not have played much wow, If you AFK in a bg you get booted instantly. All this game needs to do is implement something like that. If you are in the spawn for more then 30 seconds you get booted.. simple.
Can I be cheeky and point out that this problem didn't exist during headstart?
Yes, it's an issue now, but short of removing the AD reward, there are no good fixes. You cannot force people to play. The leader of the group can kick people and request new players, but that requires an active player to have the crown. Vote kicking is just as easy to abuse because of the small team size, and an afk timer would make people suicide or just jump around a little. WoW has all of those things, and the result is absolutely not different.
My suggestions would be:
- Remove the AD daily rewards.
- Award Glory points based on the personal score (this may also help with fighting between nodes).
However, this probably won't happen. And besides, there are "legitimate" reasons to idle, e.g. when you are matched against a premade. I won't get bullied, so I will just wait it out.
Boot them out after 10 seconds of chillling in the spawn. Easy fix. SWTOR does it, RIFT does it, any other game does it.
Comments
There are too many people who want the reward, and that's it.
The game is supposed to be enjoyable. Being better geared to make you more competitive can equate to more fun, but the people who just want the full PvP set just because... we could replace the game with a window where every time you click you get a flashing screen and the message 'Congratulations; for your epic performance you have received an Armoured Nightmare!'
It's outright rude to think it's fair to think your desire for a shiny purple outweighs 9 people's desire to just have some fun. The people who see 1 afker, give in, and go afk, are just as bad because that makes it the norm- it's now OK.
There's problems at the far end of the spectrum, too, though. The diehards who won't ever give in, flaming their team who are trying (rather than afking) but just aren't that good or can't compete with their opponents' gear. If they cop abuse 50% of the time when they DO put in effort... well you can understand them being unwilling to continue subjecting themselves to that.
/facepalm
If only you would actually read, tho I guess that is asking too much.
This is like saying to someone, "You are so selfish, you only care about your own wants! You should care about MINE instead!".
Premade players don't care about whether their PUG opponents have fun, neither do those who camp the spawn points. Everyone is in it for their own fun, regardless of what anyone else wants. If someone wants to get their PvP daily out of the way so they can get 4000 AD and buy an item they really like and enjoy, then that desire is no less valid than that of a premade player who just wants to "pwn" undergeared, uncoordinated people. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's only fun for one side.
I'll agree with afking being a problem when and if the matchmaking system matches premades and partial premades against each other, and when it attempts to assemble balanced teams (that is, not one side having two clerics and the other having none). So far, this is not the case.
I also suggest that Daily AD quest for PvP should not merely be participate in 1 or 2 domination matches to receive credit, but 'Win' that 1 or 2 matches. Reason for this is that it will stop players who afk in domination for dailies. Why? Usually, but not always, 1 afk = 4v5 and 5 is usually better than 4; especially in a match of capping and holding points where quantity 'may' be more advantageous than quality. Then what of those who afk to farm Glory points? I suggest Glory points should be awarded based on win/lose AND player score from kills/death/assist. I snatched this idea from Tera's PvP; battlegrounds. The concept of capping points is similar, so I believe this suggestion can be applied without much hassle.
Summarize
1) Let anyone in party start a vote kick but put a few minute cool down for each player so it can not be abused. (idea from Tera) e.g Lets say Player A vote kicks Player C. Player A can not vote kick for 5 minutes regardless of kick passing or not, but other players can still vote kick.
2)To decrease Daily afk: Make AD Dailies require wins rather than just participation. The only ones who will disagree are those who afk in domination. Regardless of your skills, there are always times where you win or lose as long as you play your part. e.g your godlike but your team is heavy = lost, you not so godlike but your team are elites = win. So all you afkers do not make an excuse like I am bad at PvP, so this change is not fair! Not convinced? AD Dailies for dungeon and foundry... do you get credit if you fail? Exactly! I win! Discussion closed. ;p
3)To decrease Glory afk: Make the amount of glory scale off of win/lost and score of player. e.g. from Tera, lost is 30-80 credits (30 and every 100 score that player has they get 1 credit more so anything over 5000 points only caps at max of 50 more credits; kills awarded most scores, then assist, and capping pyres also awarded some score but not too much where everyone is more concerned about capping rather than defending the caps), win is 80-130 points (similar explanation as above). With this change, huehuehue, those who afk will get minimum Glory points with no extra (assuming they lost and team did not carry him/her in a 4v5). Those who lost but contributed may still receive reward similar to those that won, but afk will get so little that it is not as meaningful to continue doing.
4) Also auto kick players idle for 30 sec (1 min, etc); again for convenience because it will not always work if they move around every so often. Just there for like a multi-layered filter for afkers.
So if all this implemented I would expect these Scenarios for AFKs
Scenario A- AFK >> 30 sec >> auto kicked
Scenario B- AFK >> move! avoided auto kick! haha so ezpz >> vote kicked
Scenario C- similar to above but had afking buddies so kick not passed >> no kills/assist? lost? minimal Glory points + no AD daily credits. Best outcome for them is 'hope' to get carried in 4v5? but then again if they hoping so much they might as well participate and try to contribute for the win! therefore AFK >> Active!
So r u saying u played what 200 thousand bgs in 7 years. So 78 a day. You said hundreds of thousands so i picked 200 as a low figure maybe you played more...
R u sure your not overexagerating a touch
Nice ideas but this is what will happen. U dont get glory except if you win. So if your team is losing due to a premade new player then people will votekick them to get a better player.
People will then create premades so pvp is owned by guildies on ts coordinating so most of the player base will not try or enjoy pvp.
Right now there are problems with healers missing out on glory due to lack of kills. People getting higher scores for final hits.
I agree afkers are annoying as hell but you change this and people will find a way to exploit it.
I disagree and I'm not an AFKer. For example out of the 6 matches I was in yesterday my team probably only one one. Two at best. "Forcing" people to keep playing when they don't want to isn't going to help.
"reward me for losing in a competitive environment!"
"at least i tried"
"I had fun, and that's all that matters!"
People like you ruin sports/anything that is competitive in nature.
How about you just get better at the game?
If I am NOT captain and I am in with some loser AFKers, I just quit and immediately requeue as there is no penalty for doing so.
How about you don't worry about what I am doing.
not everyone loses 75% of their PvP matches, so some might think rewarding the winners is a good idea.
I am a firm believer in earning your way onto a team and all but that statement in this situation s just asinine. That would be the equivalent to telling pro sports players that they will not get payed for a game unless they win it. I don't care how good your individual skill is, if you are in a PUG against a well organized premade, you WILL lose.
Remove any and all PvP rewards that can be used in/for PvE.
Make the exact same rewards (look, stats and more) available in PvE gainable within the same time frame or less (since a no effort issue can get them the items in PvP and lazies will still go for the idle rewards vs actually playing and earning it).
I hate this argument. What is stopping you from finding a pre-made to play in?
In order to ensure your PvP is actually enjoyable always:
1. Look for premades.
2. Find a guild.
3. Make sure you queue when you're near the top of your bracket (27-29, 37-39 etc.).
Then it's all fun!
Regards,
Kalantris
+1 good advice, although that will be too difficult for 90% of the trolls on these forums. They will find something to complain about, trust me.
You have to love how creative Chinese Gold Farmers are....
I am all for people to find a guild/premade. In fact, I encourage it. I did for a short time on STO and had fun. That said, I am not a PvP player. I dabble. I may or may not do any PvP in this game. I personally don have the time to commit fully to a premade team. I have a job and a family that takes the majority of my time. That is why I dont find a premade. Your suggestion then essentially handicaps me and anyone like me that puts real life ahead of coding and pixels.
Why is that.. Because it invalidates yours?
Anyway, AFKers are the biggest problem. Fix that first then evaluate whether or not further tweaking like removing rewards is the way to go. I am not sure why everyone wants to over complicate it. The rewards are there to get people playing. If you make it so that only 5% of the playerbase is bothering with PvP you're just hurting yourself as that's less people to play against.
I'm in a guild that does pre-made PvP teams. Most of us have lives, wives, kids, etc... They don't ask you to put your life on the backburner to PvP. If 5 of us are on, and a few of us want to PvP, we do. If not, we don't, no biggie.
All i'm saying, these kids whine and complain about pre-mades as if they have some kind of special privilege that they aren't entitled to. NOTHING is stopping them from finding 4 friends and doign the same, excewpt the fact that they don't have 4 friends.
And if this was seriously to address AFKs, like I've been saying, join a pre-made. if you get matched up against AFK'ers, finish the game in 5 minutes, profitt, then re-queue
I agree with this. I would like see a system where there are two levels of PvP. Normal PvP where anyone can join via the queue. This would be geared towards casual players. Yes afkers would still be an issue. The second would be Elite. To be able to queue for an elite match, you would be required to be in a team of five. They could up the rewards for completion of Elite PvP to attract players.
Personally, I'm not whining about premades (I do wish I was a kid, though, instead of being old enough to have adult children!), I used to run them back in 2004-8 and I know all about how one justifies the fact that it ruins the game for others. It's almost always the "playing with friends" thing, a few personal attacks here and there, and the "you can do it too" line. Been there, done that, and it's very transparent. But anyway, I have no issue with people forming premades. If you want to win without rarely facing a challenge, joining a premade is the smart thing to do and I don't blame people for taking the easiest road, especially now where premade players flood the market with PvP gear and Glory for ADs.
What I do have an issue with is that the game matches premades and PUGs against each other. That is a technical/game design issue, however, and not a social one. I won't play against premades if I solo queue, for that reason. It works for me (gets me out of those games faster) and it works for the premades (maybe not as well, because it's one person less that contributes to your "woah, *presses print key*, I am so good at this game!" kill count at the end, but you get the reward faster at least). It doesn't work for the other PUG members on my team, but if enough people complain about the side effects of premade/PUG matchmaking, we might see some changes down the road. Whether those are good (from my perspective) or not, I don't know.
Who knows, maybe I will do the hypocritical thing and join a premade.
I only started this game two days ago, but if I can join a PvP match, do nothing and get AD out of it, why shouldn't I?
So, you are admitting to being the person who AFKs in PvP games. Good job, you're cool.
You're one of those who gets his a$$ spanked in PvP, then says "Oh they are a pre-made, I'm afking, I don't want to be bullied!"
oh well, the bads need to come from somewhere
So you dont like to PvP. I dont either. So what is the problem with going out there and doing something.....anything. Afraid you'll he embarrassed when you get owned? What does it matter? You are sitting behind a computer in some undisclosed location and no one (or very few) really know who you are. Why be so afraid to "die" that, that you would rather do nothing?
Boot them out after 10 seconds of chillling in the spawn. Easy fix. SWTOR does it, RIFT does it, any other game does it.